30-Apr-2013 - Instanced God Wars & EoC Updates

[muggiwhplar]

I'd rate the old combat system as a 6/10.

I'd rate EOC straight out of beta a 7/10... It'd be an 8/10 if abilities never existed.

I'd rate EOC now a 4/10. It's too unstable and sporatic. There seems to be no vision for the future. The novelty's worn off. It replaced the old flawed system with a newer system that's shown to contain just as many, if not more flaws.

 

Wish they just tweaked and rebalanced the old system instead. All it really needed was some top-tier gear nerfing and balancing across the weapon types/tiers and combat styles

[Yoko Kurama]

I'd rate the old combat system as a 6/10.

I'd rate EOC straight out of beta a 7/10... It'd be an 8/10 if abilities never existed.

I'd rate EOC now a 4/10. It's too unstable and sporatic. There seems to be no vision for the future. The novelty's worn off. It replaced the old flawed system with a newer system that's shown to contain just as many, if not more flaws.

 

Wish they just tweaked and rebalanced the old system instead. All it really needed was some top-tier gear nerfing and balancing across the weapon types/tiers and combat styles

 

This. It started out as a very promising project that has only deteriorated with every passing month, it seems. At this point, I'd simply scrap the whole thing and basically incorporate the best aspects of EoC into the old system. At least that's something you can do and get out of the way in, say, a month, rather than constant changes.

[Quyneax]

Long badly formatted post about combat suggestions.

 

[hide]

Really the whole armour differentiation is lame. Equipment doesn't really do much provided it's tough, and in the case of armour, covers you up. Having 'power armour' makes about as much sense as having different pants for fullbacks (with heavy machineguns) and idk another term. But anyway. No sense at all.

 

Things to do:

1) Remove armour differentiation. Introduce options for all classes (including 'all') at at least every tier that is a multiple of 5. Make sure the armour alternates between skilling and combat-based and has both tradeable and untradeable variations, to benefit skilling.

2) RC update: http://forum.tip.it/...00#entry5390180 to help crafting armour - move the usefulness of rcing towards crafting equipment, but keep the training method runecrafting.

3) Left-click targets.

4) Collapse abilities into classless things - DPS, DoT, Disabling, AoE/multi-target at various adrenaline drains. Add a 'flavour' ability or two at each tier, examples are Kick and err... really classes aren't that different right now are they? Snipe I guess works.

5) Make strength affect ranged and magic damage.

6) Make level and equipment multipliers, like the old formula a + (b + level) * (c + equipment bonus) * d. Prayers are of course level multipliers, potions just increase level. Bring back the old point-based equipment system.

7) DW weapons (and autoattacks) 3 tick abilities, 1h 4 tick, 2h 5 tick. Normalize damage accordingly. Remove weapon speed as variable (since it depends on type only), but keep the possibility to be slower or faster than the norm through 'traits'. Remove separate off-hand attacks for dual wield (srs not like off-hand is going to do less damage if you are strong enough to properly use the weapon - fencing manuals even state that mastery of the weapon in both hands is required to learn dw properly). Naturally, ability rotations in this system (in case of cb option b, see below) are easier for 2h due to fewer abilities needed, so add some more low-cd dw and more slower 2h.

8) Remove switching global cooldown.

9) Make runes combineable into one inventory slot - equippable spells. Remove combat spells from ability book. Treat as level-locked ammo.

10) Collapse all spellbooks into one - giving up one combat style to farm properly is no fair.

11) Introduce a 3x3 weakness system with 4 elements (which can be stances like in BA, or other things). Stab/Arrow/Ray and Slash/Thrown/Missile and Crush/Bolt/Burst, with the elements being air/water/earth/fire.

12) Add a 'trait' system for weapons, e.g. spirit shields get 'damage reduction' and 'prayer drain', void gets 'damage boost', Dharok's items get 'Set - Dharok's') - all special abilities collapsed into the same (salve, void, fsh, tokkul-zo, dragon slayer gloves and whatnot).

13) Replace prayer bonus with prayer point cap-boosting equipment - 10k lp and 2k prayer, or 5k lp and 5k prayer w/ spirit shield - paladin-style tank?

14) Introduce soak - not as it was pre-EoC, but the reverse - soak a % damage below (for example) 50 + defence level, depending on equipment, add more soak to shields. Effect: strong slow 2h weapons deal more damage to shields (easier to overcome soak), dual wield weapons deal more dps to low-soak enemies like 2h users, shields can tank dual wield more easily. Important: roll out shield, 2h and dw classifications to all monsters - let all monsters use abilities. Zilyana has a shield dammit!

15) Reduce all current damage and lifepoints by a factor 10.

16) Add unarmed grappling combat - low damage, many stuns/binds and stat drains. Hi Graardor.

17) Remove tagging system and xp on kill - far too easy to unbalance - balance based on dps is much fairer and also much easier. Also aids cannon.

18) Buff familiar damage to be at least equal to a third of the primary weapon dps at the same level - it certainly increases combat level enough.

19) Remove the distinction basic/treshold/ultimate, differentiate based on adrenaline drain - Pulverize is not worth 100% adren, but how about 80%?

20) Default to more than 0% adrenaline, either 50% or 100% seems fair. In case of 100%, rename Adrenaline to Fatigue.

21) Redo combat level formula to take into account combat styles. Basic level of defence, hp, prayer and strength, with classes of magic, ranged, melee, summoning, and each class adds to combat level depending on dps. Example: 80 ranged, 70 other classes is 8 + 2 + 1 + 2 from summoning (because summoning can always be used along with primary). Secondary style adds less than primary, tertiary still less. All 80s is maybe 8 + 4 + 2 + 4?

22) Remove much health from bosses, give them healing abilities or even just food instead. Also prayer.

 

Two options for combat:

a) Increase some ability cooldowns (mostly basics), make all abilities drain adrenaline, add basic adrenaline regeneration and regeneration from autoattacks (about 50/50, with 100% gained per full minute in combat? so for dw, 33 hits for 50%, for 1h 25, for 2h 20, and 2 mins out of combat to restore full adrenaline).

b) Remove autoattacks; Momentum equals spamming low-cd basics (redo this basic to have no cd, only global cd as dictated by weapon style). Add tiered abilities, improving your entire suite of abilities every 20 or 25 levels.

[/hide]

 

Woo fresh discussion material :P. Anyone have anything to add? Just writing this up now.

[constrictor]

email a mod pls and ty.

[Dreezer]

a lot of those suggestions would really benefit the game, especially the

 

- shield > dw > 2h > shield

- bosses with ability's/healing

- collapse all spellbooks into one (really, you learn new spells and just forget the others?? and a simple pray can reset (not restore) your memory???)

- traits for weapons and armor (this i really like, something like the barrows equipments have now without the 'i lose sight of half my inventory by just hovering over the damn thing' problem)

- and a lot of other very interesting things

 

like constrictor said: mail this to a mod and start lobbying =D>

[Miss Lioness]

I completely agree!

 

With your permission I would like to post this on the RS forums

 

No wait, we should even make a global message from tip it!

[Blyaunte]

Long badly formatted post about combat suggestions.

 

[hide]

Really the whole armour differentiation is lame. Equipment doesn't really do much provided it's tough, and in the case of armour, covers you up. Having 'power armour' makes about as much sense as having different pants for fullbacks (with heavy machineguns) and idk another term. But anyway. No sense at all.

 

Things to do:

1) Remove armour differentiation. Introduce options for all classes (including 'all') at at least every tier that is a multiple of 5. Make sure the armour alternates between skilling and combat-based and has both tradeable and untradeable variations, to benefit skilling.

2) RC update: http://forum.tip.it/...00?do=findComment&comment=5390180 to help crafting armour - move the usefulness of rcing towards crafting equipment, but keep the training method runecrafting.

3) Left-click targets.

4) Collapse abilities into classless things - DPS, DoT, Disabling, AoE/multi-target at various adrenaline drains. Add a 'flavour' ability or two at each tier, examples are Kick and err... really classes aren't that different right now are they? Snipe I guess works.

5) Make strength affect ranged and magic damage.

6) Make level and equipment multipliers, like the old formula a + (b + level) * (c + equipment bonus) * d. Prayers are of course level multipliers, potions just increase level. Bring back the old point-based equipment system.

7) DW weapons (and autoattacks) 3 tick abilities, 1h 4 tick, 2h 5 tick. Normalize damage accordingly. Remove weapon speed as variable (since it depends on type only), but keep the possibility to be slower or faster than the norm through 'traits'. Remove separate off-hand attacks for dual wield (srs not like off-hand is going to do less damage if you are strong enough to properly use the weapon - fencing manuals even state that mastery of the weapon in both hands is required to learn dw properly). Naturally, ability rotations in this system (in case of cb option b, see below) are easier for 2h due to fewer abilities needed, so add some more low-cd dw and more slower 2h.

8) Remove switching global cooldown.

9) Make runes combineable into one inventory slot - equippable spells. Remove combat spells from ability book. Treat as level-locked ammo.

10) Collapse all spellbooks into one - giving up one combat style to farm properly is no fair.

11) Introduce a 3x3 weakness system with 4 elements (which can be stances like in BA, or other things). Stab/Arrow/Ray and Slash/Thrown/Missile and Crush/Bolt/Burst, with the elements being air/water/earth/fire.

12) Add a 'trait' system for weapons, e.g. spirit shields get 'damage reduction' and 'prayer drain', void gets 'damage boost', Dharok's items get 'Set - Dharok's') - all special abilities collapsed into the same (salve, void, fsh, tokkul-zo, dragon slayer gloves and whatnot).

13) Replace prayer bonus with prayer point cap-boosting equipment - 10k lp and 2k prayer, or 5k lp and 5k prayer w/ spirit shield - paladin-style tank?

14) Introduce soak - not as it was pre-EoC, but the reverse - soak a % damage below (for example) 50 + defence level, depending on equipment, add more soak to shields. Effect: strong slow 2h weapons deal more damage to shields (easier to overcome soak), dual wield weapons deal more dps to low-soak enemies like 2h users, shields can tank dual wield more easily. Important: roll out shield, 2h and dw classifications to all monsters - let all monsters use abilities. Zilyana has a shield dammit!

15) Reduce all current damage and lifepoints by a factor 10.

16) Add unarmed grappling combat - low damage, many stuns/binds and stat drains. Hi Graardor.

17) Remove tagging system and xp on kill - far too easy to unbalance - balance based on dps is much fairer and also much easier. Also aids cannon.

18) Buff familiar damage to be at least equal to a third of the primary weapon dps at the same level - it certainly increases combat level enough.

19) Remove the distinction basic/treshold/ultimate, differentiate based on adrenaline drain - Pulverize is not worth 100% adren, but how about 80%?

20) Default to more than 0% adrenaline, either 50% or 100% seems fair. In case of 100%, rename Adrenaline to Fatigue.

21) Redo combat level formula to take into account combat styles. Basic level of defence, hp, prayer and strength, with classes of magic, ranged, melee, summoning, and each class adds to combat level depending on dps. Example: 80 ranged, 70 other classes is 8 + 2 + 1 + 2 from summoning (because summoning can always be used along with primary). Secondary style adds less than primary, tertiary still less. All 80s is maybe 8 + 4 + 2 + 4?

22) Remove much health from bosses, give them healing abilities or even just food instead. Also prayer.

 

Two options for combat:

a) Increase some ability cooldowns (mostly basics), make all abilities drain adrenaline, add basic adrenaline regeneration and regeneration from autoattacks (about 50/50, with 100% gained per full minute in combat? so for dw, 33 hits for 50%, for 1h 25, for 2h 20, and 2 mins out of combat to restore full adrenaline).

b) Remove autoattacks; Momentum equals spamming low-cd basics (redo this basic to have no cd, only global cd as dictated by weapon style). Add tiered abilities, improving your entire suite of abilities every 20 or 25 levels.

[/hide]

 

Woo fresh discussion material :P. Anyone have anything to add? Just writing this up now.

 

Nice work - when and where is it going to be posted so I can give it full support?

[Miss Lioness]

We should just post something that this has been feedback put forward from the Tip.It Community.

 

Gives it much more weight!

[Mylez]

Global message from Tip.It is win. Would have so much more substance which mods simply couldn't ignore.

[Miss Lioness]

Global message from Tip.It is win. Would have so much more substance which mods simply couldn't ignore.

 

Hence I proposed that.

[Emaxganis]

Long badly formatted post about combat suggestions.

 

[hide]

Really the whole armour differentiation is lame. Equipment doesn't really do much provided it's tough, and in the case of armour, covers you up. Having 'power armour' makes about as much sense as having different pants for fullbacks (with heavy machineguns) and idk another term. But anyway. No sense at all.

 

Things to do:

1) Remove armour differentiation. Introduce options for all classes (including 'all') at at least every tier that is a multiple of 5. Make sure the armour alternates between skilling and combat-based and has both tradeable and untradeable variations, to benefit skilling.

2) RC update: http://forum.tip.it/...00?do=findComment&comment=5390180 to help crafting armour - move the usefulness of rcing towards crafting equipment, but keep the training method runecrafting.

3) Left-click targets.

4) Collapse abilities into classless things - DPS, DoT, Disabling, AoE/multi-target at various adrenaline drains. Add a 'flavour' ability or two at each tier, examples are Kick and err... really classes aren't that different right now are they? Snipe I guess works.

5) Make strength affect ranged and magic damage.

6) Make level and equipment multipliers, like the old formula a + (b + level) * (c + equipment bonus) * d. Prayers are of course level multipliers, potions just increase level. Bring back the old point-based equipment system.

7) DW weapons (and autoattacks) 3 tick abilities, 1h 4 tick, 2h 5 tick. Normalize damage accordingly. Remove weapon speed as variable (since it depends on type only), but keep the possibility to be slower or faster than the norm through 'traits'. Remove separate off-hand attacks for dual wield (srs not like off-hand is going to do less damage if you are strong enough to properly use the weapon - fencing manuals even state that mastery of the weapon in both hands is required to learn dw properly). Naturally, ability rotations in this system (in case of cb option b, see below) are easier for 2h due to fewer abilities needed, so add some more low-cd dw and more slower 2h.

8) Remove switching global cooldown.

9) Make runes combineable into one inventory slot - equippable spells. Remove combat spells from ability book. Treat as level-locked ammo.

10) Collapse all spellbooks into one - giving up one combat style to farm properly is no fair.

11) Introduce a 3x3 weakness system with 4 elements (which can be stances like in BA, or other things). Stab/Arrow/Ray and Slash/Thrown/Missile and Crush/Bolt/Burst, with the elements being air/water/earth/fire.

12) Add a 'trait' system for weapons, e.g. spirit shields get 'damage reduction' and 'prayer drain', void gets 'damage boost', Dharok's items get 'Set - Dharok's') - all special abilities collapsed into the same (salve, void, fsh, tokkul-zo, dragon slayer gloves and whatnot).

13) Replace prayer bonus with prayer point cap-boosting equipment - 10k lp and 2k prayer, or 5k lp and 5k prayer w/ spirit shield - paladin-style tank?

14) Introduce soak - not as it was pre-EoC, but the reverse - soak a % damage below (for example) 50 + defence level, depending on equipment, add more soak to shields. Effect: strong slow 2h weapons deal more damage to shields (easier to overcome soak), dual wield weapons deal more dps to low-soak enemies like 2h users, shields can tank dual wield more easily. Important: roll out shield, 2h and dw classifications to all monsters - let all monsters use abilities. Zilyana has a shield dammit!

15) Reduce all current damage and lifepoints by a factor 10.

16) Add unarmed grappling combat - low damage, many stuns/binds and stat drains. Hi Graardor.

17) Remove tagging system and xp on kill - far too easy to unbalance - balance based on dps is much fairer and also much easier. Also aids cannon.

18) Buff familiar damage to be at least equal to a third of the primary weapon dps at the same level - it certainly increases combat level enough.

19) Remove the distinction basic/treshold/ultimate, differentiate based on adrenaline drain - Pulverize is not worth 100% adren, but how about 80%?

20) Default to more than 0% adrenaline, either 50% or 100% seems fair. In case of 100%, rename Adrenaline to Fatigue.

21) Redo combat level formula to take into account combat styles. Basic level of defence, hp, prayer and strength, with classes of magic, ranged, melee, summoning, and each class adds to combat level depending on dps. Example: 80 ranged, 70 other classes is 8 + 2 + 1 + 2 from summoning (because summoning can always be used along with primary). Secondary style adds less than primary, tertiary still less. All 80s is maybe 8 + 4 + 2 + 4?

22) Remove much health from bosses, give them healing abilities or even just food instead. Also prayer.

 

Two options for combat:

a) Increase some ability cooldowns (mostly basics), make all abilities drain adrenaline, add basic adrenaline regeneration and regeneration from autoattacks (about 50/50, with 100% gained per full minute in combat? so for dw, 33 hits for 50%, for 1h 25, for 2h 20, and 2 mins out of combat to restore full adrenaline).

b) Remove autoattacks; Momentum equals spamming low-cd basics (redo this basic to have no cd, only global cd as dictated by weapon style). Add tiered abilities, improving your entire suite of abilities every 20 or 25 levels.

[/hide]

 

Woo fresh discussion material :P. Anyone have anything to add? Just writing this up now.

 

12# would be better from my point of view if all weapon/armour/rings/whatever had a random trait assigned to them when they are dropped/bought from a NPC. Of course some traits could be available only for weapons and others only for armour, but some could be shared by the two of them e.g. hp/stats/prayer boosts --if this is what you meant im sorry and didnt understand it haha--

 

As for merging all spellbooks into one, I dont completely agree since the idea is that each has it pro/con, here you would erradicate that which "simplyfies" it too much imho

[Artemis1330]

If power armour makes no sense, then how about walking around with a melting ice cream cone on your head. And all the other stupid, useless crap sof and solomons gave us that turned the game from a medieval fantasy game into Disney land on steroids.

 

edit- perhaps a little off topic sure, but just bothers me to see us now picking on power armour because "it does not make sense". Meanwhile all the sof outfit pictures with people dressed in glowing wings and shit get tons of likes on the picture thread.

[Miss Lioness]

On another note, I still think tank armour is not tanky enough =/

[Yoko Kurama]

If power armour makes no sense, then how about walking around with a melting ice cream cone on your head. And all the other stupid, useless crap sof and solomons gave us that turned the game from a medieval fantasy game into Disney land on steroids.

 

edit- perhaps a little off topic sure, but just bothers me to see us now picking on power armour because "it does not make sense". Meanwhile all the sof outfit pictures with people dressed in glowing wings and shit get tons of likes on the picture thread.

 

What does power armour have to do with SoF/SGS? Also, RS is a fantasy world -- it's not like fantasy worlds don't have bright colourful costumes, or wings etc etc.

 

Also, the reason everyone is hating on Power armour is that it has trashed on all our other armours, that's why. It was bad enough with the supremacy of Void/Nex pre-update, now Power armour just dominates everything while our defensive armours are useless.

[Alg]

That may have been true in early EoC, but it hasn't plainly been the case for the past 5 months ever since Drygores came along. Or now when half the armours are useless because of being designated as defensive. Or the fact that Mage/Range don't have T90 weaponry.

This is one of the many things I can't stand about our community. You have two choices: optimized DPS, and absolutely nothing else. That's fine if you have limitless resources, it's utterly useless for everyone else.

 

The point I was trying to make wasn't that everything is optimal, it's that everything is viable. It might not be great, but using something other than the cookie-cutter-maxed-player-setup isn't as crippling as it was in the past. Not even too bothered by the fact that melee has drygores: one tier of weapons is a hell of a lot better from being the only style that you could use.

[Binary Mage]

I think the EoC could be fixed with far less drastic changes--for the most part, the most glaring issue with the system before this week's changes was the lack of influence from your skill levels. The armor changes this week really seem to be making things more complicated than they need to be.

 

The main problems right now are:

 

1) We don't have nearly enough armor types in each tier to make the new armor class system work well. When a single tier of equipment only has tank armor or offense armor, it's not working to its best extent. However, adding player-chosen variations or more types of armor to each tier isn't the right way to go. The simplicity of the armor tiers is one of the things that makes RuneScape's combat system appealing in comparison to most games, where there's often more equipment at each potential level than anyone could ever possibly memorize.

 

2) Dual Wielding and 2h combat are both relatively equal at the moment. While it isn't that large of a problem, it's still something that makes dual wielding really fall flat. It should be something that has a specifc use over 2h weaponry.

 

3) The new level-influenced hit formula, while it works, makes things more complicated than they need to be, and the difference isn't really too noticable. The system before this week's update felt like it was a bit more stable and understandable, but needed more skill influence.

 

 

There's a variety of ways to change these, but my personal opinion is:

 

1) Remove armor classes, but standardize the equipment curve to be somewhere between where it was and where it is now. Trying to keep weaker armor relevant to the endgame isn't a very good idea, but at least make it that someone who can't afford the next tier isn't completely useless. The choice between having a shield and having 2h/dual weaponry is already enough of a choice between offensive and defensive capabilities. If we really need another layer of choice, at least move it to something more optional like jewelry. (Which already has more variety at the moment. Why not give a combat use to necklaces?)

 

2) Give dual-wielding a bonus effect where it has a chance to break through armor, and give 2h combat a bonus effect to deal a percent of the enemy's health as damage. Something like this makes the choice between 2h and dual wielding another aspect of preparation--is the enemy I am facing one that has high health, but low defense? Or are they loaded up with difficult armor that I need to penetrate? Player armor tiers don't really have a choice between armor and health, so both of these should be balanced so that 2h and DW are equally effective in PvP. There doesn't particularly need to be another level of complexity/rock-paper-scissors for PvP combat.

 

3) Remove the current influence of skills as its own portion of the hit/accuracy/defense formula, and instead make it that your level can increase the effectiveness of your equipment if you surpass the requirements to wield it. (For example: If you have 60 Defense and wield Dragon armor, it will be at the same point it is now. However, if you have 70 defense and wield Dragon, its defense stats will be 10 or 20% higher.) Potentially there should be a cap on this (10 or so levels above requirement) where it is about 75% as effective as the next tier of equipment. Essentially, moving to the next tier of equipment would be something that you don't need to do right as soon as you hit the required level, but once you start exceeding the requirement it becomes more and more drastic of a change. With Ranged and Magic, your skill level would influence both the Damage and Accuracy of your weaponry, but with melee it would be split between Attack and Strength for Accuracy/Damage. This way, there is a visible influence--but it is easier for the majority of players to understand, more drastic between levels, and eases the gradient between equipment tiers.

 

 

I think there doesn't need to be any particularly massive changes to the abilities system, it's rather nice at it is. More and more abilities are going to be added over time, which means that the system has plenty of room to grow and adapt. Potentially, some balance changes or added effects for some of the more lackluster abilities would be the best way to make it better right now. Someone made a list a few months back showing the most effective Threshold and Ultimate abilities--at the moment some are just more powerful than others. The difference in effect they have (single massive hit, multiple smaller hits, overall damage boost for a certain amount of time) makes some more useful in certain situations, but the lack of balanced damage output between them just makes some Ultimates better in every possible situation.

 

The EoC is, overall, a very very good change--it's something we've needed for a long time. It just needs to be balanced and altered slightly, not removed completely. Some of the changes that have been made to it haven't really helped it overall, but I think that it's slowly getting closer and closer to that eventual balanced state. We just need to keep up the constant supply of feedback so that we can help get it there that much faster.

 

It's nowhere near the monstrosity that some folks like to make it out to be.

[Miss Lioness]

That post should be added to the thread we should be posting @ rsof...

[Alg]

It might make more sense to switch the bonuses in point 2: 2h weapons have the crushing power to get past armor but aren't too fast, DW doesn't have the same raw power but it makes up for it with speed, and so would be good against something without armor.

[Binary Mage]

It might make more sense to switch the bonuses in point 2: 2h weapons have the crushing power to get past armor but aren't too fast, DW doesn't have the same raw power but it makes up for it with speed, and so would be good against something without armor.

 

My logic was that dual wielding, like the Keris, would be more precise (allowing you to find breaks in their armor) while 2h weaponry is generally more brute-force raw strength. I agree that your idea makes more sense, though.

[constrictor]

It might make more sense to switch the bonuses in point 2: 2h weapons have the crushing power to get past armor but aren't too fast, DW doesn't have the same raw power but it makes up for it with speed, and so would be good against something without armor.

 

My logic was that dual wielding, like the Keris, would be more precise (allowing you to find breaks in their armor) while 2h weaponry is generally more brute-force raw strength. I agree that your idea makes more sense, though.

 

Additionally (I apologize if someone has said this already), if DW "realistically" is like the keris, more precise, blah blah, would it not be logical that DW attack/accuracy should be entirely (or nearly-so) based on Attack Level? And 2h on Strength Level?

 

If you play with the numbers some, this could ultimately create more room for how people do combat/more "pures" besides the current CMB 150 Pure that seems to be the only viable option.

 

E.G. If DW is accuracy/hits is primarily based on attack (maybe a ratio of like Attack:Strength | 70:30) and 2H is based primarily on strength (ratio vice-versa 30:70), the use of which weapons you use when, etc will be far more versatile.

 

I feel like I'm rambling, but yeah.

[Alg]

I feel like I'm rambling, but yeah.

This would be really cool.

[Miss Lioness]

With permissions of Q and Binary Mage, I would like to start with a preliminary outline to post on the RSOF that incorporates both of your posts. Of course I cannot post this out of name of TIF without permission from the admins, but it would be a good start to already make a decent constructive feedback.

[constrictor]

I feel like I'm rambling, but yeah.

This would be really cool.

 

Wwhat.

[Alg]

Wwhat.

The strength/2h thing. Just quoted that part to save space. Pls read, Jagex.

[Kimberly]

The conversation should never be looking back. Nostalgia is good, but it becomes an issue when looking back hinders your search for a solution.

 

The old addage, "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" exists for a reason. Would you call developers nostalgic for looking to the past to see where they failed or succeeded? So why would you do the same to the average player base?

 

I understand the ultimate point you're trying to make. I do. Some people take nostalgia too far. You have been staunchly opposed to those who are constantly negative and that can be a good thing. But what you, and many others like you need to be cautious of is not letting it blind you to reality in the same way it blinds the negative nancies/mancies.

 

In this particular case, it is a very valid concern that there might be some short-term alienation of their player base with these very violent changes. We see very little praise for how they tried to address power creep almost in one update; those are the sorts of changes that should be highlighted for those supporting this update the most. There has to be a reason, a strong reason, to make such violent changes - and it has to make sense to the community. If they say they're listening to player feedback, yet the change is almost nothing like we've seen recommended, then it is a bad reason. But more people would support addressing the power creep in preparation for future updates, which this was surely doing. From that new understanding, feedback would be better tailored to the vision that Jagex has for the game from it's community.

 

You just can't continually fight ignorance and bad reasoning with more ignorance and bad reasoning.