20-Nov-2012 - Evolution of Combat: Now Live!

[muggiwhplar]

changed it back

[Stakerer]

Could someone be so kind and answer some questions I have ?

 

First of all, I played back in 06 and before that, I have logged in a few times later, but not much.

1. How are the combat and constitution levels now calculated ?
   
2. I am F2P currently and my staker stats are 70 att 64 str and 56 def - in the past I could kill lesser demons easily, but now it is pretty hard and it takes a lot of time, why ?
   
3. The combats of monsters has changed also. Did they get more HP or what ?
   

That's about it now.

Thank you!

[wormy]

#2: Lessers are currently weak to bolts; when you attack/target one if you look at the "combat" tab you can see weaknesses. What this means in a board sense is anything but range will have a hard time killing it. Also they are now level 100ish, so they became stronger.

 

#3: Lots more hp, it is not uncommon for a scimitar to hit in the 400's which is ~2x previous hits.

[aerendil]

Right. Just tried dks trio.... what I can tell you

Rex:weak to fire spells

supreme:weak to stab

prime:weak to arrows

 

dks are WAY harder now, far worse than gwd.... The agro range is (bleeped) up, as you can now be attacked anywhere in the arena by any of them, and they do not focus on anyone, so you cant lure rex off other people.

 

I stopped reading your semi-rant at this point because this assumption is wrong.

 

There is a constitution ability specifically designed to draw monster attention to its user to allow a specific player in a monster hunting team to act as the tank.

 

The purpose of my post was not to rant(well maybe, they've butchered my favorite boss, however inefficient it used to be), but to tell people what to expect. The aim was to help people out in preparing for these bosses. There are no guides/tips that I have seen for the reworked bosses, so I wanted to shed some light on dks.

[Squakus]

There is a constitution ability specifically designed to draw monster attention to its user to allow a specific player in a monster hunting team to act as the tank.

Except that's not at all what he's talking about. He even had an answer to your point in there- they hit hard enough that the tank wouldn't stand a chance. It's not even an assumption, that's actual testing right there.

 

It might be possible to trio, with one person dedicated to killing each DK. Then each would use incite on the king he is strong against, while relying on the others to keep the other two off him.

 

It would mean DKs would have to be trioed, unless there is some hybrid/all class armor with enough defense to reduce the damage taken to normal levels.

 

(I personally feel it is wrong that people can camp at a boss for hours on end without having to resupply, so when I say reasonable levels of damage I mean resupplying every 15-30 kill cycles [in this case 3 kings per cycle]. Of course, I may be wrong, seeing as I have never DKed, so if I'm wrong please disregard this opinion about trip length.)

[Aiel]

(I personally feel it is wrong that people can camp at a boss for hours on end without having to resupply, so when I say reasonable levels of damage I mean resupplying every 15-30 kill cycles [in this case 3 kings per cycle]. Of course, I may be wrong, seeing as I have never DKed, so if I'm wrong please disregard this opinion about trip length.)

the problem is that changing this without changing drops etc. just creates dead content, as DKs will no doubt now become.

[Demoli]

DK's will only become Dead content when they stop dropping the best rings in the game, specially for people with MA's upgrades to jeweled rings. If they become harder to kill to the point less people will kill them, ring prices will Rise, which will provide higher incentive for people to kill them. Dead content is when there's nothing to gain/ too little to bother.

 

And Jagex messed up the Crystal shield. After hours on Glacors, my shield hasnt degraded a single stage, so they either raised the damage to degrade to very high ammounts or it doesnt degrade at all. Untill I've seent the contrary, I'll belieev it doesnt degrade at all give the use I've been giving it.

[aerendil]

yep, dks are now dead content... but tbh jagex really needs to do a massive rework of every boss in the game.... otherwise a lotttttttt of stuff will be dead content(implying it wasnt already but hey)

[aerendil]

also, no armour seems to be degrading at, been using goliaths/nex gear for hours and no degrading :D

[Alg]

also, no armour seems to be degrading at, been using goliaths/nex gear for hours and no degrading :D

My Barrows stuff still degrades. :sad:

[Sy_Accursed]

also, no armour seems to be degrading at, been using goliaths/nex gear for hours and no degrading :D

 

Ssshhhh don't post it, this is one bug we kinda don't want them to fix.

 

Disclaimer:

Bug abuse is bad and you shouldn't do it to gain advantages, but in this instance it is kinda impossible to avoid if you happen to have items it effects.

[Cheefoo]

I thought dominion tower gloves not degrading was intended. I sure hope it is. The bonuses they give are rather small over other gloves, and I think if they degrade they wouldn't be a very enticing reward anymore. Unless they buff their passive, because all it seems to be doing now is "reflecting" a few single digit damage points back at attackers. It's awful.

[Blutters]

Does Torag's really drain adrenaline now? Did Karil's or any other set effects change? Do Karil's or Ahrim's set effects work with their new dual wields?

[Alg]

I thought dominion tower gloves not degrading was intended. I sure hope it is. The bonuses they give are rather small over other gloves, and I think if they degrade they wouldn't be a very enticing reward anymore. Unless they buff their passive, because all it seems to be doing now is "reflecting" a few single digit damage points back at attackers. It's awful.

That's what their new ability is? I was wondering about that... Seems very weak.

[muggiwhplar]

Is Nex easier or harder now? Can you kill her w/o top-tier gear?

[Aiel]

DK's will only become Dead content when they stop dropping the best rings in the game, specially for people with MA's upgrades to jeweled rings. If they become harder to kill to the point less people will kill them, ring prices will Rise, which will provide higher incentive for people to kill them. Dead content is when there's nothing to gain/ too little to bother.

there's enough rings in game (it's been a common drop for years) and it's rare for rings to be removed from game, so it doesn't really matter how many rings are coming in.

 

Is Nex easier or harder now? Can you kill her w/o top-tier gear?

I did 1 trio kill with gano and PPS just for fun, easier for sure.

[Utopia]

So, is there a list anywhere for best dps in each combat style?

[aerendil]

DK's will only become Dead content when they stop dropping the best rings in the game, specially for people with MA's upgrades to jeweled rings. If they become harder to kill to the point less people will kill them, ring prices will Rise, which will provide higher incentive for people to kill them. Dead content is when there's nothing to gain/ too little to bother.

there's enough rings in game (it's been a common drop for years) and it's rare for rings to be removed from game, so it doesn't really matter how many rings are coming in.

 

Is Nex easier or harder now? Can you kill her w/o top-tier gear?

I did 1 trio kill with gano and PPS just for fun, easier for sure.

what are the optimal tactics for nex now?

[brunokiller]

I made this post on the rsof, please discuss.

 

BEFORE YOU POST: Buttonmashing does not refer to going full ****** on your keyboard, it means the need to use (mainly basic) abilities constantly.

 

THE PROBLEM

 

I feel that abilities are used because they are there, rather than a tactical decision and I want to change that.

 

Currently, Rs combat is mashing your actionbar so you activate basic abilities as they become available and in the meantime you try to tactically unload thresholds/ultimates while having not much of an idea what your opponent is doing. I feel that the focus on constantly using abilities takes away much of the enjoyment and tactical thinking in combat.

 

Momentum may sound like a solution, but it doesn't tackle the root of the problem - you're forced to spam abilities.

 

My GOAL

 

I feel that abilities should be a small-medium dps boost and a tactical choice in combat, rather than being the majority of damage.

Abilities should not favour either fast or slow weapons.

 

MY SOLUTION

 

Using abilities no longer gains adrenaline, only autoattacks do.

Basic abilities drain 5-15% adrenaline.

Tresholds require 50% adrenaline to activate and drain 15-30% adrenaline.

Ultimates require 100% adrenaline to activate and drain 50-75% adrenaline.

Momentum is removed - auto attacks are buffed/balanced accordingly.

The gain of adrenaline should be balanced such that the adrenaline bar fills in roughly 40-60 seconds.

When you activate an ability, it replaces what would have been your next auto attack.

Abilities still have cooldowns so you can't do the same ability shorty after.

Food does not drain adrenaline.

 

If you've made it this far you should notice it's actually quite similar to how the old special bar and attacks worked in old rs :)

You can still make combos of various abilities in pvp or boss hunting if you want, and if you just want to train you'd train just like you used to, using specs every few minutes.

 

Quick find code: 296-297-458-64113369

[Demoli]

Uuuh, i honestly don't know. In a PvP situation, a spammer will, in most cases, lose to a guy with the same gear/stats who knows his strategy. Give it soem months for the PvP scene to cool down from all this ruccus, and maybe then it would be more optimal to discuss it. It hasn't passed a week since the update, almost any non-glitch fix would be a bit too hasty now imo.

[Alg]

Uuuh, i honestly don't know. In a PvP situation, a spammer will, in most cases, lose to a guy with the same gear/stats who knows his strategy. Give it soem months for the PvP scene to cool down from all this ruccus, and maybe then it would be more optimal to discuss it. It hasn't passed a week since the update, almost any non-glitch fix would be a bit too hasty now imo.

PvM is quite the opposite. All you need for grinding against monsters (and probably bosses, I don't know) is to spam your damage-dealing abilities as they appear. In that case, the solution isn't to change abilities but to change monsters. You shouldn't really need tactics for grinding, but it might make elite mobs (by which I mean things like Glacors, TDs, and Mithril Dragons) and bosses more interesting.

 

So if they release an enemy that runs away from you, you could use stun abilities and the ones that do extra damage if the opponent moves.

[Demoli]

Yeah, I agree with that, in PvM, you will very rarely use abilities in a strategical manner, it's much mroe about stacking your auto+ a damage dealing ability, rather than timing certain abilities specificly. Sure, there are time where you might do that (defensive abilities like Resonance for the most part really), but mobs still provide little to no challenge, I wish they adresed that.

 

That being said, it's more of a problem with the monsters than the abilities in themselves.

[Quyneax]

I made this post on the rsof, please discuss.

 

BEFORE YOU POST: Buttonmashing does not refer to going full ****** on your keyboard, it means the need to use (mainly basic) abilities constantly.

 

THE PROBLEM

 

I feel that abilities are used because they are there, rather than a tactical decision and I want to change that.

 

Currently, Rs combat is mashing your actionbar so you activate basic abilities as they become available and in the meantime you try to tactically unload thresholds/ultimates while having not much of an idea what your opponent is doing. I feel that the focus on constantly using abilities takes away much of the enjoyment and tactical thinking in combat.

 

Momentum may sound like a solution, but it doesn't tackle the root of the problem - you're forced to spam abilities.

 

My GOAL

 

I feel that abilities should be a small-medium dps boost and a tactical choice in combat, rather than being the majority of damage.

Abilities should not favour either fast or slow weapons.

 

MY SOLUTION

 

Using abilities no longer gains adrenaline, only autoattacks do.

Basic abilities drain 5-15% adrenaline.

Tresholds require 50% adrenaline to activate and drain 15-30% adrenaline.

Ultimates require 100% adrenaline to activate and drain 50-75% adrenaline.

Momentum is removed - auto attacks are buffed/balanced accordingly.

The gain of adrenaline should be balanced such that the adrenaline bar fills in roughly 40-60 seconds.

When you activate an ability, it replaces what would have been your next auto attack.

Abilities still have cooldowns so you can't do the same ability shorty after.

Food does not drain adrenaline.

 

If you've made it this far you should notice it's actually quite similar to how the old special bar and attacks worked in old rs :)

You can still make combos of various abilities in pvp or boss hunting if you want, and if you just want to train you'd train just like you used to, using specs every few minutes.

 

Quick find code: 296-297-458-64113369

I think it's important that the default state is a full adrenaline bar rather than an empty one. Otherwise pvp (especially wilderness) starts off so sluggishly. I imagine it's very hard to kill someone quickly enough to prevent them from teleporting.

[Asandari]

I haven't had much of a chance to fully investigate this new combat system, but so far it's not that bad. I guess we'll see how this results over time.

[Leon S]

They didn't do a good job at balancing out ability damage with different weapons.

 

Right now, if you use a weapon that has the fastest attack speed, you will deal normal damage with abilities. If you use a fast weapon, your damage with abilities will be reduced by 20% and if you use an average speed weapon, your damage with abilities will be reduced by around 33%.

 

After maxing a couple of times with different weapons with Punish (100% weapon damage ability), these were the results:

 

Bronze dagger (fastest): 146

Bronze longsword (fast): 128

Bronze 2h sword (average): 140

 

So, until they fix this, it's best to use a weapon that has the fastest attack speed.