Frost dragons have a new attack (gf bots for a week or two)

[Assume Nothing]

I expected you to justify your opinion, instead of posting without any kind of support to your seemingly ridiculous claims.

[ImDustinHoffmanIRL]

I expected you to justify your opinion, instead of posting without any kind of support to your seemingly ridiculous claims.

 

I think your claim that captchas are much more of a hassle than lifting an evil twin with a crane and popping a balloon three times is ridiculous.

 

Jagex would be able to make captchas that bots couldn't solve. Captchas have evolved since the 90's you know.

[Assume Nothing]

I don't quite see how capcha's can be unsolvable - could you please explain? Furthermore - what about those with visual impairment, or colour-blindness? It's not a magical solution, bots will most certainly be able to solve it in near future should it ever be implemented, and it only hinders legitimate gameplay.

 

As I've said before - the entire point of combating bots would be to improve gameplay - capcha's can only have a negative effect on gameplay. I highly doubt this would work - fatigue was removed for a reason.

[Octarine]

Given that the capcha is sufficiently advanced (which you would hope Jagex would try to get the best they could) then computers have a very hard time solving these. Like its been stated, capchas have advanced as the programs for attempting to solve them have advanced, which is one of the best things about the system.

 

As it stands now, most bots solve random events faster than players, making the events basically worthless. GOOD capchas would force the makers of bots to use some human input to solve them (services that solve capchas etc) which would likely take LONGER to get solved than an average player, and the account could be flagged. Of course, you cannot condemn a person based on just their capcha solve time, some people may be quite slow at them (I know myself I take a while - usually down to wondering if they are actually words) but its one more tool in order to paint a picture.

 

Other upsides, solving a capcha is faster for the average player than the majority of random events (aside form like sandwich lady/cert guy), I'm struggling to see how this would be an inconvenience.

 

EDIT: As for RWT bots vs player bots, it may not be as high as 95% RWT bots, but they're definitely the higher percentage AND the most harmful to legitimate players down to raw material costs, account recoveries, website hacks that are all in the name of money)

 

Also this seems to be getting kinda Offtopic..

[stonewall337]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I honestly wonder if these anti-capcha people are secretly scared botters. No. Bots can not solve capchas, that's the entire point of a capcha. (Advanced scanning software can crack some, but these are mostly children working with javascript. They will not crack an externally fed capcha in runescape.)

 

And no, it's not a lot of effort for a legit player, the above i can excuse due to ignorance, but this point is rediculous. It takes 2-3 seconds to enter a capcha, maybe 3 attempts at most if you're dealt a hard to read one. A random event usually lasts over a minute. HOW ON EARTH is a capcha more inconvenient than the useless randoms we have now?

 

Sorry this got off topic, but you guys really need to be more subtle with your bot defending.

 

By the way, the orb's damage is a direct 100% recoil of your potential attack, but instead of taking your actual attack, you roll 2 dice for the attack. First one being your actual attack, second being the recoil. So you can possibly roll a 500 and hit the dragon, and then roll a 0 and take no recoil. Or the reverse.

 

I don't think it's that they're secretly botting. It's just that the same damn thing has been tried and it didn't work. Or do you not remember what RSC was like with sleeping bags and fatigue?

 

Right. Now, I can't say I've read the rest of this post, since I read the word "javascript" and immediately knew you weren't talking about anything related to RuneScape. Sorry, old programmer's habits.

[Blyaunte]

It was interesting to note, last night -- while I was doing a nech's task in the slayer tower -- that the nech bots now seem to follow more of a pattern that they ever did before. It used to be that they attached a specific "spot" within a certain range -- monster spawns and boom, they all swarmed it.

 

But now they have a definite pattern in which they roam all around each of the spawn zones within the room and, if the monster spawns and is open, they attack it.

 

It's relatively easy to stand near one specific re-spawn spot and monopolize one nech for yourself, but forget about trying for a faster rate of attack, because with this roaming pattern, they will beat you to the nech available nech every time.

 

<_<

[Cheefoo]

I honestly wonder if these anti-capcha people are secretly scared botters. No. Bots can not solve capchas, that's the entire point of a capcha. (Advanced scanning software can crack some, but these are mostly children working with javascript. They will not crack an externally fed capcha in runescape.)

 

And no, it's not a lot of effort for a legit player, the above i can excuse due to ignorance, but this point is rediculous. It takes 2-3 seconds to enter a capcha, maybe 3 attempts at most if you're dealt a hard to read one. A random event usually lasts over a minute. HOW ON EARTH is a capcha more inconvenient than the useless randoms we have now?

 

Sorry this got off topic, but you guys really need to be more subtle with your bot defending.

 

By the way, the orb's damage is a direct 100% recoil of your potential attack, but instead of taking your actual attack, you roll 2 dice for the attack. First one being your actual attack, second being the recoil. So you can possibly roll a 500 and hit the dragon, and then roll a 0 and take no recoil. Or the reverse.

 

I don't think it's that they're secretly botting. It's just that the same damn thing has been tried and it didn't work. Or do you not remember what RSC was like with sleeping bags and fatigue?

 

Right. Now, I can't say I've read the rest of this post, since I read the word "javascript" and immediately knew you weren't talking about anything related to RuneScape. Sorry, old programmer's habits.

 

That's because the old captchas in RSC were crap. Captchas have been upgraded since then. Why do you think they use them on so many websites? Surely they must do something.

[Sir_Squab]

Personally - I would have preferred it if they had introduced a variant in the setting in that area, that would capture bots and make them stand still -- then have someone there to scoop the bots as they failed to pass the variant. Then ban the bots.

 

<_<

Banning bots is a lost cause. Some people really need to realise that (to be quite honest i'm shocked that people havent already).

Ban a bot, 2 more are created tomorrow and ready for action within a week.

 

The only (realistic) option Jagex has (aside from assigning people to popular bot-hotspots all over the game and resetting them as they pass. This would however be a waste of manpower) is to do what they have done to Frosts. Make it harder/less profitable for bots while not causing any trouble for legit players. Yes, Frosts might not have changed much (or will be back to normal within a few days) but it's a start, and it shows potential. It's innovative thinking for sure. Give some time and they'll be able to learn from their mistakes and improve. I'm not seeing RS botfree for a long time to come, but bots might become less of an issue and less damaging to the economy in the near future, which is exciting.

 

Imho, the reason it's a lost cause is because Jagex doesn't perm-ban mains. Yes, ban one bot and two more take it's place. Ban one frost dragon bot, two more LEVEL 3 bots take it's place. See where I'm coming from? That's why in the old days, it was mainly boring skilling - you know, WC, mining, fishing, hunting that was botted. Because the highest investment in a bot is like, idk, 65 hunting or 60 fishing in order to start making gold? The biggest RS gp monetary investment was like 20-30k for a rune pic/axe.

 

I mean, the masses of level 3s just destroying yew trees were never pretty, but it's better to limit bots to skilling-money making then to skilling-money making AND camping monsters for drops.

 

I'm all for the frost dragon nerf, but why on earth did the multiply the amount of dragons by 10? The only thing from keeping an infinite amoutn of bones coming into the game was that the game physically couldn't spawn enough dragons for the bots to kill. (Yeah...) but now it can! Bone prices will probably be at an all time low after the bots are perfected (Seems like they're close already) and the bots will make much more money thanks to not having competition.

 

Nice attempt jagex, i love that you're trying, but for the love of god, do not add MORE dragons into the game if the only thing holding back bots was the fact they're too crowded.

 

I've never said this before, but I've often wondered if instanced Frost Dragons would help solve the problem. Yes, I realize that bots would bot even more at frosts and drag the price even further down, but the fact that you could kill them without direct competition makes them far easier for regular players to kill. Kinda like barrows - more plalyers at barrows brings the price of barrow items down, but they don't have a real impact on the actual gameplay of running barrow chests. Of course, it's hard to say because if the profit goes down too much it stops being worth it for many players.

[HunterDexter]

Is it actually impossible to encrypt the runescript data that gets send to our computers while playing RuneScape? :s If botters are unable to read ingame ID's etc, botting would take a huge hit, but thee's probably a flaw in my theory. :s

[Cheefoo]

Is it actually impossible to encrypt the runescript data that gets send to our computers while playing RuneScape? :s If botters are unable to read ingame ID's etc, botting would take a huge hit, but thee's probably a flaw in my theory. :s

 

Or perhaps Jagex could just randomly shift around the IDs of items randomly every few days?

[Blyaunte]

Okay - how about something along the lines of my "plague" idea?

 

Commonly botted locations ("botting hot spots") like Frost Giants, Sorceress' Garden et al shall hereinafter cause a a player to contract a plague that will require the player to undertake certain (random) tasks?

 

"You got the plague - speak to "X" about getting cured" -- hell it could even be like a Treasure Trail type thing.

 

Otherwise they lose stats and eventually die within a certain amount of game time?

 

Once dead they're removed from the game.

 

/bots

[999134]

until bots figure out how to get around your idea... which they will

 

+ would annoy real players much more than a capcha, which would be more effective anyway

[Sona]

Commonly botted locations ("botting hot spots") like Frost Giants, Sorceress' Garden et al shall hereinafter cause a a player to contract a plague that will require the player to undertake certain (random) tasks?

 

"You got the plague - speak to "X" about getting cured" -- hell it could even be like a Treasure Trail type thing.

 

Otherwise – they lose stats and eventually die within a certain amount of game time?

 

Once dead they're removed from the game.

 

/bots

 

Sometimes I'm not sure if your suggestions are serious. I don't think risk of perma-character death is going to be well received by any MMO community, and Runescape never really advertised itself as a "hardcore" type of game. To run something like this would be business suicide.

[Assume Nothing]

Is it actually impossible to encrypt the runescript data that gets send to our computers while playing RuneScape? :s If botters are unable to read ingame ID's etc, botting would take a huge hit, but thee's probably a flaw in my theory. :s

 

Or perhaps Jagex could just randomly shift around the IDs of items randomly every few days?

 

They already do that - it takes about 30 minutes for a BCEL Injector to 'fix' the issue.

[Riptide Mage]

I honestly wonder if these anti-capcha people are secretly scared botters. No. Bots can not solve capchas, that's the entire point of a capcha. (Advanced scanning software can crack some, but these are mostly children working with javascript. They will not crack an externally fed capcha in runescape.)

 

Seems like I have to point this out once a week, but even if a computer can't solve a captcha, you can outsource the solving.

 

http://www.deathbycaptcha.com

An incredible low price of $1.39 for 1000 solved CAPTCHAs.

 

http://decaptcher.com

The price is $2 for 1000 CAPTCHAs.

 

Considering most bots cost around $10-15 dollars most bot users would easily pay $2 to instantly skip every captcha they receive for weeks. Assuming 1 captcha every hour and the bot active 24/7 it would cost $2 to cover 41 days.

 

 

 

Okay - how about something along the lines of my "plague" idea?

 

Commonly botted locations ("botting hot spots") like Frost Giants, Sorceress' Garden et al shall hereinafter cause a a player to contract a plague that will require the player to undertake certain (random) tasks?

 

"You got the plague - speak to "X" about getting cured" -- hell it could even be like a Treasure Trail type thing.

 

Otherwise – they lose stats and eventually die within a certain amount of game time?

 

Once dead they're removed from the game.

 

/bots

Bots do slayer and bots do treasure trails, so why would this stop them in any way?

[VonMedo]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

 

What's so hard to understand? All those green dragon bots,turoth bots,wc bots,sorc garden bots,they are all for RWT they aren't someones main account. You think that they can sell hundreds of thousands worth of RSGP with one bot? They make thousand of them and make them farm same thing and then you don't make 100k/h you make 100M/h.

 

I never claimed my numbers are correct,but RWT bots make majority of bots and that's for sure,even if they somehow don't I would still vote for free trade removal,because RWT bots made economy what it is today.

 

And captchas are very annoying,I wouldn't want to see that in game

[Assume Nothing]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

 

What's so hard to understand? All those green dragon bots,turoth bots,wc bots,sorc garden bots,they are all for RWT they aren't someones main account. You think that they can sell hundreds of thousands worth of RSGP with one bot? They make thousand of them and make them farm same thing and then you don't make 100k/h you make 100M/h.

 

I never claimed my numbers are correct,but RWT bots make majority of bots and that's for sure,even if they somehow don't I would still vote for free trade removal,because RWT bots made economy what it is today.

 

And captchas are very annoying,I wouldn't want to see that in game

 

That's not the point - it was simply to say that the figure you posted seemed highly unlikely and thus is likely to have been a fictitious figure. Hyperbole, or any other form of rhetoric, is considered a weakness in argument.

[VonMedo]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

 

What's so hard to understand? All those green dragon bots,turoth bots,wc bots,sorc garden bots,they are all for RWT they aren't someones main account. You think that they can sell hundreds of thousands worth of RSGP with one bot? They make thousand of them and make them farm same thing and then you don't make 100k/h you make 100M/h.

 

I never claimed my numbers are correct,but RWT bots make majority of bots and that's for sure,even if they somehow don't I would still vote for free trade removal,because RWT bots made economy what it is today.

 

And captchas are very annoying,I wouldn't want to see that in game

 

That's not the point - it was simply to say that the figure you posted seemed highly unlikely and thus is likely to have been a fictitious figure. Hyperbole, or any other form of rhetoric, is considered a weakness in argument.

 

Ok,how much RWT bots do you think are out there?

[Assume Nothing]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

 

What's so hard to understand? All those green dragon bots,turoth bots,wc bots,sorc garden bots,they are all for RWT they aren't someones main account. You think that they can sell hundreds of thousands worth of RSGP with one bot? They make thousand of them and make them farm same thing and then you don't make 100k/h you make 100M/h.

 

I never claimed my numbers are correct,but RWT bots make majority of bots and that's for sure,even if they somehow don't I would still vote for free trade removal,because RWT bots made economy what it is today.

 

And captchas are very annoying,I wouldn't want to see that in game

 

That's not the point - it was simply to say that the figure you posted seemed highly unlikely and thus is likely to have been a fictitious figure. Hyperbole, or any other form of rhetoric, is considered a weakness in argument.

 

Ok,what number were you thinking about?

 

I wouldn't give a precise figure, because I just don't know. The chances are that the f2p bots are likely to be a more significant figure, and the types of bots used by RWTers and lazy people would be quite different. If I were to guess, I'd say f2p bots occupy at least 2/3 of all bots, as previously cheap membership pins are no longer available.

[Sinkhan]

I honestly wonder if these anti-capcha people are secretly scared botters. No. Bots can not solve capchas, that's the entire point of a capcha. (Advanced scanning software can crack some, but these are mostly children working with javascript. They will not crack an externally fed capcha in runescape.)

 

Seems like I have to point this out once a week, but even if a computer can't solve a captcha, you can outsource the solving.

 

http://www.deathbycaptcha.com

An incredible low price of $1.39 for 1000 solved CAPTCHAs.

 

http://decaptcher.com

The price is $2 for 1000 CAPTCHAs.

 

Considering most bots cost around $10-15 dollars most bot users would easily pay $2 to instantly skip every captcha they receive for weeks. Assuming 1 captcha every hour and the bot active 24/7 it would cost $2 to cover 41 days.

 

Bots do slayer and bots do treasure trails, so why would this stop them in any way?

 

The problem with outsourcing here is that I think it would be somewhat cumbersome to implement as RS is a Java application, not just a simple form.

 

That is of course not to say that it wouldn't be impossible. I don't really know how current bots work, but a person paid for a bot could just have it running and whenever a captcha comes up, a remote desktop connection could be opened up for these outsourced captchas, solved, and then the connection closed immediately there after.

 

I guess I also failed to really think about how most randoms are in essence captchas. Sure not in the traditional sense that you have to type in words or whatever, but trying to match or identify rotating objects is basically the same idea. Although I'm sure bots have also been made to circumvent them, it's actually interesting from a programming aspect how they manage to do it. Not my area of expertise, but interesting nonetheless.

 

In the end by its very nature, RS is always going to be botted in one form or another in high numbers. The game's attraction is primarily based on doing the same task over and over and unless you can change the game fundamentally and still keep customers, bots are here to stay.

[VonMedo]

RWT bots make 95% of bots,with removal of free trade they would be gone! Other 5% is nothing,idc if someone bots his hunter to 99,I care if economy is ruined and I can't make money

95% ? Sure of that? Proof?

 

What's so hard to understand? All those green dragon bots,turoth bots,wc bots,sorc garden bots,they are all for RWT they aren't someones main account. You think that they can sell hundreds of thousands worth of RSGP with one bot? They make thousand of them and make them farm same thing and then you don't make 100k/h you make 100M/h.

 

I never claimed my numbers are correct,but RWT bots make majority of bots and that's for sure,even if they somehow don't I would still vote for free trade removal,because RWT bots made economy what it is today.

 

And captchas are very annoying,I wouldn't want to see that in game

 

That's not the point - it was simply to say that the figure you posted seemed highly unlikely and thus is likely to have been a fictitious figure. Hyperbole, or any other form of rhetoric, is considered a weakness in argument.

 

Ok,what number were you thinking about?

 

I wouldn't give a precise figure, because I just don't know. The chances are that the f2p bots are likely to be a more significant figure, and the types of bots used by RWTers and lazy people would be quite different. If I were to guess, I'd say f2p bots occupy at least 2/3 of all bots, as previously cheap membership pins are no longer available.

 

I had a few friends that tried to bot in F2P,they all got banned in a few weeks,but a P2P buddy is still going strong and that's with using same script (woodcutting)

idk if that was on purpose by jagex or what but I think that they ban F2P a lot more than P2P

 

about membership,some sites are selling them for 7m rsgp so botters can make rl money w/o investing any in game (except script)

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I honestly wonder if these anti-capcha people are secretly scared botters. No. Bots can not solve capchas, that's the entire point of a capcha. (Advanced scanning software can crack some, but these are mostly children working with javascript. They will not crack an externally fed capcha in runescape.)

 

And no, it's not a lot of effort for a legit player, the above i can excuse due to ignorance, but this point is rediculous. It takes 2-3 seconds to enter a capcha, maybe 3 attempts at most if you're dealt a hard to read one. A random event usually lasts over a minute. HOW ON EARTH is a capcha more inconvenient than the useless randoms we have now?

 

Sorry this got off topic, but you guys really need to be more subtle with your bot defending.

 

By the way, the orb's damage is a direct 100% recoil of your potential attack, but instead of taking your actual attack, you roll 2 dice for the attack. First one being your actual attack, second being the recoil. So you can possibly roll a 500 and hit the dragon, and then roll a 0 and take no recoil. Or the reverse.

 

I don't think it's that they're secretly botting. It's just that the same damn thing has been tried and it didn't work. Or do you not remember what RSC was like with sleeping bags and fatigue?

 

Right. Now, I can't say I've read the rest of this post, since I read the word "javascript" and immediately knew you weren't talking about anything related to RuneScape. Sorry, old programmer's habits.

 

That's because the old captchas in RSC were crap. Captchas have been upgraded since then. Why do you think they use them on so many websites? Surely they must do something.

 

Nope. They're not that hard to defeat, as another poster already pointed out.

 

The problem with outsourcing here is that I think it would be somewhat cumbersome to implement as RS is a Java application, not just a simple form.

 

Java can digest web content, as well as receive it.

 

So truthfully, defeating CAPTCHA can be done. Hopefully someone can come up with something that doesn't involve making tweaks to an already broken platform to fix the problems.

[Excels]

I believe CAPTCHAs were defeated in RSC not via machine vision, but via a distributed system. The idea was that a small proportion of botters would be solving captchas at any given moment.

 

It would be interesting to see how effective that would be today.

[HappyNooblet]

Frost dragons have a new attack,

Bots are no longer at frosts,

I get to go to frosts for another week or two,

Gf me for another week or two,

4 deaths so far.