Moral Dilemma

[RichieMcD]

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

 

 

Kill the lone construction worker, 3 is greater than one.

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

Kill the baby, although it is a human life and so young it could lead to the death of 5 others, if caught the Nazi's would most likely kill the baby and everyone else. Lose or lose big, hard but simple choice.

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

 

 

The exact same, as I said lose small or lose big.

 

[warren211]

I wish I could say I'd do the obvious: if it was the choice of saving three lives at the cost of one, I'd save as many lives as I could. But I couldn't see myself killing my own baby to save people I don't know. I'd try my best to find an alternative: trying desperatly to rock my baby or sing in whispers or just cover his mouth a bit to shut him up. But killing him? I'm not sure. I'd probably gladly do it to some other person's child if it meant saving my own or other lives. I'm a rather selfless and hypocritical bastard, aren't I?

[Skull]

Seriously these threads are pointless...

 

 

 

But if you insist.

 

 

 

1. Alert the workers. Like someone said, throwing something at them would probably work. If I really had to I'd probably just let the train keep going how it was. That way I couldn't really be blamed, and there's a better chance one of the three would notice the train than the lone worker. Not that the situation would come up since there are a lot of safety procedures when you're working in a place like that and the workers know if they don't follow them there's a good chance they'll be killed.

 

 

 

2a. Grab the baby and run like hell.

 

2b. Grab the baby and run like hell.

[warri0r45]

Seriously these threads are pointless...

 

 

 

What's pointless about getting people to think about their own moral principals? What's so pointless about exposing people to alternate points of view?

 

 

 

Thankfully these are only hypotheticals and we're not choosing for real, but as far as I'm concerned there's some value in talking about this stuff.

[Skull]

Seriously these threads are pointless...

 

 

 

What's pointless about getting people to think about their own moral principals? What's so pointless about exposing people to alternate points of view?

 

 

 

Thankfully these are only hypotheticals and we're not choosing for real, but as far as I'm concerned there's some value in talking about this stuff.

 

That would be better worded as "Having so many of these threads is pointless..."

[pureprayer]

Seriously these threads are pointless...

 

 

 

What's pointless about getting people to think about their own moral principals? What's so pointless about exposing people to alternate points of view?

 

 

 

Thankfully these are only hypotheticals and we're not choosing for real, but as far as I'm concerned there's some value in talking about this stuff.

 

That would be better worded as "Having so many of these threads is pointless..."

 

or having any of these threads are wasting our time and killing our souls one by one.

 

 

 

kill the 3 people and use another baby to shut the 1st baby up.

[Returned3]

1. Err if the huge train with the unconsious driver unable to hit the brakes is heading for the workers with loud and probably huge tools... it's hard to say actually. The machinery would probably cushion the impact and since 3 men are standing on the tracks, it would most likely seem as they would be merely just pushed aside as they wouldnt be standing directly in the middle whereas the single worker would be hit smack middle and fly miles. So using general knowledge, I wouldn't do anything.

 

 

 

2a. The obvious thing to do would be to shut the baby's mouth for the time being using my hand but if I have to choose either one of the options, I'd say kill the baby as we're going to die if we get caught.

 

2b. Kill the baby, if we get caught we're all going to die anyway.

[Lenin64]

1. Err if the huge train with the unconsious driver unable to hit the brakes is heading for the workers with loud and probably huge tools... it's hard to say actually. The machinery would probably cushion the impact and since 3 men are standing on the tracks, it would most likely seem as they would be merely just pushed aside as they wouldnt be standing directly in the middle whereas the single worker would be hit smack middle and fly miles. So using general knowledge, I wouldn't do anything.

 

Given the sheer size and speed of a train, I'm pretty sure that even an indirect hit can be fatal. Maybe not, but the heavy machinery probably won't help and just be turned into deadly missiles. Think of a car on the tracks; they always say run towards the train because your car will go flying and potentially hit you. Or the lone guy you think you saved.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

If I pulled the lever there'd just be an almighty crash between two trains anyway, because one's on the wrong line. 3 people < 2 trains.

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

Just give it something to suck on? It's crying for a reason, see what it is, cater to it, and it would stop crying.

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

I'm a virgin. That really would be a miracle anyway.

[Housepig]

In terms of personal, not absolute, morals -- i.e illogicaly seeking the survival of life simply because it is a human instinct -- I would do the following...

 

 

 

1: I would change tracks; killing one person to save three is "right" based on my personal morals.

 

 

 

2: I would probably not kill the baby, since I could not force myself to; however, even if I did leave the baby alive, the Germans would probably kill it anyway, so I would merely be doing so out of irational instinct.

 

 

 

2A: As above.

[dragoonson]

Situation 1.Switch the tracks to stop the train.Really,its not that hard.The driver has eyes,you know.

 

 

 

Situation 2.Throw the baby at the Nazis then when they go to investigate,bang bang,problem solved.No nazis,no babies.

[pureprayer]

Wouldn't the train conductor know that there was construction on that area?

 

 

 

If not illegal train so derail it.

 

If not and illegal workers kill the 3 and then when the next train comes kill the last one

 

 

 

Use the baby as a DFS and run

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

It was after reading this thread, I thought of posting this.

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=775627

 

If you've read that thread, then you'd know that it was intended to question your morality, however due to some odd circumstances, response wasn't clear. Here's my moral dilemma:

 

 

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

switch the lever, 3>1

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

Kill the baby, a baby would just hinder your chances at survival anyway and you could always make another. Plus 5>1 once again.

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

look above, my reasons wouldn't change

[blushenka]

Meh, I get that this is supposed to be a moral dilemma but the circumstances are so unrealistic. In Situation 1, why doesn't the train conductor see where he is going, and therefore stop the train before it sees either of the workers? Secondly, even if these workers have ear plugs, do they also stand facing only in one direction that just happens to be opposite to the one the train is coming from? If that seemingly ghost train has no passengers, perhaps it's better to try and derail it off the tracks altogether, since apparently it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place (the construction workers wouldn't be there if they knew the train lines were in use).

 

Situation 2 and Situation 3: I think that it's very likely that once the baby started crying, the Nazis already heard him (it's what tends to happen in real life, as opposed to in movies, where bad guys tend to be more stupid and more deaf than average ;p), so it's pointless to try and silence him afterwards. Everyone should make a run for it immediately.

[ThurinEthir]

Situation 2.Throw the baby at the Nazis then when they go to investigate,bang bang,problem solved.No nazis,no babies.

 

Thank you for stealing my answer.

 

By throwing the baby, you may injure a Nazi in the process, confuse them, and shut the baby up.

[Randox]

Logicaly you would switch the train and smother the baby in both cases. However, since we would have to be in the situation to know what we would do, whats the point in answering. This thred is full of gueses and justification, but in these situations you can't think. In the first situation, pulling the lever means you have killed someone plain and simple. Had you done nothing that person would have lived, their death is directly YOUR FAULT. However should you do nothing, its more a grey area. Does doing nothing make you guilty? I don't know what I would do, and I don't wan't to find out. Can I do nothing and let 3 people die, or can I kill someone to save 3 people?

 

 

 

Now, can you kill someone to save yourself? Well probably not, but saving many other people changes things. I this situation I can guess that yes, I can smother the baby, is it right? don't know. This is moraly a bit easier since your all going to die, baby included if you do nothing, but still, this actively reqires commiting murder, and on a baby.

 

 

 

Now if it was my own child, that changes things, which from a practical point it shouldn't but I would have to be without morals to see that way. I guess if I could smother anothers persons baby it is only fair I would do the same to my own in otherwise identical circumstances. But would I...again I should hope I never know.

 

 

 

Oh, about the train stopping...a train is very heavy, were talking hundreds of tons. There is no way it is going to stop in the time it takes to run 100 metres. A freight train takes miles to stop, and they don't even go fast in North America. A passenger train can't stop much faster, it will still take miles. Now in a shunting yard situation, a train might stop in time, but no garuntee.

[Zierro]

However, since we would have to be in the situation to know what we would do, whats the point in answering.

 

 

 

Exactly. What is said on a forum would probably change if it were to happen in real life. I know my actions would just be based off my instincts and I wouldn't have enough time to weigh the pros and cons to make a logical decision.

[pureprayer]

Posting on this thread MAY cause people to lose lives because if before you kill the 1 person and this thread makes you kill the 3 people its 2 PEOPLE DYING

[EdgedThesis]

However, since we would have to be in the situation to know what we would do, whats the point in answering.

 

 

 

Exactly. What is said on a forum would probably change if it were to happen in real life. I know my actions would just be based off my instincts and I wouldn't have enough time to weigh the pros and cons to make a logical decision.

 

 

 

OR, if these exact same situations showed up in reality, people may turn to their choices on this forum reflexively.

 

 

 

They'll hear the rhythmic thumping of the train's pistons as it hurtles towards the three workers, their hearts will be matching the beat--and their minds will be clouded with adrenaline and fear.

 

And so they'll brace upon something they already went over before... this thread.

 

They'll call upon a time where they could think clearly, remember their choice,

 

and execute it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: V--Good point.

[purfishx]

 

OR, if these exact same situations showed up in reality, people may turn to their choices on this forum reflexively.

 

 

 

They'll hear the rhythmic thumping of the train's pistons as it hurtles towards the three workers, their hearts will be matching the beat--and their minds will be clouded with adrenaline and fear.

 

And so they'll brace upon something they already went over before... this thread.

 

They'll call upon a time where they could think clearly, remember their choice,

 

and execute it.

 

 

 

OR, not.

[Distracted]

Well, the first situation is a bit of a strange one, since they ought to notice the train, even with the earplugs. I'd try to get as close to them as possible, since not only would I have no idea what I'd be doing if I pull the lever but if I shout loud enough, I may get through their earplugs. Also, someone else that's around could pull the lever or something...

 

 

 

Now the second one is even tougher. WWII is a dark time, and I'd probably not want to live to see it happen further. I'd sacrifice myself easier in this situation. Following Godess' logic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's another one:

 

 

 

You work at a bridge where a train passes, that opens and closes. You have a son which you really love, and your wife died years ago. Your son likes watching trains pass, so he frequently comes along when you're in your shack. Usually the bridge is open so the boats underneath can pass.

 

 

 

One day you're reading a magazine and not paying attention, while your son is. Your son notices a train is coming while the bridge is open so he's shouting at the top of his lungs. He then accidently falls into a hole, which will squish him if you close the bridge. You don't have enough time to get him out of there and still close the bridge, so you have to choice. By the way: that train has a reputation of having a lot ex-prisoners and people who use drugs and such.

[RpgGamer]

1:

 

Interesting question. If you were to let the train go, you would feel as though you could have done something. Then again, The workers should have known the train was coming, so it was more their fault then yours. Following the logic that 3 lives > 1 life. You would hit the switch. The problem now is that you are personally responsible for taking a man's life. This sucks even more because he was the one smart enough to not work on the area the train was still running on. If the 1 guy died, you'd feel awful for taking the guys life, and the other three guys would feel responsible because their stupidity cost them their friend. Personally I'd probably go with instinct and flip the switch. This would of course be followed by a mad dash for the lone worker in a desperate attempt to get his attention.

 

 

 

2a: I'd stick my finger in the babies mouth and cover it's head with a blanket. Just not with lethal force. Babies rarely survived those kind of conditions anyway, not that that justifys killing the purely innocent. In short, i'd stifle/muffle. But not kill.

 

 

 

2b: Same answer, but if I must, I'd dash out with the baby into the Nazi forces so that I am killed and hopefully grab the attention away from the other survivors. I wouldn't want to live after watching someone murder a baby anyway.

[IGoddessI]

Also thought about letting the 3 people die as hopefully it might make news/news paper headlines and educate train workers on rail safety. It might also cause a large reaction in their union for workers rights/safety. Three lives could then prevent 20. Fate works in funny ways which is why I try not to screw with it. You just never know why something is happening. Without bad, there could be no good in the world. One life could also do the same but does it sound dramatic enough to get through to the right people? 3 lives sounds better and should hopefully make more of an impact on readers. I like to view life that the train and those 3 people were fate. Or was it my fate to push the lever? Either way I wouldn't want the responsibility so would probably look the other way.

[RpgGamer]

. Three lives could then prevent 20. Fate works in funny ways which is why I try not to screw with it. You just never know why something is happening. Without bad, there could be no good in the world.

 

 

 

:o

 

I think I love you.

 

(btw, how is your baby doing?, I haven't spoken to you in months) :

 

 

 

But seriously, your view of fate and balance of good and bad are identicle to my own philosophies. The difference is...I love screwing with fate. Mostly because fate is often cruel and unjust. I frequently feel the need to step in and atleast try to balance out fate. As for the whole good vs. bad thing...spot on to what I've been thinking. There will always be a shadow cast somewhere when there is a light.

[purfishx]

 

The difference is...I love screwing with fate. Mostly because fate is often cruel and unjust. I frequently feel the need to step in and atleast try to balance out fate.

 

 

 

That post confuses me. This means that you know what fate means to be? And fate is flawed so its up to you to fix it? :?