Future Update Discussions

[brunokiller]

By the way, I am all for just scrapping skill reqs on all quests but only giving the xp/etc rewards once you reach the level requirements.

[Omali]

What I'm curious on is he mentions they fixed the 5th age quest markers, has anyone checked this out and seen if they have done it now?

I remember there being a massive list of quests that ought tot have markers that did not.

 

I'm torn on this req thing too I can see their point that if Zaros is gonna be a big part in all 3 major pillars of the 6th age story arc he needs to be opened up through a low req point in the 6th age, but at the same time it does feel like a bit of a rip off. I mean we have been here for YEARS we have toiled through minor hidden references and cryptic hints to piece together an idea that Zaros even existed and who he could've been. We've slaved at reqs to climb this journey and find the mahjratt and get it the point at which Zaros can finally return and now all that work is kinda being invalidated with a sweeping 5th age vs 6th age req thing so any old noob can stroll right in to frenskae and meet Zaros himself.

 

I certainly would like to see some form of quest replay even if the 'replay' was boiled down to more a choreographed cutscene with less actual action taken to smooth over issues that could arise with trying to reset some quests. Just so people had the chance to get it in order, especially if we had more recap npcs so each series had one covering it and they could give you a whole joined up 'movie' from start to finish of the events in order.

 

I can see that.

 

"Zaros? Who is Zaros? Why should I care that he's returning?"

*Later on*

"Why do I need to do this quest if Zaros already returned? Why are these people so ominous? This doesn't make sense."

[Nobody]

 

Because with good enough players you could spawn camp the opposing team and games ended up all about how had the most "pros" who were willing to play that day.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this a big part of why ice barrage was so game-breaking back in the day? There wasn't a whole lot you could do to counter that.

 

 

What Muggi said and also they would have someone tank while holding their own flag.  Flag holding is probably the worst mechanic in Castle Wars.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

Because with good enough players you could spawn camp the opposing team and games ended up all about how had the most "pros" who were willing to play that day.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this a big part of why ice barrage was so game-breaking back in the day? There wasn't a whole lot you could do to counter that.

 

 

What Muggi said and also they would have someone tank while holding their own flag.  Flag holding is probably the worst mechanic in Castle Wars.

 

 

It's also ironic as its kinda easy to fix, certainly let people pick it up on the field to 'save' it but it should be a case of on the field your team can only hold your own flag for say 40 seconds - 1min at which point it would default back to the spawn and place a similar mechanic from flags just stood on the ground. Plus make sure the counts are taken continuously and only reset when it returns to spawn, so people can't drop/pick up just in time to make it stay out.

 

Boom theres still a chance to kill the 'saver' and grab the flag back to go score but its impossible for them to keep their flag and tank for the duration.

[helring]

What I'm curious on is he mentions they fixed the 5th age quest markers, has anyone checked this out and seen if they have done it now?

I remember there being a massive list of quests that ought tot have markers that did not.

 

He meant the ones that Jagex thought were 5th age got better markers I think. I tweeted him about it and he said right now they're focused on the March quests but he wants to go back later and more clearly mark other 5th age quests looking at player lists.

 

 

 

 

I was hoping they'd do that. Not just the fact I lack the levels for it, but something this big in terms of Runescape lore shouldn't be locked to only an odd 20% or so.

 

I'm kind of split on this. I can understand why they'd do it since they want so many quests split off from this. On the other hand, if all the major lore events need to be available to people who haven't done quests because they're so major, then it doesn't leave much payoff for those who did stick with the quests. It also means that it could possibly confuse newer players and they won't get to fully enjoy the quest line in order. The second complaint might not be as bad if Jagex actually allowed a player to reset their quests and re-do them, but seeing as they don't it seems allowing players to do quests out of order could be a problem.

 

 

I remember them talking about doing this years ago, what ever happened to it?

 

 

If you mean making quests replayable, basically major technological hurdles and even if possible the project seems too large to justify.

[Ammako]

By the way, I am all for just scrapping skill reqs on all quests but only giving the xp/etc rewards once you reach the level requirements.

That would make obtaining Quest Points cape much too easy, unless the cape could only be claimed once you claimed every reward for the quests which would make little sense.

[Alg]

You'd still have to do the quests - that cape was never about grinding in the first place. Most of the requirements are arbitrary, anyway - you could probably get away with cutting back on them in the future, if nothing else.

 

I think we're getting to the point where GM quests that have used the skills they require are outnumbered by those that don't. Even ROTM could have done without its mining/crafting reqs.

[Ammako]

Cutting down on requirements which actually aren't used, sure.

 

But making it possible to get the cape within the first week or two of play time?

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think getting rid of skill reqs on quests would be a good idea.

But I am in favour of killing arbitrary un-used reqs.

 

In most older quests (eg legends) every skill required had a very specific task or tasks it was used for and served a purpose, but particular with 'needed to start' reqs that you don't have to re-boost at any point later in the quest it does feel a bit like why are they here other than to make it 'harder.'

 

 

I mean BOTD is a perfect example we don't actually mine or smith anything in the quest and we don't do anything that seems to require much in the way of strength either for that matter.

Meanwhile there is a bunch of stuff we do do that coulda had obvious skill reqs that are just ignored:

Planting the bombs on the cannons could've needed thievery or crafting skills.

Crossing the fallen pillars could've needed agility.

Repairing the memories could've used magic, runecrafting or constitution.

[Yoko Kurama]

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

 

As for quests, they should be holistic and represent the different aspects of the game, and that includes skills. Even from an in-game perspective, it makes sense that you'd need a certain level of proficiency to do certain things/feats in quests.

[Sy_Accursed]

In some ways I wish we could get back to a state where one of the main reasons to play runescape was to quest.

 

I mean once upon a time quests kind were a big part of the end-game and whilst its not bad other options existed now I feel the game lost something when they let the number of quests and the levels needed to do them get drowned out by the rate you can complete the quests and get the levels.

 

Sure you always had some folks who were ahead of the game and were waiting for new quests, but the vast majority were just a step or 2 behind at best and were aiming for that next quest; where as now its less aiming for the next quest as it is sitting twiddling thumbs waiting jagex to actually release a next quests just to sate the questing urge for maybe an hour or 2 at best before waiting another month+ for the next installment.

I mean heck I know in the last year or so I've kinda jumped the shark and hit a lot of skills to max finally but I haven't had to actually train a stat to do a quest in like 5 or 6 years or more. The last one I had to train for that I definitely recall was agility for Regicide, I vaguely recall needing to train for mep1 but I'm not 100% sure there, but that's it. I've been awful at getting new skills up to the same status as my older skills (aside from div) and even though Nomad stumped for all of like a day cause my ranged was a bit too low to do well I've not trained for a formal quest requirement in all these years. To the point that the idea of trianing for a quest does not even cross my mind, when they announced a new GM quest I don't even think oh my div is a bit low I might need to train and I just assume (correctly) that i'll have the stats.

 

And that, in a nutshell, just makes me a little sad that because jagex have dragged their heals of upping quest reqs and on getting quests out that quests have slipped from something to be aspired to to something that even most noobs can catch up on and be twiddling their thumbs for the next one to arrive.

[Tim]

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

 

The bigoted response I was waiting for.

 

Not everyone has the time to play it Efficiency-scape style. Some of us are only on 1-2 hours max a day, if that. Yes, some quests should have a fair hit of requirements, such as ROTM (which I still think the mining one could have done without) but the point to quests is it's storyline and lore. If you're playing them SOLELY to unlock something, Then you'll never understand that.

[Saradomin_Mage]

 

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

The bigoted response I was waiting for.

 

Not everyone has the time to play it Efficiency-scape style. Some of us are only on 1-2 hours max a day, if that. Yes, some quests should have a fair hit of requirements, such as ROTM (which I still think the mining one could have done without) but the point to quests is it's storyline and lore. If you're playing them SOLELY to unlock something, Then you'll never understand that.

 

RS has always been about progressing your character to level up for the purpose of doing quests. Sure they may not be easy or quick to do, but the point is that you're supposed to put in some kind of play time before you actually get to go on your grand adventure.

[V O R K]

 

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

 

The bigoted response I was waiting for.

 

Not everyone has the time to play it Efficiency-scape style. Some of us are only on 1-2 hours max a day, if that. Yes, some quests should have a fair hit of requirements, such as ROTM (which I still think the mining one could have done without) but the point to quests is it's storyline and lore. If you're playing them SOLELY to unlock something, Then you'll never understand that.

 

 

You can mine bane ore afterwards... Sure, purely for lore and storyline requirements shouldn't be there but when you reap benefits afterwards with skill requirements it only makes sense imo :P.

 

Are there actually quests with 80+ requirements? If not, any player can get them in a short amount of time.

 

Most quests have horribly high QP requirements, you're able to do them why would a skill be a problem...

[Platinum_Myr]

Actually, sometimes requirements aren't explicit during the quest so that you don't get the old "start quest and get half way before finding out you need to levelup"

 

I would honestly prefer more quests not have explicit start requirements, but instead just warn if you aren't able to finish.

 

Really though, sometimes quests can require skills that they never use if the NPCs actually think that you might need it. IE: the NPC goes "I don't think you are able to help me." so the req is more about impressing them.

[Miss Lioness]

 

 

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

 

The bigoted response I was waiting for.

 

Not everyone has the time to play it Efficiency-scape style. Some of us are only on 1-2 hours max a day, if that. Yes, some quests should have a fair hit of requirements, such as ROTM (which I still think the mining one could have done without) but the point to quests is it's storyline and lore. If you're playing them SOLELY to unlock something, Then you'll never understand that.

 

 

You can mine bane ore afterwards... Sure, purely for lore and storyline requirements shouldn't be there but when you reap benefits afterwards with skill requirements it only makes sense imo :P.

 

Are there actually quests with 80+ requirements? If not, any player can get them in a short amount of time.

 

Most quests have horribly high QP requirements, you're able to do them why would a skill be a problem...

 

 

Yeah there are a few:

80 Defense in Brink of Extinction

80 Magic in The void Stares Back

80 Mining in Birthright of the Dwarves [boostable]

82 Smithing in Birthright of the Dwarves [boostable] 

85 Strength in Birthright of the Dwarves [boostable]

[Alg]

RS has always been about progressing your character to level up for the purpose of doing quests. Sure they may not be easy or quick to do, but the point is that you're supposed to put in some kind of play time before you actually get to go on your grand adventure.

Still, you don't really need to inflate the requirements to tell a good story, and there are better ways to make a quest challenging than to slap a bunch of 80s-90s on the front of it.

 

I'd honestly like to see them change the way they sort quests. Going purely by raw levels is outdated when so many lore/plot-heavy quests have minimal requirements and when so many recent GM quests have been a complete joke in terms of content.

[Sy_Accursed]

GM is the most confusing of the classifications for sure.

 

Its a weird mix of quests that don't really mean a lot but have high reqs, quests that mean a lot but dont have reqs, quests that mean a lot and have reqs and a few random curveballs that are just trainwrecks, such as everyones' favourite BOTD. I mean whats not to love about a finale to a much liked series that fails to actually conclude any single story strand that has been developed, starts a bunch of other story strands it doesn't even let you conclude in the post-quest, has a bunch of arbitary tasks that ultimately reveal nothing and have no impact on the quest and climaxes the whole thing with 'yeah I just gave up on my evil plan like 6 months ago'

[Yoko Kurama]

 

The requirements for skills are so ridiculously easy that it hardly even matters. This isn't 2009 anymore. Most of the skill requirements for even the hardest quests -- they could be obtained fairly quickly even if you play moderately.

 

The bigoted response I was waiting for.

 

Not everyone has the time to play it Efficiency-scape style. Some of us are only on 1-2 hours max a day, if that. Yes, some quests should have a fair hit of requirements, such as ROTM (which I still think the mining one could have done without) but the point to quests is it's storyline and lore. If you're playing them SOLELY to unlock something, Then you'll never understand that.

 

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency, and I explicitly said that quest requirements are easy even if you play moderately. Most quest requirements are what?Level 70's, or 80's, at the highest? It is an objective fact that you can get that fairly quickly. Even if you're a poor player or don't have much time, there are plenty of alternatives (like D & D's, free spins, challenges, bonus experience) that make it relatively easy. For the high-end part of the quests a requirement in the 70's is quite easy and fair.

 

 

 

 

RS has always been about progressing your character to level up for the purpose of doing quests. Sure they may not be easy or quick to do, but the point is that you're supposed to put in some kind of play time before you actually get to go on your grand adventure.

Still, you don't really need to inflate the requirements to tell a good story, and there are better ways to make a quest challenging than to slap a bunch of 80s-90s on the front of it.

 

I'd honestly like to see them change the way they sort quests. Going purely by raw levels is outdated when so many lore/plot-heavy quests have minimal requirements and when so many recent GM quests have been a complete joke in terms of content.

 

 

I don't consider requirements in the 70's to be inflationary (keep in mind that level 70 is a very small amount of the experience, in relation to 99). No one (at least not me), is really asking for higher requirements; keep them in the 70's -- fine by me. 

 

Quests need requirements; that's part of the internal logic of the game. However, by keeping them in the 70's, they are easy enough that anyone who wants to participate can do so easily  and not be excluded.

[Urza285]

Is anyone covering the in-game QA session going on at 5 pm gmt at w52 mudskipper point?

[Alg]

I don't consider requirements in the 70's to be inflationary (keep in mind that level 70 is a very small amount of the experience, in relation to 99). No one (at least not me), is really asking for higher requirements; keep them in the 70's -- fine by me. 

 

Quests need requirements; that's part of the internal logic of the game. However, by keeping them in the 70's, they are easy enough that anyone who wants to participate can do so easily  and not be excluded.

I've just been getting the sense that they've been throwing 70-80s on a lot of quests solely so that they can justify giving it the grandmaster title, without really bothering to explain them. In my case it's not "these requirements are too high" as much as "there is literally no justification for these specific requirements".

 

Or maybe I'd just like to see them expand on/standardize the system they used for TWW and those remakes: light requirements and rewards for the base quest, with more content afterward. And then trim the quest cape once you've finished all of it

[Ambler]

This looks... interesting.

Possibly some sort of chamber below/above Nex's room?

[Urza285]

They could veey easily standardize their system. They pretty much said here is a list of 5th age quests that we won't, can't and/or don't want transitioned into the 6th age. You as the character lived at the end of the 5th age and are transitioning into the 6th age. So now we have a whole set of quests set in the 6th age. They should standardize transitioning points for each quest line especially when things tie in. By that I mean players should be locked out of witnessing certain pivotal points until a certain progression point is met as far as questing goes.

 

I would still like them to bring in more world changes via shard worlds much like they are discussing with priffdinas. I like how they are working with the concept of players who haven't completed the quest wont see the city. I hope to see more quests using this as a base mechanic and set it as a permanent mechanic for sloryline progression.

[Yoko Kurama]

This looks... interesting.

Possibly some sort of chamber below/above Nex's room?

 

Looks like Freneskae homeworld or however you spell it. Nevermind. Just took another look. The resemblance to the Nex Chamber is unmistakable. I think it IS the Nex Chamber, maybe we have to go there for part of the quest.

 

 

 

I've just been getting the sense that they've been throwing 70-80s on a lot of quests solely so that they can justify giving it the grandmaster title, without really bothering to explain them. In my case it's not "these requirements are too high" as much as "there is literally no justification for these specific requirements".

 

 

 

Or maybe I'd just like to see them expand on/standardize the system they used for TWW and those remakes: light requirements and rewards for the base quest, with more content afterward. And then trim the quest cape once you've finished all of it

 

They might just be arbitrarily doing it, I suppose. In theory, skills are one of the basic building blocks of RS; so it'd make sense if you want exclusive things that you be proficient in them. As for specific requirements, I suppose they could always make them more naturally fitting in the quests. (The task sets usually do this well).

[Sy_Accursed]

Who is to say the Nex prison is not modelled on something originally found on freneskae?

 

And I wouldn't say that is the next chamber, yes it has the crossed walk ways and zaros logo in the middle but it seems more rectangular than the rounded shape of ancient prison; plus the obvious massive jutting black rock (much like frenskae teasers) and not the ice walls.