Huta

I never, ever use the ignore list. Just pretend to occasionally. Funner that way. :D

Actually It Is True... Not A Joke :shock: Mhmm...that's why you just "happened" to bring an obscure item to an even more obscure location and use it on an obscure NPC. :-k Oh, and the entire "bananas" thing. :lol:

:lol: Can't believe people are falling for this...

Just a cheap marketing trick. Too late, it didn't work for me. Just payed all the money I won't be giving Jagex to Blizzard. Gnome mage ftw. :thumbsup: nooo -.- BE priest ftw noob lawl! cross realm Bg = i'm coming for u imo Actually, I did consider rolling a dwarf priest, but I remembered I hate support and shadow priest ain't my thing. Besides, I love dps machines. \

The main problem isn't skillers, but how completely easily autoers could counter that. Seeing as you can get combat 5 without even leaving tutor island, banning every level 3 simply makes the botters release combat 4 bots. I really don't care about skillers, even though I have one; if they were the thing keeping autoers in play, then let them go. But they aren't, and that suggestion wouldn't accomplish a thing.

If you read my words carefully you will see that I don't suggest getting rid of trading altogether, just the ability to buy using cash directly from another player. You can still trade by exchanging items, ie barter. The scenario you have given is what lootshare is designed to cater for. Also, if you read carefully, you will see that all my suggestions remove the ability to transfer, either directly or indirectly, cash to another player. The Pker will still get his victims items, the player dying will still be able to get his items back and you will still be able to trade. The only thing that you will not get returned is cash. I cannot see how this will adversely affect anyone. After all, who, with any sense would go PKing or monster hunting carrying several million in cash. I'm sorry, but your post was a bit unclear. So basically, you're suggesting that gp be made untradeable except through the grand exchange, forcing people to barter with items when dealing directly? What will that accomplish? RWTs will simply use some other currency to transfer funds - say, instead of 15m gp, 15m worth of yew logs or a few whips. Making a bartering system will simply change the exchanged item from coins to something else. You're just changing the color of the problem, at the cost of a whole lotta playability. Oh yeah, if you think lootshare is the cureall, it ain't. I don't want to make 25 trips to the KQ with a friend, get a chain drop, and be forced to tell him "oh well, game sucks, I can't share." Sorry, but no. The day direct trading gets limited like that is the day RuneScape dies. Period.

Just a cheap marketing trick. Too late, it didn't work for me. Just payed all the money I won't be giving Jagex to Blizzard. Gnome mage ftw. :thumbsup:

Earn a phat through spinning, and you'll have just earned the Geek of the Century award. :lol:

^^ Hey mate; That discussion is over, we've already discussed it, and I think we both came to a very mature conclusion over it. It's history now, so I think we'd both be happy if you'd just let it rest. You might want to read a bit further into the thread.

Yah, and it's perfectly okay if I'm teamed and killed by a clan of lvl 60's with 90ish strength each and they screamed 'PWN3D, N00B!!one!1!@" in my face when I die with my armor. And it would be honorable for a pure to fight without a weapon if they keep hitting 15's on me! Seriously, the whole concept of pures and honor is shot. Why? The whole concept of a pure is based on a lie! You hide your super high strength with a low combat lvl! Hey, that's not quite fair. Sure, I might not like pures, but claiming they have low defence just to "hide" their offensive skills is just crazy. They do it because arguably it does better in pvp - if they were hiding their stats, they wouldn't run around with names like "strpooner1003" or "oox 3hiter xoo".

I agree. Think about the problem for a minute. What is the root cause, is it : a) the gold farmers/bots that infest the yew tree areas, fishing spots etc OR B) the real world traders that employ the gold farmers/bots. The answer is obviously (B). Make it impossible for the RWT to give their customers the RS gold in game and they will give up, and hey presto 99% of the so-called bots will disappear. Not all the bots will disappear because there will always be some players who auto for their own benefit (as was the case in RSC and the early days of RS2). Jagex obviously looks at the problem in the same way. The Duel Areana was a prime mathod for RWTs to give their customers the RS gold they have purchased. Thus something needed to be done about it. This they did, and unfortunately upset a small percentage of their own customers for the benfit of the overall customer base, who were screaming at Jagex to do something about the problem. If we take this another step forward then Jagex are going to attack the other methods that the RWT use. One of these is the up-coming Grand Exchange. I can now see Jagex making this the only way to buy items by removing the ability to buy things in direct player to player trades. By doing this they can quite easily keep a check on all trades and soon spot anomalies, like someone buying a bronze dagger for 10M gp which would obviously be a real world trade. The player to player trade would remain, but you would only be able to barter, eg. "buy" a rune scimitar for 100 yew logs As far as drop trading is concerned - that one is easy. If you drop GP it is destroyed. Same goes death whether by monster or PKing, all cash dropped is destroyed. These methods will reduce the ability of RWT to deliver to their customers drastically, but will have very little impact on the overall RS population. I know what they intended - and you're right, stop the trades between the real world traders and their customers would put an end to the autoing problem. This update didn't do that. It would have been simple to put a "margin of difference" on stakes, making it impossible to stake another person with too much of a difference in stake value. To be honest, it wouldn't be much different than the system they already have, seing as it forces you to balance your 3k stakes right now. All they needed to do is raise the maximum stake back to infinity, and you'd still have fixed the problem without nuking that part of the game (and a good number of the players that use it). They didn't do that. That alone is the main reason I don't trust Jagex any more, as well as the reason this non-staker is quitting the game; I REFUSE to pay for and support a game in which its management doesn't give a hoot about common logic or the wishes of the very people that keep them employed. Oh, and as for your suggestions; you really think removing direct trading, killing pking, and hurting any player with the misfortune to die from a monster has "very little impact on the overall RS population"? Please. To quote you (as well as the guy you took the quote from); If you remove direct trading, what happens when you're hitting the GWD with a couple friends and get a shard? You can't trade the item, you can't split the cash profits afterwards - basically, your only form of transferral between players is through this Grand Exchange, which looks less and less appetizing the more I hear about it. Or what happens when you want to swap items for items, such as trading my nature runes for my friend's super attacks potions, without going through all the hassle of selling those items on the grand exchange and buying from others? Sure, autoers are hurting the game. But let's not let them totally destroy this game by taking a Orwell-esque approach to game security, and that exactly what you're suggesting. If the cost of removing those little bald men in green pants is turning this game into a bad futuristic sci-fi flick with dictators, restriction on basic gameplay, and fear that you'll get mistaken for a cheater, I'll take saiotang1555 any day.

Jeez, can't you understand this? If the pure asks the impure to inconvience himself, he's asking for an unfair fight, because it swings the odds in the pure's favor simply through the way the two accounts are built. Is that hard to grasp? The ONLY way you get an "honorable" (you mean the word "fair" here) fight between a pure and an impure is if BOTH accounts are wearing the gear they are built to use - the pure in his pure gear, the impure in his impure gear, so they both are using their stats in the best way they can. Removing anything swings the odds in the other player's favor, making it UNFAIR. Unless you want to box. Boxing is fair for both people, because it doesn't matter what your stats are built for - you're not using them to their best potential. And even then, everybody knows pures suck at boxing... I think you need to look in the dictionary as to what the word fair means. "Fair" means "unbiased, not favoring one or the other." I don't call weakening the impure by that much "unbiased"...

Sorry, but your logic fails. Don't think that the fact that woodcutting is a skill makes it immune to screwing. Sure, they can't just "remove" woodcutting. Did they remove the duel arena? No. But they still did effectively kill it. Besides, it's already impractical to woodcut for profit. Profit made from it doesn't even compare to other skills, like runecrafting, or hunting. Nobody gets rich off woodcutting, but botters. Yes, there are differences between woodcutting and the duel arena. But trust me, if Jagex didn't mind destroying something as popular as the duel arena, they won't have a problem "reworking" woodcutting if they think they need to. And their track record doesn't make that "rework" look too promising.

Duel arena is the worst update in this game's history. Accomplishes nothing and destroys a lot. Beats pure essence by a longshot.

How you gonna stake now? It's dead. :? :cry: But yeah, it does matter what type of staking you plain to do.

Even in Jagex' eyes, that doesn't do a thing for or against autoing. Just a bit more coding for the botters. Nah, when they do something, it'll probably be much more serious than that.

Your logic still fails. A pure account's stats are built for combat without armor - low or nonexistant defence, choosing to [bleep]e strength and attack instead. A non-pure stats are built to use armor. The only way to ge ta fair fight between a pure and an impure is to either wear the best armor and weapon you can, or box, because a fight without armor isn't fair on an account built to use it.

Good question...are they?

I'm certain it's old news to pretty much the entire RuneScape fanbase that on Tuesday, November 20th, 2007, Jagex Ltd. released a highly controversial update that in effect destroyed the entire staking section of RuneScape. For the most part, it's only affected that one segment of the playerbase, and responses to this update reflect that. While some non-stakers (such as myself) have opposed this update (strongly), it's been primarily the staker base that has been speaking up. But why? Sure, sure, it's only a bunch of stupid pures and stakers that never experience the rest of the game that are affected. If they actually cared about the game, then they'd just move on to some other activity, right? It's only the duel arena. Let me get this straight - I am NOT a staker. Yes, I used to pk a lot, but I never got into staking, so please don't say I'm just mad that Jagex took away my income. They didn't. Then why do I oppose it? It's kinda shortsighted to simply blow this off as something that doesn't affect us, and given some time, people will just adjust, like they did with the pure essence update and other epic failures of Jagex' in the past. To anybody that looks at this update, it's plainly obvious this does nothing but slightly incovinience real world traders, at the expense of thousands of legetimate players, many of whom simply played for this very minigame. Is that how far Jagex is willing to go? For the purpose of merely limiting one of the options cheaters use, they basically eliminated a part of the game that has been around for literally years. Autoers, computer controlled accounts, simply repeat a a repetitive task over and over, thousands of times, collecting resources to sell for RS gold. This gold was then collected and transfered to players that payed real money for this ingame gold. One of the ways the macros transfered this money to the buyers was through the duel arena. That's right. Despite Jagex' claims that they "went for the root", all they did was take a stab at the messenger. They didn't fix a thing, other than forcing the traders to find some other way to transfer funds, and believe me, those aren't hard to find. Personally, I haven't even given it much thought, but off the top of my head, I can come up with at least 6 alternatives they can use besides drop-trading or the duel arena. It's not hard. They killed off an old, well-established, major part of our game just to limit their options by one. Wow. What else does this update show? That they're willing to cut even popular, major parts out in this crusade against autoers, even if it is for minor results. It shows they don't care how upset what they remove makes their players, and through that, it shows NOTHING is untouchable. Question is, what's next? Let me list a few things that could be the next to hit the axe. 1) Woodcutting. Yes, woodcutting. Sure, it sounds farfetched. If it hadn't been for Tuesday's update, I'd have called you nuts if you'd have suggested they might mess with a skill like that. Now, I'm not so sure. Look at the past for a second. Jagex appearently has already come to the conclusion that redesigning things, even in very major ways with possible negative consequences, is fine, if it takes a stab at autoers in some way. Remember the pure essence update? Remember the recent shop update? They show that one of the ways Jagex plans to combat botters is to attack the ways they gather resources in the first place. Woodcutting stands out as a prime example of a botter's favorite skill. Just take a walk through any f2p world, and to lesser visited spots in members' worlds. If Jagex plans to attack just one commonly macroed skill, woodcutting would be it. How they're going to change this skill, I don't know, but I would be shocked if this skill comes out of this "war" unscathed, and looking at past failures, like pure essence and the duel arena, I almost don't want to know. 2) Flax. This one doesn't seem quite as far-off as the past possibility does, and if it were changed, I don't think that many people would mind. Yeah, a few newish members might be out of a job, but it has nowhere the reprocussions of say woodcutting, or staking. Still, it shouldn't be ignored. Say Jagex were to remove every flax plant in the game, and in their place use something like the recent changes to battlestaves and seaweed, it would be only a temporary solution. Who likes spinning flax? In comparision to fletching, not many. All making flax unpickable would do is move those macros to some other area, say spinning flax instead of picking it? It couldn't be hard for botters to pick that flax up, especially with the Grand Exchange on the horizion. Then what? Remove flax entirely and have stores with infinate bowstring stocks? Sure, it might not be the worst update, but it's just another innocent part of the game that gets cut, and unless it has a major and direct improvement on the macro problem, I'd just rather not see it change. Forgive me for saying so, but for some reason I don't seem too trusting of Jagex' judgement lately... 3) Inter-player trading This idea has been bouncing around for a while now. People have been debating if perhaps this Grand Exchange that is planned will be the cue for Jagex to remove direct trading entirely. For now, all we can do is wait and hope... 4, 5, and 6) Dragons and Crafting, RuneCrafting, and Prayer These are mostly interrelated. Everybody knows that dragons, both green and blue, are popular with sweatshop farmers and autoers. Runecrafting also has seen it's fair share of problems, with an unnerving number of runecrafting bots being seen. I know, most of this is guesswork. At this point in time, it's impossible to predict anything for sure. But has what I've said been so hard to believe in light of the latest update? The duel arena has lost most of it's purpose just in the name of slowing down RWT...what about the origins of those funds in the first place? I know a lot of people may not have been as upset by the changes to the arena as perhaps the people that used it frequently, but I need everybody to put away the "Haha, stakers got p00nt" sterotypes. Yeah, you may not like pkers or stakers, and yeah, there may be some merit to that at times. That's not the point. This doesn't just affect stakers. This is nothing but showing what Jagex is willing to do. Justified or not, is this what you want to see happen to this game? Just some food for thought.

Like I said earlier, the reason you say it's unfair is simply because your stats, as a pure, suck. That's not unfair, that's the consequence of your actions. I don't know if you're going to understand this, but it is NOT unfair unless you had NO CHOICE but to become a pure. But you DO have a choice. You have full control over your account, you have the ability to decide if you wanted to be pure or not, so it is NOT unfair that your stats suck. Sure, you might have a disadvantage. That's not unfair, because that disadvantage was chosen. It would only be unfair if Jagex said "Oh, people that register during the hours of X to X will have crappy accounts, people that register between the hours of Y to Y will own." But that's not what Jagex did. The same options are open to you as are open to every other player in this game. Does that make sense?

Most of your solutions are just temporary fixes. Ban all level 3 accounts? What's to stop the macros from getting combat 4 in five minutes before they even leave tutorial island? Different codes? They already have gold farmers, all they'd need is someone whose job is to type in the anti-macro code after each bot is created, then turn them over to the computer for control after that. We don't need temporary fixes. Temporary fixes got the Duel Arena screwed, and for what? Making it slightly harder for a rwt? Sorry, but most of these suggestions just won't work.

If someone has full rune and you can't hit anything on them that does not mean they should remove it! They have the armor-why should they take it of because someone thinks its unfair? your idea of fair makes no sence, aru you make no sense. what's up with people and not being able to read. i didnt say just caues someone has full rune then they shoudl take it off right when they start the fight. i said...for the 34,000th time....that it's BS when a person with defence brags how much they own a pure, then refuse to take off any armor to make it more fair. thats what i said. who else wants to hear it again? anyone? you make no sense. what's up with people and not being able to read. i didnt say just caues someone has pure stats then the other person shoudl take it off right when they start the fight. i said...for the 34,000th time....that it's BS when a pure brags how much they own a impure, then refuse to take off their weapon to make it more fair. thats what i said. who else wants to hear it again? anyone? Armor is to an impure what a weapon is to a pure. Next time you want an impure to take off his armor in a fight, take off your weapon. After all, you want it to be fair, right?

1. The game has always been focused on a younger audience. We all know this. Besides, if it wasn't you probably wouldn't even be here to write this fantastically persuasive argument that has changed my view of this issue wholly. 2. Who gives a [bleep]? Everyone knows they're going to either fix it, or a handful of people will stop playing. That $200-300 a month in membership fees is not going to bankrupt Jagex. 3. Macros have always been filling up the game. I can bet you that there was a higher percentage of macros back in RuneScape classic compared to now. The game has lasted 7 years with macros in it, I'm pretty sure it can survive another 5. 4. Uhh of course they do? If you have some grandiose plan how to eliminate/disable a large number of macro accounts on a regular basis without effecting any legit players in any way then I'm pretty sure TB&JT would be all ears. I'm [bleep] sick and tired of all these half-baked dimwitted threads going on and on about the impending apocalypse of RuneScape due to one stinking update they don't like. $200-$300? I don't know where you've been, but take a look around - even non-stakers, like me, are quitting. This isn't your everyday half-baked quest. This cut a major part of RuneScape out of the game at the cost of merely inconviencing gold farmers, and if you can't trust Jagex to use common sense on something as old and mainstream as the duel arena, then they don't deserve my money. I'm not going to play this game in fear that they'll take out woodcutting because macros love it.

Oh, I know that. But one of the most important things that a company can have is the goodwill and trust of its customers, and this isn't helping that in any way. I think it fair to say that the vast majority of the players of RuneScape, while maybe not liking Jagex' seeming attitude towards autoers and/or the quality of some of their updates, nobody expected them to simply destroy a major segment of their game for little reason. Like I said earlier, if I can't trust Jagex to at least use a sembelence of logic, they don't need (and won't get) my money. It'll go to some other company that can provide.

That's my view, exactly. I'm not a staker. Pker, yes, staker no. The only reason I am quitting is because it's impossible to place any sort of trust in Jagex after this. There are plenty of other games out there that beat this one in so many aspects there's no reaspon to keep playing a game that you have to worry over your favorite activities for fear that they will be removed in the holy name of "stopping cheaters".