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America = the strongest country?


Lordtunkuta

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Eh i'm not to bothered by comments like those. Every country has people like that, just americans will straight out say it and not put on a "nice" face for everyone like Europe. Europe thinks they are high class true "gentlemen". Nothing wrong with it i guess, but it ain't my cup of tea along with the majority of americans.

 

 

 

Its kinda like bragging rights in football. The winning team that has been dragging the losing team up and down the field for the past 11 years has the right to talk smack.

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The problem with this vague statement of "strongest" is that it assumes that there's only one form of power, which there isn't. There's hard power and soft power.

 

 

 

Hard power would be the amount of power a country can wield by force, either through boots on the ground or missiles in the air. Although the U.S. maintains quite a large technological edge over every other country with a person in uniform, the Mess-o-Potamia that is Iraq means most of that power is bogged down in a situation that it couldn't pull out of quickly enough should a war with a different country occur. However, the fact that the U.S. is stretched militarily does NOT affect the actual quantity of hard power the U.S. has, it just means that it's being used. Big difference. In terms of quantifying hard power, the United States has more nukes than anyone else and enough means of delivering them that make nuclear annihilation of a target inevitable (missile subs, ICBMS, strategic bombers, whatever scary mini-nukes they can strap onto strike fighters). Nukes end any argument over hard power because in the end, a nuclear weapon versus however many soldiers always ends in the nuke winning. You CAN delineate hard power into conventional hard power and nuclear hard power, and that's where a debate can occur. Otherwise, no question about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Soft power is the amount a power a country can wield economically and diplomatically. To determine that you'd look at the size and scope of a country's economy, the dependence of other countries on your country's economy, etc etc etc. You also count the amount of political capital the country holds with the rest of the world (whether they pay attention when we say something, whether they care, etc etc). Although it was true that back in the day when the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA talked everyone jumped to attention, the international relations debacle that was the Bush Administration (you can't argue that he wrecked relations with plenty of countries) means that the political force wielded by the U.S. is diminished, especially with small countries in Africa and Asia. For example, when Bush was denouncing the Myanmar massacres, the rest of the world didn't do much but shrug, indicating a lack of political capital with the rest of the world.

 

 

 

Comparing the U.S. and China economically, there is no question of the U.S.'s dependence on China. "MADE IN CHINA" has pretty much become so prevalent that it's rare to find something made in the USA these days, which indicates that however large the U.S. economy is, it is outranked by China's due to its dependence. Don't get me wrong, China needs America to sell its goods to, but the trade deficit is a key indicator of how badly the scales are skewed in China's favor. Politically, they wield enormous power with other countries due to their massive investment in foreign operations (for example, the known fact that China wields enormous influence over Sudan's actions but as of yet has done very little to stem the genocide).

 

 

 

By those standards, the People's Republic of China dwarfs the U.S. in soft power and exhibits a clear hegemony over the world's economy, while the U.S. maintains a severe lead in force.

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Wow, quite a post there Chris. I do have to say though, China's only "soft power" is economic. They make plenty of things, but their diplomatic relations with most of the world are terrible.

catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream

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Wow, quite a post there Chris. I do have to say though, China's only "soft power" is economic. They make plenty of things, but their diplomatic relations with most of the world are terrible.

 

 

 

 

 

I would disagree just on the basis of that if you're a small country and China is feeding you huge amounts of money and resources from investments and whatever else, when China says something to you, you tend to yell "How High Sir!?"

 

 

 

Although it's true that plenty of people make plenty of noise about China's less-than-good dealings (human rights, Tibet, Sudan, etc etc), those people are either not in power (read: hippies) or if they are, they keep very very very quiet about it. A good example is the lack of serious protest by countries before and probably during the Olympic Games in regards to China's viciously bad human rights record. The Olympics are the perfect venue to shred China about their bad doings, but every country is far too scared to do it due to their dependence on China's economic power.

 

 

 

In short form, China's economic power (which it can wield like a sledgehammer or a scalpel) translates to serious amounts of diplomatic power.

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Though North Korea or Russia (if they're still being secretive) might be stronger...You never know.

 

 

 

North Korea is one of the weakest countries in the world. Being secretive is one thing, but disguising a large, strong and prosperous nation as a severely deprived and weakened one is downright impossible, not to mention stupid.

 

 

 

I hope we go to war. This would come at a huge cost, and I mean HUGE, but take a moment to consider this. China is undersupplied, and Russia is crumbling. They are weaker than ever, and now is the perfect time to strike. The U.S. alone can take one, but not both. But just think about it. England, France, and much of Europe would stay to itself if it were defensive. However, most countries want Russia and China gone as much as we do. Afghanistan hates Russia, so they would likely aid in Europe. Japan has had it's eye on China, and if they got a shiny new military, they could do wonders with their technology.

 

 

 

It's an incomplete thought, so feel free to add to it.

 

 

 

Are you honestly suggesting that the US should attack Russia or China for no reason whatsoever? More like an idiotic thought than an incomplete one.

Ah, this reminds me about the noob on the Runescape forums who was upset with the quest "Cold War" because apparently his grandparents died in the war. :wall:
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Russia and China are the two biggest problems in the world. We need to get them before they get us.

 

 

 

Do you live in America? Because you sound like the typical war-hardy prideful American boy. I live in USA and I don't think like that. War is a bad thing. It takes up trillions of dollars of taxes, lives, billions of dollars of debt, global destruction, permanent damage, and wiping out millions of innocent lives. That's war.

 

 

 

War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

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Russia and China are the two biggest problems in the world. We need to get them before they get us.

 

 

 

What makes you think that? Neither of them has any reason whatsoever to harbor any sort of negative feelings against the US, and the US is one of China's biggest trading partners.

Ah, this reminds me about the noob on the Runescape forums who was upset with the quest "Cold War" because apparently his grandparents died in the war. :wall:
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Russia and China are the two biggest problems in the world. We need to get them before they get us.

 

 

 

Do you live in America? Because you sound like the typical war-hardy prideful American boy. I live in USA and I don't think like that. War is a bad thing. It takes up trillions of dollars of taxes, lives, billions of dollars of debt, global destruction, permanent damage, and wiping out millions of innocent lives. That's war.

 

 

 

War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

I agree. Dizzle, man, you don't just go into war. And I don't know what you mean about them being our biggest problems/threats, they're just nations.

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Perhaps he thinks that the US is still fighting against the commie menace?

 

Or he's thinking that Putin is creating an authoritarian state and that it's the US' moral obligation to give the people in there democracy and freedom?

 

 

 

Other than that, I have no idea.

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Perhaps he thinks that the US is still fighting against the commie menace?

 

Or he's thinking that Putin is creating an authoritarian state and that it's the US' moral obligation to give the people in there democracy and freedom?

 

But Putin's dead! :shock:

 

 

 

:o

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Perhaps he thinks that the US is still fighting against the commie menace?

 

Or he's thinking that Putin is creating an authoritarian state and that it's the US' moral obligation to give the people in there democracy and freedom?

 

But Putin's dead! :shock:

 

 

 

:o

 

That's what they want you to think.

catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream

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Though North Korea or Russia (if they're still being secretive) might be stronger...You never know.

 

 

 

North Korea is one of the weakest countries in the world. Being secretive is one thing, but disguising a large, strong and prosperous nation as a severely deprived and weakened one is downright impossible, not to mention stupid.

 

 

 

Unrealistic to say it ranks even near any of the truly weak countries that can't defend themselves if their life depended on it (like Haiti, Togo, Madagascar, etc).

 

 

 

It might be poor as heck, but that's exactly because their paranoid little madman leader chooses to divert over 30% of the GDP into the military. North Korea has the 4th largest military in the world, despite being geographically quite a small country.

 

 

 

The country's largest industry is military production and it exports its ballistic military technology to other countries such as Iran

 

 

 

The only outdated thing about the NK army is their airplanes. They're mostly rusty soviet jets. But they have excellent anti-air batteries, insanely disciplined infantry, proper assault helicopters/tanks, proper machine guns... And nuclear warheads.

 

 

 

North Korea is weak as an economic power, not as a military one.

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War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

 

 

1. You're right. Its much better then the media shows it...they never show the humanitarian actions of our troops.

 

2. Did you see the beginning of this war? Seemed like Abrams blowing [cabbage] up everywhere to me. Its bogged down since, but thats the nature of occupation and an occupational war.

 

3. Grenades are poofy and harmless as they are, only a [developmentally delayed] or [wagon] would fumble and cause unknowing death with a grenade considering it has 3 safeties.

 

 

 

Am i hard charging for more war? No. I am a service member but not die hard to head back overseas. Just saying...

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Yes, yes GWB sure is huge. He almost needs a bigger tub like Taft :roll:

 

 

 

Other then bashing the president that you most likely can't, and didn't vote for (for age reasons not party reasons) is there anything else you'd like to add?

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China would probably just steal the technology from America. They already have thousands of spies working in America right now - from non-professionals including students, scientist and researchers.

 

 

 

I remember reading that China had enough manpower and know-how to beat America in a cyber war. This would greatly disadvantage a technologically advance nation such as the US if this were true.

 

 

 

Every nation should know by now the disastrous outcomes if such a war would commence.

 

But I'd have to agree with the stalemate outcome.

"I'd rather bear the comments people say to insult ya, then to poison my skin and erase my culture " - Deep Foundation

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War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

 

 

1. You're right. Its much better then the media shows it...they never show the humanitarian actions of our troops.

 

 

 

 

They also don't show some of the sickening videos on the internet of Marines abusing innocent Iraqi civilians or indiscriminately killing Iraqi civilians.

 

 

 

[hide=Videos]qBoYaeCsuWc

 

7FD1jHueZZc {Quite a lot of swearing}

 

9ML77ev1SDI

 

HyoFwoTQZ6Y [/hide]

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War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

 

 

1. You're right. Its much better then the media shows it...they never show the humanitarian actions of our troops.

 

 

 

I was talking about a real war like World War II or Vietnam or one with China. Not a phony war like in Iraq

 

 

 

The troops suck. The war in Iraq is no longer for protection of our country. Also, you ever heard of Fallujallah, the town in Iraq? Yeah, our so-called troops destroyed the whole city looking for a few insurgents. Real nice. You put so many dozens of people out of houses because a few guys work for the enemy. For real, they don't have enough power to attack us anymore, security has improved so much more after September 11, 2001.

 

 

 

Also, the videos show justice. It just proves that any yokel can join the military these days. They're not protecting us anymore. I wish they would just pull out and leave the Iraqis to rebuild.

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China has the USA covered; both ecconomically and military. The US Dollar is in recession, military is purely based on voulenteers and the actual hardware is heading towards out-dated when you look at the majority of working samples. China on the other hand has the most combat ready units in the world, their hardware is weighted towards 'top end' in terms of units available. The only 'up' America has is nuclear weapons, and even then the government has to go through political red-tape in order to use them.

 

 

 

China has very bad work conditions, much of poverty, ffs they even censored some of the internet there (Google China). They also have very bad pollution records and have an even more censored government than we do (such as disposing of videos online that show chinese work and politicians, et cetera).

 

 

 

Well if they make the Chinese military like the US where you can get scholarships for signing up, the Chinese army might be full beyond belief. of course thats assuming the Chinese government has the power and authorization to hand over thousands of dollars to every Tom, [bleep] and Harry that signs up with the requirements. after all, only 1 in 1,000 chinese students with high GPA'sm will make it to college. offering them a promising future is enough to make them a giant power. Maybe I'm just rambling here, I don't know much about the subject.

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That tears it. I'm starting an animal rebellion using my mind powers. Those PETA bastards will never see it coming until the porcupines are half way up their asses.
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War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

 

 

1. You're right. Its much better then the media shows it...they never show the humanitarian actions of our troops.

 

 

 

 

They also don't show some of the sickening videos on the internet of Marines abusing innocent Iraqi civilians or indiscriminately killing Iraqi civilians.

 

 

 

[hide=Videos]qBoYaeCsuWc

 

7FD1jHueZZc {Quite a lot of swearing}

 

9ML77ev1SDI

 

HyoFwoTQZ6Y [/hide]

 

 

 

Eh. How do you know what the intelligence or orders were? You don't. The first video kinda makes me sick. Pansys that are now out of service bringing back the whole 60's protests, living on the streets or in tents. They could be stretching the truth? How do we know?

 

 

 

[hide=]

War isn't what it looks like on the TV and the MTV, like how the government shows us its like. It is so much different. It's not the Abrams proudly driving into the battlefield and soldiers hopping over barriers and diving into trenches. It's bloody, killing limbs being blown all over the place, bullets being lodged into peoples bodies, sometimes even innocent people are caught in the grenade. Speaking about grenades, they may seem all poofy and harmless on TV, but in real life, they blow blood and limbs unto people and buildings. So yeah. War's bad. We don't want war.

 

 

 

Plus the fact that China supplies us with most of our products.

 

 

 

1. You're right. Its much better then the media shows it...they never show the humanitarian actions of our troops.

 

 

 

I was talking about a real war like World War II or Vietnam or one with China. Not a phony war like in Iraq

 

 

 

The troops suck. The war in Iraq is no longer for protection of our country. Also, you ever heard of Fallujallah, the town in Iraq? Yeah, our so-called troops destroyed the whole city looking for a few insurgents. Real nice. You put so many dozens of people out of houses because a few guys work for the enemy. For real, they don't have enough power to attack us anymore, security has improved so much more after September 11, 2001.

 

 

 

Also, the videos show justice. It just proves that any yokel can join the military these days. They're not protecting us anymore. I wish they would just pull out and leave the Iraqis to rebuild.

[/hide]

 

 

 

So the War in Iraq isn't a war? Seriously? Because to me a "war" is defined as any large scale, violent conflict.

 

 

 

The troops suck? Again are you serious??? I take offense to that, and i'm glad you are in the minority. Fallujah, doesn't really ring a bell.......oh yeah....i've been there have you? So called troops? Whats that supposed to mean? For your information Fallujah was, and is one of the most dangerous places in Iraq. How could there only be a few insurgents in the city dubbed the Insurgent stronghold?? We had the most urban combat in that city since Vietnam. TWICE. That was in 2004, 1 year after onset of the war.

 

 

 

Seriously just stop talking because you don't know whats going on. I've gotten my boots sandy, i've seen it before. Unlike America Iraq doesn't have multiple races of people. You can't tell friend from foe as easy. And they will turn on you with a drop of a hat. Give some kids candy one day, and they throw a grenade at you the next. You can have a guy work as a translator for you for a good 6 months, but as soon as the insurgents threaten his family, he's now popping shots at you.

 

 

 

Fallujah, a few insurgents...HAHAHAHA....its in the Al Anbar and it only has a few insurgents and we destroyed it for the hell of it? Ok....seriously, thats funny.

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Agreed, why would you pick a fight about combat that a Marine has been in and you haven't? All the "information" you hear is secondhand, not to mention completely biased.

 

 

 

Also, Agunimon, the time for that kind of war is over. Vietnam was and probably will be one of the last of those kinds of wars, ever. These days it'd modern combat, fighting an enemy that can be and is everywhere.

catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream

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They wouldn't be if they didn't have so many allies. But I guess for now they are the 'strongest' country. I'm sure in the future that will change though with other countries progressing at a high rate (China for example).

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I don't want war because it will inspire a Tom Cruise movie. I want to eliminate every possible threat to the U.S. If they hit first, we won't have any allies in this. In the end, a country has to think about itself. Tbh, we should have gone to China and Russia insteadof Iraq. Well, sort of. Iraq was first to find WMD's. None. Then to take Saddam. Done. Now why are we still there? Obviously what we've been doing for the past 7 years isn't working, it's time for a change in tactics.

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