25-September-2013 - Runescape Bonds

[Urza285]

There is a fairly good cycle going on with bonds:

 

- Rich guy gets to buy bonds with real life currency and buy gold in game via bond distribution.

 

- Poor guy gets to buy bonds with gold from the rich guy to continue membership using some dedicated play time for renewing membership.

 

Rich guy = Gold buyer

 

Poor guy = gold seller

 

The only thing that isn't barring the success for gold farmers are the efforts that prevent bots from running. And even that is quite a feat for bot developers to overcome.

 

The players will soon lower the $/gp cost using bonds and things will start getting rough for gold sellers.

[Ginger_Warrior]

 

A value which is of basically no value in today's world.

 

If you said this 5 years ago, I would have agreed, but times change, and so must people, so must company, or else they'd just end up an empty husk of theirs.

 

It may not be a desirable outcome, but if it means jagex keeping the game around longer, so be it.

There's no logical basis for any of that; you're false philosophizing about "values" and "survival".

 

Profits have fallen in recent years, but they're are still profiting by several million, and their turnover continues to rise. Even from a pragmatic point of view, you can't seriously suggest this update has been released to fill holes in a capsizing ship. The ship's barely started leaking yet!

 

Furthermore, companies can (and do) conduct business whilst keeping themselves subscribed to a set of values. What you're saying is akin to suggesting that an organic food company filling their products with GM crops would be nothing more than an "undesirable outcome". Something like that would go against everything the company purportedly stands for, and would therefore be unacceptable, wouldn't you agree?

 

Jagex, throughout its infancy, was absolutely adamant in its insistence that RuneScape should never be a game where the 'real-life' wealth of a player could be a factor in deciding which players have a competitive advantage over others. It was that principle which drove them to fight RWT and gold farming so robustly in RuneScape, while not offering a direct method of purchasing RS gold in-house. It was a core principle which some feel has been eroded over the course of several updates, and you're dismissing their concerns out-of-hand.

[Kimberly]

But what if it's true?

If RuneScape has died, what will we do?

 

And what will we do?

'bout all the fans who have RS tattoos?

They'll have them removed.

They'll have to lazer off their rune full helm tattoos.

 

Even from a pragmatic point of view, you can't seriously suggest this update has been released to fill holes in a capsizing ship. The ship's barely started leaking yet!

A slow and steady leak is equally problematic and demands equal attention. I think it's a bit unfair to brush off those concerns every bit as much as those who might be ignoring the old stance that Runescape used to maintain before looking for ways to boost revenue.

[Mercifull]

Anyone else find it strange that the big YouTubers who were SO against RWT, SoF, and micro-transactions are praising this update? It's like they did a complete 180...

To generalise (which I don't like doing but I'm going to say it anyway) aren't all the big YouTbe "celebs" either on Jagex payroll now or have always been about begging for donations so this isn't a surprise.

[chenw]

 

 

A value which is of basically no value in today's world.

 

If you said this 5 years ago, I would have agreed, but times change, and so must people, so must company, or else they'd just end up an empty husk of theirs.

 

It may not be a desirable outcome, but if it means jagex keeping the game around longer, so be it.

There's no logical basis for any of that; you're false philosophizing about "values" and "survival".

 

Profits have fallen in recent years, but they're are still profiting by several million, and their turnover continues to rise. Even from a pragmatic point of view, you can't seriously suggest this update has been released to fill holes in a capsizing ship. The ship's barely started leaking yet!

 

Furthermore, companies can (and do) conduct business whilst keeping themselves subscribed to a set of values. What you're saying is akin to suggesting that an organic food company filling their products with GM crops would be nothing more than an "undesirable outcome". Something like that would go against everything the company purportedly stands for, and would therefore be unacceptable, wouldn't you agree?

 

Jagex, throughout its infancy, was absolutely adamant in its insistence that RuneScape should never be a game where the 'real-life' wealth of a player could be a factor in deciding which players have a competitive advantage over others. It was that principle which drove them to fight RWT and gold farming so robustly in RuneScape, while not offering a direct method of purchasing RS gold in-house. It was a core principle which some feel has been eroded over the course of several updates, and you're dismissing their concerns out-of-hand.

 

 

 

Concerns or not, you have also missed one very crucial point: Change in management.

 

Those who worked in Jagex back when they decided that they want to fight RWT and botting measures vehemently are, to put it mildly, no longer in charge of Jagex. Most of the people who have enforced those policies and philosophies before are no longer there to support what they have built. Now we have completely different people running the same company with completely different opinions.

 

In the light of this, I find it that, while one can certainly hope the original philosophies are respected and upheld, I find absolutely no reason to expect them uphold something they didn't

 

If today, had it not been MMG announcing this, but Andrew, I am sure that the reaction to this particular update would be far more negative, because he started the whole policy, and yet he was the one who backed out. But it's MMG, he wasn't the one who started the whole anti-RWT thing (at least not to my knowledge).

[Ginger_Warrior]

I understand perfectly well how the change of policy came into effect, and I'm also perfectly well aware of how changes in management result in changes to business philosophy and priorities. You seemed to suggest to Spork, however, that his concerns effectively "don't matter" any more. I disagree.

 

The promise of a level playing field was a big draw to the game. Effectively, competition between players was down to a better knowledge of training methods, and investing more time into the game. The more Jagex integrates things like bonds, spins, and items in Solomon's store which aren't purely cosmetic (etc.) into the game, the further away the game comes from being "fair". Of course, there are some who would be fine taking advantage of this situation, but there's a great many more players who won't.

 

The comparison to the organic food company was to suggest that spoiling something your customers find attractive about your product is poor business sense, regardless of how well (or not) you're doing otherwise.

[Sy_Accursed]

I understand perfectly well how the change of policy came into effect, and I'm also perfectly well aware of how changes in management result in changes to business philosophy and priorities. You seemed to suggest to Spork, however, that his concerns effectively "don't matter" any more. I disagree.

 

The promise of a level playing field was a big draw to the game. Effectively, competition between players was down to a better knowledge of training methods, and investing more time into the game. The more Jagex integrates things like bonds, spins, and items in Solomon's store which aren't purely cosmetic (etc.) into the game, the further away the game comes from being "fair". Of course, there are some who would be fine taking advantage of this situation, but there's a great many more players who won't.

 

The comparison to the organic food company was to suggest that spoiling something your customers find attractive about your product is poor business sense, regardless of how well (or not) you're doing otherwise.

But the claim in question here has not been forefront on the website for the better part of a decade now and it was entirely removed what 2 or 3 yrs ago now.

 

So simply put it is not a claim that has been made or used to attract people for many, many years. So aside from a few a small subsection who has been around since time began its not such a big deal to most. Heck I'd even go so far as to say for those who do recall that claim vividly it wasn't one of the 'main attractions' of the game. It certainly wasn't for me.

 

And in this day and age it is a simple fact of the gaming industry that things work this way. Games use microtransactions, why should Jagex shy away from it and potentially bankrupt themselves in doing so just to appease people who cannot deal with the fact the world at large has evolved and this is the way the gaming industry on every platform, genre and device works now.

[Blofeld]

Theres a poll on whether people have RWT'd before this week on Reddit at the moment and it has some interesting results: currently 32% of the 916 voters say that they have. Of course an open poll on a place like reddit , and with a relatively small sample size means its not totally accurate . But 32% is still quite high and suggests Jagex 40-50% statistic might not be too much of an exxageration.

[Ambler]

For all we know, that 40-50% thing could include all of the 1-off pm spambots, though I doubt it :p

[Blofeld]

Well given the statistic is for 'active' players, they wouldnt be counted. Also if they were counting the accounts already banned this year for Gold farminging-1.1million according to them. The % would be way higher

[Syd]

Seeing how this is pretty similar to the system RIFT is running with their RIFT store exhange items (REX), I see this thing way more positive than negative thing considering the future of the game. Giving people chance to get all benefits within the game without paying any real money is a very good way to lure in more players. Technically RIFT is called 100% f2p game with system like this and if nothing else this gives more reasoning for someone to call RuneScape free-to-play again. Knowing you can just make some ingame cash to buy yourself membership.

Good stuff Jagex.

[God Of Lego]

Im interested to see how it will slow down the decline in membership loss. We will have to wait a month to see any real effects though. Due to the fact people who quits membership needs to run out. But even now its pretty unstable. I cannot see bonds holding enough value long term to be worth choosing over RWTs.

[Issildur]

ITT: People cite dying or less successful games than Runescape as reasoning why this is a good idea.

 

It isn't: I posted this on Reddit, but I'll post it here as well.

 

They use these sites because they are not being punished. Banning or even warning people who RWT would more than adequately address the issue.

I'm sure that your marketing team has more information than I have, but anecdotally, Runescape isn't fun in the same way other games are fun: It's grindy, repetitive, and boring. The enjoyment from the game comes from a sense of personal achievement, and I don't think allowing people to circumvent that is good for the game's long term health.

[ixfd64]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, bonds allow many players to experience the full game without paying real money, considering that making GP is a lot easier than it was many years ago. For example, they can be very useful to children whose parents who aren't comfortable with making online purchases. People who spent real money on membership could advance far faster than free players, but bonds greatly reduce this unfair advantage. Heck, even I'm considering buying a bond or two in the near future. :D

 

But at the same time, I feel that bonds devalue gameplay as anyone who has a job in real life can buy a bunch of bonds with real cash and get ridiculously rich in-game with almost no effort. I also don't see how bonds will fully stop RWT; players who are rich in the game can still make real money buy selling their gold or in-game items at lower rates. But then again, this probably doesn't make a big difference anymore as rule-breakers have been selling membership pins for ages.

 

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I feel the pros of bonds outweigh the cons. The MMORPG HoboWars employs a similar system in which players can buy donator packs (the RuneScape equivalent of membership) for in-game currency, and nobody has complained. I don't see why RuneScape can't benefit from the same system.

[Everyonedies]

Well I think I have had a feeling that RWTing would come to Runescape at some point before the game gets sold off to another company. First they way they have made bonds work is great. I about a month ago paid some real life money to purchase rune coins so i could buy the bank boosters. Had i just waited a month i could have bought bonds and got the extra bank spaces for free (well IRL money free). I have to give alot of credit to Jagex on this one they did something that was bound to happen but were able to do it in way that created the least amount of blow back from the players as possible.

 

** Side note @ those talking about historical Jagex vs current Jagex. I have played RS since the start and have seen the game change massively I highly doubt there at more then a handful of us that have played since early 2001. Back around late 2001 through the start of members and even up until RS2 there was a bit of a culture that while you many not be equal in real life on RS everyone started out the same and had to earn what they have. But back then there was not alot of 99s in anything no one was maxed. A new person could in just a few months get all the best equipment (rune plus dragon weapons) and be within 20 lvls of the best players in the game (lvl 70-80 combat stats). Now starting from scratch in order to be on par with the max players i would have to guess it would take about a year to gain enough wealth/ stats/ quests to be within 20 levels of max players. (im not talking about no lifing it either) casual play 1-3 hours a day total of 8 hours on the weekend so 13-20ish hours played per week. So i guess what im saying is that as a new player today the odds are already stacked against you in such a way that even if you dump an extra 20 bucks a week into the game to buy money its not going to help you make up the difference in lvls/quests/wealth(items) so fast that current high or mid-level players would see you as a threat or an issue. Just my 2 cents on that.

 

[Numismaster]

Illegal RWT (as stated in the rules) exists because there is a great demand for it.

 

 

Bonds alleviate this problem by benefiting three groups of people.

 

 

1. Lazy rich people buy bonds from Jagex to benefit themselves (instant gratification, i. e. easy gp).

 

2. Other (poorer or perhaps "smarter") players buy bonds with gp to benefit themselves (money saved on membership, etc.)

 

3. Jagex sells bonds at a rate above actual membership price to benefit themselves (increased revenue while potentially decreasing external RWT).

 

 

So it's a win-win-win! :thumbsup:

 

 

Casualties include:

 

Loss of integrity for the company (change of stance on RWT)

Loss of sense of personal achievement (other players can buy an unfair advantage)

Temporary instability of the economy (possibly reoccurring as new rich players buy more bonds)

 

 

If you can stomach the negatives, then this update really isn't that bad. I personally am quite pleased that my future membership may potentially be completely financed by other players who are willing to spend the extra cash. If their greed and impatience pays for my game-play, why should I be against that?

 

 

 

In other news:

 

 

 

Best option for the economy was to either remove gravestones or at least cut it down to 5 minutes max!

I agree. High end items NEVER leave the game with them.

At least make them 5 minutes max, and finally allow degradables to drop to other poeple.

 

Oh, you're at nex and your computer gets hit by lightning?

lol bye bye drygores, ascensions, torva, and pernix

 

 

 

 

Looks like that is going to change soon...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does this make bonds better?

[God Of Lego]

That post has nothing to do with bonds. They are stating they are working on item and gold sinks. We'll see how they are when they are introduced. So no it does not make bonds better.

[Blofeld]

Not sure if people have seen Mod Pips Dev blog yet

 

 

Its two days since Bonds launched and I wanted to give some thoughts and responses to questions that have been asked since. While conceptually simple, Bonds have quite wide reaching implications so its understandable players are still getting to grips with what it means for the game at large. Over the last couple of days I’ve read thousands of forum posts, and while there’s a lot of positive reactions, there are some concerns too, so I’ll do what I can to address those here.


“Bonds can’t defeat gold farmers if blackmarket gold is cheaper”
On the surface this seems logical, but it’s not actually correct. It's really important to understand that Bonds do not need to undercut RWT prices in order to hurt the business of gold farmers. The price of Bonds in RSGP is player-decided, so the price will settle at the comfortable value players are willing to trade for. It doesn't matter if that is not as good as gold farm RWT because it's still sating the demand that gold farmers serve.

Even if, to start with, Bonds only rob the RWT gold farmers of half their trade, that is still serious damage to their business operations. I don’t believe Bonds should directly compete with gold farmer prices, as that isn’t necessary to still undermine their business, marginalise their place in the market and make them leave for greener pastures in more vulnerable online games.


“Bonds are pay to win”
This is an emotive point, and there's been heated discussion in the forums about whether gold == win. Rather than re-argue those points, I'll explain why our approach has changed.

For a long time we too have held very principled and idealistic position for how we tackle RWT. Recently we’ve moved to take a more pragmatic position and Bonds is a result of that. The change in our position has come from two things: firstly, our research and analysis has shown the scale of the RWT problem and the damage it is going to game health. Secondly, our efforts against the supply side of the RWT problem (banning ‘games of chance’, enhancing BotWatch and aggressively hunting out gold farmers) while effective has not been able to rid the game of RWT vendors.

We had to face up to the fact that many players were buying gold from RWT vendors already, and in doing so caused damage to the game, its economy and community. Bonds allows a safer, player-driven and community-benefiting way to meet that demand. Our judgement is that this is a much better situation overall.


“Bonds devalue achievements”
This is also an emotive point and is quite subjective, so it’s best I talk about the tangible side of things… Bonds act to anchor the RSGP currency to the value of real world benefits like membership. In an economic system, this adds more stability, and in terms of RuneScape, it means your achievements are literally worth more now.


“Jagex are just lining their pockets”
Bonds are not 'additive revenue' for us. They are effectively another means of paying for existing services such as Membership, Spins or RuneCoins. Bonds move value across the playerbase, rather than towards us, or out towards RWT vendors. Of course we love the possibility that F2P players can now pay for Membership with RSGP, because the Members game is the best way to experience RuneScape. The more people getting the best experience, the happier we are too! But the main incentive for us is to improve game health by undermining the demand for gold farmers and improving the availability of membership so it’s available to more players.


How it’s going so far
Although it’s early days, we’ve seen some very promising results already...

Analysis of trade data shows around an 80% drop in gold trade volumes from gold farmer / RWT accounts. This is a fantastic result and is an early indication how powerful Bonds will be in tackling gold farmers and healing the damage their injected wealth caused.

There’s also been well over a 1000 gifted bonds, 11,000 bonds redeemed for membership (that’s over 421 years worth!), including over 3000 F2P players becoming members, and over 7bn RSGP sunk in re-trade tax.

All of this is good news, and I hope gives confidence that Bonds are going to really improve the health of the game.

One other thing to note: Botwatch and our other anti-gold farmer efforts are going to continue and even get more aggressive. Today we decided the next set of Botwatch system enhancements, following a set of feature upgrades which launched in the background with Bonds earlier in the week.

Thanks for reading,

Mod_Pips
Executive Producer, RuneScape.

 

 

Some interesting statistics, The one thing I cant understant is how the hell 7bn has been 'sunk' in retrade tax already, why would so many people do that when they know its going to waste money?

[Numismaster]

 

That post has nothing to do with bonds. They are stating they are working on item and gold sinks. We'll see how they are when they are introduced. So no it does not make bonds better.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

 

Why do some people buy bonds?

For the gp!

 

What do they need the gp for?

To buy items!

 

If items leave the game, will their prices be affected?

Yes, and in turn this will affect the demand for bonds.

 

 

So logically, if the new skill changes the economic status quo and if people's bond buying habits are dependent on economic conditions, the connection between the new skill (with its item/money sinks) and bond buying exists.

 

 

I just had a new thought...

 

Do you think Jagex implemented bonds as a means to accelerate the new money/item sinks? Previously, only the rich could blow loads of money on items sinks, but now anyone with IRL cash can do so. In the past, the uber rich were wealthy enough to satisfy their own expensive skilling desires, but once they achieved their goals, the spending stopped. There was no reason for them to pass their riches to the noobier players to be used. However, now the noobs can purchase bonds to trade for gp from the wealthy. Thus now both groups of players can drop large amounts of money and items into these sinks. This opens up the opportunity for many more players to join the skilling races than ever before, since now the lack of gp is no longer a limitation if one has the IRL money for it. In the meantime, Jagex reaps massive profits as the mediator of this exchange.

 

 

Disclaimer: I used the terms "rich player" and "noob" simply to portray the economic distinction between classes of players. These terms are not meant to be derogatory in any way.

[Aiel]

Not sure if people have seen Mod Pips Dev blog yet

 

 

Its two days since Bonds launched and I wanted to give some thoughts and responses to questions that have been asked since. While conceptually simple, Bonds have quite wide reaching implications so its understandable players are still getting to grips with what it means for the game at large. Over the last couple of days I’ve read thousands of forum posts, and while there’s a lot of positive reactions, there are some concerns too, so I’ll do what I can to address those here.

 

 

“Bonds can’t defeat gold farmers if blackmarket gold is cheaper”

On the surface this seems logical, but it’s not actually correct. It's really important to understand that Bonds do not need to undercut RWT prices in order to hurt the business of gold farmers. The price of Bonds in RSGP is player-decided, so the price will settle at the comfortable value players are willing to trade for. It doesn't matter if that is not as good as gold farm RWT because it's still sating the demand that gold farmers serve.

 

Even if, to start with, Bonds only rob the RWT gold farmers of half their trade, that is still serious damage to their business operations. I don’t believe Bonds should directly compete with gold farmer prices, as that isn’t necessary to still undermine their business, marginalise their place in the market and make them leave for greener pastures in more vulnerable online games.

 

 

“Bonds are pay to win”

This is an emotive point, and there's been heated discussion in the forums about whether gold == win. Rather than re-argue those points, I'll explain why our approach has changed.

 

For a long time we too have held very principled and idealistic position for how we tackle RWT. Recently we’ve moved to take a more pragmatic position and Bonds is a result of that. The change in our position has come from two things: firstly, our research and analysis has shown the scale of the RWT problem and the damage it is going to game health. Secondly, our efforts against the supply side of the RWT problem (banning ‘games of chance’, enhancing BotWatch and aggressively hunting out gold farmers) while effective has not been able to rid the game of RWT vendors.

 

We had to face up to the fact that many players were buying gold from RWT vendors already, and in doing so caused damage to the game, its economy and community. Bonds allows a safer, player-driven and community-benefiting way to meet that demand. Our judgement is that this is a much better situation overall.

 

 

“Bonds devalue achievements”

This is also an emotive point and is quite subjective, so it’s best I talk about the tangible side of things… Bonds act to anchor the RSGP currency to the value of real world benefits like membership. In an economic system, this adds more stability, and in terms of RuneScape, it means your achievements are literally worth more now.

 

 

“Jagex are just lining their pockets”

Bonds are not 'additive revenue' for us. They are effectively another means of paying for existing services such as Membership, Spins or RuneCoins. Bonds move value across the playerbase, rather than towards us, or out towards RWT vendors. Of course we love the possibility that F2P players can now pay for Membership with RSGP, because the Members game is the best way to experience RuneScape. The more people getting the best experience, the happier we are too! But the main incentive for us is to improve game health by undermining the demand for gold farmers and improving the availability of membership so it’s available to more players.

 

 

How it’s going so far

Although it’s early days, we’ve seen some very promising results already...

 

Analysis of trade data shows around an 80% drop in gold trade volumes from gold farmer / RWT accounts. This is a fantastic result and is an early indication how powerful Bonds will be in tackling gold farmers and healing the damage their injected wealth caused.

 

There’s also been well over a 1000 gifted bonds, 11,000 bonds redeemed for membership (that’s over 421 years worth!), including over 3000 F2P players becoming members, and over 7bn RSGP sunk in re-trade tax.

 

All of this is good news, and I hope gives confidence that Bonds are going to really improve the health of the game.

 

One other thing to note: Botwatch and our other anti-gold farmer efforts are going to continue and even get more aggressive. Today we decided the next set of Botwatch system enhancements, following a set of feature upgrades which launched in the background with Bonds earlier in the week.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Mod_Pips

Executive Producer, RuneScape.

 

 

Some interesting statistics, The one thing I cant understant is how the hell 7bn has been 'sunk' in retrade tax already, why would so many people do that when they know its going to waste money?

There's no way that 7b being sunk in retrade is correct. That would mean ~7000 bonds (~60% of those used for membership) have been retraded.

[Reliable]

Actually, it would mean that 5,800 + bonds have been re-traded. I know there's ALOT of people trying to flip them for a profit, usually meaning the pre-trade tax has already been paid. Just because 11,000 were redeemed for membership doesn't mean that there aren't many others that haven't been redeemed yet.

[God Of Lego]

I doubt that many are stupid enough to try and flip them, when they clearly state the tax. Alot of bond figures dont add up

[Numismaster]

I plan to flip my bonds... :?

 

If you can buy and sell bonds with a spread larger than the tax, then there is profit to be made.

 

I think in the long term, bonds will provide a measure of stability to the Runescape economy.

[God Of Lego]

I plan to flip my bonds... :?

 

If you can buy and sell bonds with a spread larger than the tax, then there is profit to be made.

 

I think in the long term, bonds will provide a measure of stability to the Runescape economy.

 

If you're willing to wait potentially months for bonds to raise over 600-700k more in price, then yes. They can be merched. As for making the economy stable. It wont even scratch the surface on its own. Theres still billions comming in through bots. Thats without the players. Bots will always bot. Gold Sellers will always gold sell.

[crazycdcm]

 

“Jagex are just lining their pockets”

Bonds are not 'additive revenue' for us. They are effectively another means of paying for existing services such as Membership, Spins or RuneCoins. Bonds move value across the playerbase, rather than towards us, or out towards RWT vendors. Of course we love the possibility that F2P players can now pay for Membership with RSGP, because the Members game is the best way to experience RuneScape. The more people getting the best experience, the happier we are too! But the main incentive for us is to improve game health by undermining the demand for gold farmers and improving the availability of membership so it’s available to more players.

 

This is bollocks. We've already seen the people saying how they can finally get the bank-boosters, various cosmetics, etc. That's runecoins they would not have bought otherwise, which is 'additive revenue' for jagex. If it weren't additive revenue, the rewards would be equal to their normal cost.

 

The thing upcoming with charity is just jagex taking advantage of our generosity/greed to count it against their tax-bill as well. They'll be middlemen to the donation, and then count it as their donation for the end of year accounts.

 

Jagex's estimate is 5100B RWT each month. For bonds to meet that demand, at the 7M price, 730k would need to be sold, which would correspond to 365,000 memberships for 28 days (a month?). The 1 month cost of membership is $7.95, sinking to $6.25 the longer your billing period is. Let's call it $7.50 to take a spread. So that means 365,000 memberships would be purchased at the premium of $2.50. That extra $912k, no that's not Jagex lining their pockets, it's definitely not additive revenue.

 

An almost identical argument applies to runecoins, and to spins.

 

If they wanted it to be fair, and not line their pockets, a rune bond would simply be $5 "store credit" to be spent on either runecoins, membership, or spins, or any of the packages.

 

I don't mind the update so much, just their flat out lies and the self-portrayal as selfless & saviours to the game, is patronising, and infuriating.

 

Edit: I see in hindsight that it's simpler to just note if you buy a bond, you instantly lose 20% of your real life cash if you were to redeem it. (160:200 RC, 8:10 spins, 7.95:10 membership). So, 20% of the value of bond sales is what Jagex claims isn't lining their pockets nor additive revenue. A dollar a bond, goes to Jagex, basically. (It's more in reality due to the packages making bonds worth even less)