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Eating meat - right or wrong?


issy2

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I hate it when vegetarians say CHICKEN IS A BIRD, NOT A MAMMAL SO ITS OK. It is still the meat of a living animal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've NEVER heard a vegetarian say that chickens are okay to eat because they're birds (reptiles, btw). I'd assume that chickens and cows were like.. THE thing to stay away from if you were a vegetarian. :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chicken doesn't fall under the meat category, which I've posted in a discussion with eggs before <3: .

Its the inards of an animal and it has protein, of course it is meat.

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Guest AshKaYu

That reminds me of a dialogue I found quite funny. Heard it in the hallway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person 1: Yay, like, I'm a vegeterian.

 

 

 

Person 2: Me too!

 

 

 

Person 1: But like, I still eat meat.

 

 

 

Person 2: And chicken and fish, it's sooo good.

 

 

 

Person 1: Yeah, they're just gonna like, kill it anyway.

 

 

 

Person 2: That's what I think!

 

 

 

Person 1: Being a vegetarian like, rocks.

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That reminds me of a dialogue I found quite funny. Heard it in the hallway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person 1: Yay, like, I'm a vegeterian.

 

 

 

Person 2: Me too!

 

 

 

Person 1: But like, I still eat meat.

 

 

 

Person 2: And chicken and fish, it's sooo good.

 

 

 

Person 1: Yeah, they're just gonna like, kill it anyway.

 

 

 

Person 2: That's what I think!

 

 

 

Person 1: Being a vegetarian like, rocks.

 

 

 

That was pretty vague and offtopic in my opinion o_0.

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I'm going to go ahead and answer some of the questions/arguments that I've seen come up repeatedly :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: Why not stop eating plants then, huh? They're living, too! Is it okay to kill them? Then why not animals? HA, GOTCHA THERE!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A: Plants and animals are extremely different. Some animals have complex nervous systems that may allow them to feel consciousness (like us). Even the simplest animals have simple nerve networks. While few well-versed in the sciences would argue that a jellyfish is really conscious, vegetarians are forced to draw the line somewhere: which animals are alright to kill, and not others? The classic "vegetarian" chooses to draw the line at all animals, simply because it is a good easy clean line to draw - and you have to draw the line somewhere. A pescatarian is vegetarian who also eats fish, which have significantly less complex nervous systems than birds (i.e. chicken, turkey) or mammals (i.e. deer, cow, pig, lamb).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: But isn't it just part of the food chain? It's natural. This is the way the hierarchy is just supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A: We are no longer living in a world where we are just part of the food chain. We are pretty much controlling the ecosystem of the planet, and have arguably expanded our human race beyond our "natural" capacity. The animals we are eating aren't part of the normal food chain - they are animals that we have raised in captivity, on FACTORY FARMS, to massively "grow" meat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ALSO, as humans, (naturally omniverous), we are also conscious and have the ability to make rational choice and also consider morality, elevating ourselves to a level above the rest of the animals (arguably - chimpanzees... well, that's another topic altogether). Thus, we don't have to limit ourselves to the level of raw instinct. We have more options than that, and can take an ethical perspective into account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: Only people who are rich can have the luxury of eating vegetarian. Poor people can't afford it and need to eat meat. The entire world population couldn't sustain a vegetarian diet. You don't support poverty, do you? HUH?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A: Actually, the way the energy pyramid works, only 10% or so of the energy you eat is carried over to the next level of the food chain. So, calorically, in order to "grow" the animals that humans generally eat (herbivores such as cows, pigs, etc), we use up 10x more base level grains and such. If we used the area that is currently used to farm grain for animal feed, to instead farm crops that are good for human eatin's :D, we would theoretically be able to feed 10x more humans. (In reality, this efficiency would be lower than this figure, because not all the farmland would be suitable for growing human-use crops. But it would still be more efficient than what we have now.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if you really cared about poverty and helping everyone get enough food to survive, you would make vegetarian diets mandatory and kill off factory farms. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: I hate all these damn hippies. They're always trying to tell me what to do and eat! stop forcing this down my throat, crazy hippie!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Umm, that's kind of hostile. I don't think it's that different from trying to show people that your religion is the right way and Jesus is the lord, or from trying to get support for an organization that fights poverty. It's something vegetarians believe in, and something they feel would help you and make you a better person. No one should force their opinions down their throat, and I apologize on behalf of vegetarians who do that. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with exposing you to new ideas and opinions and information. This just makes you more aware, and then you can make your own decisions given an expanded knowledge base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: Being a vegetarian is unhealthy. You can't get the nutrients and vitamins and proteins you need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's hard to have a healthy diet, whether you're vegetarian or a meat-eater. I'd say the difficulties of each are fairly comparable. Meat-eaters have to be very careful about cholesterol and fats, for example - and they may not think to eat enough fruits and vegetables to get a lot of vitamins that are only available in them, thinking they have a satisfactorily complete diet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some great sources of protein for vegetarians are tofu, tempeh, other soy-based products (there's a whole range of meat substitutes available out there!), SEITAN (made from wheat gluten - this is my favourite :D), beans and nuts (legumes in general), some vegetables (broccoli is a decent source of protein, for example), and various other sources. Just do your research and read your nutrition facts. Make sure you get enough Vitamin B12 and Calcium and Vitamin D - these especially can be difficult for vegetarians and especially vegans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: So umm, why are you actually vegetarian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A: People usually have one or two of a couple of different answers for this one. These, I think, are the most popular, with emphasis on 2 and 3, and the differences between them:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) It's healthier - Some people (especially those running in trendy or upscale circles) try this reason. I don't have much of an explanation for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Killing animals is immoral - Some people don't feel comfortable with eating meat from an animal killed for that purpose, period. They tend to see an animal as a conscious being, and think that it is immoral to kill said animal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) The current method of getting meat - that is, factory farming - is immoral and involves unnecessary torture of animals. - This is the most common reason from most intellectual vegetarians. Often, people who see this reason as important agree that being vegan would be ideal. To find out more about factory farming and why it's so bad, I recommend this website :D : http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/animals.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) provided by Make7upu101 - It's better for the environment - Some vegetarians are concerned about the ecological impact that mass animal production and containment has on the air, water, and land. Intensive agriculture is more about producing feed for livestock, which is devastating to the environment, energy inefficient, and not ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅsustainableÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

Your name is "bet you fail", and you're starting a business with your mom? I'm not even going to touch that.....
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The link is a little much, thought it is very cruel and inhuman to do this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, yeah, that site is a bit heavy on the "Ahh!! HORROR TORTURE INHUMANITY" fear tactic thing. But for people who have no concept of what a factory farm is, or how we get our meat nowadays, I do think it does a pretty good introduction of the basic injustices that are committed - even if it's a little over-the-top and propoganda-y.

Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

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The link is a little much, thought it is very cruel and inhuman to do this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh, yeah, that site is a bit heavy on the "Ahh!! HORROR TORTURE INHUMANITY" fear tactic thing. But for people who have no concept of what a factory farm is, or how we get our meat nowadays, I do think it does a pretty good introduction of the basic injustices that are committed - even if it's a little over-the-top and propoganda-y.

i always knew they didnt treat animals well whivh is why i dont eat a lot of meat but ..wow..
Your name is "bet you fail", and you're starting a business with your mom? I'm not even going to touch that.....
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INHUMANITY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thats the problem here, really. people give humainty to something that isnt human (cows, chickens etc). The dont feel the way we do, thier brains arent as evolved and as a reult they dont question thier existance, why they are being eaten, why people are so cruel, etc...

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Guest AshKaYu

 

That reminds me of a dialogue I found quite funny. Heard it in the hallway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person 1: Yay, like, I'm a vegeterian.

 

 

 

Person 2: Me too!

 

 

 

Person 1: But like, I still eat meat.

 

 

 

Person 2: And chicken and fish, it's sooo good.

 

 

 

Person 1: Yeah, they're just gonna like, kill it anyway.

 

 

 

Person 2: That's what I think!

 

 

 

Person 1: Being a vegetarian like, rocks.

 

 

 

That was pretty vague and offtopic in my opinion o_0.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just adore how my post was complete spam, but yours wasn't. Just report it and go on with your life if you think that way. I was just trying to lighten up the thread.

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INHUMANITY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thats the problem here, really. people give humainty to something that isnt human (cows, chickens etc). The dont feel the way we do, thier brains arent as evolved and as a reult they dont question thier existance, why they are being eaten, why people are so cruel, etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Humanity, as a term, tries to make something black and white that isn't. Some organisms are closer to humanity than others. If a chimpanzee can use sign language to effectively communicate with humans, haven't they reached some higher level than a plant? What about all animals that can feel pain? What about all animals (there aren't that many, and they're pretty much all primates) that can recognize themselves in a mirror (showing that they do, indeed, have some basic concept of self)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So the word inhumanity is used a bit loosely, because the concept that it signifies isn't as black and white as it could be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, an adult chimpanzee is objectively NOT as intelligent as an adult human. However, an adult chimpanzee is objectively MORE intelligent than a two-year-old human. Should chimpanzees be afforded the same rights as two-year-old humans?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you draw the lines?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One fairly radical theorist and philosopher, Peter Singer, is a professor at Princeton and an animal rights activist. However, he also believes that infanticide should be legal (in cases of babies born with disabilities or diseases that severely limit their chances at having a decent life). Are these ideas compatible? He's one of the biggest, most intelligent, most famous pro-vegan activists - and certainly one of the most controversial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A cow isn't human. A chicken isn't human. Is a fetus human? Should a two-year-old human and a forty-year-old human have the same rights?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm rambling on and on, but my basic point remains. Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

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Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should be more careful about wording this as your opinion. In many people's opinion, including my own, humanity is something that only applies to humans. It is not objective truth that humanity is a vague concept - I think it's very black and white.

You crampin' my style.

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Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should be more careful about wording this as your opinion. In many people's opinion, including my own, humanity is something that only applies to humans. It is not objective truth that humanity is a vague concept - I think it's very black and white.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of my post? o.O

Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

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Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should be more careful about wording this as your opinion. In many people's opinion, including my own, humanity is something that only applies to humans. It is not objective truth that humanity is a vague concept - I think it's very black and white.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of my post? o.O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did. I don't believe you offered me any conclusive evidence that humanity can't be black and white between human and not human. A chimp is intelligent, but its still an imp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you going to tell me that the line between being one species and another is too blurry to say that someone who is human might not be?

You crampin' my style.

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Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should be more careful about wording this as your opinion. In many people's opinion, including my own, humanity is something that only applies to humans. It is not objective truth that humanity is a vague concept - I think it's very black and white.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of my post? o.O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did. I don't believe you offered me any conclusive evidence that humanity can't be black and white between human and not human. A chimp is intelligent, but its still an imp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you going to tell me that the line between being one species and another is too blurry to say that someone who is human might not be?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I guess you have a point. We do tend to be able to conclusively tell the species of an individual animal. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, the word humanity has many connotations and etymologies that aren't scientific in origin. According to dictionary.com, the third definition is "the quality of being humane; kindness; benevolence." If you look up humane, the first definition you get is "characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, esp. for the suffering or distressed".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yes, I guess you're right. I took my argument a bit far. But I do think it's fair to call immoral actions against animals "inhumane" according to the dictionary.com definition :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, I still do think what we consider "intelligent" in a human sort of way is very ambiguous. :D

Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

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what;s the difference between eating eggs and eating chickens? you basically kill a chicken either way

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please, no pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, you don't kill a chicken by taking an egg. If you cook it before it starts to develop, it feels no pain. I also only eat free-range eggs and milk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how the (insert swear word here) do you eat milk... :o

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

meat is good, god made stuff so we could shove it down our throats..DUH!

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Humanity is not a black and white issue, and so the use of the word "inhumanity" is not inappropriate in these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should be more careful about wording this as your opinion. In many people's opinion, including my own, humanity is something that only applies to humans. It is not objective truth that humanity is a vague concept - I think it's very black and white.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of my post? o.O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did. I don't believe you offered me any conclusive evidence that humanity can't be black and white between human and not human. A chimp is intelligent, but its still an imp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you going to tell me that the line between being one species and another is too blurry to say that someone who is human might not be?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I guess you have a point. We do tend to be able to conclusively tell the species of an individual animal. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, the word humanity has many connotations and etymologies that aren't scientific in origin. According to dictionary.com, the third definition is "the quality of being humane; kindness; benevolence." If you look up humane, the first definition you get is "characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, esp. for the suffering or distressed".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yes, I guess you're right. I took my argument a bit far. But I do think it's fair to call immoral actions against animals "inhumane" according to the dictionary.com definition :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, I still do think what we consider "intelligent" in a human sort of way is very ambiguous. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Especially the last sentence. :P

You crampin' my style.

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What about all animals that can feel pain?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i didnt say that they couldnt feel pain. I wasnt referring to chimpanzees either, they are obviously more like humans than a cow or a chicken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i was getting at is that using the terms 'humanity' or 'inhumane' etc when referring to animals is really inaccurate as human behaviour and thought is far more complex and intricate, even compared to chimpanzees (chimps do have basic human characteristics, though).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, there is far more to humanity and the qualities of being a human than a dictionary could ever tell you.

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That reminds me of a dialogue I found quite funny. Heard it in the hallway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person 1: Yay, like, I'm a vegeterian.

 

 

 

Person 2: Me too!

 

 

 

Person 1: But like, I still eat meat.

 

 

 

Person 2: And chicken and fish, it's sooo good.

 

 

 

Person 1: Yeah, they're just gonna like, kill it anyway.

 

 

 

Person 2: That's what I think!

 

 

 

Person 1: Being a vegetarian like, rocks.

 

 

 

That was pretty vague and offtopic in my opinion o_0.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just adore how my post was complete spam, but yours wasn't. Just report it and go on with your life if you think that way. I was just trying to lighten up the thread.

 

 

 

Did I say that you where spamming?

 

 

 

I was just giving out my opinion, free country.

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Now lets pretend all those protein subsititues and all those other pills, etc. don't exsist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we should eat meat because its something thats needed by our bodies. ALTHOUGH we should take into consideration how much we consume because we wouldn't want to wipe out or endanger a species.

 

 

 

Bigger things eating littles is nature, why change nature?

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Now lets pretend all those protein subsititues and all those other pills, etc. don't exsist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we should eat meat because its something thats needed by our bodies. .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We do NOT need to eat meat to survive!!! God, I hate it when people say stuff like that when it's blatantly not true. One of my friends, despite having 100% meat-eating parents, became a vegetarian at a very young age (about 6 or 7) and he is totally healthy. He's grown well and is taller than me, he's probably about 5foot, maybe less. He drinks lots of milk and eats lots of nuts. You do NOT need meat to survive - you need protein. And the two are very different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bigger things eating littles is nature, why change nature?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's right.

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Now lets pretend all those protein subsititues and all those other pills, etc. don't exsist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we should eat meat because its something thats needed by our bodies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the best thing I've ever seen. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, if you pretend all the meat substitutes (alternatives) don't exist, then you need meat. Ha :D

Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

siggypooro0.jpg

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