2007 - Old School RuneScape... You Vote! - [It's Here!]

[Kaida23]

Things like pathfinding, adding the run button near the minimap, the option to mute the music in the login screen, and to right click PMs to reply, no randoms in combat.. Those wouldn't effect the game very much, if at all, but would add leaps and bounds when it comes to usability.

 

Except none of those things were in RuneScape in 2007, those are current benefits. People wanted legacy servers and they're getting them, with all the good and bad that entails. I don't see any reason to update them at all, with the exception of anti-bot measures (yes, I finally agree the 07 servers need it).

[Wkw]

Things like pathfinding, adding the run button near the minimap, the option to mute the music in the login screen, and to right click PMs to reply, no randoms in combat.. Those wouldn't effect the game very much, if at all, but would add leaps and bounds when it comes to usability.

 

Except none of those things were in RuneScape in 2007, those are current benefits. People wanted legacy servers and they're getting them, with all the good and bad that entails. I don't see any reason to update them at all, with the exception of anti-bot measures (yes, I finally agree the 07 servers need it).

 

You haven't read anything that I said, did you?

 

Usability features only do good for the game.

 

If you're 100% for an old runescape, why don't you also resubscribe for dialup or DSL so you can experience the old skool loading speeds of everything as well? Why not dig out your old windows 98 computer and play the game on that*? Or go to the junk yard, get a 13 inch 1024x768 CRT monitor and play the game on that? You need everything to be old school right?

No? Because they are different? No, they're the same bloody thing.

 

 

 

*on that note, I have a Pentium 3 PC that I might just use to play on.. for nostalgia purposes. Plus a fairly new slightly used laptop running windows 98 with 129mb of ram.. :P

[Saradomin_Mage]

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

[Ezee]

People complain about anything.

[Alg]

People complain about anything.

This post offends me and I want to complain about it.

[Wkw]

I'm complaining about you complaining. Stop it. It is annoying

 

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

 

I'm not talking about the status globes; I specifically mentioned the RUN toggle. Why? Because usability. Clicking a button is easier and more convent and faster to do than to click the options button and press the big run button.

Remove the percentage for all I care; so long as the toggle is there, that is what matters.

[Kaida23]

Things like pathfinding, adding the run button near the minimap, the option to mute the music in the login screen, and to right click PMs to reply, no randoms in combat.. Those wouldn't effect the game very much, if at all, but would add leaps and bounds when it comes to usability.

 

Except none of those things were in RuneScape in 2007, those are current benefits. People wanted legacy servers and they're getting them, with all the good and bad that entails. I don't see any reason to update them at all, with the exception of anti-bot measures (yes, I finally agree the 07 servers need it).

 

You haven't read anything that I said, did you?

 

Usability features only do good for the game.

 

If you're 100% for an old runescape, why don't you also resubscribe for dialup or DSL so you can experience the old skool loading speeds of everything as well? Why not dig out your old windows 98 computer and play the game on that*? Or go to the junk yard, get a 13 inch 1024x768 CRT monitor and play the game on that? You need everything to be old school right?

No? Because they are different? No, they're the same bloody thing.

 

 

 

*on that note, I have a Pentium 3 PC that I might just use to play on.. for nostalgia purposes. Plus a fairly new slightly used laptop running windows 98 with 129mb of ram.. :P

 

No, I read what you wrote. I just disagree. I think that if everyone is so jazzed to play a 6 year old version of the game, then that's what they should play.

 

And for the record, I'm currently playing on a laptop from 2006. How's that for old school? :P

[Saradomin_Mage]

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

Remove the percentage for all I care; so long as the toggle is there, that is what matters.

That's what people will complain about.

Do you want the quickpray globe with that too?

[Wkw]

Things like pathfinding, adding the run button near the minimap, the option to mute the music in the login screen, and to right click PMs to reply, no randoms in combat.. Those wouldn't effect the game very much, if at all, but would add leaps and bounds when it comes to usability.

 

Except none of those things were in RuneScape in 2007, those are current benefits. People wanted legacy servers and they're getting them, with all the good and bad that entails. I don't see any reason to update them at all, with the exception of anti-bot measures (yes, I finally agree the 07 servers need it).

 

You haven't read anything that I said, did you?

 

Usability features only do good for the game.

 

If you're 100% for an old runescape, why don't you also resubscribe for dialup or DSL so you can experience the old skool loading speeds of everything as well? Why not dig out your old windows 98 computer and play the game on that*? Or go to the junk yard, get a 13 inch 1024x768 CRT monitor and play the game on that? You need everything to be old school right?

No? Because they are different? No, they're the same bloody thing.

 

 

 

*on that note, I have a Pentium 3 PC that I might just use to play on.. for nostalgia purposes. Plus a fairly new slightly used laptop running windows 98 with 129mb of ram.. :P

 

No, I read what you wrote. I just disagree. I think that if everyone is so jazzed to play a 6 year old version of the game, then that's what they should play.

 

And for the record, I'm currently playing on a laptop from 2006. How's that for old school? :P

Not old enough! I have this bad boy sitting next to me running 98/xp as a steam chat bot. Mostly xp, though. I don't have a wireless card that works with 98. Will be using it for the oldscape

 

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

Remove the percentage for all I care; so long as the toggle is there, that is what matters.

That's what people will complain about.

Do you want the quickpray globe with that too?

 

They'll realize that the usability it adds outweighs any of their nostalgia-induced anger.

 

No, I don't want the prayer, hp, or any other globes that are there. Part of the core mechanic of combat was to look at your HP icon as well as your prayer icon and switching between your inventory and weapon screen for the special.

Yes, it adds usability but it changes how the game works

[Alg]

That's what people will complain about.

Do you want the quickpray globe with that too?

I guess it depends on whether people are hoping for the old game exactly as it was, or the old game with some modern performance upgrades.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Things like pathfinding, adding the run button near the minimap, the option to mute the music in the login screen, and to right click PMs to reply, no randoms in combat.. Those wouldn't effect the game very much, if at all, but would add leaps and bounds when it comes to usability.

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

Remove the percentage for all I care; so long as the toggle is there, that is what matters.

That's what people will complain about.

Do you want the quickpray globe with that too?

 

They'll realize that the usability it adds outweighs any of their nostalgia-induced anger.

 

No, I don't want the prayer, hp, or any other globes that are there. Part of the core mechanic of combat was to look at your HP icon as well as your prayer icon and switching between your inventory and weapon screen for the special.

Yes, it adds usability but it changes how the game works

Likewise, it's not too hard to click on the options screen and hit the run button, or even just hold the Ctrl key. Even if it doesn't persist between login sessions, you just need to toggle it once and you're set to run, and you only need to re-toggle it after you inevitably run out of energy.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Saradomin_Mage

[Kaida23]

Not old enough! I have this bad boy sitting next to me running 98/xp as a steam chat bot. Mostly xp, though. I don't have a wireless card that works with 98. Will be using it for the oldscape

Believe it or not I still have the wireless PCMCIA card I used on the old Win98 laptop I had before this one. Come to think of it, I still have the old laptop. I'll have to dig it out and give it a try.

[teknofield]

I'm still driving my 1998 Civic, does that count? I just think they look better than the newer ones... (I also don't have enough to afford a new one :D)

[Wkw]

 

Likewise, it's not too hard to click on the options screen and hit the run button, or even just hold the Ctrl key. Even if it doesn't persist between login sessions, you just need to toggle it once and you're set to run, and you only need to re-toggle it after you inevitably run out of energy.

Each to his own I suppose. I bet my opinion would change once I start playing, though.

[teknofield]

Misplacedme, thanks for all the work you have put in breaking down these votes. Made life easier for everyone.

 

Thanks again!

[demby123]

I don't feel like reading the 200 new replies since last night. Can someone explain to me how we jumped 20k votes since this afternoon?

 

Jagex is spamming the hell out of players to vote for it. Showing advertisements on the homepage, lobby, log in screen, facebook etc. They're also offering free first month membership to the people who vote for it. I think there's other stuff but i'm forgetting it right now.

With the exception of the ingame stuff, I wouldn't call it spamming. I mean most people barely read the front page as it is, and it wasn't very visible at first.

Now that people actually know what's going on they'll participate. We wouldn't want an inaccurate poll now would we?

 

I'm still driving my 1998 Civic, does that count? I just think they look better than the newer ones... (I also don't have enough to afford a new one :D)

I would definitely rather have a 98 civic than a newer civic, this from someone who works at honda.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Yes, you can calculate hourly costs for a major project by keeping track of engineering effort...but what does that have to do with old players rejoining?

Okay I admit I wasn't completely clear with what I was talking about. There is a developing cost for new content, right? Because players value content differently, and some content will have more of an affect on the players than other content, it is possible to calculate how valuable different content updates are. There is definitely content in RS that is rarely used, and so the costs of developing that content did not bring back worthy gains.

 

Just looking at the main RS page, I doubt the sinkholes content is going to spark huge interest in retired runescape players, it's not going to suddenly bring in a lot of new players. This 07scape has created a lot of talk, and a lot of talk from retired players who express interest in returning, so the developing costs for 07scape is likely to be a lot more valuable than just your average RS update.

 

Yes, there is a cost for developing features. I'd conjecture that it's harder to gauge the value of an update until it's been around for a bit, although there were definitely some projects that bombed out (Rat Catchers, for instance).

 

To your next point, talk is cheap. Membership will be the true test - the people that talk about wanting this will have to put their money where their mouth is.

 

I'm not going to pretend I can estimate how many people can play, but I find your 5k dedicated and 10k enthusiasts to be quite pessimistic.

 

I'll admit that it's a bit low, but here's why - I'm using a similar thought process to when RSC became a snow globe.

 

The community was fiercely divided on whether or not RS2 represented a good direction for the same, so a fervent faithful delegation of about 12,000 players hung back on the old servers. That number plummeted during what is known as "the Renaissance of RuneScape", when Members' received a smattering of awesome, revolutionary updates (special attacks, clues, more quests than you could shake a stick at). RSC, by comparison, was static - never going to be revised with the latest bot detection, never going to get anything nearly as awesome as what RS2 had, and that's what everyone had to live with.

 

The number really got low before RSC's doors were opened once again, but this time to an even smaller crowd of enthusiasts, ultimately put off by the tedium and dullness of Classic.

 

I find that point interesting since it was the fervent faithful so many years back that said very similar things to today - that this is what the community wanted, that it'd be more popular, that it'd be better than the other way, etc.

 

Dat history lesson. :/

 

Yes developing costs are expensive, but the content has already been developed! Suddenly this huge development cost has disappeared. It will only be a small team to basically set it up, yes there will be a tiny bit of development, but compared to the actual content, that is ready to go. Also, you seem to be forgetting more overhead costs that don't have to be considered, Jagex already have deals with server providers and everything for current RS, will these current providers give away the potential to get a lot more business from Jagex? Of course not, there will likely be cheaper costs since Jagex will be an on-going customer.

 

Development costs are expensive, but the content has been developed!

Overhead can be expensive, but most of it has already been covered!

 

The main costs involved will be the running costs, which is relatively cheap. There will be a bit of development overhead to get the servers ready and started, but than other than that there isn't too much more, especially compared to main RS.

 

So yes, an individual looking at the costs of running 07scape will think it sounds expensive, but for Jagex it will be relatively cheap (not to mention the likely potential gains).

 

And to finish off, if this 07scape turns out to be a huge flop and waste of time and money, Jagex will brush it off and move on. You wont notice a thing (if there was real risk in this it wouldn't be given the chance).

 

I can think of a few things for those people to develop. This would keep a small team busy for at least 2 months. "Many" years if you want to tack on a good bot detection framework.

• Java 6 to Java 7 migration - Hell, that code could run on Java 5. They reached their technical limitations with it before it went EOL, luckily.
  
• If you're not going to migrate to Java 7, make sure your code works with it. Not many people will use Java 6 anymore, thanks to the Swiss cheese that is its security.
  
• Updating the model objects - This means database work, too. A character in RS proper isn't the same as a character in '07Scape.
  
• Adding/Ensuring compatibility between chat systems - Database and chat system work, making sure that the chat server can support both games and identify a player from a particular game. May also have to take into account that any player can have 200 friends in their friends list. Doesn't mention Clan/Friend Chat, since that wasn't a feature in '07.
  
• Stress test - body-slam your database and see how well it does.
  
• (Potentially) Bot framework groundwork - If this gets serious traction they'll need to do a lot of work to do this. If they don't want to hear a lot of players piss and moan about bots then they'll need to do a lot of work to do this. Then again, their track record with this sort of thing has sucked horribly - it's been 8 years since they announced they had systems in place, and every one of them failed miserably. That'll eat up some dev time for sure!
  

Quit thinking about just generic things like maintenance and personnel. There's a lot of hidden costs to this, too.

 

Oh, I nearly forgot - there was this one time in which they blew "tens of millions of pounds" on some project - some Sci Fi game - that didn't pan out. Before that, there was Funorb. After that, there was 8 Realms. They couldn't brush those major losses off, and the effects of that are ever present.

 

Jagex isn't infallible, and they don't have tens of millions to just throw away. They had damn well better know the cost of what they're getting into before they get in it. And it's my very strong opinion that the community should realize the cost of what Jagex is getting into before they think it's "cheap" or "not a big deal if it fails".

 

Every failure will suck for the company.

[Ammako]

I'm complaining about you complaining. Stop it. It is annoying

 

Believe me people will complain if you put the status globes next to the minimap.

 

I'm not talking about the status globes; I specifically mentioned the RUN toggle. Why? Because usability. Clicking a button is easier and more convent and faster to do than to click the options button and press the big run button.

Remove the percentage for all I care; so long as the toggle is there, that is what matters.

You can just hold down Ctrl to run.

[WeatherMatt]

I wonder if people will beg for some non-PK, generally considered awesome useability upgrades (things like bank improvements) and if they will be shot down by the purists who want to keep the 'snapshot' vibe in effect.

[Nabbagad]

I'll admit that it's a bit low, but here's why - I'm using a similar thought process to when RSC became a snow globe.

 

The community was fiercely divided on whether or not RS2 represented a good direction for the same, so a fervent faithful delegation of about 12,000 players hung back on the old servers. That number plummeted during what is known as "the Renaissance of RuneScape", when Members' received a smattering of awesome, revolutionary updates (special attacks, clues, more quests than you could shake a stick at). RSC, by comparison, was static - never going to be revised with the latest bot detection, never going to get anything nearly as awesome as what RS2 had, and that's what everyone had to live with.

 

The number really got low before RSC's doors were opened once again, but this time to an even smaller crowd of enthusiasts, ultimately put off by the tedium and dullness of Classic.

 

I find that point interesting since it was the fervent faithful so many years back that said very similar things to today - that this is what the community wanted, that it'd be more popular, that it'd be better than the other way, etc.

 

Dat history lesson. :/

This is different though, there were many more people during the 2007 era compared to the classic era. I do agree that it's good to look at that as a possible example, but the circumstances really are quite a bit different to be a fair comparison.

 

There will always be people who won't want to adapt and can't handle change, but it seems to be fairly accepted that the changes from classic to RS2 were positive for most, mainly because there wasn't really any game changing features, mostly just progressively better. These days there have been game changing features that can't all be seen as positive progression. There are some general assumptions there, but I would say that's roughly the case.

 

 

I can think of a few things for those people to develop. This would keep a small team busy for at least 2 months. "Many" years if you want to tack on a good bot detection framework.

• Java 6 to Java 7 migration - Hell, that code could run on Java 5. They reached their technical limitations with it before it went EOL, luckily.
  
• If you're not going to migrate to Java 7, make sure your code works with it. Not many people will use Java 6 anymore, thanks to the Swiss cheese that is its security.
  
• Updating the model objects - This means database work, too. A character in RS proper isn't the same as a character in '07Scape.
  
• Adding/Ensuring compatibility between chat systems - Database and chat system work, making sure that the chat server can support both games and identify a player from a particular game. May also have to take into account that any player can have 200 friends in their friends list. Doesn't mention Clan/Friend Chat, since that wasn't a feature in '07.
  
• Stress test - body-slam your database and see how well it does.
  
• (Potentially) Bot framework groundwork - If this gets serious traction they'll need to do a lot of work to do this. If they don't want to hear a lot of players piss and moan about bots then they'll need to do a lot of work to do this. Then again, their track record with this sort of thing has sucked horribly - it's been 8 years since they announced they had systems in place, and every one of them failed miserably. That'll eat up some dev time for sure!
  

Quit thinking about just generic things like maintenance and personnel. There's a lot of hidden costs to this, too.

 

Oh, I nearly forgot - there was this one time in which they blew "tens of millions of pounds" on some project - some Sci Fi game - that didn't pan out. Before that, there was Funorb. After that, there was 8 Realms. They couldn't brush those major losses off, and the effects of that are ever present.

 

Jagex isn't infallible, and they don't have tens of millions to just throw away. They had damn well better know the cost of what they're getting into before they get in it. And it's my very strong opinion that the community should realize the cost of what Jagex is getting into before they think it's "cheap" or "not a big deal if it fails".

 

Every failure will suck for the company.

Like I did mention, these will be the initial once off overhead development costs, and taking only 1 - 2 months to complete is RELATIVELY cheap for Jagex and their current situation.

 

After this, it is mostly maintenance (including anti-bot tech) and personnel.

 

And lastly, if this was any kind of dangerous risk, Jagex would not be doing it!

[teknofield]

I'll admit that it's a bit low, but here's why - I'm using a similar thought process to when RSC became a snow globe.

 

The community was fiercely divided on whether or not RS2 represented a good direction for the same, so a fervent faithful delegation of about 12,000 players hung back on the old servers. That number plummeted during what is known as "the Renaissance of RuneScape", when Members' received a smattering of awesome, revolutionary updates (special attacks, clues, more quests than you could shake a stick at). RSC, by comparison, was static - never going to be revised with the latest bot detection, never going to get anything nearly as awesome as what RS2 had, and that's what everyone had to live with.

 

The number really got low before RSC's doors were opened once again, but this time to an even smaller crowd of enthusiasts, ultimately put off by the tedium and dullness of Classic.

 

I find that point interesting since it was the fervent faithful so many years back that said very similar things to today - that this is what the community wanted, that it'd be more popular, that it'd be better than the other way, etc.

 

Dat history lesson. :/

 

Your analogy is correct in some ways but there are many different conflicting variables here:

-Other than the new combat system, RS2 and EoC are pretty much the same thing. Same game play, same skilling, same interaction, just cosmetic changes and added features are what differs them.

-RS2 was 100% different from RSC. Everything from the tiles to the trees were different. Game play was much different and the way you interacted with NPC's, objects, and friends were different.

-Our generation is much different than before. Players were entering a whole new generation/era of gaming. EoC is NOT something the world hasn't seen.(WoW). RS2 was.

-While 12,000 players were a lot back then, they are no match to 200k players (and increasing).

-JaGeX is a much different company then it was back then. They are much more experienced and they have a lot more money and a larger developing team. So with this, they can advertise properly, maintain their servers better, and update a few things here and there.

 

But of course, if JaGeX is not careful this could be another RSC.

[MPM]

Misplacedme, thanks for all the work you have put in breaking down these votes. Made life easier for everyone.

 

Thanks again!

Sure thing. I'm glad it's been useful.

[Nabbagad]

Misplacedme, thanks for all the work you have put in breaking down these votes. Made life easier for everyone.

 

Thanks again!

Sure thing. I'm glad it's been useful.

Yep nice job, I've enjoyed being able to view your graphs.

 

@07RS, what's the point in a post like that? I don't mind having proper debates but posts like that aren't doing anyone good.

 

Just a question, I know this will come off annoying as others have likely asked for it, but are Tip.It planning on getting 2007scape sub-forum like RSC? I would love to start discussing what people have planned and predictions. This thread is too big to really get any useful topics going, just keep it for discussing the votes and the informative debates.

[SwreeTak]

As we have now passed the 200k votes mark it seems Jagex is really doing all they can to get more votes. I'm sorry, but I am still not going to put my vote in there. It is just too much of a hype now, and I want to focus on the main game.

[07RS]

As we have now passed the 200k votes mark it seems Jagex is really doing all they can to get more votes. I'm sorry, but I am still not going to put my vote in there. It is just too much of a hype now, and I want to focus on the main game.

I'd like to point out something, to you, and everyone that won't play these servers but continue on EoC. Until the poll hits 500,000 votes, there is no development team or maintenance. While I can't sit here and say for sure, but I feel as if this will effect the normal game, if they have no extra people, some will have to watch over these new ones, that is for sure, you can't just leave a game server running and never have to do anything to it.

 

Just a thought, not telling you that you have to vote, still up to you, but think about it before completely shutting the idea out.