Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]

[Estoc]

 

 

It all comes down to whether or not you're going to put in the effort to achieve your goals.

 

...

 

Please, 'learning' to kill a boss is not something worthy of "put in the effort to achieve your goals." The people who are complaining about this requirement (of which I am not one) have no problem with putting effort in - they've already obtained the comp cape several times with the traditional requirements, which required far more effort than a little rs 'pvm'. Most of these people are complaining about the nature of these latest reqs, which are dissimilar to what the comp cape used to stand for.

 

To be frank, those people have a stake in this discussion - do you? If not, maybe you should think twice before putting them down by suggesting they are not willing to put the effort in.

 

 

It was a mistake to have the Completionist cape not require many if any boss kills in a game where the primary focus is combat. People definitely have a right to complain, but complaints should be directed at Jagex for trying to retroactively add in requirements, not because those requirements exist.

[Quasar]

titan buff next monday will make rob easier, i think

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

It all comes down to whether or not you're going to put in the effort to achieve your goals.

 

...

 

Please, 'learning' to kill a boss is not something worthy of "put in the effort to achieve your goals." The people who are complaining about this requirement (of which I am not one) have no problem with putting effort in - they've already obtained the comp cape several times with the traditional requirements, which required far more effort than a little rs 'pvm'. Most of these people are complaining about the nature of these latest reqs, which are dissimilar to what the comp cape used to stand for.

 

To be frank, those people have a stake in this discussion - do you? If not, maybe you should think twice before putting them down by suggesting they are not willing to put the effort in.

 

 

A few points:

 

-Yes, they have changed the requirements for Comp Cape. So what? By it's nature its an evolving thing and with new updates new requirements are added all the time. It wasn't exactly written on sacred stone somewhere that Comp could never have PVM requirements.

 

-Many would argue and have argued that Comp, in principle, was supposed to be inclusive of all sorts of gameplay aspects, not just skilling but PVM too. That it didn't have such requirements until recently was an oversight/mistake that was rectified.

 

-Everyone has a stake in this discussion - it's silly to suggest that only those who can't do PVM have something at stake. The natureof the Comp Cape and the game affects everyone to varying degrees.

[Wkw]

For everyone who says team activities and pvm shouldn't be cape requirements..

 

You were forced to play fog and ba, which require a team before, and fight nomad and do dominion tower.

[stonewall337]

For everyone who says team activities and pvm shouldn't be cape requirements..

 

You were forced to play fog and ba, which require a team before, and fight nomad and do dominion tower.

 

Not to mention this is a MMO.

[Wkw]

 

For everyone who says team activities and pvm shouldn't be cape requirements..

 

You were forced to play fog and ba, which require a team before, and fight nomad and do dominion tower.

 

Not to mention this is a MMO.

 

 

Indeed. Not to say I don't like the team requirement, but yeah.. This is a MMO with the majority of things based around teamplay.. So yes, teamplay should be a requirement for the BIC cape.

[brunokiller]

For everyone who says team activities and pvm shouldn't be cape requirements..

 

You were forced to play fog and ba, which require a team before, and fight nomad and do dominion tower.

Fog and ba are song only, so you don't actually need to do any participating. At least you do have to win a cw game for comp ;)

[Wkw]

Point being, you still need multiple people to do it.

[Jolletzu]

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

[Arceus]

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

I'm sure you can find someone to do one kill with you or lend you the stuff, or at least buy a leech as a last resort :v.

[Quasar]

if you're an endgame player you should have at least 200m+ even from just doing like herb runs lol.

[Youmu]

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

I'm lucky enough that my friends happen to like doing group PvM, which is all of Nex, KK, Rago and Rots. I rock at DPSing in chaotics and warpriest ;) I don't own any end-game gear and never bothered to borrow from anyone.

 

The key to doing the bosses isn't your gear, it's understanding boss mechanics and being able to exploit these mechanics whilist dealing damage and surviving yourself.

 

It's the same story with Araxxor.

[cowmaster187]

so far the best i can do on rush of blood is beating wave 17. I could do better with more luck. best thing for me would be nox staff i think. few more tries before i starting getting antsy to borrow one though. 

 

~~~legoman187~~~

[Jolletzu]

 

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

I'm sure you can find someone to do one kill with you or lend you the stuff, or at least buy a leech as a last resort :v.

 

I play rs3 maybe 1 hour a day max, my friends play old school so getting anyone to lend weapon or rather, even have a weapon is question out of this world. Official forums on runescape don't even think of getting someone without experience or good weapons, leech groups prices are probably astronomical for my 50m bank.

[stonewall337]

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

That's poor reasoning on a few levels.

 

1.) It can be done with T80 equipment. Sure you can't farm many kills per reset, but it is doable.

 

2.) It's the second highest item reward in the game. There is *zero* issue with it being hard to get, or requiring higher levels of gear. Herblore, prayer, etc all cost a ton to level. No issue with needing higher gear anyway. Not to mention you can sell em afterwards.

 

It's a double bind. Either you don't need the gear, and your argument is invalid, or even if you do need higher levels of gear it isn't an unreasonable requirement. 

 

And lastly, the kicker. If you can't find a way to complete the one challenging aspect of the cape, you don't deserve it to being with.

[Jolletzu]

 

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

That's poor reasoning on a few levels.

 

1.) It can be done with T80 equipment. Sure you can't farm many kills per reset, but it is doable.

 

2.) It's the second highest item reward in the game. There is *zero* issue with it being hard to get, or requiring higher levels of gear. Herblore, prayer, etc all cost a ton to level. No issue with needing higher gear anyway. Not to mention you can sell em afterwards.

 

It's a double bind. Either you don't need the gear, and your argument is invalid, or even if you do need higher levels of gear it isn't an unreasonable requirement. 

 

And lastly, the kicker. If you can't find a way to complete the one challenging aspect of the cape, you don't deserve it to being with.

 

 

You are going way off here, I'm not saying that it can't be done with 80 weapons, I'm saying that getting to teams without either t90 weapons or t90 armor (non port) is almost impossible because probably only 1% of teams trying to find random guys don't want anyone without either of those. And yes this is including mass groups as well

[Steph]

That's a problem with the community not Jagex.

[stonewall337]

 

 

I'd say PvM itself is not bad, but the thing that you can't get those things done unless you just happened to have ~200m+ lying around to buy level 90 weapons to get on the teams

That's poor reasoning on a few levels.

 

1.) It can be done with T80 equipment. Sure you can't farm many kills per reset, but it is doable.

 

2.) It's the second highest item reward in the game. There is *zero* issue with it being hard to get, or requiring higher levels of gear. Herblore, prayer, etc all cost a ton to level. No issue with needing higher gear anyway. Not to mention you can sell em afterwards.

 

It's a double bind. Either you don't need the gear, and your argument is invalid, or even if you do need higher levels of gear it isn't an unreasonable requirement. 

 

And lastly, the kicker. If you can't find a way to complete the one challenging aspect of the cape, you don't deserve it to being with.

 

 

You are going way off here, I'm not saying that it can't be done with 80 weapons, I'm saying that getting to teams without either t90 weapons or t90 armor (non port) is almost impossible because probably only 1% of teams trying to find random guys don't want anyone without either of those. And yes this is including mass groups as well

 

 

I don't see that as an issue, or a reason to change. It's an illogical stance. Why? Because there are many reasons it's simply an excuse.

 

1.) Make your own group. Form a mass. Recruit friends. Watch videos. Learn how to do it. You don't need to farm, just get one kill.

 

2.) Buy better gear. As states, considering the price of buyables, which you need at 99 anyway, the gear requirement isn't unreasonable, especially since it isn't needed. 

 

3.) Buy a kill. Seriously, if you don't want the gear, you can't afford 10m or heck even 20m or whatever for a kill? That's less than 5 hours of money making. Far less time than most other requirements. 

 

4.) Find a team that will help you learn, or a mass. Seriously, they exist.

 

Basically the only bosses that might be hard to begin with are vorago and araxxor. And if you can't find a way to kill them, you aren't a completionist. Sorry. 

[Quasar]

I mean back when I was the only guy selling rago kills for 60m each I can see how it would be expensive.  But now you can literally leech it for like 5m.

[Blofeld]

 

 

You are going way off here, I'm not saying that it can't be done with 80 weapons, I'm saying that getting to teams without either t90 weapons or t90 armor (non port) is almost impossible because probably only 1% of teams trying to find random guys don't want anyone without either of those. And yes this is including mass groups as well

 

Speaking as someone who used to have the same opinion as you 2 months ago. You are wrong.

 

If you need to do ROTS  , joing the FC 'TeachingRots'        It is run by an awesome player called Captain Onyx and he spends hours of his own time teach players how to do ROTS, you only need a Chaotic staff and seasingers. It takes a day or 2 or waiting in the fc to get a place, but you will.

 

if you need to do rago join the FC 'Rago PVM'  , You also only need chaotic staff and seasingers for this. The teams are so big you can do practically nothing and still get the kill, as long as you try do damage you don't need to pay. 

 

As long as you watch/read some guides you will do fine in both these FC's.  I too have only 1hr a day to play , and I dont have teamspeak and I successfully got my kills done over about 5 days.    i promise you can do it and there are players willing to help you, they are not a nonexistent 1%.

[Sy_Accursed]

I find the arguments that because leeches exist allowing anyone to do it and that getting into proper teams without good gear is a community issue not jagex kinda interesting stances to take in terms of whether a req is appropriate.

 

I do not think it really is good to have things doable for some with limits beyond their control just because leeching groups exist. I mean of course whether people with limits beyond their control like net issues should be able to do it is a whole separate tangent of its own, but it just seems rather paradoxical to me to both argue that the req should be there so people show skill and at the same time argue that its ok because if you lack skill you can just leech it.

 

And with the 'community issue' one I find it interesting how some how Jagex when developing a massively multiplayer game is not expected to consider how the community functions in relation to the game design. I mean sure it's not something they directly control, but as a good game dev would you not consider that community function as part of what to build your designs against?

 

Just find them kinda odd jarring arguments that don't really make sense in terms of solid reasons in the bigger argument.

 

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

[HunterDexter]

Sy, look in the Elves thread to the help they gave me, I was in the same place as you were and got it after about 60 attempts and lots of tips from the guys over there. :)

[Saradomin_Mage]

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

Well, you can think of buying a t90 weapon as another buyable skill ...

[Yoko Kurama]

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

Well, you can think of buying a t90 weapon as another buyable skill ...

 

 

This. if you're a high-end player (i.e., going for Comp), even if you do the most minimal ways of money-making (QBD, Frosties. God Wars etc.), you should at the very least be able to afford Drygores and Ascensions. If you can't make that sort of money, then either, you don't have Overloads, Ancient Curses, high summoning, or you're doing something wrong which could easily be rectified (like you're just doing the wrong things to make money). If it's the former, i.e., you don't have expensive buyable skills like herblore/prayer/summoning at a high level, well, then you won't be eligible for Comp anyways, so there's no problem.

 

In your case, it seems to be the latter - you're doing the wrong things to make money.

[stonewall337]

I find the arguments that because leeches exist allowing anyone to do it and that getting into proper teams without good gear is a community issue not jagex kinda interesting stances to take in terms of whether a req is appropriate.

 

I do not think it really is good to have things doable for some with limits beyond their control just because leeching groups exist. I mean of course whether people with limits beyond their control like net issues should be able to do it is a whole separate tangent of its own, but it just seems rather paradoxical to me to both argue that the req should be there so people show skill and at the same time argue that its ok because if you lack skill you can just leech it.

 

And with the 'community issue' one I find it interesting how some how Jagex when developing a massively multiplayer game is not expected to consider how the community functions in relation to the game design. I mean sure it's not something they directly control, but as a good game dev would you not consider that community function as part of what to build your designs against?

 

Just find them kinda odd jarring arguments that don't really make sense in terms of solid reasons in the bigger argument.

 

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

 

The reason you think it doesn't make sense is because you are using invalid reasoning.

 

See, the requirements aren't there because it's possible to get it through leeching, and so it stays (your false assumption).

 

The requirements are there because it's a COMPLETIONIST cape. And *COMPLETING* includes some things which are time consuming, and some things which are hard.

 

And if you honestly can't do something because of IRL issues or a bad PC, it sucks. I know. But it doesn't matter. You don't get into higher raiding guilds in WoW if you can't perform. You don't get into LCS in league if you have a bad PC. You don't get some jobs IRL if you can't do them. It sucks. Life isn't fair. But balancing a game around people who can't do certain things is absolutely one of the most stupid decisions you can make. If you make the game so easy that anyone can do anything, there is nothing left. Not everyone will be able to do everything, and that is ok.

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.