nice guide, can you compare it to karil's crossbow? that would help me as i;m not sure which to get atm

hahah nice, this was well thought out :-w Keep up the good work. I know where am i going.. TO buy some RUNE ARROWS \ !!!

for a first guide I would say you've outdone me! :shock:

 

 

 

but there are just a couple of things I'd like to note:

 

 

 

1. not only does Ava's attractor give more range bonus than a fire cape (+2 to offensive if you are below level 50 and +4 if you are above) but it also picks up a good majority of your arrows when firing.

 

 

 

2. the third age range coif gives a +9 to range attack bonus which exceeds the +8 a robing hood hat gives. not like there are more than 5 people who actually will use it but i just though i would say it

 

 

 

3. it would be helpful if you used a "." instead of a "," to note decimal points, as most(i think) people learn "." means decimal and "," means a thousands multiplier placement. (if you dont get what i'm saying just skip it. it did take me a while to find out what the "," meant though)

 

 

 

besides that i give this guide a 9.9/10 :thumbsup:

this is a great guide cuz i have range 65 noobish yes i know and i was wondering if it would be worth 70 just for crystal bow and now i know...yes ofcourse it would be worth it :D

Very nice. Kind of thing I'd do myself, if I wasn't too lazy.

 

 

 

Anyway, for someone who cba to pick up arrows anyway like myself, c bow is perfect since I can't 8-)

nice....according to your calculations, crystal bow is 0.1 times cheaper to use compared to bronze arrows..hence bronze arrows are 10 times better than using a crystal bow?

 

 

 

you did loads of meaningless calculations, that show nothing really useable for normal people.

 

 

 

as a hint, next time try putting worthness of time into the calculations.

 

if you'd do that, comparing different sorts of arrows at xp per gp per hour you'd accually get some meaningful conclusions out of your work.

I love these calculations. I always make such types on paper and end up being to lazy to type them out. I have several world 16 calculations.

 

 

 

I love the conclusion. But as you said, its only after the fifth bow. There are ofcourse a few lose ends, like powerranging, or using mithril/addy arrows. Or hell.. just to many. But for these calculations, I like it!

 

 

 

You could try to even prove that it may or may not be usefull to actually powertrain with these :o That could be shocking to few.. It could even be the reason for me to actually purchase a crystal bow.

Wicked, very we'll done the maths, alright not too hard and explained well, give yourself a pat on the back =D>

this really hurts my eyes. lol :P

even at the higher recharges it can be profitable to kill blue drags for hides and bones..

I updated the guide yet again. I was suprised to clicking the link to my guide (in my sig) and find the last post as late as 9th april! Proving it wakes some response in peoples' hearts. Therefore, I edited the guide yet again. I made the mathematical formulas look much better (Although they take much more space now), also added the small "Speed Issue" chapter, because there are certain someones bugging me about including speed factor in my guide. I wrote that section very conservatively, and it may be updated later. I remind you, constructive criticism is always welcome!

well...still abount the speed issue... a crystal bow on average is accually as good as broad arrows, so between the killing speed on mithril and addy. The problem is, the little speed differance these bows have is the exact thing that makes ranging worthwhile in the firstplace, taking that away is just killing it off.

 

 

 

For comparsion, i gain 66k attack experiance an hour at abyssal demons with whip, black mask and healing with guthans, and from 95-99 range i gained 63k ranged xp an hour at abyssal demons with karils, max range equipment and prayer, though i only gain 35k ranged xp an hour there with a crystal bow.

xpx, you can't compare Karils crossbow to crystal bow in terms of money. Basically, that's what my guide was about. Comparing prices, one shot from Karils costs over 8 times more than one shot from the C bow. Now, I know some people can afford to buy 10k bolt racks to train, but the MAJORITY of people doesn't. Also, I never said Crystal bow is THE most effective ranged weapon. I merely compared it to msb with rune arrows.

xpx, you can't compare Karils crossbow to crystal bow in terms of money. Basically, that's what my guide was about. Comparing prices, one shot from Karils costs over 8 times more than one shot from the C bow. Now, I know some people can afford to buy 10k bolt racks to train, but the MAJORITY of people doesn't. Also, I never said Crystal bow is THE most effective ranged weapon. I merely compared it to msb with rune arrows.

 

I was not comparing the price. Also note that bolt racks used to be really easy to uy from the shop at average 140 gp each, and thats only twice you'd pay for crystal arrows. I can ashure you rune arrows are too atleast 1.5 times faster w

 

 

 

Also the damage part- Max hit of crystal bow is 28, and degrades. Rune arrows on the otherhand hit max of 24 and the damage does not degrade.

The Crystal bow may be the most effective in killing monsters. But you're not factoring in the special attack on the MSB. Also, most people don't really use it very often but you can put poison on magic shortbows as well.

 

 

 

Finally, if you lose a crystal bow it's 150k-200k to get a new seed, or 900k for a new bow to wear down to a seed. If you lose an MSB and the arrows, you may lose 50k-100k.

 

 

 

And finally, I don't agree with your calculation of accuracy. We don't even know Jagex's official formula, therefore it's not really accurate to just ASSUME a linear relationship between attack bonus and accuracy.

 

 

 

If you want to look at the accuracy you can't just look at the numbers. Rather, get your range attack to exactly +100, shoot 100 times and count the times you miss, get your range to exactly +90, and repeat, and do so with +80, +70, +60, and +110. Then graph it with the attack bonus as your independent variable and the proportion of hits as your dependent variable. Run a linear regression and check the residual plot.

 

 

 

Also, same goes for the damage. You can't just calculate on max hit. Just from my experience, I hit a lot more 20-25s with my whip than 1-5s, so it can't just me a random number from 1 to your max hit. Again, sample 200 shots and record the amount of damage done with each shot, and compare the median, mean, and interquartile range of these.

Just a reminder that when you're calculating the % difference between two numbers, you have to subtract number b from number a, then divide by number a.

 

 

 

(a-B)

 

A = "B is % worse than A" (in the case of a negative, A is worse than B)

 

 

 

As it is, you're about 100% off on your calculations. For example...

 

 

TEST NUBMER 2: DAMAGE COMPARISON.

 

Compare to Rune Arrows? Easy!

 

 

 

25

 

20 = 1.25

 

 

 

CONCLUSION 2: The C bow is on average 1.25 times STRONGER than Rune Arrows.

 

 

 

 

to say that B is x% stronger than A denotes this calculation:

 

( % x A) + A = B

 

(1.25 x 20) + 20 = 45 <- which is not the case for the crystal bow.

 

 

 

In this case, 1 Crystal shot = 1.25 Rune shots. Or Crystal is .25 times stronger. Minor oversight, or major, depending on how you look at it. 1.25 times something and .25 times something can be quite a difference.

 

 

 

 

That leads us to:

 

 

 

1.25 x 1.08 = 1.35.

 

 

 

CONCLUSION 3: C BOW IS 1.35 TIMES MORE EFFECTIVE THAN RUNE AROWS AT MSB WITH FULL RANGED OUTFIT!

 

 

 

Ultimately, that means that you get 1.35 times more money, xp or kills (depends what you train on) per a shot, and when I will calculate for you the normal average price per shot at a C bow, we will have to divide the price with 1.35.

 

 

I don't see why you would multiply these two numbers together to find cost effectiveness. Seems a bit lazy, really. Shouldn't it require something like...

 

 

 

C bow vs MSB + Rune

 

Each gets X amount of shots

 

 

 

Damage w/ C bow @ X shots = A

 

Damage w/ MSB + Rune @ X shots = B

 

 

 

Cost of X shots for C bow = Y

 

Cost of X shots for MSB + Rune = Z

 

 

 

A

 

Y = M

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

B

 

Z = U

 

 

 

M and U equals the bang you get for your buck.

 

 

 

(U-M)

 

U = Rune is on average x% more expensive than C bow shots (in the case of a negative, C bow is more expensive)

 

 

 

averaging the max hit and accuracy and multiplying those two together...I don't know...Worse yet is multiplying percentages for two sets of statistics. :?

 

 

 

Obviously we won't be hitting at max damage each time. And it won't just be a 'hit or miss.' So [max hit x %accurate] doesn't quite seem right. I'm not sure what would do it except to shoot a few hundred thousand rounds :-k

 

 

 

I'm not 70 ranged yet either, but I am a math geek 8-) (not a nerd. nerds are smart.)

Where can i find out about the decay swith bug exactly?

Great guide I always thought that c bow wasn't good for training but now I am wrong.

 

 

 

You should add in the amount of charges it would take to 'payoff' the amount you lost during the first 2 charges instead of using a msb with rune arrows...

 

 

 

What I mean is like if you wanted to save money with range then you'd want to use a c bow, but you have to pay them first 2 charges that would cost more then a MSB with rune arrows. So how many charges after that while 'saving' would it take to 'payoff' the debts the first 2 charges get you in...basicly how many charges would it take to have a overall saved with c bow then a MSB with rune arrows?

 

 

 

If you don't get then could some one who dose get (If any of you do :? ) try to explain better or just give me an answer :D

I'm sorry, peeps. It looks like I've missed on several very serious points in my guide. I promise I will update (if I don't forget it, which I tend to do) this guide. However, for that I need a few things:

 

 

 

A crystal bow. Currently I'm saving for Guthans (yes yes, just guthans!), and once I buy that, I'll be kinda thin on cash.

 

 

 

70 range. I'd say it's not much, but considering my level of boredom tolerance (low!), I find killing 360-370 blue dragons, which are always crowded even in Ogre Enclave a bit "meh"...

 

 

 

Urge to play Runescape yet again. Right now, after training my Runecrafting up to 50 from 44, and Crafting to 61 from 56, I've became quite bored of playing Runescape, and so I'm currently in various games from Half-Life series: Sven-Coop, Gmod, CSS etc. (This seems to be the most important point as to why I won't upgrade my guide in a while right now. Sorry again, folks.)

 

 

 

P.S. I'm glad this was moved to AOW Never expected it :

ow, eyes, burning, head spinning... nice guide 9/10

 

i recently made my own system for recharging my c bow till it only costs 180k to recharge and it will cost absolutly nuffin, estimated time of completion: bout a month -.-

Nice calculations, the only problem I have it with it is that people don't train with rune arrows. People always go on abuot how the Cbow is cheaper and better than rune arrows, but people dont train with rune arrows, they usually use bronze - mith which I think is way cheaper than using a cbow

I think there aren't many meaningless calculations, and this is good as it is. You may want to include a small section in cheapness about how many bows it takes to reach your level of cheapness, including the first recharges, because that's a large factor. It's also good that you didn't include a section about Karil's Crossbow, because it would be largely inaccurate. I did some calculations with that once, to see how many bows it would take for it to become cheaper than X-bow, and I came up with 23, but then I realized a few things about racks. I used 300 as a price for racks, but if you buy from Ak-Haranu they average about 250 per rack, and if you buy on street they cost 400 per rack, so now I just use crystal bows for slayer, X-bow for barrows, and don't worry about the expenses :P