Is luring an acceptable practice?

[Kalphite_Queen]

Many people (mostly the lurers) justify this practice by saying that most areas give warnings before the actual death of the person. People opposed to luring (such as myself), say that it is a breach of rule three, item scamming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, is luring acceptable?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discuss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<

 

 

 

To all posters:

 

 

 

Whatever the Jagex rules, the official policy here at Tip.it is that trade luring is a scam. It would be best for you if you do not admit to luring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if you post, please contribute. Posts that don't contribute anything will be considered spam and removed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

SwampJedi

 

 

 

>

[One Too Far]

i think its totaly unaceptable (never been lured thoug i did kil a lurer onces and took the mystic tops he dropd to get me of my whip (only took a dds with me and kild him) but jagex says its not against the rules

[Nadril]

Yes, it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My policy is that if you are too stupid to realize its a scam, you deserve to get scammed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what it is, lure/trade scam/ real life scams (credit card scams / ect.). All it takes is a slight ammount of brain power to avoid these incidents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Hey, I want to buy your item for a rediculous ammount of money, can I?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Sure random stranger!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Ok, just walk up to the wilderness with me and we will trade there"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"why there? Why not the bank?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Because I'm busy (or some other excuse). I prommise I wont kill you and its not dangerous!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Oh, ok!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:roll:

[Giordano]

Sure. As well as scamming. Get used to thinking. :)

[swampjedi]

Define luring, if you would?

[wolfboy]

Would I lure? No. Even if I could (As a p-mod I'm not allowed to lure, as it could be viewed as abusing my crown) I wouldn't do it. However, if you're smart enough to lure successfully and don't have a problem with doing it, good for you! Have fun. On the other hand, if you're stupid enough to fall for a lure, tough luck. Maybe next time you'll know better.

[Einsteven]

Nadril, isn't that lure a bit.... pathetically simple? I wouldn't know, because i never been lured before, but if that was what people fall for, then yes, it is perfectly acceptable. Kinda like the credit card scam "Give me your credit card number and I'll get you a few million dollars I have taken from Africa!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't have much opinion on whether this is acceptable or not. I see it both ways. I believe luring newbies to the game shouldn't be allowed, but then again, who wants to lure a newbie with bronze sword and wooden shield? o.O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, if you do fall for a lure like the one Nadril said, then ya, its plain stupid of you, and you should learn next time.

[Nadril]

Nadril, isn't that lure a bit.... pathetically simple? I wouldn't know, because i never been lured before, but if that was what people fall for, then yes, it is perfectly acceptable. Kinda like the credit card scam "Give me your credit card number and I'll get you a few million dollars I have taken from Africa!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't have much opinion on whether this is acceptable or not. I see it both ways. I believe luring newbies to the game shouldn't be allowed, but then again, who wants to lure a newbie with bronze sword and wooden shield? o.O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, if you do fall for a lure like the one Nadril said, then ya, its plain stupid of you, and you should learn next time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well yeah, it was just a simple example tied with a bit of poking fun too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all honesty though all lures involve you going into the wilderness. If someone doesn't want to trade you at the bank/not the wilderness don't trade with them. It's that simple.

[timmay929]

Yea, it's acceptable. If someone wants to walk into wildy with a phat to sell it, they deserve to get killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, I know of a person that lured a phat. I don't personally know him, but a friend of mine does.

[spikerkid]

Define luring, if you would?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tricking players too trade people in the wilderness while somebody else kills them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds bannable to me.

[swampjedi]

The whole point of much of law is to defend the weak, the infirm, and yes, the stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as "this is legal because you're a moron if you fall for it." Tell that to the conmen and scammers in white-collar prisons. Sure, the one being scammed shares part of the blame, but it doesn't absolve the scammer of moral responsibility. I'm somewhat shocked that this attitude is so prevalent on this thread. I expect that you would be somewhat ticked if you got mugged and the cops said "It's your fault for being in this part of town, so we're not going to press charges."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my personal opinion, luring as defined above is item scamming, pure and simple. It's lying to another player for your own personal gain - so rule two directly applies.

[Nadril]

The whole point of much of law is to defend the weak, the infirm, and yes, the stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly, yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as "this is legal because you're a moron if you fall for it." Tell that to the conmen and scammers in white-collar prisons. Sure, the one being scammed shares part of the blame, but it doesn't absolve the scammer of moral responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you do go to jail for such scams if you get caught in real life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, the scammer is a part of the entire problem to blame. So is the person who got scammed, however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm somewhat shocked that this attitude is so prevalent on this thread. I expect that you would be somewhat ticked if you got mugged and the cops said "It's your fault for being in this part of town, so we're not going to press charges."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't relate this to the game. In real life there are ways to force the person to do what you want. In the wilderness you need to be in the wilderness and apply to the level limits. It is two very different thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my personal opinion, luring as defined above is item scamming, pure and simple. It's lying to another player for your own personal gain - so rule two directly applies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to say that, yes, "technicly" it is item scamming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, this is where you and me disagree however. I, for one, think that within the realm of a game scamming should not result in a ban. That is reserved for the top crimes, such as botting or cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, don't mistake it for me thinking that you should get away with scamming. To me simply banning a player is a game breaking idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Different games handle scamming differently. The best way, however, is to leave it up to the players. In EVE Online it means that you can set a bounty on a players head. In Lineage II the person could easily get blacklisted and have an incredibly hard time grouping up with people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is where the difference between real life and game fade away I think. To me you should be able to role-play as you want in a game -- even if it includes an evil player who tricks others. I'm not saying go and cheat or bot, but I'm saying that the idea should be allowed, and should be enforced inside of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps make it so that if someone is flagged as a "scammer" by jagex they can not go into towns for fear of getting attacked by cops. Make the life harder for the scammer or com artist, but possible. The person would still learn the idea that scamming may not be the best idea and it would be harder to go about their gaming life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another idea would to make people the in game equivilent of a "police officer". Somewhat like player mods but much more moderated. They would be able to get complaints on scams, and, if flaged ok by jagex, be allowed to attack these flaged criminals in towns or certain gaurded "hot spots". The criminal could fight back, mind you, but it would be an interesting sight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that being said though that kind of idea could almost never happen in runescape. I still stand by however that scamming should not be a bannable offense. Let the community work it out, make the persons name known on a blacklist (perhaps even stickied on the jagex's main site!) where jagex can list caught offenders. Sometimes the wrath of the player base can hurt almost as much as a ban.

[Mr_Cheese]

but not all luring is done in the wilderness, it is also done at daggonoth kings

[the_tallest1]

Figured I'd toss my 2 cents in here. Is it acceptable? No. I really dislike the whole concept and I'd rather not have to bother or associate with anyone who would actually do it. Is it legal? That depends on Jagex's enforcement of the rule about deceiving other players for personal gain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I made a post about this in a topic in Gen P2P but my personal perspective is that this would be a huge headache for Jagex if they tried to enforce this and were explicit about it in their rules. I think they leave it in a gray area in this regard so that they don't have to side either way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The acceptability and legality of luring (the item scamming kind) on TIF is no on both counts. It's not viewed as any different from item scamming and it's something that is not conducive to a friendly community.

[Nadril]

but not all luring is done in the wilderness, it is also done at daggonoth kings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But still, its done at a dangerous area. Would you go to sell something to someone in real life in a dark ally way or in the middle of a highway?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's called common sense.

[Kalphite_Queen]

Define luring, if you would?

Luring: Drawing a player into a dangerous area with the intention of killing them and profiting from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring is not always blatant, some people rely on others taking quick shortcuts through the wilderness. (I took a shortcut from monastery to edgeville once, before the barbarian village update*; cost me about 2m.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* This update allowed you to run through the fence, and save time without going through level 3 wilderness.

[Soma2035]

One of the J-Mods, (Mod Mark if memory serves me properly), stated VERY CLEARLY during the height of the Oziach lure, on RSOF, that pretending to trade someone while really luring them into the wilderness violates Runescape rule 2. This was confirmed 15 minutes later by Mod Andrew, who posted on the same thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since then, posts on RSOF have always been answered "Yes, it's item scamming." Player mods in game usually respond "no". Customer support has answered both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, yes it's scamming. Just because someone is doing something stupid doesn't make it right to deceive them. Anyone who utilizes trade lures for money is a pathetic, cheating moron who can not make it himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: This is only with regards to trade lures. I have nothing against PKing lures or the item drop lures. People who fall for these accept these risks as they WILLINGLY entered the wilderness, knowing that they accept the risk that they will be killed, unlike trade lures, which attempt to deceive the victim into thinking that the trade is occurring on the border of the wilderness, without actually being in the wilderness.

[Soma2035]

About Dagganoth King lures... I hate them, but I will not call them scamming. They have every right to be there, and every right to disrupt your combat strategy in hopes of causing a death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's pathetic. But no, it's not actually scamming.

[Kalphite_Queen]

One of the J-Mods, (Mod Mark if memory serves me properly), stated VERY CLEARLY during the height of the Oziach lure, on RSOF, that pretending to trade someone while really luring them into the wilderness violates Runescape rule 2. This was confirmed 15 minutes later by Mod Andrew, who posted on the same thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since then, posts on RSOF have always been answered "Yes, it's item scamming." Player mods in game usually respond "no". Customer support has answered both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, yes it's scamming. Just because someone is doing something stupid doesn't make it right to deceive them. Anyone who utilizes trade lures for money is a pathetic, cheating moron who can not make it himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: This is only with regards to trade lures. I have nothing against PKing lures or the item drop lures. People who fall for these accept these risks as they WILLINGLY entered the wilderness, knowing that they accept the risk that they will be killed, unlike trade lures, which attempt to deceive the victim into thinking that the trade is occurring on the border of the wilderness, without actually being in the wilderness.

This represents my views very well. And as far as the debate whether this is reportable, Andrew's word is law.

[Mayjest]

Is it acceptable? My all accounts of modern moral decency, no. Decieving your fellow man for your own (or your friends, and in turn your own) is not allowed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But by Jagex's rules? Yes. Because this is the wilderness. The wilderness (within runescape only, don't start quoting Wiki at me) is a place where only one rule counts: chaos. It is the land of Zamorak, the god of Chaos. So yes, luring is allowed withing gaming rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring at Dag kings? Who in their right mind would go there to trade? Any player with enough money/items worth scamming has the brains to find the knowledge database - and every member (ie, everyone at dks) can access it easily. I seriously doubt there are members who have only played through miniclip. Quite frankly, if you think that right next to Prime is good place to trade your Party Hat for 50k more than normal, you NEED to lose it, you NEED to quit, and hopefully you'll make the community better for the rest of us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I view luring as something like the Darwin Awards - those who get lured (and quit) thereby improve the userbase by removing themselves from it.

[wolfboy]

There are other ways to lure, aside from the promise of a trade. Luring could be as simple as "Follow me." I've actually seen people follow others blindly in to the wilderness with out being promised any monetary gain from it. To fall for a lure like this shows a great deal of ignorance about the game in general and the wild specifically, and would probably only work on new players; leading me to wonder what sort of "loot" the lurer would actually gain. However, such a lure would not be scamming, as nothing is being promised.

[fakeitormakeit]

I have never lured before and I think its pretty cheap but its acceptable because who ever is the victim should have used common sense and an educated guess to predict whats going to happen next.

[Kalphite_Queen]

I have never lured before and I think its pretty cheap but its acceptable because who ever is the victim should have used common sense and an educated guess to predict whats going to happen next.

Not all lures are blatantly obvious.

[Danqazmlp]

Personally i think luring is just downright cowardly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was lured back when i was lvl 80 ish and got killed for a blue h'mask, i didnt even know what luring was at the time so i didnt know i was making any sort of mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My lure wasn't a 'come here to trade me'. The guy said can you hold these vials and come with me to the monastry fountain to fill them for me. When i folowed him i got attacked at that point between the monastry and edgeville.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also the wilderness warning doesent come up if you have already been in the wilderness recently, and as i used to be an abbys rcer at the time i didnt get the warning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been to embarised to tell people that i actually got lured and use excuses like i lost connection at a random while wearing the mask to explain how i lost it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think there should be warning around about luring, because there is about scamming, but nowere have i seen a jagex warning about lurers. Alot of higher lvls know about it, but alot of lower lvls would not know what you are on about if you mention luring.

[warren211]

My response (PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It depends on how you lure. If you promise you won't kill them or they won't die or if you say your doing something which you really haven't then its a scam. So taking all that stuff out, your left with this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Player:I'll buy [item]

 

 

 

Lurer: Sure, I'm in the wilderness

 

 

 

Player: Why are you there?

 

 

 

Lurer: Because I'm pking

 

 

 

Player: Ok!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, anyone who is stupid enough to still come to the wilderness deserves to die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So therefore:

 

 

 

Any lurer who disguises his acts is a scammer.

 

 

 

Any player who knows hes being lured and still goes, deserves to die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we can all agree on that. And I'm NOT saying anyone who got lured desevred it. I'm saying anyone who knew very well that this person was luring and knew the signs and was still stupid enough to walk in is totally deservant of their consequences.