Grand Exchange: Your thoughts?

[pr0phet00]

Solidus_77, just because you write big posts and attempt to discredit me does not make you right or me wrong.

 

 

 

Its my choice to debate with you or not, I choose not to because of the manner you debate. Initialy I was trying to argue my points with you until you began your attacks on me and taking jabs at me at which point I realised its a waste of time. This will most likely be my last response to you, unless you somehow become civil.

 

 

 

On last note, its not a feud between me and duke, its dukes vendetta against me and my infinite joy over his ban.

 

 

 

Ego,

 

 

 

It took me a while to read through all these posts, and while I tend to agree with the basic idea of the timeline you put out, I must disagree with the assertion that rares are the backbone of the RS economy.

 

 

 

In RS as IRL, there are those with large amounts of disposable income and those without. A real world equal of the "classic" rare..a P-Hat, would be say a luxury yacht, an Enzo Ferrari might be a red h'ween mask, and so on. The very rarity is what gives them value, not the functionality. A backbone of anything, whether it be the economy or a network, is primarily based on volume...whatever part carries the most load. So yes, while in RS, there are a few specific items that have an enormous monetary value, the constant day to day volume of things like yews, natures, bowstrings, sharks, etc are the true backbone of the rs economy. Rarers are valuable as money sinks..I'll go as far as investments, but their enormous market value is based on the generation of excess wealth with which these are purchased.

 

 

 

For every Hat trade one imagines that there are thousands or tens of thousands of more mundane trades...sharks, potions, logs, etc. This not only forms the backbone for the economy as a whole by sheer volume, but as a byproduct generates the cash necessary to purchase the luxury items.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that rares in themselves are worth a tremendous amount of cash, but the fact that they are so expensive relegates them to a stratified few.

[qeltar]

Solidus_77, just because you write big posts and attempt to discredit me does not make you right or me wrong.

 

 

 

No, what makes him right and you wrong is the fact that he uses logical arguments based on sound economic knowledge, while you -- do not.

 

 

 

curmudgeony: I think eventually Jagex is going to release a more useful potion for leveling above Sara Brews, at which point Brews are going to go way up in terms of price. They are certainly far more useful than their price implies.

 

 

 

~q

[ego_scorpion]

Solidus_77, just because you write big posts and attempt to discredit me does not make you right or me wrong.

 

 

 

Its my choice to debate with you or not, I choose not to because of the manner you debate. Initialy I was trying to argue my points with you until you began your attacks on me and taking jabs at me at which point I realised its a waste of time. This will most likely be my last response to you, unless you somehow become civil.

 

 

 

On last note, its not a feud between me and duke, its dukes vendetta against me and my infinite joy over his ban.

 

 

 

Ego,

 

 

 

It took me a while to read through all these posts, and while I tend to agree with the basic idea of the timeline you put out, I must disagree with the assertion that rares are the backbone of the RS economy.

 

 

 

In RS as IRL, there are those with large amounts of disposable income and those without. A real world equal of the "classic" rare..a P-Hat, would be say a luxury yacht, an Enzo Ferrari might be a red h'ween mask, and so on. The very rarity is what gives them value, not the functionality. A backbone of anything, whether it be the economy or a network, is primarily based on volume...whatever part carries the most load. So yes, while in RS, there are a few specific items that have an enormous monetary value, the constant day to day volume of things like yews, natures, bowstrings, sharks, etc are the true backbone of the rs economy. Rarers are valuable as money sinks..I'll go as far as investments, but their enormous market value is based on the generation of excess wealth with which these are purchased.

 

 

 

For every Hat trade one imagines that there are thousands or tens of thousands of more mundane trades...sharks, potions, logs, etc. This not only forms the backbone for the economy as a whole by sheer volume, but as a byproduct generates the cash necessary to purchase the luxury items.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that rares in themselves are worth a tremendous amount of cash, but the fact that they are so expensive relegates them to a stratified few.

 

 

 

Alright, consider this then.

 

 

 

In runescape, you have your rares. Lets take 2 most expensive ones. A x-mas cracker and a blue party hat. Either of those rares will allow 1 to buy 1-99 in every buyable skill, best armor, and a ton more. Furthermore, the overall combined value of all the rares in the game is far greater than anything else. Now the exact # of rares is unknown but a good anology in my point of view owuld be to compare it to dark matter. Exact amount is unknown, but we know its there and constitutes the majority of the universe.

 

 

 

The way I see it, when owning 1 item can do so much for you, that item category is the backbone of the economy.

 

 

 

Lastly, I will add this. Consider if rares were completely taken out of this game, what would that mean? $ would lose its value greatly. People would no longer need to save milions to buy them. Wouldnt you agree that weather or not they are the backbone of the economy or not is simply dependant on perspective and to a degree experience with them?

 

 

 

Either way, dont get hung up on the term backbone, it was the initial prediction for the first week or 2 of the release of exchange that I wanted to describe. The decrease in prices accross the board and maybe collapse in rare market. Who knows, maybe it happens maybe it doesnt, perhaps post you ropinion of what will happen if you disagree :)

[ego_scorpion]

Solidus_77, just because you write big posts and attempt to discredit me does not make you right or me wrong.

 

 

 

No, what makes him right and you wrong is the fact that he uses logical arguments based on sound economic knowledge, while you -- do not.

 

 

 

curmudgeony: I think eventually Jagex is going to release a more useful potion for leveling above Sara Brews, at which point Brews are going to go way up in terms of price. They are certainly far more useful than their price implies.

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

Heres a blunt answer. If you know so much about economics of the game (whatever you read on wikipedia or googled does not apply) then perhaps you would be so kind as to post an example of your financial achievements? Oh wait, they are not important... but niether is your contribution if you dont value $, this is a discussion about $ and the way GE will affect it. You are not a mercahnt and thus are less qualified with you real life examples due to complete and utter lack of ingame merchanting experience. This isnt truthcape I think you may have the wrong door.

[qeltar]

 

Furthermore, the overall combined value of all the rares in the game is far greater than anything else.

 

 

Almost certainly false. My guess is that the total value of all the rares in the game is less than 1% of the total "net worth" of the economy.

 

 

The way I see it, when owning 1 item can do so much for you, that item category is the backbone of the economy.

 

 

Then you don't understand what the term "backbone of the economy" means.

 

 

Wouldnt you agree that weather or not they are the backbone of the economy or not is simply dependant on perspective and to a degree experience with them?

 

 

I doubt he would, because it's not true.

 

 

 

There is not going to be any "economic collapse" anyway.

[qeltar]

 

Heres a blunt answer. If you know so much about economics of the game (whatever you read on wikipedia or googled does not apply) then perhaps you would be so kind as to post an example of your financial achievements? Oh wait, they are not important... but niether is your contribution if you dont value $, this is a discussion about $ and the way GE will affect it. You are not a mercahnt and thus are less qualified with you real life examples due to complete and utter lack of ingame merchanting experience. This isnt truthcape I think you may have the wrong door.

 

 

 

Alright, I really resisted playing this trump card, but since it appears nothing else will get you to give up your credentials obsession, here go.

 

 

 

I began learning about economics in the late 1970s and investing in the mid-1980s. I have an MBA-equivalent Master's degree in Management from the #4 rated US graduate business school (it's called "MIT", have you heard of it?).

 

 

 

I have been online and involved in economic and business analysis and discussion for over 15 years. I began my first online business in 1997 -- when many big companies weren't even online -- and I now run six different ones.

 

 

 

In contrast you have... a big mouth and a bunch of pixillated paper hats that you could have easily gotten as gifts anyway.

 

 

 

In the game, I have enough money to easily buy a party hat, alch it and have it not affect my gameplay whatsoever. If I wanted more money than that, I could have billions by now, as I have tired merchanting in the past and easily made 20 to 50 million a day. I simply don't see any practical purpose to lots of money, since I am not so insecure as to need to show off.

 

 

 

Now, perhaps you can stop trying to pretend that you are somehow more qualified and try to actually make reasonable and sensible comments?

[ego_scorpion]

Aww, my trump card got deleted, I guess I was too brutal :(

 

 

 

Here is my trump card (reposted not to hurt any feelings)

 

 

 

Me right, you not right.

 

In 809 B.C. big high war god make me smart

 

Me good in counting - me count rocks - me win award for good rock counting.

 

 

 

Me say you dont know nuttin, me rich, you not proof rich, you dont know how make rich!

 

 

 

You show scan of you degree and you show proof of you real and pixel rich then me belive you know what you say.

 

 

 

Me think you a little sad, aruging with somebody half your age:(

 

 

 

Me not talk to you, me think you sad!

[pr0phet00]

Aww, my trump card got deleted, I guess I was too brutal :(

 

 

 

Here is my trump card (reposted not to hurt any feelings)

 

 

 

Me right, you not right.

 

In 809 B.C. big high war god make me smart

 

Me good in counting - me count rocks - me win award for good rock counting.

 

 

 

Me say you dont know nuttin, me rich, you not proof rich, you dont know how make rich!

 

 

 

You show scan of you degree and you show proof of you real and pixel rich then me belive you know what you say.

 

 

 

Me think you a little sad, aruging with somebody half your age:(

 

 

 

Me not talk to you, me think you sad!

 

 

 

 

 

Ouch...look, I was trying to stay OT regarding this..I appreciate your first post as a possible theory as to the outcome of the GE. I disagree on a specific point, and the poster prior to you responded as I would have.

 

 

 

Really, as much as I'd prefer not to jump on the flaming bandwagon...your post here was really unnecessary, extremely juvenile, and really detracts from anything you might have said previously.

 

 

 

The gentleman *does* have a point, and while in the Age of Faceless computing, anyones claims are suspect, you took the low road in responding to that, creating a personal attack, instead of staying on topic.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I can't contribute to this topic anymore...I realize the type of person that I'm debating.

[ego_scorpion]

pr0phet00, check my other thread on grand exchange and 24 pages of flames by this person.

 

 

 

I am not the type of person to do random low blows, but everything qeltar said in both threads is purely out of hatred and jealousy so he got the responses he deserves in my eyes. You know how they say... when someone slaps your right cheeck you give them left... well instead i shoot with a tactical nuclear weapon :)

 

 

 

edit:

 

this is the internet... does anyone on the internet care how big ones e-manhood is in real life? why post about it... what kind of response do you intend to get when you call someone a bragger and then brag about your real life degrees....

[Dharockslayer]

 

You know how they say... when someone slaps your right cheeck you give them left... well instead i shoot with a tactical nuclear weapon :)

 

You are not very tactical in my opinion :? .

 

And just because your nuclear weapon always hits the ground, doesnt mean that its accurate.

 

I mean, you do know everyone is leaving now do you? Leaving you alone in your little victory topic.

 

 

 

Have fun wasting time on replying to this ^^. To make it a little bit easier Ive made some lines you would use.

 

-You are just jealous

 

-You are not a merchanter, and thus unimportant, go to another thread

 

-I win, all complete strangers adore me now. Where are your strangers?

 

 

 

In all seriousness, you are wasting time if you write a reply to this, just as much as I did while making replies to this and your other thread.

 

 

 

In all annoyingness, its spelled "cheek".

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

pr0phet00, check my other thread on grand exchange and 24 pages of flames by this person.

 

 

 

I am not the type of person to do random low blows, but everything qeltar said in both threads is purely out of hatred and jealousy so he got the responses he deserves in my eyes. You know how they say... when someone slaps your right cheeck you give them left... well instead i shoot with a tactical nuclear weapon :)

 

 

 

edit:

 

this is the internet... does anyone on the internet care how big ones e-manhood is in real life? why post about it... what kind of response do you intend to get when you call someone a bragger and then brag about your real life degrees....

 

 

 

First of all, even if this is the Internet, it does not mean you can just ignore facts and credentials. Qeltar was resisting putting out his own credentials to avoid what you would say here, and apparently it wouldn't have mattered either way. To me, that's genuinely pathetic -- how can you call him a braggart when you yourself have in your signature the number of Party Hat sets you own? Yeah, hi kettle. This is the pot calling...

 

 

 

Second, you only derive hatred and jealousy from your own posts. What is being said is opinion, being backed up by facts and real-world inferences. A fact is that rares are worth tens of millions of in-game currency; an opinion is that they are the backbone of the economy.

 

 

 

Let me tell you something: You don't know jack.

 

 

 

A backbone is a central part of anything, be it an animal or a particular trade. Basically, it's something along the lines of an absolute need; something that everyone at some point in their lives will have to use. I haven't had to use a rare, nor have I really cared about them. I have had to use sharks, monkfish, ore, bars, and feathers -- all of which could be seen as the backbone of the RS economy.

 

 

 

Also, in regards to your other post, if you can't accept another person's point of view in a calm manner, without having to act like a fool, then there's no need for you to post on a public forum. Act like that in private.

[ego_scorpion]

 

You know how they say... when someone slaps your right cheeck you give them left... well instead i shoot with a tactical nuclear weapon :)

 

You are not very tactical in my opinion :? .

 

And just because your nuclear weapon always hits the ground, doesnt mean that its accurate.

 

I mean, you do know everyone is leaving now do you? Leaving you alone in your little victory topic.

 

 

 

Have fun wasting time on replying to this ^^. To make it a little bit easier Ive made some lines you would use.

 

-You are just jealous

 

-You are not a merchanter, and thus unimportant, go to another thread

 

-I win, all complete strangers adore me now. Where are your strangers?

 

 

 

In all seriousness, you are wasting time if you write a reply to this, just as much as I did while making replies to this and your other thread.

 

 

 

In all annoyingness, its spelled "cheek".

 

 

 

Thats the good thing about nuke, no matter where it lands you still get crisped.

 

 

 

Its been established that I am not american and although I am fluent in english it is not my first language. Attempting to comment on ones spelling just demonstrates that youve run out of other insults and desparately resorting to anything you can find. And those were replys just for qeltar, I seem to have finally gotten through his wall of hatred and achieved victory of sorts lol.

 

 

 

Honestly, think what you want of me, ill gladly be the bad guy if it makes your lnternet experience better.

 

 

 

ps. if you wonna laern how to merchant pm me for some good tips on hwo you can make millions^^

[ego_scorpion]

pr0phet00, check my other thread on grand exchange and 24 pages of flames by this person.

 

 

 

I am not the type of person to do random low blows, but everything qeltar said in both threads is purely out of hatred and jealousy so he got the responses he deserves in my eyes. You know how they say... when someone slaps your right cheeck you give them left... well instead i shoot with a tactical nuclear weapon :)

 

 

 

edit:

 

this is the internet... does anyone on the internet care how big ones e-manhood is in real life? why post about it... what kind of response do you intend to get when you call someone a bragger and then brag about your real life degrees....

 

 

 

First of all, even if this is the Internet, it does not mean you can just ignore facts and credentials. Qeltar was resisting putting out his own credentials to avoid what you would say here, and apparently it wouldn't have mattered either way. To me, that's genuinely pathetic -- how can you call him a braggart when you yourself have in your signature the number of Party Hat sets you own? Yeah, hi kettle. This is the pot calling...

 

 

 

Second, you only derive hatred and jealousy from your own posts. What is being said is opinion, being backed up by facts and real-world inferences. A fact is that rares are worth tens of millions of in-game currency; an opinion is that they are the backbone of the economy.

 

 

 

Let me tell you something: You don't know jack.

 

 

 

A backbone is a central part of anything, be it an animal or a particular trade. Basically, it's something along the lines of an absolute need; something that everyone at some point in their lives will have to use. I haven't had to use a rare, nor have I really cared about them. I have had to use sharks, monkfish, ore, bars, and feathers -- all of which could be seen as the backbone of the RS economy.

 

 

 

Also, in regards to your other post, if you can't accept another person's point of view in a calm manner, without having to act like a fool, then there's no need for you to post on a public forum. Act like that in private.

 

 

 

Does matsumoto make you as excited as she makes me? or is it toshiro that excites you? :ohnoes:

 

 

 

Qeltar got what he deserved. I can post in a thread that I have all those degrees in this and that (kinda like I did in my lil mocking post lol) - but how do you know im telling the truth or lying? I can effectively copy and paste things off of google and wikipedia and say I am certified and there is no way of knowing.

 

 

 

Him posting his credentials means less than nothing to me, I hope you can see why. Like I said, if making me center of your hatred can make your internet experience better... be my guest :)

[ho3f3l]

and sry about my language errors (probably i did alot :oops: ), english is not my language, but i make a efort to do my best since this is a english language based forum.

 

 

 

Also, its "you" not "u", those abbreviations is what makes one look... unintelligent.

 

 

 

if im not in mistake, thats you saying that im "unintelligent" becouse of my way of writing engish, while it was alread been established that I am not fluent in english, beeing it knowing the language or how i write it.

 

 

 

and yet..

 

 

 

Its been established that I am not american and although I am fluent in english it is not my first language. Attempting to comment on ones spelling just demonstrates that youve run out of other insults and desparately resorting to anything you can find.

 

 

 

its funny that u oops sry, you say that in the same topic that you call someone "unintelligent" for his mistakes

 

 

 

before anything else, im not jellous of u, im not rich and i dont care, i play the game my way and thats how i like it.

[ego_scorpion]

please stop trying to derail the thread. and there is a difference between spelling and abbreviations, such as u instead of you... personally i cant stand them.

[ho3f3l]

please stop trying to derail the thread. and there is a difference between spelling and abbreviations, such as u instead of you... personally i cant stand them.

 

 

 

i've tried..

 

 

 

about u saying that every seller is going to put is items for less then everyone else wont be true for everyone.

 

 

 

if GE work as i expect that will be, ill just put my items for my price and leave them there, eventually some1 will buy.

 

 

 

lets talk about nat runes for exemple, time is money and before GE i would post on foruns and would go to world 2, and probably if almost all sellers there were selling for 300, i would sell for 295 np cous i would hate to lose lots of time to sell them all at 300, but with GE i would put them all at 300 there and go make more or level other skill, im not a very wealthy player like some are, but i can continue going on, buying the items i need to level and so on. And with GE i can put alot more items for sale that i didnt sold before thinking to be a waste of time, now all i need to do is put there at their prices and continue, if they r not sold well i will continue as i am...

 

 

 

since i cant (yet :P) predict the future i dont know what other players will do with theirs goods, you say that everyone will sell cheaper to get money faster, but will they? u say all gatherers will lower to sell faster, to me that would be true before GE, after why wouldnt they just put there at their prices and gather more?

 

 

 

but you were the one that on response didnt talked about nothing of that and insulted me about my writing...

[Niall_Kay]

I do agree that the flood will most likely happen, although monopoly of a certain item i don't think is as likely to happen, but it is a possibility.

 

 

 

After a certain period of time, i think that as prices begin to level out, they will generally rise as most people are willing to do something else and wait, rather tan lower their prices.

[Mithril_Max]

why the hell would prices be HIGHER on the grand exchange? its all about selling fast and easy and noone will buy if its too high

[qeltar]

I've just published an extensive new "sneak preview" of the Grand Exchange. My feeling is that the GE is going to be the most important update to hit RS in years, so I felt it was worth taking some time to take a look at in advance. The article is very long and detailed, containing a full analysis of what I think the exchange will be like, what the major issues are behind it, what markets and players it will impact and a whole lot more. I also discuss why the "economy is crashing" stuff is nonsense and make some suggestions for players and for Jagex. It's called TruthScape Sneak Previews - Why the Grand Exchange Could be RuneScapeÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s Most Important Update in Years.

 

 

 

I'd love to hear your comments and thoughts. The article is too long to publish in its entirety here, but to spur discussion I've included three sections here, which I think you may find particularly interesting.

 

 

 

Preview of The Grand Exchange - "Most Important Update in Years?" WhatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the Big Deal?

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ve had occasion to speak with a number of RuneScape players who are completely mystified as to why so many people are speculating about the Grand Exchange (GE). They see it as just another way of trading, and heck, we already have ways of trading now, right? While I agree that some folks are going completely off the deep end about thisÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

[Silver_Corner]

One problem I do see however, will give merchants a HUGE edge with this.

 

 

 

Say a person whos really rich (like 1B+) wants to make some money and have some fun controling an entire market. Say on this market, there are Nat runes for sale at, 280, 290, 300, and 310e.

 

 

 

He uses his vast money supplies, and buys all the nat runes on the list less than 300e. Then markets them all 300e. Now the entire market of nat runes under 300 is under control of one person. And making 10-20gp per rune selling them back, he gets TONS of profit since theres thousands of nats being sold at a time.

 

 

 

But the issue is the Stairs effect.

 

Say another merchanter buys all the nats (now all 300e), and puts them all at 310e. Now everyone has to buy at 310e, since none are left that are cheaper. Then another merchanter buys them all and sells at 320, and so on. Until we get nats in the market that are 370e. And nothing we can do about it.

 

 

 

Unless Jagex places some sort of restriction on how many of one product you can buy, rich merchanters can basically control markets with easy of a few clicks, since the entire market is now at there fingertips.

 

 

 

Im sure Jagex has a solution to this problem tho, and Im curious to see how they will deal with it.

[Wkw]

nice insite

[TheAncient]

Fantastic, my man =D>

 

 

 

I will personally be looking forward to fast 92 magic thanks to the GE :), or fast 90 Range, pending if I get a GS or not.

[wakka102]

My god, you never cease to amaze me, I absolutely ADORE you're site! Keep those articles coming, they are some of the best I've ever read :D .

[alcoolj]

An excellent analysis of the RS markets, and the potential of the GE. I for one am looking forward to dumping all my unused/never to be used items on the exchange and see if they sell.

 

 

 

It truly will be a case of one mans junk is another mans treasure on the GE :)

[llamster]

I puzzle over your ability to write an article so long that the whole thing can't fit within the 50k character limit in a matter of days.

 

 

 

You should be a journalist (if you aren't already one).