the sword probably performs as well if not better than the dscimmi but its the necklace plus mace that makes it worth while. It's only a bar slower than the whip (i think) and hits a good 4-5 higher for me at least

One thing that annoys me is the whip + fury...I think people should compare whip + glory.

 

 

 

"Omg according to tipit calc whip or d scimmy is better!"...According to Jagex, Jad maxes at 97. And from reading this topic, it seems that most people who have actually TRIED this prefer the zerker necklace + obby weapon to d scimmy for str training. A lot of it seemed to be that obby weapons have crush/stab bonus...hmm....New hot-topic? As for controlled on whip.... Somehow between doing barrows and gw I always get my att and def up but not my str, even though I prefer to use controlled. Is it possible that the necklace bonus is to att and str? Void set and black mask and salve ammy is att and str bonus not just str bonus.

 

 

 

if a weapon was truly good it's price would reflect that...it would be just a matter of TIME. for example look at how the price of rune scims shot up when rs2 came out and jagex introduced a new concept of weapon speed...scims became the new weapon of choice over rune 2hs...similarly look at how the price of sara godswords started off less than 50M but more than doubled when ppl found out it's true value...the fact that the price of obby necklace remains low only implies one thing: it is not a good training method. you can rest assured that there are always hundreds if not thousands of people experimenting new ways to gain greater exp everyday and i'm sure the obby necklace would have come across their minds at some point in time but the fact that the price of the obby necklace has stayed down for so long goes to show how unpopular it is compared to other methods suggesting that there is a better option. a good weapon will never just fade away like that...

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not a matter of TIME, the ignorant masses won't realise how good it is/isn't someday unless it turns out to be the BEST option. Unless it is show 111% that it is better then the next alternative.

 

 

 

And someone said zammy spear owns all other weapons at waterfiends.... Guthan's Warspear has better crush bonus then Z spear. And if you already have a guthan set...Z spear does have +2 prayer bonus though.

 

 

 

OFFTOPIC: Dan, speaking of needing accuracy and why people don't use longswords/b axes if they need accuracy...Back when I had say level 40 att str def I had a scimmy and a longsword.I used my scimmy for moss giants and longsword for lessers because I need the accuracy. Things like this become less of a problem as you increase attack though.

About an earlier post saying jagex rounds down in fighting, like a 46.8 would be a 46? I find that to be untrue :roll: .

 

 

 

tip.it calc my max with bgs was around 49 (with special), i specked a 50 on a portal (pc).

 

 

 

E: Trying the combo now.

One thing that annoys me is the whip + fury...I think people should compare whip + glory.

 

 

 

Why should it be compared to Whip+Glory instead of the Fury? If it is to do with price, why do you compare it to the Whip at all? After all, it is more expensive already. Fury's price is still high as it has alot more uses and it has great bonuses. The Zerker Necklace is made from the exact same supplies, requires the same Magic level, and a lower Crafting level - essentially the exact same to make. The difference is their uses/bonuses, which is why it is so cheap (which sort of supports what Davidium said)

 

 

 

"Omg according to tipit calc whip or d scimmy is better!"...According to Jagex, Jad maxes at 97. And from reading this topic, it seems that most people who have actually TRIED this prefer the zerker necklace + obby weapon to d scimmy for str training. A lot of it seemed to be that obby weapons have crush/stab bonus...hmm....New hot-topic? As for controlled on whip.... Somehow between doing barrows and gw I always get my att and def up but not my str, even though I prefer to use controlled. Is it possible that the necklace bonus is to att and str? Void set and black mask and salve ammy is att and str bonus not just str bonus.

 

 

 

I can assume you were reffering to me as I mentioned that on the calculator the Whip hit higher. If you had read my post, I said "assuming that the calc is correct", or something very close to that. This is even proven in game that the Whip will hit higher compared to the Toktz-Xil-Ak. I never based what I said entirely on what the calculator showed. Scroll up, I even performed a test that showed Dragon Scimitar was better/equal on that specific NPC.

 

 

 

And someone said zammy spear owns all other weapons at waterfiends.... Guthan's Warspear has better crush bonus then Z spear. And if you already have a guthan set...Z spear does have +2 prayer bonus though.

 

 

 

Attack bonuses are extremeley helpful, I agree with that. However, the Zamorakian Spear has better Defence bonuses, +2 prayer bonus, and is also faster then Guthan's Spear. Also, according to GE prices, the Zamorakian Spear is also cheaper by 3 million. While it isn't the best weapon overall at Waterfiends, it's bonuses/price makes it a great weapon for them (better then Guthan's Spear).

 

 

 

About an earlier post saying jagex rounds down in fighting, like a 46.8 would be a 46? I find that to be untrue :roll: .

 

 

 

tip.it calc my max with bgs was around 49 (with special), i specked a 50 on a portal (pc).

 

 

 

E: Trying the combo now.

 

 

 

I never said it was true, but that it might be. In my experience nearly everything else in Runescape rounds down rather then up. You'll also find that the max hit calculator isn't completely accurate. This is also shown with the test I did (top of page). For example, when you choose the Saradomin/Zamorak Special on the calculator, it increases the max hit. According to Jagex, it doesn't increase damage at all.

 

 

 

[hide=Saradomin Special on KB]Inflicts normal damage, but restores half of the damage to your Hitpoints and a quarter to your Prayer. You will receive a minimum of 10 Hitpoints and 5 Prayer.[/hide]

Since I read this thread i've been thinking about trying this out instead of wasting loads on Monkey Madness.

 

 

 

Though it would take a long time to make 815k at lvl70 with rubbish stats....

*hint* awesome for Waterfiends ;)

*hint* awesome for Waterfiends ;)

 

In the good old days, awesome actually meant "very good", don't know what awesomeness you are talking about.

 

 

 

If you truly know your way around waterfiends, there are only three ways to go- zamorakian spear with range pray, saradomin sword with piety and dharoks with both range pray and piety. Waterfiends are the monsters that really show the weaknesses of obsidian weapons(with berserker necklace)- low prayer bonus, rune weapon-like attack bonuses and the lack of defense.

The thing you have to consider is that whips and scimys slash. Obby sword stabs, dagger slashes and mace crushes.

 

 

 

Of course, if you fight something weak to crush, scimmy or whip won't hit as much.

 

 

 

For exampla, hell hounds. I use zammy spear for this, not whip scim or obby.

 

 

 

Crush almost never hit. It took quite long to kill a hellhound crushing.

 

Slash was pretty accurate, but it hit a few low hits and some 0s

 

Stab either hit high (30+) or not at all. They are weak to stab.

 

 

 

That said, D scimy has HORRIBLE stab and decent slash. Slash might hit more, but overall in that case obby sword would be much better because it is pure stab.

Once you get the necklace, aren't you pretty much stuck with it? Who buys it, other than the people who have read this thread?

 

I have seen 7 people with this combo already lol.

 

 

 

Idk if someone said this but:

 

The necklace died with pking, maulers used it to hit 44s, then pking died and along with it, killed the part of the game which required thee most skill.

 

 

 

sorry but it didnt die with pking it still lives in bounty hunter and its very effective still

It died with pking. it was 2m wasn't it? It is now 560k.

 

It is used in bh but it was used on a MUCH LARGER SCALE in normal pking.

I find this moderately interesting:

 

In the result, the highest strength bonus equipment for all slots except weapon and neck is the constant.

 

The strength bonus of said items is: 40.

 

The variables are a whip + fury amulet, and a tztok-xil-ak (obby sword) + a berserker necklace.

 

Respectively, the strength bonuses of the two sets are 130 and 96.

 

The result is assuming that the attacker is using piety and a dragon battle axe special attack/super strength potion.

 

 

 

Using a max hit formula which I find to be 99% accurate (it's not TipIt's), These are the max hits of the whip + fury and the obby sword +zerker:

 

Whip- ~47.74

 

Tztok-xil-ak: ~47.75

 

 

 

Obviously, .01 damage does nothing, it is just there to say that the obby sword does in fact hit harder than a whip and at the same speed as well. Of course in general monster killing, the whip obviously wins, with a slash attack bonus of 105 using the relative above set, whereas the obby sword has measly +50 stab and +41 slash attack bonuses. If you want the formula I used, I'm not sure I can post it because though I know the website where it is from, I do not know the author and therefore cannot credit him/her.

 

Obviously, .01 damage does nothing, it is just there to say that the obby sword does in fact hit harder than a whip and at the same speed as well. Of course in general monster killing, the whip obviously wins, with a slash attack bonus of 105 using the relative above set, whereas the obby sword has measly +50 stab and +41 slash attack bonuses. If you want the formula I used, I'm not sure I can post it because though I know the website where it is from, I do not know the author and therefore cannot credit him/her.

 

 

 

Wrong. The sword has +50 stab and +41 slash when used alone.

 

 

 

The zerker neck takes away 10, so ti is +40 stab +31 slash.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course the whip is superior to it when slashing. the only way to find which one is more effective is to do this:

 

 

 

[*]Fight something with neutral defence bonuses. It isn't weak to anything, equal defense to stab slash and crush

 

[*]Since target is weak to everything equaly, you must pick the weapon with the highest attack and strength bonus.

 

THIS WOULD BE OBBY MACE, NOT MAUL AS IT IS 2 HANDED, AND WITH BONUSES, MACE IS EQUAL OR BETTER!

 

 

 

Mace has +62 crush and +56 strength. +52 crush with zerker neck, which MUST be used.

 

Whip has +82 slash and +82 strength.

 

 

 

As we fight something that isn't biased to any sttack style, it goes like this

 

 

 

mace: 52 accuracy, 56 strength

 

whip: 82 accuracy, 82 strength

 

 

 

The zerker neck adds 20% to yuor DAMAGE, not your strength, everything you hit will be 25% higher. a 10 would be a 12 for example.

 

 

 

NOW REMEMBER OUR TARGET IS AS WEAK TO SLASH AS IT IS TO CRUSH

 

 

 

This would prove that with only 52 accuracy, it will not hit as often as whip

 

This would prove that (WITHOUT THE ZERKER NECKLACE) the mace would not hit as high. However with it, it can hit nearly as high.

 

 

 

Now lets fight something weak to crush and strong vurses slash. We will use somebody in torags

 

 

 

It is a common fact that most melee armour has VERY high stab and slash.

 

 

 

This is Torag's plate defence bonus:

 

 

 

122 Stab

 

120 Slash

 

107 Crush

 

 

 

Now, if two weapons are close equals on something with equal defence bonus, then it is CLEARLY logical that something that is not biased to any attack style would be weakest to the one it is weak to!!

 

 

 

This doesn't change which one hits higher or not, only what you wear does. But it does show that YOUR RESULTS WILL BE BIASED UNLESS YOU FIGHT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT!!!

 

 

 

The mace would be superior to the whip in terms of accuracy vs. torag plate because it is weak to crush

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't believe me?

 

 

 

Fight waterfiends

 

 

 

Wear whatever you wish, so long as your attack bonus are equal.

 

 

 

Use dragon mace for crush. It has +60 bonus

 

Use a dragon battleaxe for slash. It has +80 SLASH

 

 

 

With most if your logic, the battleaxe will be better because it has better attack bonus AND higher strength!

 

But with my logic and smart peoples logic IT WON'T WORK

 

 

 

...why? :'(

 

 

 

THE MONSTER YOU ARE FIGHTING IS WEAK TO CRUSH!!

 

 

 

 

 

:o

 

 

 

omg srsly? there r 3 mele styls dat i cn use 2 fite??

 

 

 

Yes, noobinator567, there are. If you fight to the monsters weakness, you will fight better. Be stubbon and fight to their strength and you are a complete and utter moron

*hint* awesome for Waterfiends ;)

 

In the good old days, awesome actually meant "very good", don't know what awesomeness you are talking about.

 

 

 

If you truly know your way around waterfiends, there are only three ways to go- zamorakian spear with range pray, saradomin sword with piety and dharoks with both range pray and piety. Waterfiends are the monsters that really show the weaknesses of obsidian weapons(with berserker necklace)- low prayer bonus, rune weapon-like attack bonuses and the lack of defense.

 

Obby Mace (not Maul) and Zerker necklase works well for me.

 

Obviously, .01 damage does nothing, it is just there to say that the obby sword does in fact hit harder than a whip and at the same speed as well. Of course in general monster killing, the whip obviously wins, with a slash attack bonus of 105 using the relative above set, whereas the obby sword has measly +50 stab and +41 slash attack bonuses. If you want the formula I used, I'm not sure I can post it because though I know the website where it is from, I do not know the author and therefore cannot credit him/her.

 

 

 

Wrong. The sword has +50 stab and +41 slash when used alone.

 

 

 

The zerker neck takes away 10, so ti is +40 stab +31 slash.

 

 

 

 

 

mace: 52 accuracy, 56 strength

 

whip: 82 accuracy, 82 strength

 

 

 

~~~The zerker neck adds 20% to yuor DAMAGE, not your strength, everything you hit will be 25% higher. a 10 would be a 12 for example.~~~

 

 

 

NOW REMEMBER OUR TARGET IS AS WEAK TO SLASH AS IT IS TO CRUSH

 

 

 

 

You might want to check your attack stats:

 

a toktz-xil-ak has +47 stab +38 stab attack on its own and +37/+28 with the necklace.

 

 

 

I have no idea how you got on to the topic of comparing the mace. I never mentioned the mace in my post at all. If you're trying to say that the sword can out hit the whip in terms of accuracy, then that would only happen if the most had a case of Ahrim's armor ie it has +200 slash defense but +0 stab defense, which basically does not exist with melee. If you were trying to make a logical argument with someone else, then why did you quote me? :oops:

Because you said the sword isnt as good as the whip, when fighting diffirent monsters weak to stab, sword would be better.

 

 

 

I used the mace because out of all weaps, it has highest accuracy, even though crush, and it jsut became accuracy because what I was useing as an example was equally strong to crush and slash

Because you said the sword isnt as good as the whip, when fighting diffirent monsters weak to stab, sword would be better.

 

 

 

I used the mace because out of all weaps, it has highest accuracy, even though crush, and it jsut became accuracy because what I was useing as an example was equally strong to crush and slash

 

The mace is slower than the sword and against monsters with universal weaknesses, the sword is much better purely because of its speed. And at some point, weapon lvls will eventually be the reason why some weapons are better than others (which is how it should be). Even though people know that blue dragons are weak to stab and ranged attacks, no one purely kills them with a dds. Sure, they bring a dds for its specials, but then mostly everyone switches to their dragon scimitar or whip. Why? Because your offense does matter. I highly doubt that even though the blue drags would be weak to the obby sword, the abyssal whip would kill it faster even with a zerker necklace. Of course, there is one thing I forgot to mention: because the toktz-xil-ak + berserker necklace combo heavily relies on the stats of the wielder, I could be wrong with the above example if a lvl 120 started killing them with an obby sword as opposed to a lvl 100 using the combo.

Can any one tell me is dscimmy + fury, sara sword + fury, or obby method better for trainng str?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Shadow

Can any one tell me is dscimmy + fury, sara sword + fury, or obby method better for trainng str?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Shadow

 

The d scimmy in this case is the worst of the three. A saradomin sword has +12 strength bonus more than a d scimmy + rune defender. If the Saradomin sword hits either the same or harder than the whip (on aggressive), then the sword is better than the toktz-xil-ak + berserker necklace. If it hits lower, then the toktz-xil-ak still wins because it also will always hit more than a whip. The toktz-xil-ak will only be best if you are fighting low defense, high hp monsters. So don't go fighting a blue dragon with it and expect to win ;) .

It's all down to personal experience and preference and the levels of the wielder. I did some recent testing on a variety of monsters while slaying. With max melee stats, these are my thoughts on using the obby split-sword:

 

 

 

- Gargoyles: It can hit, but not often enough, as they are already more resistant to slash attacks over crush. The obby mace was too slow and still too inaccurate to be worth over using a whip, ss, or godsword.

 

 

 

+ Greater Demons: As they have no armor and moderate natural defense, the sword can work well on them. It can tear through them in a few hits even if you are not using a defender with or without piety.

 

 

 

- Sugahs: I recall I missed a fairly greater amount than with usual monsters, with both the sword and a whip. You can hit, but probably want to stick to a whip or godsword on these.

 

 

 

+ Fire Giants: Just like greater demons, the sword worked quite nicely on them. They seem a bit weak to stab attacks as well. Personally my favorite task to use this sword on.

 

 

 

+ Hellhounds: Despite their level, they have no armor and moderate natural defense. I found the sword surprisingly decent on them. Due to their high accuracy even when using normal gear and a shield, I would suggest praying on these if you use the sword.

 

 

 

- Metal Dragons: Not going to work well, even with the mace. A whip with piety is nice though.

 

 

 

+ Dagannoth: It's good. I tend to piety on these guys, but I don't recall ever missing more than my whip did even without.

 

 

 

- Nechyrael: Being under constant attack from spawns means you're going to need to be able to put up with attacks more, so the necklace's defense lowering may be too much this time. Take a fury and a whip, and the obby combo and see which works better for you.

 

 

 

+ Dust Devils: It works well on these.

 

 

 

+ Spiritual Mages: I noticed they may be weaker to stab a bit. I don't remember missing more often than a whip using the sword.

 

 

 

Basically it's all how it works for you. Even with a DFS instead of a defender on most of these, I still hit decently. I seemed to reach a max hit on some tasks more often than I otherwise would with a whip. If you are willing to sacrifice a little prayer bonus and the possibility of someone wondering what in the world you are doing (until you poke a 50), and the defense loss is not a worry, then it's definitely a valid method for strength exp.

Another question could be whether obsidian MAUL with berserker necklace is comparable to Dharoking when taking into account the fact that Dharoking can be expensive and risky.

 

 

 

I'd be glad to test it if i had a couple mil laying around, but I don't.

 

 

 

Small comparison of the two:

 

-Though Dharok's can hit harder it requires low hp and often prayer to utilize it. This is an obvious weakness that limits the usefulness of this armor set.

 

-The obsidian maul with necklace combo can also yield some very high hits. This choice also allows the user to remain at full hp... Another plus being that the user has much more flexibility in equipment choice. Bring in the lack of maintenance costs, among other costs associated with Dharoking, and this option is far more cost effective.

 

 

 

EDIT: If void melee stacks with the berserker necklace bonus i think the maul is by far the better choice. Not to mention that it'd look good too.

\EDIT: If void melee stacks with the berserker necklace bonus i think the maul is by far the better choice. Not to mention that it'd look good too.

 

It stacks, but melee only counts for about +15 or so str bonus. I hit +1 harder with torso, barrows, gloves, and helm of netz. I don't think it's worth it for training, but in pvp it has its uses in short term do to the immense accuracy bonus (10%). because the maul is so slow, I'd rather get a higher defense than get void. The anchor is better than the tzhaar-ket-em purely because it's more accurate, has an awesome special attack, and much better speed. It also has a REALLY bigger boost in str than the maul. Of course, since I can hit a 45 with the maul, it might be worth it as opposed to my 32 with the anchor...but both are just for the final blow.

what about the obby knife and its slash?

what about the obby knife and its slash?

 

 

 

The same reason why people don't train with dragon daggers, the speed isn't enough to compensate for the much lower bonuses.

i quite like the obby method

 

i dont want to buy a sara sword so this is better than d scimmy but not stupidly expensive