Is runescape salvageable?

[Wkw]

I bet this gets locked...

 

 

 

 

 

BUT

 

 

 

Two years ago, the game was great. There were some cheets, but not as many as there were now. Updates were great, CS was great, community was great..

 

 

 

 

 

But now, Jagex has gone money hungry. They don't care about what their older users want, they would rather have 50 new players then 20 old, long term players.. They want money.

 

 

 

Now, I think it is more about quantity then quality. Most people join f2p before they become members. I know I did.

 

 

 

If you were a new player, would you start paying $5 a month after seeing how the free world is treated?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, do you think runescape is salvageable?

[IAm314159]

Cheats? Jagex should ban those who used them!

 

Anyway, I agree with you, wkw427. Runescape has lost that punch that I remember when I first joined (F2P). It just simply is different. The old Runescape is simply a memory, an imprint that is irremovable yet removed one step away from our hand.

[Solidus_77]

Get your facts straight before you make assumptions. There are still updates that are targeting the higher leveled players. Best example would be godwars dungeon.

 

 

 

Also, you need to take into account that massive updates take a lot longer to make because they are so complex

 

 

 

Finally, if they introduce new items, new equipment, these will have a huge effect on the game. This means more work for quality assurance team and therefore the update will take longer.

 

 

 

Basically, higher level updates tend to be a lot harder to make and therefore you shouldn't expect jagex to release higher level updates and lower level updates at an equal ratio (or anywhere close)

[Stragomagus]

As of now if you watch the numbers on the page of the main Runescape site you will notice that Runescape is dieing a slow death as the mindset of the majority of players begin to change. What I mean by this is the many bugs that are constantly talked about in the rants forum there, the ones that are not spam at least. the vast majority of players in runescape are starting to look past all the distractions that Jagex put out there and are beginning to demand that all these little errors be fixed instead of new additions being added to the game.

 

 

 

The highest i have seen the number on the front page is less than 200k on a constant basis, in the past few months starting June, now and in the 60k range during off-hours. If Jagex was fixing anything those numbers would not be so low. I am sure we all remember, for those that have been around that long at least, when it was 400k+ at peak hours and still 200k+ during off- hours.

 

 

 

I am currently 90 fishing and I am starting to notice that I am fishing slower than I did when I was in the 60s on through the 70s.

 

 

 

Mining- This particular skill has been left behind since the Runescape classic days and that skill is mining. Although some skills have been updated in recent years mining has not, yes I am aware of the keldagrim update and it is barely used because of how it is set up, had an overhaul which it is in serious need of. take a look at "coal" this is the most random rock in all of mining as you can either one-hit the thing or sit there for 3+ minutes pounding away at one.

 

 

 

Fishing - as was stated above some of the fishing skill needs to be overhauled instead of bringing in more additions like the " barbarian mini-game" which has really devalued quite a few people's achievements in the skill. Some suggestions are coming out that the people who earned the exp previously should have their exp increased based on how much exp you can get per hour there and in some cases just plain doubled.

 

 

 

woodcutting - Although it really isn't noticed much, but the recent update about the removal of the "axe-heads" when they break off still has not been done as I just recently had one break off 2-3 weeks ago and the same goes with the mining "pick-axes" flying off as well. The respawn times of some trees need to be reworked and the "ent" random needs to be completely removed as it is entirely ineffective the vast majority of time against all of the "robots" out there and it just annoys all of the normal players.

 

 

 

Runecrafting - the ZMI altar is nothing more than a distraction from the update that was promised over a year ago now such as the "blood" and "soul" altar. there was once a message stating that they were craftable, but to this day we have not seen them come out. another thing that was a blow to the runecrafting skill was the wilderness-ditch, you know whom that thing was for, which has slowed abyss runecrafting down quite a bit.

 

 

 

Magic- the vast majority of spells in both FTP and PTP are unused and instead of adding new spells which makes old ones completely useless why not rework the entire skill and make every spell worth using. Many are starting to suggest that the damage caps should be removed and that the level of damage should be comparable to your magic level and whatever bonuses come from the clothing, by the way this is just like the strength skill.

 

 

 

If you want you could keep the damage cap and give each specific spell a "special" effect that is unique to that spell-type only.

 

 

 

Range- Look above at magic

 

 

 

Player-killing - FTP pking is completely fine as it is, but unfortunately pay-to-play is beginning to reach the constant "one-hit" zone with it's weapons while still only having 99 hp. Many are beginning to suggest that the every weapon be entirely reworked to involve strategy instead of whoever gets in the first hit.

 

 

 

Another thing that they did wrong with the wilderness is the latest update concering "player vs. monster vs player combat" where now pkers take precedence over the monsters. Take a leisurely walk around the wilderness a couple weeks, and I do mean take your time walking around, when was the last time was it so easy to just walk the whole of the wilderness without seeing one person? The answer is never as one could always find someone running around there, but now it seems only the lower levels of the wilderness are on a constant occupied status because of that update. Even the Hobgoblin mines are empty now because of it and runite prices will soon skyrocket because of this since half of all the runite is located in the wilderness, I am talking in the long run here.

 

 

 

Overall, a vast majority of things in Runescape need to be entirely reworked in order to get players to come back. If they do not, soon that number will be like when I started, I started in September 2004, and those numbers are less than 100k even at peak-hours and maybe 30-40k at off-hours.

[Wkw]

 

Also, you need to take into account that massive updates take a lot longer to make because they are so complex

Understandable, but you need to take into consideration that EVERY update usually takes months. Yes, the shop update, small it was, was probably in the works since the beginning of the year. Did it change alot of things? Yes. For the better? Mostly. Also, what about those new quests that do nothing for the rest of the game? Yep. Pointless they may be, they take priority over the smaller, better things.

 

 

 

So massave or not, they still take ages to make. Ages that COULD be spent on killing bots or making REAL CS responces.

 

 

 

Finally, if they introduce new items, new equipment, these will have a huge effect on the game. This means more work for quality assurance team and therefore the update will take longer.

 

The Quality assurance basically fixes some graphical bugs, and to try to answer the big question: Will this make alot of people rant about it?

 

 

 

Basically, higher level updates tend to be a lot harder to make and therefore you shouldn't expect jagex to release higher level updates and lower level updates at an equal ratio (or anywhere close)

An update is an update. They can change the skill level required to do something easially. Making a quest that needs several 90+ skills and that has a really powerful boss monster isn't any harder then making the same quest with 20+ skills needed and a lv50 boss monster.

 

That is like drawing two drawings of a box. One box needs to be red and blue, the other one needs to be green and yellow. You have all required materials, so niether should be harder then the other

[Solidus_77]

Understandable, but you need to take into consideration that EVERY update usually takes months. Yes, the shop update, small it was, was probably in the works since the beginning of the year. Did it change alot of things? Yes. For the better? Mostly. Also, what about those new quests that do nothing for the rest of the game? Yep. Pointless they may be, they take priority over the smaller, better things.

 

 

 

So massave or not, they still take ages to make. Ages that COULD be spent on killing bots or making REAL CS responces.

 

 

 

I would estimate months for a medium level quest. However ME Part 2 took over 2 years. That's a huge difference so you can't just group them all together and say "they all take a long time".

 

 

 

The new quests have given us, for example, 2 new prayers. Useless? No.

 

 

 

If for every update you think "great, this time could have been spent on bot banning so it was a waste of time", that's just another assumption. First of all, people care about updates as well as the bots. Second of all, you don't know how the company works so don't just assume that all the people can be re-assigned to work on whatever project is neaded. There is a team that works on customer support only and there is another team that works on graphic updates for example. Until you have at least seen the firm, your argument is completely invalid.

 

 

 

The Quality assurance basically fixes some graphical bugs, and to try to answer the big question: Will this make alot of people rant about it?

 

 

 

 

Not at all. In the entire gaming industry, QA is considered one of the most important positions. They are the ones that try to make sure if a lot of things work. They are the ones who figure out the balance in the game, they work on predicting the outcome of, say, an update.

 

 

 

Explain what you mean by the "bigger picture", you say "will this make people rant about it?" what is "it" supposed to be? what does "this" refer to. You're being way too vague.

 

 

 

An update is an update. They can change the skill level required to do something easially. Making a quest that needs several 90+ skills and that has a really powerful boss monster isn't any harder then making the same quest with 20+ skills needed and a lv50 boss monster.

 

That is like drawing two drawings of a box. One box needs to be red and blue, the other one needs to be green and yellow. You have all required materials, so niether should be harder then the other

 

 

 

So basically, you say that if you take the light tower quest and change the requirement to 90 construction you've got yourself a "high level quest"? that's completely ridiculous, high level quests are those such as mourning's end part 2. Something that's longer, more challenging (the quest took over 2 years to make). Same for recipe for disasters.

 

 

 

There is no generic formula for making a quest because they are so unique. You can't just go around raising some skill requirements and then say "well this is a higher level quest", it has to make sense wit ha storyline, it has to have some challenge, it has to have a reward that reflects (to a certain extent) the challenge of the quest. Then if there's a "boss" monster to fight it's a whole different story, because a boss in, say, recipe for disasters has nothing to do with lvl 100+ that only has one form of attack.

 

 

 

And finally, my point about godwars dungeon remains correct since you haven't even mentioned it therefore it still effectively proves your entire argument (about the so-called lack of high level updates) wrong.

[highlanders]

However ME Part 2 took over 2 years.

 

1) How do you know Mourning's End part 2 took over 2 years of work to be created? 2) How big was the team that worked on it? If it was tiny, it would only prove that updates take a longer time when the team is smaller(duh..).

[dargonhuman]

Regarding the "declining" number of active players; that number is in no way an accurate measure of who's quitting or not. Right now, there are two major variables affecting it: mass bot bans and school*. When 10,000 or even 5,000 bots get banned a week, then that's going to lower the number of active players.

 

Right now many schools (at least in the US) are either preparing for Christmas break or administering midterms/semester finals which means lots and lots of homework and studying for most students, which means less time for rs's core playerbase to login. Which, naturally, leads to dwindling numbers. The number of active players always goes down this time of year as real life intrudes on gametime. I'm guessing around Dec 10-15 there's going to be a massive resurgence that lasts till somewhere around the New Year.

 

Even the "low" 20k-200k numbers are far higher than this time two or three years ago. When numbers start dropping to pre-rs2 days, then it's time to worry.

 

 

 

*There's also the "Halo-effect" in which a number of highly-anticipated console games are being released soon (Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros Brawl, etc.) or were recently released (BioShock, Halo 3) that are consuming massive amounts of free-time as well, but those are unique anomalies to the point I was making that such activity fluxes are normal and even predictable. It's still worth foot-noting, though.

[Solidus_77]

However ME Part 2 took over 2 years.

 

1) How do you know Mourning's End part 2 took over 2 years of work to be created?

 

 

 

It was stated by a J mod. The explanation is because the quest had the most complicated puzzle in the entire game. (and quite frankly 2 years sounds very reasonable)

 

 

 

 

2) How big was the team that worked on it? If it was tiny, it would only prove that updates take a longer time when the team is smaller(duh..).

 

 

 

That, my friend, you can figure out by looking at quests in the knowledge base. In the quest's description you will see a list of credits (so the people who worked on the game). All you need to do to answer your question is to compare the credits in ME part 2 to some other more basic quests.

[highlanders]

The problem is, we don't know how long the people mentioned in the credits worked on the quest for. For instance, you could have a quest with 3 people named in the credits, and the three people each worked 200 hours. And then you could have another quest with 10 people in the credits, but they each worked 20 hours. So how can we know how much work was actually put on the quest?

 

 

 

They said the quest took 2 years to create. But that doesn't prove anything unless we know how much people worked on it throughout its creation. For instance, they could have had one person working on it for 1 year and a haft, then towards the end, make 10 new people join that 1 person, and then say "11 people worked on it!" "It took 2 years". But that wouldn't mean the 11 people worked on it full time during those 2 years. See what I mean?

[neonihilist]

I agree with the guy above me. Labor hours are the basis of value.

 

 

 

I don't miss runescape classic. If I enjoyed playing it more that was only because I was very new to the whole MMORPG thing. Things are more fun when they're new. But I'd rather play rs than rs classic. I don't think rs is getting worse I think its getting better all the time. I look forward to almost all the new updates because they give me something new to do and I like that. The only updates I havn't liked were the ones that changed the chat and the side panel. I thought the older pictures on the side panel were better.

[Solidus_77]

The problem is, we don't know how long the people mentioned in the credits worked on the quest for. For instance, you could have a quest with 3 people named in the credits, and the three people each worked 200 hours. And then you could have another quest with 10 people in the credits, but they each worked 20 hours. So how can we know how much work was actually put on the quest?

 

 

 

They said the quest took 2 years to create. But that doesn't prove anything unless we know how much people worked on it throughout its creation. For instance, they could have had one person working on it for 1 year and a haft, then towards the end, make 10 new people join that 1 person, and then say "11 people worked on it!" "It took 2 years". But that wouldn't mean the 11 people worked on it full time during those 2 years. See what I mean?

 

 

 

Then you'll just have to rely on common sense which states that long quests take longer to make than short quests

[Bufoman]

Well first off I would like to state my opinion on mornings end part two's development time:

 

 

 

Has any one considered the possibility that either A. it got put on a backburner repeatedly, or B. they reached an impasse and where unable to complete it until their game engine update?

 

 

 

Now going back to the main question about runescapes decline and can it be saved?

 

 

 

I have to agree that this game is going downhill community wise, when I started playing I am quite sure their where never so many bots, or foul mouthed players. The more of this I see the less I want to play.

 

 

 

It used to be I loved playing this game, but as I have ever been a free to player it has gotten old. Even if I was a member I do believe the general decline in the games community would still have a negative effect on my enjoyment for it. And I believe this is largely responsible for the games decline.

 

 

 

It used to be such a friendly place, no seriously I remember helpful people every whereas I turned. Now I am almost constantly bombarded with hearing name calling, an over dose of bots, bad attitudes, and allot of other things that I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see allot of when I first started playing over three years ago. I think that the most important thing to get this game back on track is to fix the community.

 

 

 

Also I too have noticed other things that don't sit right with me, fishing for one seems to take longer than it used too... I don't know if this is to inflate the price of fish and counter deflation from macro's or if itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just my imagination. Also mining I agree is too slow, at a certain point theirs no reason that I can see why you should have to swing your pick any more than ten seconds top on a piece of coal- I got 70+ mining, I have earned the right to that rock, not to swing at it for a miniute and have some one with the minimum mining requirement get it.

[Chazimcgee]

RuneScape will never be "salvagable". Most things grow and expand and for the better. Jagex wanted to create more income so therefore advertising more and getting more staff to cope with the large increase in players.

 

 

 

Without this groowth the new and very well though out updates may never have been here.

 

 

 

Some things do have to be sacrificed in order for a game to progress and in this case it was RuneScape's community that paid the price.

 

 

 

It is inevitable in the end because its a game and it has to expand.

[Bufoman]

Runescape used to get known about by word of mouth, or at least thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s how I found out about it.

 

 

 

I believe the ads for runescape on miniclip was one of the worse idea's I have ever seen. All you have to do is be in a room with a bunch of teanagers playing miniclip to realize they generally are not the sort you want in your community. Immaturity for instance was rampant in the groups I saw goofing off at miniclip on their spare time, people who seek cheap thrills, not community gameing... but thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just a personal experience from my perspective.

 

 

 

Really though I think the community and the game would of been better off if runescape wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t so widely advertised. This game should appeal primarily to those sorts of people who like a good community, as its graphics and most every thing else are not up to the standards of your average gamer. Sure the new graphics updates are nice, but I would much rather see some things that would make the community better like more bank space (for members and Free To Play), and improvements on the bank in general.

 

 

 

My case for this improving the community are two fold: First allot of people are getting sick of not having enough space in their banks and quitting- especially long time free to players who help the community. Second you have members who stop subscribing for one reason or another and they find themselves stuck with a over filled bank. Some sort of an update which would put those members only items into storage when you go f2p would be nice, or just let people keep it as a parting gift.

 

 

 

Player Moderators too, particularly the free to play ones have trouble with the lack of bank space. And the last thing that will help the community is having them retire faster because of this.

[astro_dude]

There's been a rumor going around that a Pornographic site has a "Games" section. The icon for it is "Runescape". I have confirmed this. By using google. This is quite disturbing being the fact that Runescape is for teens. I really hope Jagex didn't aprove of it. I can't really prove it to you. But if anyone can think of a LEGAL way to post it i will. I could edit out everything bad. But im not willing to take the chance.

[Bo4345]

The new players will keep on coming, but the old will not. In turn Jagex will focus more on them?

[highlanders]

The problem is, we don't know how long the people mentioned in the credits worked on the quest for. For instance, you could have a quest with 3 people named in the credits, and the three people each worked 200 hours. And then you could have another quest with 10 people in the credits, but they each worked 20 hours. So how can we know how much work was actually put on the quest?

 

 

 

They said the quest took 2 years to create. But that doesn't prove anything unless we know how much people worked on it throughout its creation. For instance, they could have had one person working on it for 1 year and a haft, then towards the end, make 10 new people join that 1 person, and then say "11 people worked on it!" "It took 2 years". But that wouldn't mean the 11 people worked on it full time during those 2 years. See what I mean?

 

 

 

Then you'll just have to rely on common sense which states that long quests take longer to make than short quests

 

Indeed. But you'll agree that your 2 year/big quest argument for ME P2 goes down the drain.

[Mithril_Max]

It isnt

 

 

 

I jumped ship to WoW (used to hate people like that) im still kind of ashamed :?

[hicky_mouse]

Immaturity for instance was rampant in the groups I saw goofing off at miniclip on their spare time, people who seek cheap thrills, not community gameing... but thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just a personal experience from my perspective.

 

I completely disagree with this. Can a person not want both "cheap thrills" and "community gaming"? At times I do not feel like grinding my levels up in runescape. So I head over to one of any number of mini-game sites. You don't need to be immature to enjoy a short, yet somehow still exciting game.

[Bufoman]

Never said you couldent be a mature person and go to sites like Miniclip, was just stateing a personal experionce about the sort that tend to go their as part of my argument.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

I've been playing for 5 years over many different accounts, and it's people who're newer to the game who think that the game is degrading and that us grizzled ancients think the same.

 

 

 

Yes, there are some old timers out there who don't like it, but if they're as old as they say they are, then they shouldn't be complaining about where RS2 is heading and just stay in RSC.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

The highest i have seen the number on the front page is less than 200k on a constant basis, in the past few months starting June, now and in the 60k range during off-hours. If Jagex was fixing anything those numbers would not be so low. I am sure we all remember, for those that have been around that long at least, when it was 400k+ at peak hours and still 200k+ during off- hours.

 

 

 

 

Just so you know, Jagex has around 144 servers. They can't hold 400k+ now, and there's no way in hell they could before. You're exaggerating too much, and 200k is still a large number.

 

 

 

I just checked right now on the RS front page. 178,365 people playing. And that's with all their servers being used at 800+ population.

 

 

 

If you know anything, the numbers have been growing. So stop pulling your numbers from thin air.

[Bufoman]

Iv been playing for 3+ years and I say the game has been going down hill- at least the FTP part. as to a suggestion for the old timers to stick to classic I can say two things: First why should they have to do that? and second F2Pers cannot play clasic any more, I had an account but can't access it any more as I am free to play.

[Stragomagus]

The highest i have seen the number on the front page is less than 200k on a constant basis, in the past few months starting June, now and in the 60k range during off-hours. If Jagex was fixing anything those numbers would not be so low. I am sure we all remember, for those that have been around that long at least, when it was 400k+ at peak hours and still 200k+ during off- hours.

 

 

 

 

Just so you know, Jagex has around 144 servers. They can't hold 400k+ now, and there's no way in hell they could before. You're exaggerating too much, and 200k is still a large number.

 

 

 

I just checked right now on the RS front page. 178,365 people playing. And that's with all their servers being used at 800+ population.

 

 

 

If you know anything, the numbers have been growing. So stop pulling your numbers from thin air.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay you caught me in a gross exaggeration, but still the numbers are going down instead of up. Starting mid-2005 the numbers started staying above 120k+ at almost all hours of the day and night. Beginning early 2006 the numbers were still on a serious upsurge and were starting to reach 180k+ on peak-hours and was still staying 100k+ on off-hours. I do not even see it break 200k anymore even on peak-hours which suggests to me the games growth is actually slowing down.

 

 

 

As of 2:07 a.m. (-5 gmt) there are currently 83,109 players on. This is quite low when compared to 2006 and 2005 numbers. Hmm.... I wonder if I can google precise numbers that far back.

 

 

 

The "Connection Lost" thing was almost non-existant until around late-2005. I think this started happening right around when "player-owned cats" were introduced. The vast majority are quite fed up that Runescape just loses its connection at random times.