25-September-2013 - Runescape Bonds

[NukeMarine]

Been running a poll on the RSOF [qfc]345-346-230-65166061[/qfc] asking how much gp players would pay for 1 month of membership. Not too much noise and the results seem centered around 15 million gp. I would ignore the 500 mill and the 666 trill for obvious reasons. The other votes seem legitimate though about three voiced their opinion that if it involved bonds then they'd still opt out. The none votes seem odd to me considering there are quite a few aspects of the game now that require payment of gp such as armor repair and construction however I included them.

 

Results as of 39 votes

 

None - 6

5 mill - 4

10 mill - 6

15 mill - 12

20 mill - 2

25 mill - 1

30 mill - 4

50 mill - 1

100 mill - 1

500 mill - 1

666 tril - 1

[Sy_Accursed]

Whilst the idea of membership for gp with no bonds (aka real world money) involved does sound appealing as a player it is an utterly ridiculous concept in terms of application to the game.

 

Membership fees are what pays for staff and servers and everything needed to run the game, they can't just let people have membership with 0 income for them. I mean it could wipe hundreds of thousands off their accounts overnight if you could get members for pure gp with no irl cash going to Jagex at all.

[God Of Lego]

 

 

 

 

But is it really 'corruption'?

 

Or is someone viewing thing as a business exactly what a game like Runescape needs to survive?

It's all very well making an amazing game but if the business is not viable it will flicker out and die as quickly as it was made.

 

I'd much rather have an amazing game with longevity that has a few RWT-esque features I'm not a huge fan of than one that is a forgetten relic because it wasn't financially viable.

It depends where the corruption is.

 

If Mod MMG was getting a bigger paycheck each time he were to increase income dramaticaly then he may get the idea "Never mind the game, I want my bonus'"

 

On the other hand, if the additional profits were rolled back into the game, then we'd have to consider the good it does for the game via more resources and a bigger budget. One could argue that funding such investments provides significant benefits to RuneScape's long-term health, easily outweighing the moral cost of allowing some players to trade money for time--which they could already do.

 

People made the same argument for SoF, which has been out for what, 18 months now? And I am yet to see an increase in the quality of updates we have received.

 

I'd say the quality of updates has increased immensely this past year; quest in particular are much richer rather than just cheesy do this do that do the other.

A lot of graphics have been seriously ramped out quality wise too.

 

Plus we know from their last financial reports Jagex posted their best profit for a while, but then reinvested all of that profit and a substantial amount more in to the business; so we can categorically say they are not padding their pay cheques they are pumping money in to growing the teams and the studio as a whole.

 

The only quality increase I've seen is graphical and the new audio. Quests have lacked dramaticaly the last few years, mostly just pumped with lore as a filler for lack of quest like activity within then. And theres been very little big expansions. Even RS3 wasn't that big. BoL was nothing major. The fact HTML5 isn't ready kind of ruined the hype. But it was mainly for marketing. Other than all that. I would say the most exciting peice of content i've seen in the recent years were PoP.

 

The profit they make is nothing to do with it. Its what they decide to do with that money thats the problem. As long as it covers their current paychecks. Unless they are paying for voice actors, renting out orchastras, buying tanks... That money is not really needed (productions wise, not profit). And I know alot of ingame characters are in fact voiced by J-Mods so the main expense is their audio on that front.

 

They let go of countless employees.

 

I would say internaly they are lacking a strong game plan and vision concidering all the delays and cuts we have had this year. If I were to be in Mod Marks position. I certainly wont hype a skill 1 year before its even in production. Stuff like that just makes people lack faith.

[ilovecuttingyews]

They let go of countless employees.

Wasn't it 5% total, from mostly fringe activities such as experimental projects and Transformers? Hardly worth the term "countless" which is indented to invoke 'more than is worth counting' in the minds of people.

[Sy_Accursed]

The trouble with claiming quests are 'pumped up' with lore because they lack 'quest like' content is the fundamental purpose of quests IS to tell the story and provide that lore. It may not be to everyone's taste as they prefer the fighting or w/e but the primary purpose of a quest is to tell a story so having more actual meaningful lore in them is better content for those of us who actually care about the game and play quests for the story not just for the rewards.

 

And the lore we've been getting has been of a much better quality, they've rounded off a lot of loose ends and discrepancies and tied things together and made a great effort to turn often garbled messes in to a coherent narrative of Gielinor as a world. YOUR personal taste of updates does not equate to whether or not they are quality updates.

 

The fact you say Rs3 was not a big update shows how little you really understand the development of such a game, yes on the surface it did very little, but that does not make it a small update. It involved a heap of back end changes and a much more coding intensive interface.

 

Also I fail to see your point of 'profits don't matter' - the entire point here was 'corruption' by padding pay cheques from these new revenues streams. The fact they are declaring much bigger profits shows that the new revenue has categorically NOT gone in to padding pay cheques and the fact that profit was then reinvested in to the company for growth shows again they are NOT feeding shareholders whims with profit makers they are using money to make the studio bigger and better.

 

And as TradeMe pointed out there let go a very minor number of employees, all of whom were from fringe things - failed projects where the staff were no longer of use and some from customer services.

[God Of Lego]

RS3 was not that big... Sure we got a new interface system. But apart from that. All it was is battle of lumbridge. Thats just like any old regular content. If HTML5 was ready and both skills were tied in. I would of concidered it decent to market off as RS3. I fully understand the development process

 

As for lore, yeah I agree its gotten stronger. But a quest isn't always for story telling. I feel theres been to much of story telling lately. If you want a story told. You read a book or watch a movie. A quest is where you adventure, explore, fight, and do great things. Not talk to bunch of people and having everything handed too you. Im ok with things such as the recent black knights rework as long as its just to set the foundations for a greater experience. As for rewards. Tell me where I mentioned they suck. I couldn't care less about rewards. I just feel maybe we should quest more as well as having strong dialog. If they worked a WGS level along with the recent lore increases. Quests would actually be great in all aspects that it could be.

 

And its still letting off employees. I didnt make it out to be a big deal. Maybe I shouldn't off used countless. I just couldn't be bothered to count up the figures.

 

I've also explained the profit area. The current profit is used very little on RuneScape. Theres not been a massive increase in developers and strong long lasting content for years. This years infact been one of the worst (in my personal opinion) My point was, if the employees are paid. Then the content comming in should be the same as every other year. This year I've seen much less content and lots of delays. To me that doesn't show they are investing back into the game too much. I've never seen proof of that.

 

 

As for the corruption. I only said this IF they got bonus' for increasing profit. I never claimed it to be the case. If Mod MMG got an extra 20k a year for boosting revenue. Then its a good chance that maybe hes doing these things to get bonus. It was a theory not a fact.

[Saradomin_Mage]

And as TradeMe pointed out there let go a very minor number of employees, all of whom were from fringe things - failed projects where the staff were no longer of use and some from customer services.

Two of the JMod clones on the Battlefield have outlasted their real life counterparts at Jagex. Just thought you'd like to know :P

[God Of Lego]

 

And as TradeMe pointed out there let go a very minor number of employees, all of whom were from fringe things - failed projects where the staff were no longer of use and some from customer services.

Two of the JMod clones on the Battlefield have outlasted their real life counterparts at Jagex. Just thought you'd like to know :P

 

O lawd, But if Mod Emilee don't come back. Its safe to say the forums will stay in the dark ages. :'( (dramatic I know)

[Sy_Accursed]

 

And as TradeMe pointed out there let go a very minor number of employees, all of whom were from fringe things - failed projects where the staff were no longer of use and some from customer services.

Two of the JMod clones on the Battlefield have outlasted their real life counterparts at Jagex. Just thought you'd like to know :P

 

I wasn't aware any of the bigger name jmods had gone recently, other than Mod Phoenix.

 

Who is it who has left?

[Saradomin_Mage]

 

 

And as TradeMe pointed out there let go a very minor number of employees, all of whom were from fringe things - failed projects where the staff were no longer of use and some from customer services.

Two of the JMod clones on the Battlefield have outlasted their real life counterparts at Jagex. Just thought you'd like to know :P

 

I wasn't aware any of the bigger name jmods had gone recently, other than Mod Phoenix.

 

Who is it who has left?

 

Sabre and Daezhun are out. Also various other CM mods afaik.

[Alg]

Sabre and Daezhun are out. Also various other CM mods afaik.

That team has always had a high turnover rate, if I'm not mistaken.

[Saradomin_Mage]

 

Sabre and Daezhun are out. Also various other CM mods afaik.

That team has always had a high turnover rate, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Yeah, in some article from Develop Online it was mentioned that Jagex was doing a few rounds of layoffs, mostly from the CM side.

[Golvellius]

Whilst the idea of membership for gp with no bonds (aka real world money) involved does sound appealing as a player it is an utterly ridiculous concept in terms of application to the game.

 

Membership fees are what pays for staff and servers and everything needed to run the game, they can't just let people have membership with 0 income for them. I mean it could wipe hundreds of thousands off their accounts overnight if you could get members for pure gp with no irl cash going to Jagex at all.

Somebody is paying $$ for bonds.

It's not something for nothing, in fact I think jagex will make more money this way.

Me giving you a free month of members for ~20mil, and Jagex $8 is win-win for everybody.

I'd rather buyt 20mil than spend a month laboring for it, you'd rather get $8 than spend a month laboring for it, and Jagex get $8 which is probably a little more than what you were paying with membership discounts.

This update could bring in more legitimate players from Iran/india/vietnam and other low wage 3rd world countries.

[Howlin0001]

What's the going price for a bond atm?

[Sy_Accursed]

Last I heard 6-7m was still roughly the going rate.

[God Of Lego]

I like how Jagex can rush to give people paragraphs are bullshit to players on the forums about bonds. But when it comes to a little information about delayed updates (Quest, BoL) its rare and usually on twitter.

[helring]

I like how Jagex can rush to give people paragraphs are bullshit to players on the forums about bonds. But when it comes to a little information about delayed updates (Quest, BoL) its rare and usually on twitter.

 

How was Bol delayed? all they'd said previously was that it would be ending this week. And, I think the first notice we had about the Dwarf Quest being this week and not last week was because a J mod posted it in the future update forum.

[constrictor]

Here's my problem:

 

So 1 bond = 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8Spins/150RC = 5$

Correct?

 

Ok, so removing the step of buying the bond/the worth of the bond in $ terms, then that means 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8spins/150RC.

 

So let's say I have 10$. 10$ would normally buy me 2 bonds, which I could then turn into a months membership, 16 spins, 300 RC, or 6-8m gp.

 

So now, let's say I decide to buy my gp illegally at, say .35$/m (which is generous, seeing as it can go as low as .20$/m) - my 10$ will give me a total of 28.57m.

So then I decide, hey let's use this 28.57m and buy 2 bonds for a membership. SO, then I spend 12-14m on buying 2 bonds and buy myself a membership. I then now have a month of P2P as well as about 14m leftover.

With the minor risk of being banned.

Then in addition to this, this entire update was Jagex stating that they can't ban everyone who RWT so they're just trying to move the market from, insecure sources to secure sources (themselves). However, in doing so they just made it MORE beneficial (i.e. now they can get P2P way cheaper then before) for players to purchase the money "under the table" because it's cheaper.

 

Technically, JaGEX just decreased their membership worth from ~8$/month to 2.8$/month (if bought from unofficial sources). Bonds would have to more than double in price before it'd become fiscally-wise to buy P2P directly from JaGEX.

 

In my honest opinion, though this update will probably still get JaGEX money (since due to supply and demand the bonds will go up/down in price as a result of their oversupply or undersupply), it does not in anyway "discourage" RWT with unofficial sites (aka sites other than JaGEX), it more likely even encourages it.

[Sy_Accursed]

Here's my problem:

 

So 1 bond = 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8Spins/150RC = 5$

Correct?

 

Ok, so removing the step of buying the bond/the worth of the bond in $ terms, then that means 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8spins/150RC.

 

So let's say I have 10$. 10$ would normally buy me 2 bonds, which I could then turn into a months membership, 16 spins, 300 RC, or 6-8m gp.

 

So now, let's say I decide to buy my gp illegally at, say .35$/m (which is generous, seeing as it can go as low as .20$/m) - my 10$ will give me a total of 28.57m.

So then I decide, hey let's use this 28.57m and buy 2 bonds for a membership. SO, then I spend 12-14m on buying 2 bonds and buy myself a membership. I then now have a month of P2P as well as about 14m leftover.

Then in addition to this, this entire update was Jagex stating that they can't ban everyone who RWT so they're just trying to move the market fro, insecure sources to secure sources (themselves). However, in doing so they just made it MORE beneficial for players to purchase the money "under the table" because it's cheaper.

 

Technically, JaGEX just decreased their membership worth from ~8$/month to 2.8$/month (if bought from unofficial sources).

The trouble with your last little conclusion there:

Jagex still gets the £3/$5/€4.25 for the bond regardless of where you got the gold so there is no reduction in value.

If no-one buys the bonds for cash no-one can buy them for gp.

 

Other than that it is what most of us have been saying all along, te way this could work, however, is some people may prefer to use legit sources which would weaken the market a bit and if there IS a legit source they can be harsher to those who subvert it for their own gain (eg using non-legit sources).

 

Like someone else said I wouldn't be surprised if the 40% jagex claims use rwt sources start finding gold removals/temp bans and eventually permanent bans landing on their door steps in the coming months, which is where the real impact would lay. If people know Jagex are acting upon people going the non-legit way it'll drive trade to the legit method of doing things; kinda like how I hear lately most bot client forums are filled with rants of being banned using their foolproof bots coinciding nicely with the lower numbers of bots seen in-game.

[constrictor]

 

Here's my problem:

 

So 1 bond = 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8Spins/150RC = 5$

Correct?

 

Ok, so removing the step of buying the bond/the worth of the bond in $ terms, then that means 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8spins/150RC.

 

So let's say I have 10$. 10$ would normally buy me 2 bonds, which I could then turn into a months membership, 16 spins, 300 RC, or 6-8m gp.

 

So now, let's say I decide to buy my gp illegally at, say .35$/m (which is generous, seeing as it can go as low as .20$/m) - my 10$ will give me a total of 28.57m.

So then I decide, hey let's use this 28.57m and buy 2 bonds for a membership. SO, then I spend 12-14m on buying 2 bonds and buy myself a membership. I then now have a month of P2P as well as about 14m leftover.

Then in addition to this, this entire update was Jagex stating that they can't ban everyone who RWT so they're just trying to move the market fro, insecure sources to secure sources (themselves). However, in doing so they just made it MORE beneficial for players to purchase the money "under the table" because it's cheaper.

 

Technically, JaGEX just decreased their membership worth from ~8$/month to 2.8$/month (if bought from unofficial sources).

The trouble with your last little conclusion there:

Jagex still gets the £3/$5/€4.25 for the bond regardless of where you got the gold so there is no reduction in value.

If no-one buys the bonds for cash no-one can buy them for gp.

 

 

Added that when I reedited my post - my apologies. Was still thinking through my entire point. Haha.

[God Of Lego]

 

I like how Jagex can rush to give people paragraphs are bullshit to players on the forums about bonds. But when it comes to a little information about delayed updates (Quest, BoL) its rare and usually on twitter.

 

How was Bol delayed? all they'd said previously was that it would be ending this week. And, I think the first notice we had about the Dwarf Quest being this week and not last week was because a J mod posted it in the future update forum.

 

I read on the forums its supposed to of been today, now its wednesday. :) BoL was only to last 70 days also

[God Of Lego]

 

 

Here's my problem:

 

So 1 bond = 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8Spins/150RC = 5$

Correct?

 

Ok, so removing the step of buying the bond/the worth of the bond in $ terms, then that means 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8spins/150RC.

 

So let's say I have 10$. 10$ would normally buy me 2 bonds, which I could then turn into a months membership, 16 spins, 300 RC, or 6-8m gp.

 

So now, let's say I decide to buy my gp illegally at, say .35$/m (which is generous, seeing as it can go as low as .20$/m) - my 10$ will give me a total of 28.57m.

So then I decide, hey let's use this 28.57m and buy 2 bonds for a membership. SO, then I spend 12-14m on buying 2 bonds and buy myself a membership. I then now have a month of P2P as well as about 14m leftover.

Then in addition to this, this entire update was Jagex stating that they can't ban everyone who RWT so they're just trying to move the market fro, insecure sources to secure sources (themselves). However, in doing so they just made it MORE beneficial for players to purchase the money "under the table" because it's cheaper.

 

Technically, JaGEX just decreased their membership worth from ~8$/month to 2.8$/month (if bought from unofficial sources).

The trouble with your last little conclusion there:

Jagex still gets the £3/$5/€4.25 for the bond regardless of where you got the gold so there is no reduction in value.

If no-one buys the bonds for cash no-one can buy them for gp.

 

 

Added that when I reedited my post - my apologies. Was still thinking through my entire point. Haha.

 

 

Yes you personal can buy membership cheaper now. But theres going to be someone who needs to be the middle man. LIkely some person who wants to buy gold and is scared to use GoldFamers so they use a bond and do it "Legit" Jagex still gets the cash though. But also do RWTs.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

I like how Jagex can rush to give people paragraphs are bullshit to players on the forums about bonds. But when it comes to a little information about delayed updates (Quest, BoL) its rare and usually on twitter.

How was Bol delayed? all they'd said previously was that it would be ending this week. And, I think the first notice we had about the Dwarf Quest being this week and not last week was because a J mod posted it in the future update forum.

 

I read on the forums its supposed to of been today, now its wednesday. :) BoL was only to last 70 days also

 

It was never 'supposed' to be anything.

 

When it launched on the 22nd of July we were told it was a 10 week event, but we were never given any solid end date.

On the basis of the weekly resets midnight 29th Sept made sense, as did some point on the 30th for a more exact 70 days so we naturally assumed the end would be somewhere around this point.

 

The ONLY official information we have EVER been given for bol ending was firstly last weeks BTS video meaning yes it would be this weeks game update and in the past day or 2 in we have been told Wednesday is the aim.

 

Ending later than we assumed does not constitute a delay, a delay is when an update is postponed from when we were officially informed to expect it.

[God Of Lego]

 

 

 

I like how Jagex can rush to give people paragraphs are bullshit to players on the forums about bonds. But when it comes to a little information about delayed updates (Quest, BoL) its rare and usually on twitter.

How was Bol delayed? all they'd said previously was that it would be ending this week. And, I think the first notice we had about the Dwarf Quest being this week and not last week was because a J mod posted it in the future update forum.

 

I read on the forums its supposed to of been today, now its wednesday. :) BoL was only to last 70 days also

 

It was never 'supposed' to be anything.

 

When it launched on the 22nd of July we were told it was a 10 week event, but we were never given any solid end date.

On the basis of the weekly resets midnight 29th Sept made sense, as did some point on the 30th for a more exact 70 days so we naturally assumed the end would be somewhere around this point.

 

The ONLY official information we have EVER been given for bol ending was firstly last weeks BTS video meaning yes it would be this weeks game update and in the past day or 2 in we have been told Wednesday is the aim.

 

Ending later than we assumed does not constitute a delay, a delay is when an update is postponed from when we were officially informed to expect it.

 

Chill, Theres 2 updates mixed in one. The Dwarf was a delay and its obviously set back BoL with it. Wednesday is not a day they prefer to update on. But due to dwarf its likely pushed back to wednesday. Due to resets of weekly activities it were likely to be monday as the end.

[constrictor]

 

 

 

Here's my problem:

 

So 1 bond = 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8Spins/150RC = 5$

Correct?

 

Ok, so removing the step of buying the bond/the worth of the bond in $ terms, then that means 6-8m gp = 14 days P2P/8spins/150RC.

 

So let's say I have 10$. 10$ would normally buy me 2 bonds, which I could then turn into a months membership, 16 spins, 300 RC, or 6-8m gp.

 

So now, let's say I decide to buy my gp illegally at, say .35$/m (which is generous, seeing as it can go as low as .20$/m) - my 10$ will give me a total of 28.57m.

So then I decide, hey let's use this 28.57m and buy 2 bonds for a membership. SO, then I spend 12-14m on buying 2 bonds and buy myself a membership. I then now have a month of P2P as well as about 14m leftover.

Then in addition to this, this entire update was Jagex stating that they can't ban everyone who RWT so they're just trying to move the market fro, insecure sources to secure sources (themselves). However, in doing so they just made it MORE beneficial for players to purchase the money "under the table" because it's cheaper.

 

Technically, JaGEX just decreased their membership worth from ~8$/month to 2.8$/month (if bought from unofficial sources).

The trouble with your last little conclusion there:

Jagex still gets the £3/$5/€4.25 for the bond regardless of where you got the gold so there is no reduction in value.

If no-one buys the bonds for cash no-one can buy them for gp.

 

 

Added that when I reedited my post - my apologies. Was still thinking through my entire point. Haha.

 

 

Yes you personal can buy membership cheaper now. But theres going to be someone who needs to be the middle man. LIkely some person who wants to buy gold and is scared to use GoldFamers so they use a bond and do it "Legit" Jagex still gets the cash though. But also do RWTs.

 

 

Well Yes, that is what I am saying. Somewhere on the line a bond is being purchased from JaGEX, and so JaGEX is getting their money's worth - the fact that you can buy P2P cheaper (more than half the price) from GoldFarmers, as a result of this update, almost seems like JaGEX is HELPING GoldFarmers. Consequently, I would not be very surprised if the prices of Bonds double or triple by the end of October.

Thankfully, then the 5$ for a Bond will be much more worth it - and thus discouraging RWT'ing at that point.