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Urza285

PSA: Death Rework LIVE next week!

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They could've also adjusted the amount of resources PvM brings into the game, or maybe remove the 200M prize from Treasure Hunter... And who will go to those KK masses with Jmods when half the people there get K0ed in mage phase? :huh:

 

What a bad update :mellow:


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oh, they've already tried to adjust the resource flow, but then they keep undoing it to get more people to log in regularly, or to sell keys

 

also, even if they did slow it down, the bots are starting to trickle back in

 

and even IF they succeed, all they will really do is once again affect the people who don't have most of the money, because the people with the money also tend to have massive hoards of supplies

 

we need something that consumes large amounts of items that are normally converted to gold, and preexisting gold, and appeals to rich [wagon] chasing after minor gains to one up each other or show off more, and what does that better than a system that progressively requires increasingly more of those things in order to scratch that perfectionist minmaxer itch

 

if people will stand in a castle for several months just to get a cape trimmed, they'll certainly go for this


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The idea of targetting compers, or the comper tendency, with sink runs into the exact same issue of being nothing to richies whilst wiping out the banks of poorer folk.

The only way you can target richies and only richies is by specifically taxing on bank value.

 

I mean I'm on my way towards trim now and sure my bank value may be triple digit mils, but that is all just basic gear I use in the day to day scaping not stored wealth. Plus my god it took my years and years, wasting some pay on bonds and some blind luck for me to get there and even have the gear I've got and still be kinda broke.

 

Of course invention does offer some good routes, but the only way it could really really really work is if the best in-game across everything required going through invention, but again you couldn't really balance in a way that sufficiently hits the rich folks without heavily penalizing the poorer folks.


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So something like the Well of Goodwill, except a more permanent and substantial effect.  :-k


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For money sinks, have the well of goodwill open for 6 months with a notice that says, in 6 months, for trim comp you need to dump 5 billion worth of gold, and for regular comp, 1 billion.

 

That way comp is valuable again, and a money sink. Everyone who has comp will work for it to dump money in.

 

 

Or, they can add exclusive time limited overrides and animations for people dumping into the well. But they won't because they already do mtx


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It would sort out the economy in a meaningful way that a few sinks here and there can never really do, but of course it'd come at the expense of alienating and losing a lot of high end players.

As opposed to the way they're currently alienating the lower tiers because of how stupid the barrier for entry is. My brother recently came back to find that he has to spend ~58m to get from 74 to 88 herb. When he quit he had a bank worth anywhere frorn 14-20, most of which was tied into gear that has since plummeted. So naturally he decided to buckle down and get to work, channeling the spirits of his hardworking ancestors to allow him to pull himself up from squalor and grasp the American Dream barehanded- Just kidding! He said "[bleep] that" and logged out.
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It would sort out the economy in a meaningful way that a few sinks here and there can never really do, but of course it'd come at the expense of alienating and losing a lot of high end players.

As opposed to the way they're currently alienating the lower tiers because of how stupid the barrier for entry is. My brother recently came back to find that he has to spend ~58m to get from 74 to 88 herb. When he quit he had a bank worth anywhere frorn 14-20, most of which was tied into gear that has since plummeted. So naturally he decided to buckle down and get to work, channeling the spirits of his hardworking ancestors to allow him to pull himself up from squalor and grasp the American Dream barehanded- Just kidding! He said "[bleep] that" and logged out.

 

 

True, but alienating the high end players won't do them any favours unless they have rejuvenated the influx of new players in the first place.

As it stands if they alienate the high end players they'd pretty much sign the death warrant for the game.

 

It's the great catch-22 that results in the messy middle ground measures they keep pumping out - they fear alienating the high end players and killing the game, but face the prospect that not fixing the economy is alienating new players and stopping the game from growing effectively.

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You don't have to make potions to get herblore levels, you know. You don't have to get them immediately either.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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What they could do is penalize untradeables on death somehow. I.e., you die with full void, you can pay a million to get it back from Death or start a whole new set with Pest Control rewards. Increase penalties/reclaim costs for those awesome quest rewards like the Asylum ring from Death's Door. Those are both things that siphon coins straight out of the game. If there is untradeable weaponry and equipment that is viable in dangerous situations (which there is) and a gold sink tied to dying with it, that would seem a good way to draw off some cash and maybe make a bit of a gold sink. Because no one is going to YOLO-Void GWD, right? :v

 

This sounds really good.

Put it on Runelab!

 

Would be nice if we could retrieve this from the Wilderness aswell. Wouldn't mind paying double costs for that either.

 

Just for nostalgias sake but since I don't play a lot anymore I certainly am inactive months on end because i'm not in the mood to retrieve my sets.

 

On the moneysink debate:

Implent Games room wagers on all of them.

Rework Rat pits

Put a x percent on Duel Arena wins that must be paid for using the Arena.


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There is a way to make a item-sink. Just make it so that everything (except rares and the like) degrades to dust, not like the current system, just a really slow degration, like a year (real time, not usage time). Would be impossible to implent and no-one would like it, but it would solve the problem of having to many items.


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There is a way to make a item-sink. Just make it so that everything (except rares and the like) degrades to dust, not like the current system, just a really slow degration, like a year (real time, not usage time). Would be impossible to implent and no-one would like it, but it would solve the problem of having to many items.

 

Reminds me of Puzzle Pirates, which works much like this - all worn items last for a certain number of hours played before degrading to dust, regardless of whether or not you're using them. (Or it might be a week of realtime for most clothes - it's been a while since I've played.) You can store items in your house for long-term non-degrading storage, but if you're carrying it - even if you aren't wearing it - it degrades.

 

Edit: I don't actually think this would be a good fit for Runescape, though.

Edited by Sorator

Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape.
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Something tells me that would be terrible for sentimental value/returning players or people taking a break though :P. "Oh, welcome back after 6 months - your Dragon has in the meantime degraded to dust! By the way do you want to buy some keys or bonds? Do you do you do you?"

 

Now, speaking of clothes, maybe if we made the TH skilling outfits tradeable and/or degradable, and require X coins to recharge for a week of time or what have you, we could solve our economic problems and sate Jagex with key revenue simultaneously. Because a 5% Herblore bonus for the set may be something that high levels/completionist tier people would indeed go for, but maybe it would be too little anyway.

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"Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art?

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My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.

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Bring back fatigue! :D


Back after a 5 year TIF hiatus. Please don't mind me too much.

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Bring back fatigue! :D

 

Runescape mobile version sells energy potions which reset your fatigue for the low low price of only $0.99 a use and allow you to skip the 12 hour rest time to recharge normally

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so, you want to take the TH skilling outfits, which were time degrade before, which were converted to not degrade, back into a different degrade mechanic, targeted at skillers, who are at the lower end of the economic scale

 

while we're at it, let's create the ninja ninja team, task them with fixing our grumpiness problem, and give them one person with a bag of crisps as their budget

 

sell cosmetic horse blinders in solomons so that people can continue to contribute to runelabs

 

add new prayers that increase power but lower accuracy so that we can increase the efficiency at which we keep missing the point entirely

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No, it wouldn't be targeted at your average skiller, more at the people with money to burn going for 120/200M Herblore or whatever who will throw cash at it. I suppose it would also be helpful to people who could save up say 50M at once and go on an Herblore training spree. Because if you think about it, there are very few actual money sinks in the game. Prayer, Construction, and Herblore are not even true money sinks for the most part. For example when you train Prayer, while you do buy bones, do the coins you spend disappear? Nope. They go to whoever sold you those bones. That might be another player who spent some time slaying dragons for money (props to them) or it might be from a bot dumping materials after doing the same thing. And as I've pointed out years before and is further made evident by the spammers I get in the GE and in my PM, someone is buying that gold back through RWT. So, it doesn't really suck any money out of the economy, it just "rebalances" (or changes hands might be a better way of putting it) it in the same way that money through bonds sans tax do.

 

Also RuneScape has had a sort of logistically correlated benefit to cost ratio for a while. Look at Prayer again. You have a whole huge table of bones you can use at an altar, from ridiculously slow (accursed ashes) all the way through Frost Dragon Bones or Searing ashes. Or take Smithing. You have Artisan's Workshop which has a huge range of options in terms of XP rates and hence efficiency, and much to my surprise, I have found some people that will chug vast amounts of resources straight in.

 

Besides the notion of skillers training Herblore seems somewhat absurd. The major potions (super-antifire, prayer renewal, overloads, etc etc) are either combat related, untradeable, or both. Granted the juju potions might do something, but obviously a skiller isn't go to say '85 Herblore QBD here I come!' If you're referring to skillers making profit, well true I suppose, it would be nice for them to be able to use a high skill to mix Herblore potions and sell them off at a profit, but until those potions are slightly less marginalized I don't see that happening or a slight XP buff changing much of that. I can see where you are coming from though, and yes unfortunately skillers do get shafted much of the time - that's a story for another day.

 

But if you are really suspect of me coming after people's skilling outfits, I guess that leaves one other option, which would be to boost them further (groan). Let them be "imbued" or something by throwing millions of GP directly from your coin pouch into your skilling outfit, which is then gone from the game, and gives a finite amount of time for a limited time boost to the outfit efficacy. Maybe 2M to temporarily boost a full skilling set to 7.5% instead of 5%, 20M for 10%, 200M for 12%. Some people will be that impatient or race to get them done in record time. I just think an idea to "fix" the economy/top-heaviness may involve using people's patience against them, so to speak.


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Minor nitpick: Construction actually is a money sink, because of the cash it costs to turn logs into planks (paid to an NPC, not a player), as well as the various absurdly-expensive supplies that can only be bought from an NPC.


Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape.
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Minor nitpick: Construction actually is a money sink, because of the cash it costs to turn logs into planks (paid to an NPC, not a player), as well as the various absurdly-expensive supplies that can only be bought from an NPC.

but there isnt a gap above mahogany that I know of that is more cash thrown away but at a reasonable jump. If there was a bit higher gp/h for decent increase in xp/h it'd be more of a sink. Most is just planks then using the others to polish off after 99. Also (I haven't done this myself so not sure how much it changes), with you getting free protean planks to whatever extent, that's adding a free mahogany plank while youre creating others. How much this offsets the sink I don't know.


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^ That still bears the issue of it doesnt really hit where needed.

 

A uber richie dying in void will just throw a tiny portion of their wealth at it and be done.

A poor player will suddenly find a sizeable % of their bank being charged to get it back.

 

The whole issue of a flat out sink system is it disproportionately hits the poor people who aren't causing the economic problems whilst being next to nothing to the uber richies who are.

 

One (partial) solution to that would be to implement a gradation-based system, where the penalties of death increase as you move more into the uber-richie crowd. Here are two ways that could be implemented:

 

1. Location based: Normal locations keep the current system, top tier bosses like Vorago, KK, and Araxor move to the new system, and other bosses (GWD, etc.) fall somewhere in between. This will put the risk back into bossing (where it always should have been), while not drastically changing things for players elsewhere, simply by having dynamic gravestone times.

2. Cost scaling: More or less the new system, but you get discounts on cheaper items. For example, items costing under 100k might cost only 10% of their value, while items over 5M might cost 50%, and items over 100M may cost 90%. The more expensive your equipment, the higher your percent cost.


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^ That still bears the issue of it doesnt really hit where needed.

 

A uber richie dying in void will just throw a tiny portion of their wealth at it and be done.

A poor player will suddenly find a sizeable % of their bank being charged to get it back.

 

The whole issue of a flat out sink system is it disproportionately hits the poor people who aren't causing the economic problems whilst being next to nothing to the uber richies who are.

 

One (partial) solution to that would be to implement a gradation-based system, where the penalties of death increase as you move more into the uber-richie crowd. Here are two ways that could be implemented:

 

1. Location based: Normal locations keep the current system, top tier bosses like Vorago, KK, and Araxor move to the new system, and other bosses (GWD, etc.) fall somewhere in between. This will put the risk back into bossing (where it always should have been), while not drastically changing things for players elsewhere, simply by having dynamic gravestone times.

2. Cost scaling: More or less the new system, but you get discounts on cheaper items. For example, items costing under 100k might cost only 10% of their value, while items over 5M might cost 50%, and items over 100M may cost 90%. The more expensive your equipment, the higher your percent cost.

 

1.This is alright for the people who have done it a lot, for anybody trying to learn, you can either pay a fortune to learn how to do it or just never do these bosses. Teams won't let you in without good gear, equally they won't normally spend their time in practice mode for you to learn or you'd have to seriously offset the cost. As less people can get into it and less can afford to risk it, item price can raise again from the daft prices they already are (vorago) and make the rich, richer.

 

2.Meaning that you cant afford to use decent gear unless you have a cash stack double the size, your whole bank could be the items meaning that you have to come up with that money quickly or lose the items. This doesn't really change anything for the rich, for the poor they have to start their bank again from next to nothing meaning they either risk everything or are locked out from high end gear more than ever.

 

The poor and new to things are going to be the ones ruined by this regardless. If you worked %s out off bank value, their whole bank could be items they've saved years for and can't afford to buy back. If it's off cash stack, the rich could easily just spend the cash on rares or leave in the ge with silly bids while a lot of the poorer people wouldn't think of that because they probably spend it on supplies and things a lot more regularly since they can't afford mass stacks of everything they need.

 

Meh.


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As the update has arrived already and got its own thread, I am locking this topic.

 

Please continue the discussion in the thread here: http://forum.tip.it/topic/329103-dd-improvements-death-rework/


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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