Perspective - Jagex - "high level" updates.

[NETTY]

I think anyone over 110 combat in this game has seen it more than once - a "high level" update promised from Jagex. And more often than not, what do we usually get? What seems to be crap. Or, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the highscores I think its very possible to put into perspective what "high level" means to Jagex. Here are some facts:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Currently the high scores table can list up to 1,000,000 players.
 
 
 
In order to be ranked in :
 
 
 
Attack requires level 60 and have 282,000 experience.
 
 
 
Strength requires level 61 and 302,000 experience.
 
 
 
Defense requires level 52 and 131,000 experience.
 
 
 
Hitpoints requires level 59 and 265,000 experience.
 
 
 
Prayer requires level 38 and 30,000 experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plugging these numbers into a simple combat calc, you get a combat level of 71.. This is to be ranked DEAD LAST in Runescape. So.. We have our little 71 being ranked last in RS.. Since the max combat in Runescape is 126, the median between first (126) and last (71) would be around 99, and anything above 99 combat can be considered HIGH combat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, what about skills? Well, lets look at agility and runecrafting, two skills mentioned and speculated about in the recent BTS update from Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since we have 1,000,000 possible ranks for RC/Agility players

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Agility: About 830,000 ranked players.
 
 
 
RC'ing: About 650,000 ranked players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does this mean? Well, it means that out of 1,000,000 POSSIBLE ranks, just getting into these skills puts you in the top 83% for agility, and top 65% for RC'ing, at levels that wouldn't even get you ranked for attack, strength, defence, hitpoints, or prayer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Going by ranks, in order to be in the top 10% (ranked 100,000) for agility and runecrafting you would need:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Agility: Level 58 and 237,000 experience.
 
 
 
RC'ing: Level 53 and 144,000 experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all reality, are those levels very impressive? No, not really. BUT, they represent the TOP 10% in all of runescape. That means if you have just 53 RC'ing, you can expect to beat 90% of the players around you in that skill..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does this hold true? Doubtful. If I walk into fally bank W2 ranked 100,000 in RC'ing, I'm sure more than 10% of the players there will be ranked ahead of me. However, when was the last time you saw Jagex actually sitting in a bank checking these kinds of things? Been a while by my count.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As such, when Jagex is considering what is "high level" in runescape, I would presume they use their HIGH scores feature to return numbers similar to these, and release updates accordingly. Coming from a fansite like tipit, we need to be reminded that in general we actually represent a very small portion of the game (around 10% or less?) when we are making post after post complaining about the lack of "high level" updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please realize, this is just food for thought/discussion, and I know there are flaws in a lot of the things I said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For instance, the experience percentage and exponential growth of experience needed at higher levels does play a factor, but in general thats something much harder to calculate, and I believe would simply work to make the average level lower as far as updates are concerned.

[gda_scooby]

I haven't checked the maths, but a good post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you say, we on this forum actively follow the game, and are not 'casual' users. Therefore we are probably not representative of the user base in total.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, they are a business and will add to the game where it will affect the most users, and not neccesarily those on this type of site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

G

[Viv]

i agree cause when i browse around tipit i'm avarage or below avarage in skills for a level 91..but when i look up other 91s ingame i'm pretty good in skills..

 

 

 

when i look around me in a bank i see a bunch of red/orange/yellow/green so = not high level. and with pest control people can get a high combat without doing nothing like this level 103 that is not even ranked in overall.

 

 

 

and it really depends where you hang out as to what ranks people will have in x skill. such as if i'm in rouges den i think that people will be mostly ahead of me in cooking. but if i'm woodcutting at yews then a bunch will be below me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'm pretty sure that they do use the highscores. they don't want to make an update that only 5% of people can do. and since most of rs is pretty combat focused it explains why the combat requirements are higher then the skills but i think that they target midlevels anyway.

[rooneyrules0]

To be honest, the updates will always be aimed at low levels.. why? To make money, every new membership is another $5 a month for them, and the levels that usually become members in 60-80 combat, and so the updates are aimed for them, to get them intrested.

[Mayjest]

Those numbers have always made sense to me, and it's what has been my general aim in RS. I remember how happy I was a few years ago when I first got myself into the top 50,000 over levels, and I had a few individual skills in the top 35,000. Now, after an 18 month absence and a few months catch up, I'm barely back in the top 100k and I have no skills in their top 50k. When I left, my combat was high average (87), now it's low average (90).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet I see the higher level updates of recent times (ME part2, some of RFD, etc) as more difficult that the higher level updates of two years ago (monkey madness). So Jagex are making harder things for people, it's just getting harder at the same rate that the average gets better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If someone is a genius at maths, they can use my experience to try and work out that average rate of growth or something, but that might not be possible.

[jedidude77]

whao, i always kinda thought that the average combat (among like members and people who have put at least some time into RS) was probably "low" in the eyes of most but i never put as much thought into it as you :wink: nice job! :

[oddfaery2]

just a small speculation-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're going to talk about the top 10% of a skill based on how many players are ranked, and there aren't 1 million ranked, you should really look at just the top 10% based on the number of players ranked instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if there were 830k in agility high scores you should look at the top 83k (level 60)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and if there are 650k players in the RC high scores, then the top 65k (level 58).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I realize the rankings are LISTED up through 1 million, but there just aren't that many ranked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my 2ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãââ worth.

[quitthegame]

Your post is full of unwarranted assumptions about jagex's methodology. If I had to make a guess about jagex's views of the high score list, based on the updates in the past year I'd say they think high level updates are aimed at anyone who is ranked on that list, at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plugging these numbers into a simple combat calc, you get a combat level of 71.. This is to be ranked DEAD LAST in Runescape. So.. We have our little 71 being ranked last in RS.. Since the max combat in Runescape is 126, the median between first (126) and last (71) would be around 99, and anything above 99 combat can be considered HIGH combat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The proper median average would be the combat level where half of all players are below you, and half are above. In a strictly mathematical sense, that number is the median average of 126 and 71, it's also the mean average of 126 and 71, but it's not useful to average two numbers together. The point of averages is to average across the total population. Not to mention, only accounting for those players who are ranked, leaves out the majority of players. Here's an example of how your math is irrelevant:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can tip.it determine what the average person in the world has in wealth? The richest person on the Forbes 500 list has about 80 billion. The poorest is somewhere under 10 billion. Take the median of 80 billion and 10 billion, that's 45 billion. Anyone under 45 billion is horribly poor... pity them profusely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last I saw, there were about 8.5 million total accounts. That means that anyone ranked in attack, is already in the top 12% of all accounts for that skill. How many of those accounts are actually active? Hard to say. But it's also hard to say how many of the ranked accounts are actually active. That's why the easiest way to figure out what Jagex means by "high level update" is to actually just look at the recent updates they called high level.

[NETTY]

just a small speculation-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're going to talk about the top 10% of a skill based on how many players are ranked, and there aren't 1 million ranked, you should really look at just the top 10% based on the number of players ranked instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if there were 830k in agility high scores you should look at the top 83k (level 60)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and if there are 650k players in the RC high scores, then the top 65k (level 58).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I realize the rankings are LISTED up through 1 million, but there just aren't that many ranked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my 2ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãââ worth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have if no other skill had 1 million players ranked in the skill, but since there are, we can assume that those 1 million players actually do exist in the game in some form, they just haven't gotten enough exp in agility/runecrafting to show up. They should, however, still be counted. Just like the thousands of players who do not showup after those 1 million should be counted, but since I can't confirm exactly how many there are, I ignored them completely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you could estimate pretty accurately and say there are another 500k character made who don't appear on the prayer highscores, but no one (except Jagex) can prove they exist. However, I can prove the 370k players not ranked in agility exist, because they are ranked in other skills. Hence why I used them in my calculations. In all honesty, it probably wouldn't throw the #'s off that much anyway, especially in agility where more players are ranked.

[Mayjest]

Your post is full of unwarranted assumptions about jagex's methodology. If I had to make a guess about jagex's views of the high score list, based on the updates in the past year I'd say they think high level updates are aimed at anyone who is ranked on that list, at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it is a 'high scores' table, after all. The fact that in some skills you can be on it at level 30(?) is obsolete. Anyway, you've still multiplied your skill by a factor of 30. :P

[Berrakus]

I think you are reading way too much into this. Jagex just likes all of there features to be utilized. Agility and Runecrafting are two very under- utilized skills and Jagex is offering new alternatives to try to get more people training these skills. When is the last time that you saw Jagex come up with a new and faster way to train Fletching or Cooking? Unfortunately, Jagex keeps trying to get people interested in Agility, but they just keep failing miserably at it.

[jonno53]

just to put my little bit in, although you say 99 and above is high leveled, i am level 99 myself and arount the top 10-15% for most combat skills (check my high scores out, and youll see)

 

 

 

99 is not the median combat, to find the med (in the top million players alone) you should look for the 500,000th stat (50%):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

attack - 68

 

 

 

strength - 70

 

 

 

defence - 62

 

 

 

hitpoints - 68

 

 

 

mage - 60

 

 

 

prayer - 45

 

 

 

range - 58

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i chucked that into tipits calc, and the median level is 82

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

please check your estimates before you judge the median level (the high level as you say) and remember that more players are bunched between combat 70-90

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

therefore, i suppose 82 is the more likely 'high Level' player, as only 10% are above 99 as you suggested

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* i am not against your arguement, many 'high leveled' quests are quite easy. however, you have to remember that if jagex make quests along the same difficulty as the fight pits versus the jad(not a quest but not far off for some), then only a minority of their several hundered thousand members can actually do them

[malo2]

we do need more high lvl quests, and who wouldn't want them? if you have really finished all low lvl quests, then theres no way you aren't high enough to start doing the advanced quests.

[jessy87]

99 = high lvl? no, im sorry i totally make fun of lvl 110's for being low lvls.

[yomom1919]

99 = high lvl? no, im sorry i totally make fun of lvl 110's for being low lvls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

99 is the top 50%. I'd consider top 20% or higher to be a high level. He considered top 50% to be high.

[jessy87]

 

99 = high lvl? no, im sorry i totally make fun of lvl 110's for being low lvls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

99 is the top 50%. I'd consider top 20% or higher to be a high level. He considered top 50% to be high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

id consider lvl 92 in all melee stats and hp to be a high combat, so lowest lvl whom id consider high would be 105 with 1 prayer.

[krisc6]

99 = high lvl? no, im sorry i totally make fun of lvl 110's for being low lvls.

 

 

 

yeah you would with combat stats like that.i cant even do freminik isles(not because of crafting) because my combats only 73

[yomom1919]

 

 

99 = high lvl? no, im sorry i totally make fun of lvl 110's for being low lvls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

99 is the top 50%. I'd consider top 20% or higher to be a high level. He considered top 50% to be high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

id consider lvl 92 in all melee stats and hp to be a high combat, so lowest lvl whom id consider high would be 105 with 1 prayer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But your basing it off your level. In school, the top 20% of GPA is considered "high" by colleges. Since my GPA is more around the top 5%, i would consider someone with a top 6-20% GPA low. However, statistically, in the top 20%, you are still greater than 1 out of every 5 people. Analysts would consider that "good".

[Greedom1]

I think you are reading way too much into this. Jagex just likes all of there features to be utilized. Agility and Runecrafting are two very under- utilized skills and Jagex is offering new alternatives to try to get more people training these skills. When is the last time that you saw Jagex come up with a new and faster way to train Fletching or Cooking? Unfortunately, Jagex keeps trying to get people interested in Agility, but they just keep failing miserably at it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The agility shortcuts were way too long overdue. They need to expand on these and instead of offering newer ways to train agility, offer new uses for the skill. Any attempt to do otherwise is an exercise in futility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On topic: I think the methodology of the poster isn't the issue. Rather, just the too often understated point that Jagex's idea of a "high level" isn't exactly the same as ours.

[Viv]

thats the thing.. i would say a 120+ is a high level and i'm level 91 is a mid level. but a level 40 might say i'm a high combat player..noone can define what a high level player is. and i'd say 30 is not high but alot of people just don't train runecrafting but tons of people train combat. so..i'd say that the person with 70 runecrafting is more impressive then a person with level 80 attack the ranking makes it more high level. and i'd say look at the person ranked 250000 is a high level as a 25% is above avarage bt not overly high.

[Saru Inc]

Well, I agree with the first post, it make sense with all the crapp updates we've been getting.

[12pure34]

I myself am 92 combat. I consider myself above average. With a 1450 total, I may say, I have most requirements to be able to do everything in the game. Just a few skills like herblore for a quest. Or a few combat levels for the strongest monsters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to admit, the highest level updates are rare. But if you look at a few updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The newly added rune rock @ Fremmy Ilse.

 

 

 

The DK's aren't that old.

 

 

 

The KQ isn't TO old.. and still though and worthwhile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But these are fairly old updates. I say a new one is nesecary. But this one should be.. HIGH, as in High for skills. I am talking about needing 70+ in a certain skill. Not in cooking.. nor in mining. But more something like smithing, to give a boost to this ''rusty'' skill. Or perhaps agility as they promise in the new BTS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I'd like to see a new high update in the area around F2P skills. Combining skills to revamp the entire skill. Give people a reason to train old skills, to combine them with new skills. Crosslinks they are called.

[NETTY]

Hehe, all of the discussion/arguments about what constitutes being "high level" and where the "median" is does nothing but strengthen the overall idea of perspective in dealing with Jagex's releases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, what they deem as high level is all that matters, although this is a good time waster while we wait for Jagex to catchup, eh? :P

[Tbfgraphx14]

To be ranked overall You need a total level, not a combat?

[meili]

:shock: Jagex simply wants more people to be able to use their content. Updates are mostly aimed at lower level people so that content isn't "wasted" by having only 0.01% of players (level 120s) using them.