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Runescape Dying? [Discussion/Observation]


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#261
Ginger_Warrior
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The old DS doesn't play 3DS games. The 2DS does without the 3D-ness. It is admittedly quite confusing, especially when it's advertised as a system "like you've never seen before".

#262
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I direct your attention to my original point:

"Thing could change, but where we are now handheld and mobile are two distinct markets and even if they do overlap a bit I doubt there'd be much direct competition I mean Desktop vs Consoles overlaps and there isn't much in the way of big competition cause they are different play styles and thus audiences."

I recognise there is an overlap my point was they do not directly compete.
There is a distinct difference between 'avoiding competing' like you claimed I said and not directly competing like I said.
Your version implies intentional avoiding any overlap or conflict with titles for the other market, my version is that they do all their work on their market and do not pay attention to any overlap or conflict with the other market.

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#263
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@Ginger - okay, thanks for the clarification. :thumbup:

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#264
Ginger_Warrior
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Are you for real?

There is a distinct difference between 'avoiding competing' like you claimed I said and not directly competing like I said.
Your version implies intentional avoiding any overlap or conflict with titles for the other market, my version is that they do all their work on their market and do not pay attention to any overlap or conflict with the other market.

Two days after Nintendo unveiled the Bargain Bucket equivalent to a handheld games console they released only two years ago, are you honestly suggesting that Nintendo don't pay attention to (what you term) "overlapping" competition from iOS/Android games?

#265
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@Bly That is a lot of places you are associated with. :D

@Sy When applications, especially for gaming, became big for apple products, Nintendo suffered a bit of profit loss for a year or two. The audience type Nintendo and Jagex would seek isn't very different. Runescape is both a causal and hardcore (not sure if that's the right word) game, and Nintendo has a fan base but has always looked to causal gamers to assist; basically look at their gaming library. The only difference is that Nintendo does it's own hardware, Jagex would be using a windows or apple hardware. They may be in different markets, but due to tablets and handles being substitutions, for a consumer who owns both a iPad and Nintendo 3DS, Jagex is competing with Nintendo. Jagex having the intentions of going after causal type players and mobile players by way of mobile devices put them competition anyway, and being involved in that market means Jagex has to play attention to changes in their market and related markets. You CAN'T ignore substitute markets. If the price of soft drinks increase I'm more likely to drink water. That's important to Coke-Cola as I am substituting their product for something else because I can no longer afford to drink what they have.

@Kaida The pricing is probably more directed at iPods as the standard price is around $200-$300 for a new one. A iPod offers more utility than a 2DS, but if you are mainly looking to upgrade an on the go gaming device price matters a lot. And as far as I'm aware the 2DS will play DS games too.
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#266
Sy_Accursed
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@Ginger Yes.
The 2DS is still a handheld and it still plays only handheld games.
It's design looks far less portable than the 3DS, which moves away from the portable format a bit.
It isn't being particularly marketed at the audiences who play candy crush or angry birds or other such mobile gaming hits either, it's being aimed at 'new gamers' like little kids opposed to the young adults/adults with expensive gadgets that are bored on the train or waiting room or w/e mobile market primarily hits

If anything I'd say there is less overlap between their handheld market and the mobile market in the 2DS than in any of the other previous DS range.

@Polar certainly. Like I said from the start the markets do overlap to an extent and of course you have to react to the market as it evolves as a whole. I just don't think there's really any direct competition between the handheld and mobile markets, I mean it's not like you see Nintendo trying to upsell their device as better than a phone and you don't see phone/tablet stuff upselling as better than a handheld in the same way you see nintendo and vita trying to score points off each other or xbox and ps doing it.

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#267
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They aren't for people who want multimedia devices like that. But they are trying to turn causal gamers into gaming hardware owning players, even if just with a DS. The Vita (or PSP for a better example) was a handheld device that could have competed with Apple because that device was multimedia. Nintendo was both a good and bad example. As a gaming company competing for the same player type it runs for worry. But Nintendo strictly makes handles for games. Sony would have been a better example, but the Vita is really overlooked, so that would have been hard to compare.

On the issue of what Ginger said, I say the 2DS can be because if fits between a handheld and tablets. Young adults who game but don't want a 3DS is what this works for.
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#268
Doke
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It's pretty clear that RS is declining. I think whatever true fans are left just simply don't want to admit it. Obviously we've heard this before but now it's becoming evident. The sole reason Jagex is still profiting is because there are idiots spending $100 for 450 spins and who knows how much for runecoins.

This is pretty much due to the EOC. Sure, the EOC has done some good things for PVM but it can't be justified because there are wayyy too many drawbacks. Remember when Mod Mark said EOC would greatly benefit PVP players? What did it actually do? Killed just about every form of PVP in the game. Minigames, wild, duel arena, all pretty much dead. The EOC has limited RS to Skilling/PVM. The reason I don't play anymore is because I can no longer take a break from killing monsters/chopping trees. PVP has become non-existent. I got banned recently from the forums but I did manage to find a great quote from the EOC discussion.

If anything, now rs is ''the laughingstock of MMOs'', it's now a bad version of other MMO's. Not a unique game with awesome combat system. Now it's just like any other MMO with an action bar, but all you do is stand in one spot repeating your abilities in a cycle to dish out the most damage. It's not interesting or skill requiring.


This is why RS3 will never attract a significant amount of new players. While HTML5 and NIS both look nice, they are clearly poor compared to what other renowned MMOs offer. You have to look at it through the eyes of a new player. Why would anybody choose RS over the larger MMOs? Jagex thought it would be a good idea to try and follow the path of the bigger games but all they have done is make RS look like a joke to new players (especially today where PC gaming/modding has become so popular. graphics graphics graphics.)

And while microtransactions can bring in a ton of money short-term, it definitely draws potential players away. If I log into a game and see the option to purchase ANYTHING other than a membership, I'm getting the hell out and playing something else. The first thing that would come to my mind is, "ok, im at a disadvantage."

RS lost its niche and with that a huge percentage of its original playerbase. I honestly can't see RS making any progress with the EOC. They've dug themselves into a hole far too deep.
If the EOC was removed I could see the game begin to make a comeback, but that will probably never happen because they're just too stubborn over there at Jagex Studios

#269
Platinum_Myr
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It's pretty clear that RS is declining. I think whatever true fans are left just simply don't want to admit it. Obviously we've heard this before but now it's becoming evident. The sole reason Jagex is still profiting is because there are idiots spending $100 for 450 spins and who knows how much for runecoins.

This is pretty much due to the EOC. Sure, the EOC has done some good things for PVM but it can't be justified because there are wayyy too many drawbacks. Remember when Mod Mark said EOC would greatly benefit PVP players? What did it actually do? Killed just about every form of PVP in the game. Minigames, wild, duel arena, all pretty much dead. The EOC has limited RS to Skilling/PVM. The reason I don't play anymore is because I can no longer take a break from killing monsters/chopping trees. PVP has become non-existent. I got banned recently from the forums but I did manage to find a great quote from the EOC discussion.

If anything, now rs is ''the laughingstock of MMOs'', it's now a bad version of other MMO's. Not a unique game with awesome combat system. Now it's just like any other MMO with an action bar, but all you do is stand in one spot repeating your abilities in a cycle to dish out the most damage. It's not interesting or skill requiring.


This is why RS3 will never attract a significant amount of new players. While HTML5 and NIS both look nice, they are clearly poor compared to what other renowned MMOs offer. You have to look at it through the eyes of a new player. Why would anybody choose RS over the larger MMOs? Jagex thought it would be a good idea to try and follow the path of the bigger games but all they have done is make RS look like a joke to new players (especially today where PC gaming/modding has become so popular. graphics graphics graphics.)

And while microtransactions can bring in a ton of money short-term, it definitely draws potential players away. If I log into a game and see the option to purchase ANYTHING other than a membership, I'm getting the hell out and playing something else. The first thing that would come to my mind is, "ok, im at a disadvantage."

RS lost its niche and with that a huge percentage of its original playerbase. I honestly can't see RS making any progress with the EOC. They've dug themselves into a hole far too deep.
If the EOC was removed I could see the game begin to make a comeback, but that will probably never happen because they're just too stubborn over there at Jagex Studios


Runescape's history from classic has made it fairly entrenched as the laughing stock of MMOs compared to big budget games, and there is practically nothing Jagex could do to change that.

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#270
Doke
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Runescape's history from classic has made it fairly entrenched as the laughing stock of MMOs compared to big budget games, and there is practically nothing Jagex could do to change that.


Yes, you could argue that, but what Jagex was doing was definitely unique. Now you have a browser game running on java/html5 trying to emulate certain aspects of "better MMOs". To the outside eye its laughable and honestly I think it was a huge mistake and Jagex should've stuck with what they originally had. I think they knew that a major overhaul wasn't necessary but they figured following the track of big budget mmo's would be the key to major success. Unfortunately we're starting to see that it backfired.

#271
Yoko Kurama
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The number that I had stuck in my head about the amount of players at Runescape's peak was 1 million active subscribes and 9-10 million free players. I thought it was a suspect number but after googling some stuff, I have found some sites verifying it:

RuneScape hits 1 million subscribers, including free members 10 million players total.

That's a news story from 2007.

Perhaps that will clarify for some of you the decline that RS has experienced and make you appreciate the seriousness of it. This is no small matter. As I have said before, RS is not dying, but it has suffered a very severe decline.

#272
Doke
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And there are currently 537,395 subscribers. Keep in mind that thousands of them are only paying to play 2007. It's pretty bad

#273
ArtemisCatal
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And there are currently 537,395 subscribers. Keep in mind that thousands of them are only paying to play 2007. It's pretty bad


On the surface that looks horrible, but I don't think the number of actually *players* has fallen that much.
1) fewer bots and gold farmers
2) fewer people with multiple accounts (i.e. pures)

Will I hazard a guess the true decline in subscribing players, no. But I will say it's less than the gross numbers seem to indicate. Though with out argument it is a major decline in revenue from subscriptions even with the price increase.

#274
Yoko Kurama
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And there are currently 537,395 subscribers. Keep in mind that thousands of them are only paying to play 2007. It's pretty bad


On the surface that looks horrible, but I don't think the number of actually *players* has fallen that much.
1) fewer bots and gold farmers
2) fewer people with multiple accounts (i.e. pures)

Will I hazard a guess the true decline in subscribing players, no. But I will say it's less than the gross numbers seem to indicate. Though with out argument it is a major decline in revenue from subscriptions even with the price increase.


The decline is so large that I seriously doubt that all of that decline, or even most of it, can be accounted by simply pointing to bots. Not all of that decline is players, either, of course. But it does seem clear from various factors (the emptiness of people in worlds, at spots, etc.) that there has been a substantial decrease in the human population.

#275
ilovecuttingyews
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In 2006 I took a walk around all of W7 and counted the number if bots vs humans. The world was approx 66% bots. Granted, F2P had far more bots than P2P at the time due to a number of reasons, but the massive decline in F2P bots is a major factor in the decline of the F2P 'player' numbers.

#276
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Yeah Doke it's painful :(

you nostalgia you die.
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#277
God Of Lego
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I think the playerbase is dropping at an average of 350-400 a day. I am not 100% on that though.

Thats without updates that push people over the edge to quit.

Bots is a lame excuse imo.

#278
X3EN
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I would advise people to look at the broader picture. MMO (especially MMORPG) has become the universally despised video game genre.

The old and successful MMOs are dying out. Many have moved to F2P/microtransactions (or combined). Still, the future is clear: slow agony, long and painful death, no matter how many painkillers (a.k.a. XP/SP/GP runes, limited vanity offers etc etc) are used before the final demise. To view them as anything else but rapidly deteriorating (failing) isolated ecosystems would be very short-sighted.

On the other hand, newly released MMOs show troubling trends: overcrowded on release, yet deserted after first nightfall. Naturally, AAA titles manage to last a year or two before succumbing to the aforementioned omnipresent plague. MMO players can rest easy (for now), as each victim is replaced by a new, different MMO.
Still, the trend is obvious. People do not like MMOs. They do not want to play MMOs.

Yes, that means they do not want to play ANY MMOs and no MMO will be successful in a market that despises them.



I assume some people will definitely object, describing what a MMO they would play would be like. The question you should ask yourself is "Would I play a deserted MMO?".

Players never ask themselves that question. When they see a deserted MMO, they LEAVE. EVERY [bleep]ing TIME.

And since all those new MMOs become deserted after first nightfall...


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#279
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Bots is a lame excuse imo.


Blaming it entirely on bots and entirely on the death of the game are equally lame.

Really all that's being done now is a rehash of a tired point that offers no new insight to the problem. It's not ignorance or denial as you or Yoko Kurama seem to be implying. Anyone who has been around for a sizable chunk of time has seen both things happen in the game.

Everyone knows its serious. Some just hope that it can be turned around.

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#280
Yoko Kurama
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Blaming it entirely on bots and entirely on the death of the game are equally lame.

Really all that's being done now is a rehash of a tired point that offers no new insight to the problem. It's not ignorance or denial as you or Yoko Kurama seem to be implying. Anyone who has been around for a sizable chunk of time has seen both things happen in the game.

Everyone knows its serious. Some just hope that it can be turned around.


Well some people do seem to be denying that the RS has suffered a severe decline and they also seem hesitant to acknowledge that it is in a period of decline. They seem to be suggesting, "well, it's not really that bad", or "well, it was probably mostly bots anyways."

As for this trend being turning around, sure, that'd be a nice thing.

----------


On a related note, how is WoW doing these days, in terms of members, subscriptions and micro-transactions?




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