Grrr - I was unfairly muted/banned!

[Bobbington]

=D> well said.

 

 

 

Here is a little situation which you could apply your logic too....

 

 

 

You walk into McDonalds and order a Big Mac, you hand over the money and they hand you a premade burger!

 

 

 

 

 

But wait that Burger was premade! why did they do that? well.......

 

 

 

 

 

They COULD have made you a burger from scratch, it would have taken a bit longer but there is no reason why they could not do it.

 

 

 

But why would they? you asked for a Big Mac, they gave you a Big Mac. You got exactly what you needed.

 

 

 

 

 

If we change the situation, a player sends jagex a message asking "why was my account banned for offensive language?"...... this is esentially the customer ordering!

 

 

 

Jagex (McDonalds) have no reason to make you a fresh explanation as to why your account was banned, they have done it many times before and know what you want.

 

 

 

So they send you a premade message, it's just what the customer ordered! it's an explanation as to why their account was banned....... who gives a damn if the answer was premade or not? they have been told what they want to know.

 

 

 

 

 

Please note: I in no way condone eating Big Macs :P

 

 

 

Wrong again... If you appeal that hamburger, not only do you get a real person to speak to about it, but they REMAKE a fresh burger for you. Customer Service...

 

 

 

When you pay for a membership for a health club, for example. If you do something against the rules, or maybe a little out of line, they usually give you a warning. They always tell you nicely. THEY NEVER just banned you without explanation, and then tell you TO SIGN up again...

 

 

 

Actually in most fast food places they would either rudly tell you to go away or give you another premade one.... they only make from scratch when they dont currently have any made.

 

 

 

 

 

Back you your view point that every paying member is entitled to a real responce...

 

 

 

Every week 8,000 autoers are banned, or these priobaly around 3,000 are members why would they even consider giving them a personal responce?! they aim't never gonna' read it.

[Jesant13]

Jagex should make their banning system more accurate. I have been banned only once unfairly. My brother wrote something inappropriate and I appealed it, but Jagex wasn't convienced and I got denied. So, three out of four of the offenses on my account I actually caused. I have 1.4 blackmarks on my account. :|

 

 

 

I feel sorry for anyone that has gotten unfairly banned and I wish everyone a awesome time on RuneScape! :D

[Bobbington]

Jagex should make their banning system more accurate. I have been banned only once unfairly. My brother wrote something inappropriate and I appealed it, but Jagex wasn't convienced and I got denied. So, three out of four of the offenses on my account I actually caused. I have 1.4 blackmarks on my account. :|

 

 

 

I feel sorry for anyone that has gotten unfairly banned and I wish everyone a awesome time on RuneScape! :D

 

 

 

I am sorry but I have no sympathy there.... there is no reason why your brother should have been able to type somthing on your account.

 

 

 

You where either account sharing, or left your account loged in (AFK). Even if it was not you who said it, it was still on your aco[bleep] from your IP. I suggest you take some time to read over the rules and check the account security levels.

 

 

 

Whilst your are logged in it is your responsibility to keep the account within the rules.

[hohto]

You are ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT any doubts, wrong!

 

 

 

Please point me the part where I was wrong. I told you the things how they are and you don't even want to point out the things that were wrong.

[Mozzy4ever]

First time being banned :

 

 

 

I actually caused this one.. I was hyper, and I was really having fun and said "**** all kittens!" 'cause there we like 20 kittens where I was.. I was a imputent little child at that time. I appealed it and they said "We have proof that you were in power of your account (ect ect)" when I didn't even appeal for that...

 

 

 

Second time being banned :

 

 

 

I was stupid a friend found out my password... He got on, said things he shouldn't have, and got me banned. When I went to appeal, I accidently clicked on the wrong thing (I wasn't in control of my account) and the normal response came up.

[tskolar]

Grr

[Stewie_Griffen]

I got a temporary forum ban for mentioning what was apparently a horrible scam site that by posting it would corrupt thousands of accounts.

 

 

 

I asked someone to go to tipIt because they needed help on a quest. Really, there's over a thousand members here and all of them still have their accounts and items, why would Jagex think tipIt is a scam site! It's a sad day in Runescape where you get banned for trying to help people.

[llamster]

My friend has a noob account that has 24 blackmarks. Yes, 24! Not 2.4. His account wasn't banned, it was only permanately muted.

 

Grr! He was unfairly unbanned.

[Bobbington]

I am glad you said unbanned! :P

 

 

 

I dont think there is anybody in this community that is that worth giving another chance..... 24 bites the cake!

[Acelgoyobis]

So one of my accounts got banned...no biggie, it was one of our failed low-level pk accounts.

 

 

 

But the appeal process was just funny.

 

 

 

First offense: July 2 (2.5 black marks)--this one's actually my fault--hehe. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then came the second offense, which was another rule 1 breakage. This time, I got 12.5 black marks on myself now. I appealed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then they presented me with the damning evidence! Oh no...I'm cornered now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

So now my noob character is permanently banned. The appeals process was funnier than anything else though.

[Ginger_Warrior]

bobbington, I think what annoys people is two things.

 

 

 

#1) The extent of the punishments.

 

 

 

I, for example, have had one offense put on my name. Password scamming. For this one offense, I was given 10.0 blackmarks, and at first had my account banned. I made an appeal, it was denied but I was given a final chance (I mean this makes no logic whatsoever. You'll convict me, but you won't carry out your punishment because you think I might not have meant it. Well, why punish me in the first place?). This seems a little excessive, and it provides no room whatsoever for reform. One offense in a whole year, and I'm deemed as innappropriate for the RS community.

 

 

 

Yet I see people with sixteen offenses for breaking rule 1, who only have about 5 blackmarks. This really angers me actually. I have made one mistake, I never actually asked anyone for their password either - a point that seems lost on Jagex. Yet there are people that have shown contempt for the rules time and time again and yet they're deemed less of a threat than me?

 

 

 

The scale of punishments is completely wrong. You can never judge anyone on one action, and for Jagex to give out an instant ban to anyone for one offense is simply wrong. If anyone here thinks that's acceptable, then my opinions of you as a person will sink faster than a stone, and I'll just regard as judgemental.

 

 

 

#2) The appeals system itself

 

 

 

FYI, my appeal was sent back to me within two minutes. A CS query takes about a week to get a reply, the forums are swapped so much the mods can't properly cope and do their job, but I'm expected to believe that my appeal, which actualy explained how there was never any malicious attempt by me to get someone else's password, was properly read by a human, analysed, considered, and replied to in two mins? Especially when I got the typical reply of "you were in control of your account... blah blah blah" - a point which I never actually challenged.

 

 

 

bobbington, it is simply wrong and immoral to tell someone they have the right to do something, and then not to deliver that right. You've lost a lot of respect from me in actually trying to justify this process, which is blatently flawed and unfair, and should be removed indefinitely until it's fit for purpose.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

1 day mute. Not saying I didn't deserve it but it was rather funny. He was a level 124 moderator, who kept stealing my rock, yes fellow tip.iters, I openly "fight the man"... at least when my experience per/hour is jeopardized! :D

 

 

 

[hide=Watch out kiddies! Curse word over yonder! (half of one)][/hide]

[Bobbington]

Sorry Ginger Warrior, crossed wires me thinks!

 

 

 

My point was basically saying is combody was coming into question enough times to collect 24 black marks.... the sensiblity of offering a "second chance" is probaly not there.

 

 

 

 

 

I personally agree with you though, there are some major flaws in the punishment system. In my personaly opinion:

 

 

 

Offensive language rule break: 1 black mark

 

 

 

Offencive language rule break, second offence: 2 black marks

 

 

 

3rd time: perm ban.

 

 

 

It is clear that the user is ignoring warnings and has no intention of changing his ways, this player in my view has no place in the community.

 

 

 

However factors shoudl be taken in to mind, what was the time scale between offences? If there was a matter of years between offence 2 and 3 then a perm ban is uncalled for, it's a slip up and should be one black mark again. However the original offences shoudl retain in effect.

 

 

 

A player broke the rule and it should be recorded as such.

 

 

 

Now this is my only my view point. and sadly it does not work like this. The system does need working on.

 

 

 

However my point still stands....... a player who collected 24 black marks is obviousally doing somthing wrong and is not learning from it.

 

 

 

Looking over my original message It was a bit rushed and I did not explain my point in a very mature way, and for that I apologize.

[Bobbington]

1 day mute. Not saying I didn't deserve it but it was rather funny. He was a level 124 moderator, who kept stealing my rock, yes fellow tip.iters, I openly "fight the man"... at least when my experience per/hour is jeopardized! :D

 

 

 

[hide=Watch out kiddies! Curse word over yonder! (half of one)][/hide]

 

 

 

A little bit of human decency may be called for in future...... try and think how people feel from what you say.

 

 

 

Publicly claiming that another person has a terrible deadly desease is not "fighting the man" its beeing rude and offensive.

 

 

 

If you wish to "fight the man" try and be polite... explain your point......

 

 

 

At a guess (like most players in this game) you are amerian, so I will use an american example.

 

 

 

Jerry springer is on, who do you have more respect for?

 

-the people fighting sewaring and insulting each other?

 

-or the people who talk out their issues and settle things without causing major upset or offence.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

He had the two rocks and I had two rocks. I felt it fair that we keep it that way instead of him invading the rock that linked my spot to his spot whenever his rocks were currently empty. I just expected that much respect from a very high level AND a moderator when I was so polite to him, then he just pushed me over the edge when he continued to do it and followed me through worlds to do it.

[Bobbington]

And is that an excuse to be offencive? try looking at other ways to tackle a problem.

[Ginger_Warrior]

O_M_G_Guasto, I've seen that term quite a few times with two definitions. On an old forum I go to, Nintendo of Europe, a poster actually started using that term as reference to someone who spams a lot. Despite this poster being the most respected on those forums, near enough the whole community turned round and said it was out of order. The point I'm making is that it doesn't matter what you mean the word to be - it's insensitive and I'm in complete unison with Jagex's punishment there. I can safely say that if you use that term here, unless it's in a sensible and mature manner, it will be removed by the moderators, and rightly so.

 

 

 

bobbington, I completely agree. Someone with 24.0 blackmarks clearly shows no respect for the rules of the game, and as such, shouldn't participate in that game. I'm gonna quote you as a Jagex staff member (as a Tip.It staff member, I know full well what it feels like having people quote you as a staff member!), but it's nice to know someone who works (albeit voluntarily) for Jagex admits it needs redoing.

 

 

 

However, you still haven't answered the main point of that post. Is it really fair that I have to worry only being reported for one more offense to get banned permenently, when I've been found guilty of only one offense beforehand, and when I was punished based on suspicion, and not on hard evidence? The fact that rule is a very serious rule is regardless, is it really fair I go from 0 blackmarks to a Last Chance for that? Think about it... I could accidently write a swear in MSN or something, only it gets written and sent in the RS chat box by mistake. that pure mistake could get me banned. That doesn't strike me as particularly fair, and it annoys me I don't have anyone at Jagex to talk to about this...

[Bobbington]

Well in a way whilst the meaning behind certain offences is very open to circumstance, if a player was actually password scamming then I feel a instant ban is called for.

 

 

 

before the current system we could not find out how many black marks we had on our accounts. The marks where purly used for Jagex to base judgments on. 10 black marks for password scamming should not really be read as 10 black marks...... but as an instant ban. If you have 3 marks already the punishment would be 7 marks. For example autoing is 10 black marks, I am to belive (although it's not explained to us) that a black mark is not 1/10th of a ban, but it is a meter that fills up. When you cross a certain point the meter breaks.

 

 

 

I understand your view point though.... and have put thought into it before.

 

 

 

Why should one little mistake mean a perm ban? You are lucky that there is now the second chance appeal feature of the site. Usuing this I hear they look at aspects of your accoutn, and balance up "is a ban the right way to go?" At a guess your offence was quite a while ago, and I know they they do see time as a factor. In the past I have seen jagex as a company they will forgive past actions, and move on.... although they dont forget.

 

 

 

Because of the way the game works, I dont feel it would ever be possile to prove that you truly where not putting any bad intent behind your offence, and bacause of this it is correct that they hold on to the infomation incase it happens again. it would be daft to destroy evidance.

 

 

 

Personally if after reviewing evidance you where found to probaly have no intent, I would have drastically reduced the punishment, or even remove it (I have no way of seeing evidance so I won't make a judgment). Although I dont know what the inner polocies of Jagex are or how they work so it would be unfair for me to comment.

 

 

 

I feel I am rableing on here a bit and not explaining my point well so I will call it a night and try again tomorrow :thumbsup:

[Ginger_Warrior]

Lol.

 

 

 

Well, while I obviously can't post the reply here (although, come to think it, I don't see what's legally stopping me...), I can tell you that there is no hard evidence to prove that I was asking someone for their password. In fact, I seem to recall the sentance went something like "His son probs don't know his ********". That is not evidence. There is nothing there to suggest that I was trying to scam someone out of their password. The only thing you can go on there is a suspicion that I may have been trying to get someone's password, which I can see why they got that impression. In which case, why not give me 5.0 blackmarks, and warn me about choosing my words a bit more carefully? I agree that people who are blatently trying to auto or steal someone else's account details should be banned from playing this game - but only if there is hard evidence they premeditated it. For example:

 

 

 

"Give my your password, and I'll make you a mod" (or something to that effect).

 

 

 

Note the difference between that blatent example, and my suspicious example.

 

 

 

I just find it deeply worrying that Jagex:

 

 

 

a) Resort to using bans bases on suspicion not evidence.

 

B) Think it's perfectly acceptable that I can't talk to anyone at Jagex about it, when I've pay good money for that account.

 

 

 

And before you say "an appeal is your chance to talk to Jagex about it", an automated machine that checks for key words is not an example of the CS I'm talking about.

 

 

 

Now I got a message from a Jagex mod about a complaint I said regarding something completely irrelevant to this topic, and I got told that Jagex is working on building its CS team. What I suggest though is that until CS is fit for purpose for this appeals system, it should be either removed, or a short-term alternative used until it is. An automated response isn't bad as a short-term alternative, but it's clear Jagex have been using it as a long-term thing, and this really angers a lot of people about this issue. The fact that any human would see their "offences" aren't actually in breach of the rules, but an automated program thinks it is.

[Bobbington]

Actually I have been told that every appeal is actually read by a jmod (except in the cases where they admit they wotn acept an appeal), although it does have to be said the premade responces they give are not applicible in alot of cases.

 

 

 

About the censored password thing though.... remember we dotn know how the system works, they developed their own censor and recording software so it's very possible they have it so they can see the un censord version of the word.

 

 

 

That was just a guess, but there is no reason why it could not be true.... always the chance!

[Ginger_Warrior]

Actually I have been told that every appeal is actually read by a jmod (except in the cases where they admit they wotn acept an appeal), although it does have to be said the premade responces they give are not applicible in alot of cases.

 

 

 

About the censored password thing though.... remember we dotn know how the system works, they developed their own censor and recording software so it's very possible they have it so they can see the un censord version of the word.

 

 

 

That was just a guess, but there is no reason why it could not be true.... always the chance!

 

Well, if it's done by J Mods, then perhaps that's even more worrying as it shows their incompetence. Maybe that's a bit harsh, and I know there's other reasons they may be so rash with punishments, but I've seen some of the things on here, and the evidence they've posted isn't evidence. It's just a a suspicion to only imply they were trying to break the rules. You can't really base a punishment on that... can you imagine being trialed in the real world based on no evidence, and just suspicion? Your defence team would rip the prosecution apart... added to that that's just what Jagex say. That doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

 

 

 

You're probably not the person to talk to about this I know, but then again you can't help but feel that if Jagex had a half-decent CS team, I wouldn't have to. I defended Jagex about half a year ago saying it was 'coz there were so many people in RS, but population figures are starting to now level out and Jagex have had enough time to sort this out, so I'm not gonna accept that as an excuse, and a weak one at that.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I come across a bit forceful, but for obvious reasons this is a topic that strikes a real personal chord with me.

 

 

 

Lol I just realised you live like 20miles away from me!

[Bobbington]

Wooo north west! (although Bolton is better :P)

 

 

 

Anywho..... *stops getting off topic*

[Dragon_45348]

Yo dragon 45348 here, im new to these forums so how yall doin? Soon ill b updating my signature so itll have my old pimp suite in it from runescape classic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywayz ive been a runescaper for over 6 years, yah since begginging pretty mcuh, well i havnt goten any black marks or offenses till a month or 2 ago then jagex realy hit down on me, 2 ill admit could b offensive but the othe rone i cant, anywayz i got 5 black marks now and had 6 days mute * I hate being muted i cant curse ppl when im muted : s :boohoo: *

 

 

 

February 7th, 2007

 

Here it is copy and pasted, my first of 3 and the one i cant beleive i got 2 marks and 2 days mute for.

 

 

 

dragon_45348: :P

 

dragon_45348: wats ur lowest lvl

 

dragon_45348: lol

 

dragon_45348: my lowest is hunting as well, 58

 

dragon_45348: hey guys

 

dragon_45348: stop speakin french lol

 

dragon_45348: omle du framage

 

************: me..kinda..

 

************: i know cantonese o.o

 

dragon_45348: a chin*a ching chong

 

 

 

February 7th, 2007

 

Second one, first time in all my rs time getting offenses here it is, never before seen but before me and my friends laughing our buts off.

 

 

 

P.S. If you find any of this offending im sorry

 

 

 

dragon_45348: all right then

 

dragon_45348: uhoh offensive language

 

dragon_45348: im from afganistan

 

dragon_45348: todays our muslim holiday of shootin americans

 

dragon_45348: wat?

 

dragon_45348: y u followin me

 

dragon_45348: lol

 

dragon_45348: hippie

 

dragon_45348: i kill hippies for breakfast lol

 

dragon_45348: xryz ima put a jihad on u

 

dragon_45348: alallallallala

 

dragon_45348: i know wat american is, someone come over our country and bomb it

 

dragon_45348: and kills all our goats

 

dragon_45348: king think hell follow me into wild? * btw king is one my friends from school loll you dun get see wat he said, he didnt get marks *

 

dragon_45348: y americans always bomb the inocent?

 

dragon_45348: i had to go mcgiver to get internet, wit toothbrush, tweesers

 

dragon_45348: and string

 

dragon_45348: aw my message didnt appear

 

dragon_45348: to get internet i had to go mcgiver and use tweesers, toothbrush

 

dragon_45348: and string

 

dragon_45348: cuz americnas bombed the afgany aol building

 

dragon_45348: if u havnt noticed yet mr serious im from america lol

 

dragon_45348: just wastin ur time

 

dragon_45348: 6k till 86 def king :P

 

************: hey m8 * this is king again my friend from school, i was giving him sum free items lol *

 

dragon_45348: once i get im gona turned into atk mode get atk lvl

 

************: ty so so so so so so so much i o u big time

 

dragon_45348: then use dragon battle for str

 

dragon_45348: get em all 86 then start controlled

 

************: ty lots

 

dragon_45348: i wish u could personalize items and write stuff on em

 

************: lol

 

dragon_45348: id draw big 8--- on the back of cape lol

 

dragon_45348: then give it to some1 i ha8

 

dragon_45348: --<3-->

 

dragon_45348: a arrow through a heart lol

 

dragon_45348: my rune is better then urs :P

 

dragon_45348: k

 

dragon_45348: quickly

 

dragon_45348: jonny dep is ***

 

 

 

April 18th 2007

 

This is my 3rd and if ppl make me mad not the last of my offenses and mutes, jagex u cant hold me back u broke me loose wit that first mute lol.

 

 

 

dragon_45348: its 2 fun lolz

 

dragon_45348: lord dun tell m ewat do

 

dragon_45348: dup dawg

 

dragon_45348: i stay here cuz i dont like lord of g5

 

dragon_45348: wana go duel arena?

 

dragon_45348: wats ur total lvl

 

dragon_45348: how much cash

 

dragon_45348: lord

 

dragon_45348: wish i knew u in rl so i could kick your ace

 

dragon_45348: c its ppl like him that make me enjoy the german world

 

dragon_45348: stop atkin flag

 

************: off her

 

dragon_45348: 12 minutes use 36 spells

 

dragon_45348: cmon ppl wer u at

 

dragon_45348: peace this

 

************: dont attack caleb inless she attacks me

 

dragon_45348: caleb ***

 

dragon_45348: peace nub

 

dragon_45348: lick em

 

dragon_45348: lick my nads

[Athfrox]

dang, my acc is banned for 1 day and muted for 3, reason being is a bunch of rule 1 offenses (for saying i was stoned as i was a rock-ring of stone ftw!) well anyways i got one of the offenses twice with same evidence but different offense, it said i was misusing customer support. i dont even touch the report abuse button unless i need to so why did i get 2 offenses for 1 incident?

 

 

 

 

 

edit:how come their are offenses that happened months ago adn i jstu get slammed with half a dozen offenses overnight? yesterday i had 0 offenses and now i have 6

[sup3rpur]

Actually I have been told that every appeal is actually read by a jmod (except in the cases where they admit they wotn acept an appeal), although it does have to be said the premade responces they give are not applicible in alot of cases.

 

 

 

About the censored password thing though.... remember we dotn know how the system works, they developed their own censor and recording software so it's very possible they have it so they can see the un censord version of the word.

 

 

 

That was just a guess, but there is no reason why it could not be true.... always the chance!

 

Well, if it's done by J Mods, then perhaps that's even more worrying as it shows their incompetence. Maybe that's a bit harsh, and I know there's other reasons they may be so rash with punishments, but I've seen some of the things on here, and the evidence they've posted isn't evidence. It's just a a suspicion to only imply they were trying to break the rules. You can't really base a punishment on that... can you imagine being trialed in the real world based on no evidence, and just suspicion? Your defence team would rip the prosecution apart... added to that that's just what Jagex say. That doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

 

 

 

You're probably not the person to talk to about this I know, but then again you can't help but feel that if Jagex had a half-decent CS team, I wouldn't have to. I defended Jagex about half a year ago saying it was 'coz there were so many people in RS, but population figures are starting to now level out and Jagex have had enough time to sort this out, so I'm not gonna accept that as an excuse, and a weak one at that.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I come across a bit forceful, but for obvious reasons this is a topic that strikes a real personal chord with me.

 

 

 

Lol I just realised you live like 20miles away from me!

 

 

 

pretty much sums it up. Quite a few months back there was a massive auto alcher ban that was done without announcement. basically every1 who was alchin was hit with a 7 day ban and 7.5 marks. this included me and a few friends and yes, of course, zezima. i confirmed this with him myself so dont flame me plz