Purchasable skills

[curmudgeony]

It came to me that much of RuneScape is about time and money. To level, it takes resources. These resources can be bought with money--buying 10k maples--or time--chopping 10k maples.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The art of the game seems to be finding the economic sweet spots whereby the items you purchase can be converted back into equal or greater amounts of cash. However, much of the traded material turns into an economic backwater. I have seen noted drops of thousands of unstrung willows, and of hundreds of tiaras.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Construction, designed as a gold sink, is almost explicit in how its suppose remove money from the game. What would happen if there were another gold sink? What if players could purchase skill lamps of exp for in-game currency?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I realize that ultimately the goal of the game designers is to get people to start playing member and keep them playing for as long as possible, so this idea is unlikely. But for the purposes of debate:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How would directly purchasable exp affect the game? Would it ultimately help or hurt the game?

[Ddrmaster7]

It would significantly hurt the game, in my eyes. This would basically put all the power to the pures, rich merchants, and seasoned players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say an update like that did come out. People would be creating accounts left and right, for the purpose of staking (a great money maker, if done correctly). Merchants would be trying harder and harder to push their prices up, causing the lower-leveled players to become incapable of purchasing these items. Or, the opposite; rares and other expensive items would be sold in mass quantities, for the purpose of the rare holder to get the cash quickly. This could cause a dramatic decrease of all these items. Either way, the economy would get screwed up. Maybe I'm wrong, but someone here will surely correct me.

[swampjedi]

Wow, I'd quit RS if that ever happened. Nothing to really debate here, IMO.

[nerdattack16]

Wow, hurt. If I woke up tomorrow to find that I could go out and buy all 99 skills, it'd be like "Whoa, I've got maxed out skills. Now what?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it would get boring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really fast.

[swampjedi]

Can you imagine how bad real-world trading would be?

[E_D_G_E_1039]

I would hate this. The game is not about merchanting. One could get a 99 skill without ever even "training" it.

[Punc]

Well, it would ruin the toughness of skills like agility and mining, were you actually have do to it yourself, instead of buying rescources. Those few hard skills are the best to have high levels in IMO, seeing as you can't buy your way in them.

 

 

 

The game is already unfair if you were lucky enough to pick up a party hat/ santa hat/ halloween mask when they were dropped, and allowing people to buy all the skills would definitly ruin the gameplay, making people who don't have ways to make those needed millions to be annoyed and bored.

[unknowable]

Purchasable Experience, just NO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

almost all skills are already purchasable. Mining, Agility, Thieving, Slayer and Hunting shouldn't be ruined. This already has happened to fletching and cooking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it would also ruin the economy, just like Ddrmaster7 said.

[chessmastuh]

Well, to be honest, it's not even a possible suggestion. The introduction of buyable exp would throw out the window the basis of the skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's think about it here. The majority of the skills (sans those which require materials to be bought, such as construction) require two things: detirmination, and a lot of time. Because of this, those who attain the highest levels in the skills have proven themselves to be both detirmined, and have had a lot of time on their hands in the past, and because they held through, they are rewarded with the ability to obtain those objects that come only to the masters in the skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With buyable exp, this entire system would be flipped over. The people who would be attaining 99s in skills would not be those who were detirmined and hard working, but rather those who were willing to spend the most money. RuneScape would no longer be a game where the people who work the hardest are rewarded the most, but where the people who have the most money are rewarded the most. What basis is that for an MMO?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to mention that eBay sales on GP would be through the roof.

[Noob_Sammich]

Wow . This would be lame. Buy your way past RS? That would defeat the purpose of RS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NS

[InkofDeath]

I highly doubt jagex would do this,they'd lose members by the masses. They either achieve their 99 goals, or find that the hard working determined people are no longer rewarded with respect and such items, but the wealthy are, and the only skill that would require skill would be how fast can you spot an auction on E bay or who can get the lowest deal on E bay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The uniqueness of rs would wither away to a 0 also, diversity would no longer be in the game, communities such as tip it would be no longer needed, communities would be who can buy the most experience in a day, rs wouldn't be a game, it would be a machine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The economy would be full of sellers not buyers, no one would buy anything so most of everything would lower in price, until there's nothing left to sell and there's no resources or very little, no one would wc or mine, whats the point of it? yes there may be that little group who want party hat and work someway through skills, but even then it'd be better to do it through E bay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once something is entirely directed at money, money is the only thing to matter.

[Noob_Sammich]

Lol you might as well download a macro.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NS

[Viv]

i would prob quit too...all the merchants that never skill would get the highest levels and all the skills will be equal none would be resepcted cause of nonbuyable.

[Duke_Freedom]

The downfall of the "debate-club" is already starting in this very topic with various people 'threatening' (in a one line sentence, I may add) that they will quit the game if the idea was implemented. Not really the kind of reply that would fall under my definition of "serious debating".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Especially considering curmudgeony certainly seems to realize that the idea would be extremely contraversional and therefore seems to be asking more for discussion about the consequences of the idea rather than a discussion about whether the player community would like it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, I have thought about the idea of buyable or tradable xp plenty of times in the past but never bothered making a thread about it as the replies on it are expectable: negative, with little in-depth reasoning why. Even worse, the little reasoning that is given, mentions that it would probably mean an increase in the amount of people breaking a specific rule - not a very legit counter arguement against the idea itself in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me start out by stating that the questions curmudgeony raised are quite open - the answers depend a lot on how the idea is implemented exactly and how much the cost of xp of a certain skill would be in relation to the cost / time it currently takes to raise that skill. For example, if the prices of xp would be something absurd as 1000gp / xp, then the effect of this idea would be next to zero.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In order to get some real discussion going on, I'll work out the general idea of two options of the "buyable xp idea":

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Litterally buyable xp in some NPC shop. The price of the xp would fluctuate depending on the player demand for the xp at that price. This may require quite a bit thought to work out on Jagex part, but is possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Effects:

 

 

 

- Money drained. Probably quite a considerable amount, helping to stop RuneScape's inflation numbers to a certain extent.

 

 

 

- Raw materials may see a price change. I'm currently unsure how significant this will be and what the exact effect will be - that would need some more thought.

 

 

 

- The market price of the xp of a skill in the NPC shop would be multiple times higher then the cost of xp when training the skill the fastest way.

 

 

 

- Give rich players an useful ability to spend their wealth on.

 

 

 

- A significant drop in the prices of rares.

 

 

 

- If implement well, it should not be interesting for most people to take advantage of this option. The price of xp in the NPC should be high enough to ensure this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Not buyable xp, but tradable xp - players being able to sell their xp in a skill to another player. The exact way of implementing this would, again, be a bit more complex as I would not suggest a 1-on-1 of trading xp regardless of anything. Firstly, I think that there should be some kind of 'xp loss' in the sale of xp. Secondly, this 'xp loss' should be greater the more high leveled you are in the skill. And thirdly, the buying of xp of people who are leveled lower than you in the skill should give you much less xp, or maybe none at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Effects:

 

 

 

- No money drained, the sale of xp will be player to player.

 

 

 

- Raw materials may see a change here too.

 

 

 

- Rares may or may not see a change and this may be either a drop or a rise in their price - requires more thought.

 

 

 

- The buying of xp would probably only be interested for rich people, and become steadily less interesting as the player has a higher skill level.

 

 

 

- Give rich players an useful ability to spend their wealth on.

 

 

 

- If implement well, it should not be interesting for most people to take advantage of this option. The xp loss ratio would be high enough to ensure this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So much for my thoughts.

[Adam007]

The downfall of the "debate-club" is already starting in this very topic with various people 'threatening' (in a one line sentence, I may add) that they will quit the game if the idea was implemented. Not really the kind of reply that would fall under my definition of "serious debating".

 

 

 

How about we add another hidden subforum in this subforum to do even a little more filtering, eh? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I wouldn't be against the idea, but that's a biased opinion given that I have enough money to buy a lot of skills. I just don't have the time to level them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that it would ruin elements of the game though. A lot of people love the ideology behind the cranking out hours and hours on the coal rock and feeling accomplished at the end of the day, because that's the main point behind the game.

 

 

 

I just think time is more important nowadays, so I'd be in favor of this kind of update so I could just sell my party hats and buy some skills. Money=time=xp in my eyes, and I have money. Just not time. And I'd like xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But this would encourage a lot more selling money online, and with there currently being a rule against that, we couldn't have any of that. So in jagex eyes, that would be a big no. While there's a lot to debate about this topic, there's no possibility of it happening for a lot of reasons.

[Peronix]

There are already 'buyable' skills. You spend tons of money to purchase the fastest training methods. But it still takes time. If you remove the time factor, every merchant with a party hat set in the game would be a zezima tommorow. You don't deserve prestige in skills because you had a sudden windfall of wealth, skills are about effort, no matter how much money you pour into them.

[swampjedi]

I could see allowing it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1xp : 10k gp

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[unknowable]

1)Money Drained - Yes, this is true, good.

 

 

 

Raw materials Price Change - Could be, but not very likely, for people who want a 99 skill pretty quick, but don't want to spent a lot of money on it. They might drop, a tiny bit.

 

 

 

Market Price of xp of a skill - This is a good idea, but it takes lot's of maths to get to price. You have to change it everytime the market prices change. Therefor it's not very likely.

 

 

 

Rich Players - True, but if so, only rich players will be in the highscores. This means an unbalanced community, at one side the rich, high lvled players, and at the other the poor, low lvled.

 

 

 

Drop in price of rares - That's true, but they'll eventually rise up again, so there isn't really a point for this, other than making money.

 

 

 

For most people interesting - No, not really, only for the rich people. If a lvl 3 comes straight of tutorial island and notices you can buy xp in a shop, how would he/she buy it with the 25gp they get? it's also not interesting for die-hards who want to achieve a 99 skill at their own

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2)No money drain - Thus increasing the inflation, which isn't good. This can take the economy down a never ending hole.

 

 

 

Raw materials - Yes, but for the same reason as above, not really likely.

 

 

 

Rares change - they will drop, but eventually rise again, other for merchanting needs, no need for it.

 

 

 

Rich Players a useful ability - Unbalanced community, same as above.

 

 

 

Interesting for most people - Either with the lower lvls, you have the die-hards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Gain Again/Unknowable

[dargonhuman]

They've already got something similar to this in the game. It's called Pest Control, and with PC, you can raise your Prayer to 99 without touching a bone. Very much a form of buyable xp. And you know what? The effect on the community has been nearly disastrous.

 

 

 

Before PC was released, acheiving a combat level of over 100 was something to be respected for, getting a 126 meant you were almost god-like in RS. More importantly, though, was the fact that it took time and dedication to get there, which meant that by the end of the journey, the player should have developed quite a bit of maturity and discipline, which most did as was reflected in the kind respectful way they interacted with their fellow players.

 

 

 

Now, most 100+ players are a bunch of arrogant jerks who think a few numbers make them better than everyone, and all because they spent a few weeks buying their levels with PC Points.

 

 

 

If that option were extended to all skills, we'd see the end of the RS community as we know it, and probably the end of RS as a game.

[unknowable]

They've already got something similar to this in the game. It's called Pest Control, and with PC, you can raise your Prayer to 99 without touching a bone. Very much a form of buyable xp. And you know what? The effect on the community has been nearly disastrous.

 

 

 

Before PC was released, acheiving a combat level of over 100 was something to be respected for, getting a 126 meant you were almost god-like in RS. More importantly, though, was the fact that it took time and dedication to get there, which meant that by the end of the journey, the player should have developed quite a bit of maturity and discipline, which most did as was reflected in the kind respectful way they interacted with their fellow players.

 

 

 

Now, most 100+ players are a bunch of arrogant jerks who think a few numbers make them better than everyone, and all because they spent a few weeks buying their levels with PC Points.

 

 

 

If that option were extended to all skills, we'd see the end of the RS community as we know it, and probably the end of RS as a game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At least for Pest control, you have to work for it. I personally only train combat in f2p. What we here are talking about is just money-->Xp Straight.Without any portal damaging, Void knight protection or monster killing. No cooking, no hopping over obstacles, no pickpocketing. You don't have to do anything, in contrast with PC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd really like if you stated your opinion about straight, buyable xp. :wink:

[Stihl]

2) Not buyable xp, but tradable xp - players being able to sell their xp in a skill to another player.

Another potential effect would be interference by macroes. If their average lifespan is 10 days, cutting trees at a rate of 5k xp/ hour, for example, the macroer could simply sell off roughly one million woodcutting xp (minus fee) after nine days. Depending on the going rates for xp in any given skill, macroes could potentially become more pronounced. More likely, though, woodcutting xp would just depreciate rapidly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a little too old-fashioned to care for the concept itself, though. There certainly is a fair bit of negativity associated with the idea, and I think that that in itself would hurt Jagex, if not the game. :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: *watches Duke_Freedom point out a previously stated countermeasure*

 

 

 

...S'cuse me while I dig my foot out of my mouth. :-w

[Duke_Freedom]

Raw materials Price Change - Could be, but not very likely, for people who want a 99 skill pretty quick, but don't want to spent a lot of money on it. They might drop, a tiny bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

May sound strange, but I could even see raw materials rise as a result. Allowing people to buy xp in skills like woodcutting, mining, fishing, etc means a lower supply of raw materials too. Overall I agree that whatever change that would happen wouldn't be very significant though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Market Price of xp of a skill - This is a good idea, but it takes lot's of maths to get to price. You have to change it everytime the market prices change. Therefor it's not very likely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm proposing some sort of self-adapting system. I know it's possible, you'll see this kind of idea implemented more in future MMO's. In fact, RuneScape's general shop works already a bit like this... Increasing prices as the stock of an item in a shop drops. Such a system for xp would need to be a bit more complex then that though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rich Players - True, but if so, only rich players will be in the highscores. This means an unbalanced community, at one side the rich, high lvled players, and at the other the poor, low lvled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said, the price of xp in the shop should be high enough to prevent - this is just a matter of tweaking the system and the actual gp rates of xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another potential effect would be interference by macroes. If their average lifespan is 10 days, cutting trees at a rate of 5k xp/ hour, for example, the macroer could simply sell off roughly one million woodcutting xp (minus fee) after nine days. Depending on the going rates for xp in any given skill, macroes could potentially become more pronounced. More likely, though, woodcutting xp would just depreciate rapidly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm yeah, this is part of the reason I added this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And thirdly, the buying of xp of people who are leveled lower than you in the skill should give you much less xp, or maybe none at all.

[Ginger_Warrior]

A skill with directly purchasable exp? I would be outraged! Personally, I like working for my goals, and this would encourage exactly the opposite. the rich players of the moment would have no trouble getting the exp, and promoting their rating amongst other players, which I find unfair, especially considering the tactics some more narrow-minded and less-driven people use to get money

[curmudgeony]

 

 

 

. the rich players of the moment would have no trouble getting the exp, and promoting their rating amongst other players,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, to play devil's advocate, do ratings honestly matter? Certainly in terms of mining, a high skill will beat a lower, but apart from wilderness combat, players don't directly compete.

[Ginger_Warrior]

 

 

 

 

. the rich players of the moment would have no trouble getting the exp, and promoting their rating amongst other players,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, to play devil's advocate, do ratings honestly matter? Certainly in terms of mining, a high skill will beat a lower, but apart from wilderness combat, players don't directly compete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh yes... but if what you propose happened to a new combat skill that would improve your performance in the wilderness, then would you not agree something is wrong here? The pures would benefit more than they already do, and while I have no problem with pures, it's not fair on people who don't try to mislead other players. My idea... this should never happen. It creates an uneven playing field, because although gold purchasing is against the rules, it does happen.