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Frost dragons have a new attack (gf bots for a week or two)


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Now there is no reason to go kill them because they have become stronger. Might as well go and Kill Nex , Corporeal or other bosses.

 

A bit of hyperbole, don't you think?

Not even. I made more at Nex in a week than I would at frosts in a month, with way less of a headache and competition.

 

Let me try this again. It is hyperbole. I'm not currently a member and haven't tried out the new frosts, but let's just assume that you can only get 60 kills per hour now. Let's assume that the price of frost dragon bones also rise to ~17K. That's close to 1M gp/hour. For most people, that is quite possibly the fastest gp/hour they'd be getting unless, as someone else pointed out, you have maxed stats, overloads and a buttload of expensive gear to do Nex. Unless you've got a modest amount of luck, you'd probably make more money from frosts than Corp. At least, you'd make it more consistently barring an Ely/Divine drop.

 

So what bosses does that leave which provide an equal or greater profit? Bandos, which is probably the easiest and fastest money make in GWD outside of Nex? I don't do Bandos, but I don't think you make ~1M per hour profit consistently there. DK's? Maybe. The KQ? Nope. The KBD? Nope. The CE? Nope. Revenants? Nope. I can't quite believe that they have been made so bad that there is no reason to kill them in favor of other monsters.

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Just tried it earlier. The bone piles appear to randomly spawn in different areas. I couldn't telegrab them, though I've heard reports of others being able to.

 

The thing is, bones are a consumable good. So long as the demand doesn't go down they'll remain profitable for players. What Jagex may have anticipated is the supply of frost dragon bones going down, driving the prices up and resulting in the same gold/hour. What they may not anticipate is that if they made it too difficult to obtain prices will not be driven up due to lack of adequate demand, resulting in a net loss for players overall.

 

Bots are well, functionally timeless. They do not suffer from biological constraints. The long term effects can only be seen in the future.

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Just tried it earlier. The bone piles appear to randomly spawn in different areas. I couldn't telegrab them, though I've heard reports of others being able to.

 

The thing is, bones are a consumable good. So long as the demand doesn't go down they'll remain profitable for players. What Jagex may have anticipated is the supply of frost dragon bones going down, driving the prices up and resulting in the same gold/hour. What they may not anticipate is that if they made it too difficult to obtain prices will not be driven up due to lack of adequate demand, resulting in a net loss for players overall.

 

Bots are well, functionally timeless. They do not suffer from biological constraints. The long term effects can only be seen in the future.

 

If the bots can't do frost dragons, they'll move to other dragons. The price of normal dragon bones and frost dragon bones are closely tied, so its hard to speculate exactly what will happen.

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Noxxx, frosts have changed a LOT. You can no longer afk in your void/handcannon while the cannon lures dragons - you will die inside a minute. The kill rate has been reduced a lot as well. Overall, they have become both less efficient to do, as well as requiring farm more attention. While I'm a fan of things that require attention, frosts were never meant to be a high-attention thing (or at least, they were never considered that).

Yes, i agree wit what you say. But that is also why i said that they will learn from their mistakes. What i mean by "frosts might not have changed a lot" i meant in terms of being bottable. Jagex will need to find a balance somewhere, and it's going to take a few attempts to get it right.

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Do the bones just randomly spawn? Or is there an animation? Anything to explain them? Does an item drop with them?

Perhaps off-topic as to the issue itself, but it would've been neat if they added out-of-reach Frost Dragons to fight eachother, which caused the bones appearing. I guess the problem then would've been explaining why the old ones didn't/wouldn't/don't, though...

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I guess JaGex doesn't quite realize what the problem was. It wasn't that the monsters weren't tough enough, or complex enough. It's simply because the very design of the combat system is mundane, and there's plenty of incentive to buy/bot one's way to success.

 

These types of updates will only have an impact on legitimate players - a counterproductive measure, like trying to borrow your way out of a recession.

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Would just like to notify people who don't know, I checked popular botting websites (Naughty me :o) and they had the bots back up and running flawlessly within 12 hours.

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Let me try this again. It is hyperbole. I'm not currently a member and haven't tried out the new frosts, but let's just assume that you can only get 60 kills per hour now. Let's assume that the price of frost dragon bones also rise to ~17K. That's close to 1M gp/hour. For most people, that is quite possibly the fastest gp/hour they'd be getting unless, as someone else pointed out, you have maxed stats, overloads and a buttload of expensive gear to do Nex. Unless you've got a modest amount of luck, you'd probably make more money from frosts than Corp. At least, you'd make it more consistently barring an Ely/Divine drop.

 

So what bosses does that leave which provide an equal or greater profit? Bandos, which is probably the easiest and fastest money make in GWD outside of Nex? I don't do Bandos, but I don't think you make ~1M per hour profit consistently there. DK's? Maybe. The KQ? Nope. The KBD? Nope. The CE? Nope. Revenants? Nope. I can't quite believe that they have been made so bad that there is no reason to kill them in favor of other monsters.

1M per hour? I heard from a friend that used bots at Green dragons and managed nearly 1M per hour. And what's the point of 85 Dungeoneering if the dragon gives only 1M per hour? I went for 85 Dungeoneering because Frost dragons were like Green dragons. Easy and profitable. Now they have been made a bit worse for the sake of tackling bots. And we all know bots will easily return. Might as well go back to Green dragons with better tactic since Frosts have become more troublesome to deal with.

 

I did little Frost dragons killing but i prefered to do them than bosses because it was consistent and fairly easy. If they become a bit harder then what's the point lol.

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As a side-note - I was on w71 yesterday evening and I noticed that there were only a handful of bots were in Varrock gathering ess. Not sure if they did some kind of bot busting there or what happened.

 

On the one hand, I was delighted to see that so few bots were there -- on the other hand, I have to wonder if all this recent "bot-busting" isn't merely just so much bread and circuses?

 

:unsure:

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I googled for Frost Dragon bots to see how they reacted. This is a post from the developer of one of the bots, completely unedited. If posting this is against the rules (my interpretion of the rules is that it isn't; if a moderator disagrees, feel free to delete).

 

First let me begin by letting you all know what changes Jagex made to the frost dragon cave today in order to stop botters. I have to admit' date=' they did a good job and did make a lot of changes. Thankfully, they can never stop botting, this just made it harder to kill the dragons, however this is offset by a number of factors.

 

1. The frost dragon cave is now dynamic. What this means is that each time you enter the cave you will be teleported to a random cave. As far as I've been able to tell there are now over 10 different caves! (No more crowded worlds!) What this also means is you are now more safe from bot hunting teams. they now have to look through each possible dynamic location to find you

 

2. Frost dragon IDs changed, every dragon now has a different id from what it had before.

 

3. Random bone spawns. In the cave bones are now spawned in inaccessible locations of the cave. Normally bots would get stuck running towards them trying to get them. My bot is a bit smarter though and won't fall for this.

 

4. The annoying blue orb. Attacking a dragon will now cause an blue orb to spawn around them. This is the most annoying update and will hinder your profits slightly. The orb hits hard, very hard. The only way to fend off it is to walk away from the dragon and wait for the orb to disappear, attacking a dragon will cause large amounts of damage.

 

5. The entire cave's orientation and slight layout changes were made. Previously you had a north and south sub section of the cave, this is now an east and west subsection.

 

 

BEFORE I CONTINUE <-- READ THIS!

This entire system is very much experimental. Due to the HUGE number of changes I had to make I could not test everything, and asking of me to do so is ridiculous. Bugs will exist, and they will be patched as I can do them. The entire system itself is also in need of some upgrading, which will come once [forbidden site'] adds some new hooks I need into the client to allow me to know what kind of prayer to use. I will be out all day tomorrow (Tues Oct 18) so any and all bugs will be fixed starting Wednesday. Before anyone [bleep]es about bugs, let me get this straight. I was the first and currently the only person to have a functioning FDK script so quickly after this update. Any whiners should understand I won't care, and posting about it will rather slow me down as I think up ways to insult you publically. /rant

 

Changes made:

 

- Orb detection!

--> The bot will look for and detect orbs around your dragon. Should it find one it wiill walk a random disance away from the dragon and wait for the orb to disappear before attacking the dragon again

--> Advanced methods used to walk away from the dragon, with randomized distances and quick detection of the orb disappearing or appearing

 

- Auto-retaliate is now forced to be off at all times

- Area checks have been updated when in the cave to allow for detection of the dynamic caves

- Fixed an issue with teleporting when not using a cannon and when out of food

- Looting is now only done inside generated polygon areas

--> Bone traps wont work because of this!

--> The bot's cannon system has been adapted to this

- The custom cannon spot feature is temporarily disabled

- When teleporting out of the cave the cannon is first picked up to avoid a trip to Nulodian

--> The sole exception to this will be when low on health and with no food left as death is better to avoid than a trip to get a cannon!

 

Cannon Support Changes

- The order of choosing a best spot when some are equal is randomized now

- The entire system had to be HEAVILY modified in order to allow for the new dynamic changes to the cave to work

- I have implemented a very complicated system to be able to detect and generate a brand new area that will allow the bot to use the previous system

- Reimplemented the custom cannon spot feature

 

- Untested ranged support with the new system

--> The bot will need to now move to the dragon since auto-retaliate is now off all the time

--> It will move away again after attacking

--> Should the orb appear, the bot will click on its current location instead of moving away again, just like a human would!

 

Not sure whether this is true or not, but judging from the replies to the thread it does work.

 

[....]

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Lol I'm glad I didn't kill frost dragons before, because the inconvenience and lowered kill rate would make me not want to kill them...

 

I'm all for the other changes they made like the random bone spawns, but I am never okay with updates that slow bots at the expense of real players (and they said this was not the case).

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Sorry Jagex, you've already lost this arm race. Fighting it with more development time and resources, and radically inconveniencing normal users does not solve the problem; it only radically increases it.

 

Well, I'd like to say that they're finally doing something. But truthfully, they're up to the same old crap that won't work. They can't win this anymore.

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Inconvenient - that's the word.

They took away Free Trade and Wilderness. It made the game incovenient for legit players. They brought Free Trade and Wilderness back.

 

 

IN FUTURE 1

They do same for bots

 

IN FUTURE 2

They restore what they did in Future 1.

 

 

Seems like same stuff all over dont'cha think?

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[spoiler=HUGE post]

I googled for Frost Dragon bots to see how they reacted. This is a post from the developer of one of the bots, completely unedited. If posting this is against the rules (my interpretion of the rules is that it isn't; if a moderator disagrees, feel free to delete).

 

First let me begin by letting you all know what changes Jagex made to the frost dragon cave today in order to stop botters. I have to admit' date=' they did a good job and did make a lot of changes. Thankfully, they can never stop botting, this just made it harder to kill the dragons, however this is offset by a number of factors.

 

1. The frost dragon cave is now dynamic. What this means is that each time you enter the cave you will be teleported to a random cave. As far as I've been able to tell there are now over 10 different caves! (No more crowded worlds!) What this also means is you are now more safe from bot hunting teams. they now have to look through each possible dynamic location to find you

 

2. Frost dragon IDs changed, every dragon now has a different id from what it had before.

 

3. Random bone spawns. In the cave bones are now spawned in inaccessible locations of the cave. Normally bots would get stuck running towards them trying to get them. My bot is a bit smarter though and won't fall for this.

 

4. The annoying blue orb. Attacking a dragon will now cause an blue orb to spawn around them. This is the most annoying update and will hinder your profits slightly. The orb hits hard, very hard. The only way to fend off it is to walk away from the dragon and wait for the orb to disappear, attacking a dragon will cause large amounts of damage.

 

5. The entire cave's orientation and slight layout changes were made. Previously you had a north and south sub section of the cave, this is now an east and west subsection.

 

 

BEFORE I CONTINUE <-- READ THIS!

This entire system is very much experimental. Due to the HUGE number of changes I had to make I could not test everything, and asking of me to do so is ridiculous. Bugs will exist, and they will be patched as I can do them. The entire system itself is also in need of some upgrading, which will come once [forbidden site'] adds some new hooks I need into the client to allow me to know what kind of prayer to use. I will be out all day tomorrow (Tues Oct 18) so any and all bugs will be fixed starting Wednesday. Before anyone [bleep]es about bugs, let me get this straight. I was the first and currently the only person to have a functioning FDK script so quickly after this update. Any whiners should understand I won't care, and posting about it will rather slow me down as I think up ways to insult you publically. /rant

 

Changes made:

 

- Orb detection!

--> The bot will look for and detect orbs around your dragon. Should it find one it wiill walk a random disance away from the dragon and wait for the orb to disappear before attacking the dragon again

--> Advanced methods used to walk away from the dragon, with randomized distances and quick detection of the orb disappearing or appearing

 

- Auto-retaliate is now forced to be off at all times

- Area checks have been updated when in the cave to allow for detection of the dynamic caves

- Fixed an issue with teleporting when not using a cannon and when out of food

- Looting is now only done inside generated polygon areas

--> Bone traps wont work because of this!

--> The bot's cannon system has been adapted to this

- The custom cannon spot feature is temporarily disabled

- When teleporting out of the cave the cannon is first picked up to avoid a trip to Nulodian

--> The sole exception to this will be when low on health and with no food left as death is better to avoid than a trip to get a cannon!

 

Cannon Support Changes

- The order of choosing a best spot when some are equal is randomized now

- The entire system had to be HEAVILY modified in order to allow for the new dynamic changes to the cave to work

- I have implemented a very complicated system to be able to detect and generate a brand new area that will allow the bot to use the previous system

- Reimplemented the custom cannon spot feature

 

- Untested ranged support with the new system

--> The bot will need to now move to the dragon since auto-retaliate is now off all the time

--> It will move away again after attacking

--> Should the orb appear, the bot will click on its current location instead of moving away again, just like a human would!

 

Not sure whether this is true or not, but judging from the replies to the thread it does work.

 

[....]

 

 

Heh, a technical solution is, as I have said so many times, not the answer...

 

And voila...

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Jagex can't fix this problem anymore IMO. It is too easy to bot, and too easy to bypass jagex's system.

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At least they're making efforts outside of the standard, and apparently ineffectual, bot detection system and player reporting. I'm not saying that the changes to Frost Dragons were the right thing to do, but it's certainly better than the apparent lack of progress and secrecy of the last few months.

 

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At least they're making efforts outside of the standard, and apparently ineffectual, bot detection system and player reporting. I'm not saying that the changes to Frost Dragons were the right thing to do, but it's certainly better than the apparent lack of progress and secrecy of the last few months.

That is true. But the same old attitude where they made the game incovenient for legit players because of RWT seems to still be there.

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At least they're making efforts outside of the standard, and apparently ineffectual, bot detection system and player reporting. I'm not saying that the changes to Frost Dragons were the right thing to do, but it's certainly better than the apparent lack of progress and secrecy of the last few months.

That is true. But the same old attitude where they made the game incovenient for legit players because of RWT seems to still be there.

 

RWT itself is inconvenient for legit players.

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RWT itself is inconvenient for legit players.

It's hard for me to find RWT inconvenient to the degree that it's troublesome. With that said i don't think you can speak for everyone when you say that RWT is inconvenient for legit players. Quite honestly if it wasn't for the rule against RWT i am positive Jagex would have sold items, game currency and such themself.

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RWT itself is inconvenient for legit players.

It's hard for me to find RWT inconvenient to the degree that it's troublesome. With that said i don't think you can speak for everyone when you say that RWT is inconvenient for legit players. Quite honestly if it wasn't for the rule against RWT i am positive Jagex would have sold items, game currency and such themself.

 

RWT brings boters who sell their boted gold.

Bots = Inconvenience.

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It doesn't matter whether this update made killing Frost dragons more inconvenient.

They were so swarmed with bots that it wasn't even doable to kill them anyway.

 

Either:

- Don't change mechanics and have them swarmed with bots - making it nigh-impossible for a legit kill. Result: You are not going to kill any frosts.

- Make the mechanics much harder to the point that you stop bothering. Result: You are not going to kill any frosts.

 

Seriously, out of ALL the [bleep]ING I heard in this thread, who of you actually spent a reasonable amount of time in the Asgarnian resource dungeon the past month or so (quick hour fresh after update doesn't count). I can assure you this won't be more than 3 people. It's so typical, so RSOF, to whine about content you don't even do to the point that it's absolutely tiring. I came here 5 years ago because it was different from RSOF; more intelligent and interesting discussions. I don't feel that any more. I just find people complaining about everything, clearly playing a game that they claim to not like, developed by people they hate and played by peers that are, by proxy, dumb and ignorant.

I quit a while back and came back in September wondering just why I quit in the first place. Now I remember. It's not the bots, it's not the lack of content. It's a userbase that insists on cynisism and pessimism and feels that this has to be shared at any appropiate moment. It's basically just a more eloquent RSOF.

 

And it's just so tiring.

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