The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Sylpheed]

I don't know if this has been asked already and Jagex have already explained; but why don't they just add the option on regular weapons to change then to off-hand and vice versa? So instead of going out and having to specifically create off-hand items, you can just just right-click a regular version and wield it in the off-hand (or wield-X in the case of thrown ammo)? I mean sure for items like whips which we are graphically limited to only having one in the on-hand it wouldn't work, but any other reasons why not?

 

They stated the reason why they didn't want to just give every weapon an off-hand equip option was so they could make seperate off-hand versions and add them as new drops to existing monsters and give players the chance to smith some new items and make money from them.

 

To me, it just seems like they are artificially inflating the amount of equipment in-game, especially when you consider you now have to get (assumedly) 400k Dg tokens to get two different versions of the same weapon.

 

Edit: Platinum beat me to it.

[michel555555]

how does doomcore compare to celestial staff in eoc?

[Saradomin_Mage]

how does doomcore compare to celestial staff in eoc?

Used to be a 1h staff, no longer though so it's no good versus ccs.

 

@Demoli your 2h crossbow at level 80 is a royal crossbow :P

 

[Sir_Squab]

CCS gives unlimited elemental runes in EoC. And in EoC you only NEED elemental runes to cast spells. So unless Doomcore ALSO gives unlimited elemental runes, CCS is way better.

[Blutters]

However, this is only assuming momentum on maximum dps loadouts, so no shields. If you go active, Bows are much beter for chaining abilities, for you can activate abilities the second your carachter pulls the string for auto damage+ability damage+effect for the full damage of the bow. If i'm not mistaken, with Dual Wield, only the main weapon damage counts, so not only are abilities weaker, you also loose on off-hand special attacks. I wish there was a 2-handed Javelin or something. Same thing for otehr styles really, I wish there was a 2H'd STAB and Slash weapon for lv 80, aswell as a 2H'r Crossbow at 80. Also, make Halberds crush, so you can have 2h'd crush, stab and Slash in each set (halberd, spear, 2h). In general, dual wielding is much less DPS than 2H'ers due to not chaining abilities aswell, but you don't have as much overkill loss. With momentum, DPS is usually the same assuming same style and tier.

Just felt the need to add that last I checked, the obsidian maul is equal to D2H/Halberd/Spear, with crush. Obsidian weapons are old, yes, but perhaps they'll release more mauls to fill in the gaps.

 

There's actually a huge amount of predefined weapons for them to make now. 1h/off-hand/2h very fast/fast/average stab/slash/crush/thrown/arrow/bolt at tiers 10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80 for just melee/ranged... Not really sure how magic weapons differ from one another lol. I suppose they could release staves that help with specific elements. These could all be neatly arranged in a table..

[Urza285]

I remember early on in the beta release, maybe mentioned in one of the videos, a the reason for not letting us wield any weapon in any hand. I believe they stated it was too much effort for such a small thing so they created offhand weapons. I think that was somewhere in the video where they stated Excalibur would be made the abyssal whips designated offhand.

[Omali]

I remember early on in the beta release, maybe mentioned in one of the videos, a the reason for not letting us wield any weapon in any hand. I believe they stated it was too much effort for such a small thing so they created offhand weapons. I think that was somewhere in the video where they stated Excalibur would be made the abyssal whips designated offhand.

 

I can understand that. The way that RuneScape's system works is that each item is tied to its own animation set. I imagine allowing items to be equipped in other arms would require extensive changes to the way characters animate and to the item system itself.

[Demoli]

how does doomcore compare to celestial staff in eoc?

Used to be a 1h staff, no longer though so it's no good versus ccs.

 

@Demoli your 2h crossbow at level 80 is a royal crossbow :P

 

D'Oh, thats right, i completely forgot. I even bought one when they were 10m for the beta and since i only recently got Iron Titans and Overloads i completely forgot >.<

[Urza285]

2h crossbow really worth it?

[Demoli]

Unless you are going with momentum, it's totally worth it to get a 2h'er of everything, since you can stack abilities with autos without loosing damage potential.

 

Heck, I think I won't get Off hands of the Melee stuff, jsut Getting ZS GS and Maul thats how well 2h sinergises with Abilities. The only task where i think momentum is better then ablity input is Ice Strywyrms, and onyl because of the insane damage boost fire spells have.

 

Bosses are best with a 2H or a Shield too.

 

Edit: The more i think about it, Dual Wielding seems like a wet dream of live game combat, since it provides VERY little incentive to use on the EoC. Everyone (including me) went into EoC expecting to Double Rapier everything, realised Dual Wielding sucks with abilities/Double Rapier isn't effective at all against 80% of monsters, and gave up on it. Simultaneously, Shields and 2H'ers got a massive, ridiculous buff, and are now the choices for anyhing really.

 

I will only use Dual Wielding when there isn't a 2H in the same style in the same tier (like I was doing with Dual CCBs until Saradomin_Mage reminded me of Royal Xbow)

[Miss Lioness]

Unless you are going with momentum, it's totally worth it to get a 2h'er of everything, since you can stack abilities with autos without loosing damage potential.

 

Heck, I think I won't get Off hands of the Melee stuff, jsut Getting ZS GS and Maul thats how well 2h sinergises with Abilities. The only task where i think momentum is better then ablity input is Ice Strywyrms, and onyl because of the insane damage boost fire spells have.

 

Bosses are best with a 2H or a Shield too.

 

Edit: The more i think about it, Dual Wielding seems like a wet dream of live game combat, since it provides VERY little incentive to use on the EoC. Everyone (including me) went into EoC expecting to Double Rapier everything, realised Dual Wielding sucks with abilities/Double Rapier isn't effective at all against 80% of monsters, and gave up on it. Simultaneously, Shields and 2H'ers got a massive, ridiculous buff, and are now the choices for anyhing really.

 

I will only use Dual Wielding when there isn't a 2H in the same style in the same tier (like I was doing with Dual CCBs until Saradomin_Mage reminded me of Royal Xbow)

 

So back to the classic style if you know what I mean =D.

[chenw]

Unless you are going with momentum, it's totally worth it to get a 2h'er of everything, since you can stack abilities with autos without loosing damage potential.

 

Heck, I think I won't get Off hands of the Melee stuff, jsut Getting ZS GS and Maul thats how well 2h sinergises with Abilities. The only task where i think momentum is better then ablity input is Ice Strywyrms, and onyl because of the insane damage boost fire spells have.

 

Bosses are best with a 2H or a Shield too.

 

Edit: The more i think about it, Dual Wielding seems like a wet dream of live game combat, since it provides VERY little incentive to use on the EoC. Everyone (including me) went into EoC expecting to Double Rapier everything, realised Dual Wielding sucks with abilities/Double Rapier isn't effective at all against 80% of monsters, and gave up on it. Simultaneously, Shields and 2H'ers got a massive, ridiculous buff, and are now the choices for anyhing really.

 

I will only use Dual Wielding when there isn't a 2H in the same style in the same tier (like I was doing with Dual CCBs until Saradomin_Mage reminded me of Royal Xbow)

 

I beg to differ on your view on that one. Ranged 2h, I agree, there is not an awful lot of 1h choices, and none of them are particularly easy to get either, so 2h are easy.

 

However, 2h Magic, from my testing, is nowhere near as efficient as Wand/Orb or even Wand/Shield, because you get no damage bonus (as far as I am aware) from your staff, only your accuracy, at a massive cost to speed (2.4s Vs. 3.6s), so unless the extra accuracy bonus increases your chance hit to hit significantly, I think Wand/Anything combo is better than Staff.

 

Dual wield Melee has the impression of sucking probably because a lot of skills on the skills page do their damage based on their MH weapon ONLY, where one should be using as many DW only melee skills to get the most out of DW, since those are the only skills that do damage from both weapons. Some might not have realised it and just simply used any skill they can see, which is why it seems to do less damage than 2h's. 2h certainly have more skills to choose from (1h and 2h skills are equally good for them), but DW is in no way inferior.

[MotherBrainII]

However, 2h Magic, from my testing, is nowhere near as efficient as Wand/Orb or even Wand/Shield, because you get no damage bonus (as far as I am aware) from your staff, only your accuracy, at a massive cost to speed (2.4s Vs. 3.6s), so unless the extra accuracy bonus increases your chance hit to hit significantly, I think Wand/Anything combo is better than Staff.

 

Magic is meant to be twice as fast with dual wielding but half damage (75% per spell for DW, 150% for 2h). Virtus wand/book currently has 2 more accuracy than polypore (which, stupidly, is superior to the chaotic staff in every way), but otherwise, using a staff is advisable. I think the best DPS currently is still Storm of Armadyl with the ABS (which give that spell a 10% damage boost), but only marginally. Finally, staffs let you use free runes, and the ABS in particular is pretty good for that.

 

I think the preferred way of killing Corp will be to have one person in ranged armour tanking Corp's attacks/stunning the Dark Core (I hope it can still be stunned, because it's pretty much invincible otherwise) and the others maging it. Void in particular offers a 30% accuracy boost, which is colossal and contrary to what jagex said seems to work with abilities.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Evolution of Combat: Economic Impact

 

With the Evolution of Combat will, inevitably, come change in the economy. It’s a natural result of the re-alignment of all of the armour, weapons and food within the game. As you learn new ability combinations, ready your action bars for different combat situations and get to grips with the new combat stats, it’s inevitable that the RuneScape economy will change alongside it. We want to assure you that we'll be keeping a close eye on the RuneScape economy, and to give you some tips as to how it's likely to change post-20th November.

 

Keep on 'Scaping!

 

First and foremost, don’t panic! The economy is often the subject of rumours and hearsay, meaning that many people make decisions that are a little hasty. The vast majority of tradeable armour and weapons that you currently have are going to still be your equipment of choice in the Evolution of Combat. Got a full set of Bandos armour from General Graardor? That’s still the best non-degrading melee armour that you can get your hands on, and - with the new Bandos warshield - you can use some of those nifty new defensive abilities to be even tougher and last longer on Slayer trips.

 

On the flipside, items that you might not have thought about for a little while now have new life breathed into them. With the launch, the Zaryte Bow will become the best bow in it's class, and will be comparable to all other level 80 Ranged weapons. Korasi’s Sword may no longer be a one-hit-KO wonder, but it's a fantastic complement to the new off-hand Enhanced Excalibur. Mage armours such as Infinity and the brand new Batwing now provide decent protection in against melee combatants. Don’t forget the underused warhammers and two-handers; with dual wielding, two-handed abilities and weaknesses to specific damage types, they are now just as useful as scimitars in the right situation.

 

Lots of New Items!

 

With the Evolution of Combat comes a whole host of new armours and weapons. For every player-producible one-handed weapon in the game there will now be a player-producible version for the off hand, and that opens up a whole new market within the RuneScape economy. Along with that, there’s likely to be a greater demand for the raw materials needed to make these new items, which is certainly worth looking out for if resource gathering is your thing.

 

This also means that some of the existing monsters that you know and love will drop new materials for making the new armour. For example, imps around the world will drop imphide, which will make some of the first pieces of mage equipment, providing a low-level player a new way of making some money.

 

Food, Glorious Food!

 

Not only have weapons and armour been given a makeover, but food has changed too. It’s now more efficient to eat food that’s around your Constitution level. This means that while you can still eat rocktails if you’re a lower level, they won't heal you any more than food at your level would. Munching on salmon, anchovy pizza or chocolate cake - depending on your levels - will likely become cost-effective choices for those of you with the right levels. This should see a rise in the demand of the lower levelled foods and an opportunity for entrepreneurs or skillers to reap the rewards of their aquatic bounty.

 

The economy is going to change over the coming weeks but the financial future's only looking brighter. What was good before Evolution of Combat is still going to be good when Evolution of Combat has launched; items not popular will have their purpose restored and there'll be a ton of opportunities for skillers and everyone else to make plenty money out of the upcoming changes.

[muggiwhplar]

Are wave spells still stronger than surge spells or did they fix that?

[Leon S]

Are wave spells still stronger than surge spells or did they fix that?

 

No, they fixed that a while ago.

[TDC]

items not popular will have their purpose restored.

 

Lets hope my claws will still have some sort of use.

[Thus]

items not popular will have their purpose restored.

 

Lets hope my claws will still have some sort of use.

 

Doubt it, and we will probably start using one weapon type after about 2 months.

 

Hopefully I can sell each claw separately when EoC drops.

[Demoli]

After some testing against bossing, slauyer monsters and some dueling, here's qhat I've gathered:

 

Dual Wielding sucks on everything thats not melee. There's barely any abilities in the range book for dualwields, there's none in the Magic book and they deny you of a shield or 2H weapon. Melee has a decent amount of dual wield abilities, related to 2 ability books instead of one, and while they are good, they are mostly combo attacks, which take a loong time, in which you can't do any other action.

 

2H, like I said before, are the ebst options for pure DPS, witht he only exception being Slash and Stab, since dual rapiers and dual CLS are better than ZS or GS, and Sagaies because there aren't any 2H javelins for now (they should make Sagaies lv 80 and make it 2H to be honest, it would also boost the fletcher's market). Chaotic Staff is useless for now. Popypore has the exact same stats, is buyable and cheap, and provides not only the unique spell, but also a prayer bonus.

 

Shields are essential in fighting qbd. Also, bring a melee top and a maul, since the spirits she summons are RESISTENT to bolts/ranged, which is her weakness, while they are weak to Crush. The fight will take ages, and you will use a lot of prayer potions, overloads and anti fires. Use your defensive abilties carefull, i personally used the ultimate rejuvenation, the shield ability that heals you and the other ability that reduces teh coldown of one of these, don't remember which. Most of my healing was from Rejuvetaion. You CANNOT DEFLECT/ABSORB NON-CLASSED attacks. This includes the light bridges, the dragonfire, both wall and normal variant and the shade attacks, Glacor area attacks are also in thsi category, and so is volatile glacyte. I think this is a bug, since the ability page says "All Damage". Boss fights take way more skill just in general, msot of the will giver you a working, specially without a shield.

 

There still are a couple of broken items. I'd love to have a Polypore situation with the Crystal and Zaryte bows, where if you don't have ammo equipped you'd use the degradeable arrows, while if you have any arrows equipped (like the bane arrows) you'd use those. It just makes too much sense since Popypore already does it.

 

Wish list for beta:

 

Do not nerf barrows, instead, either raise defensive/lp stat of GWD armour by raising it to lv75 again, or give it the same stats, but with a sizeable crit bonus, instantly making it better. Apply these crit bonus to Nex gear too so they don't become a worse option at pure DPS.

 

New Findings: Crystal Shield is the lv70 Magic Shield; Godbooks are godaweful (no pun intended), they are offhand weapons with a crit bonus on different classes, but they are completely borked. Zamorak gives 0.8% boost to all stats, but armadyl gives it to only Range.. at 0.6%. They should makes Zamorak, Bandos and Armadyl Class secific at like 1.2%, and the other 3 at varying degress of hybriding, or just alternating 0.8% in 2 styles (zaros magic and melee, saradomin magic and range, guthix melee and ranged for example.)

 

I really can't wait, I think i'm gona get Chaotic Maul and Eagle eye enxt, that way i have at least tier 70 or above on all styles. So hype right now.

[Blutters]

I don't think there is a good solution for GWD equipment... They don't wanna just give the strength/damage bonuses back. Simplifying armor was kind of the point to begin with, and if they give damage bonuses to what is essentially mid-level armor they'll have to give them to anything they release higher than that.

 

It's just me, but I really wish they'd allow Dragon and other exclusive equipment to be upgraded to be much higher level, with the upgrade components coming from appropriately high level activities.

[3tarluap]

Was posted recently that ovl was getting a boost in eoc. Anything yet on what ovl will now be like?

[Noxx]

I just have a question. I've done done much "research" on this myself and i am purely going off what i've seen on videos or read here and there. To my knowledge the Chaotic Staff and Polypore Staff have the exact same stats except that Polypore has a +5 Prayer. Is this correct?

If so, why would something like a Chaotic Weapon now become second best?

Has there been any mention that this will be adjusted?

[Demoli]

Probably to give slayer some top tier gear. It isn't exactly fair for all Top Tier weapons and shields to be exclusive to Dungeoneering rewards now is it?

[Saradomin_Mage]

They mentioned plans to reduce Polypore to a tier 75 item, though nothing was done about that.

[Alg]

They mentioned plans to reduce Polypore to a tier 75 item, though nothing was done about that.

Would giving the chaotic staff infinite runes like its dungeoneering counterpart be too game breaking?