Moral Dilemma

[Balazeal]

It was after reading this thread, I thought of posting this.

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=775627

 

If you've read that thread, then you'd know that it was intended to question your morality, however due to some odd circumstances, response wasn't clear. Here's my moral dilemma:

 

 

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

[Lenticular_J]

Argh. I hate approaching moral problems morally, or logical problems logically. It's so unnatural. Mainly because I can't see myself in any of these situations in real life.

[compfreak847]

1. Switch tracks: it's the death of 1 vs. 3. Either way, I'll have the other choice on my conscience the rest of my life; I'd rather know I killed 1 person but let 3 live then the other way around.

 

 

 

2. I don't know. I don't know if I could kill a baby in cold blood. Possibly smoother as much as possible to make it be quiet.

 

 

 

2a. I wouldn't kill it. I'd try to muffle it as much as possible with a blanket, but I wouldn't want to live knowing I'd killed one of my own children. Besides, there's always a chance of getting out of the camps.

[Giordano]

God damnit stop posting this crap when its never going to happen.

[Riku3220]

It was after reading this thread, I thought of posting this.

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=775627

 

If you've read that thread, then you'd know that it was intended to question your morality, however due to some odd circumstances, response wasn't clear. Here's my moral dilemma:

 

 

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

 

 

P1 - Switch the tracks. 3 lives > 1 life

 

 

 

P2A - There's a trick Native Americans used to shut their kids up. You cover their nose and mouth for like 5 seconds then when they gasp for air to start crying again they grab their face again. Eventually the child learns that they like to breathe and don't cry over trivial things anymore.

 

 

 

P2B - see above

[redhaloguy]

Problem 1: Do nothing. It's not your fault anyways. It's really the workers and the train drivers fault because they don't do things according to time. Because if they are working they should be able to see it. Also why switch tracks you'll piss off the people on the train.

 

 

 

Problem 2: Give the baby something like a bottle or a pasifer (sp). If they can't find that. Which is unusual... Then put something over it's mouth like its thumb or something.

 

 

 

Not writing 2a. About the same thing for above.

 

 

 

I just hate questions like these. You still become the loser in the situation even if it is imaginary.

[nine naked men]

1. Throw rocks at them. If that failed, I'd leave it towards the three people, because there'd be a larger chance of me attracting one person's attention/them seeing the train than the one guy.

 

 

 

... wait, shouldn't the train driver be able to see them? And why are they wearing earplugs? Wouldn't that mean they'd be using fairly heavy/loud/big machinery that the train driver could see?

 

 

 

And how would they not see a massive train barrelling down towards them?

 

 

 

Anyways...

 

 

 

2. Why would you have to kill it? Just... err, knock it out or something? Hell, even just hold its mouth shut or something.

 

 

 

3. ... it'd be more likely to calm down if I was his parent trying to calm him down, I'm guessing.

[Lenin64]

A: Allow me to say what I did last time. Pull the lever so the track half-switches, and the train de-rails. Saves everyone except the hundred or so people in the train.

 

 

 

B: Silence the worm. Not kill necessarily, since in my experience simply covering a person's mouth is enough to keep them quiet. But if need be, kill it. Although chances are the Nazis will hear as soon as the baby starts, and you're still screwed. My way, you're screwed, but with a dead baby. Hey, maybe you can make jokes on the way to the concentration camp.

[l0rd]

1. Easy, I would save the three, I don't get how that could be hard for anyone. But in reality switching the tracks may cause an accident to the train, so I actually wouldn't pull the lever only because I wouldn't know what the {bleep} I was doing, and wouldn't want to risk the lives of the people on the train. But if the circumstances were so that there was no chance of train-wreckage, definitely would pull the lever.

 

 

 

2. Kill the baby

 

 

 

3. Kill the baby, yes I know people may say differently on a forum, but I'm trying to be as honest as possible. (and I might feel differently when I actually have a child of my own)

 

 

 

for situations 2 & 3 I'd probably try to find an alternative, I can overpower a babies screams if I knock it out or block its mouth with my hand.

[nine naked men]

A: Allow me to say what I did last time. Pull the lever so the track half-switches, and the train de-rails. Saves everyone except the hundred or so people in the train.

 

 

 

B: Silence the worm. Not kill necessarily, since in my experience simply covering a person's mouth is enough to keep them quiet. But if need be, kill it. Although chances are the Nazis will hear as soon as the baby starts, and you're still screwed. My way, you're screwed, but with a dead baby. Hey, maybe you can make jokes on the way to the concentration camp.

 

 

 

Or it could make for an impromptu weapon.

[Lenticular_J]

I have a twist on them. First one: The one man has a wife with no legs, and four deaf children. The other three are pedophiles and abusive to their wives and children.

 

 

 

Two: The baby is destined to grow up and discover the cure to cancer. Everyone else in the shack is to be a mass murderer.

 

 

 

Moral dilemmas are stinky.

[EdgedThesis]

1:

 

 

 

Switch train tracks. A lone construction worker is easier to try and save than three. You never mentioned if the lone construction worker was as difficult to run to as the group of three.

 

 

 

But if he was, then it's just the law of differences. Save three, lose one.

 

 

 

2:

 

 

 

Is killing necessary? Why not just temporary muting?

 

If it is necessary, then I would kill it quickly.

 

 

 

2b:

 

 

 

[cabbage]. Difficult. And also sad that I encounter an ethical problem just because of something as small as a genetic link to a baby.

 

 

 

I wouldn't want him/her to grow up in an atmosphere of death. Or be held responsible for other people's deaths.

 

 

 

Sometimes oblivion is better than guilt. I'd smother the baby.

[Guest]

It was after reading this thread, I thought of posting this.

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=775627

 

If you've read that thread, then you'd know that it was intended to question your morality, however due to some odd circumstances, response wasn't clear. Here's my moral dilemma:

 

 

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

 

 

This reminds me of another thread ahile ago. Of course pull the lever, its not right to kill 3 innocent men and let one live.

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

Couldn't you just...Muffle the crying? Anyways, i'd let it live. I just couldnt kill something that young, and then theres the fact that the soliders might not notice/think it is a "normal" baby.

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?Same as above

[warri0r45]

Problem 1: Switch the tracks so it hits the one, not the three. The way I look at it, you're essentially saving two lives, not killing one.

 

 

 

Problem 2: I've heard it before, but the way it was told to me was that you knew for certain that you and everyone else would be caught and killed. In that case, I'd kill the baby (even if it was mine) because it would die if we were all caught anyway. There's no use in throwing life away like that for no reason. Again, I'd look at it as saving many lives, not taking one. But, if there's only some chance that the group will be caught, well that just complicates things. I'm not so sure about that scenario.

 

 

 

As always, I'm sure these scenarios would be much harder to deal with if they happened for real.

[deathdrow]

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

well. the baby would end up dying anyways, so kill it. and then throw it at the nazis and kick their [wagon].

[IGoddessI]

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

 

 

Let nature take it's course. Cruel I know. I'd look the other way and keep walking. I don't want anything to do with playing God with levers even if it does kill 3 people. I'd tell myself that they should have taken better precaution. If I didn't see it happen, then I can live with it.

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

I would decide the baby that is crying loudly has already captured the attention of Nazi soldiers and try to make a run for it elsewhere. I'd be trying to save my own [wagon]. If I stay where I am, I'm only going to be shot anyway. Someone else can live with the decision.

 

 

 

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

 

 

Hypothetically I would flee and create a diversion some distance away and sacrifice my life for my baby. If my baby ended up dying too then at least I'm not around to see it. I'd rather be dead than living with my son's death.

[I_am_Geed]

Give the baby a sucker, that would shut it up outright :lol: :thumbsup:

[Da_Latios]

Scenario 1) It is not up to me to play with fate. You don't know what the situation of people on the train is. What if about 10 people who are in need of urgent medical care are on the train, and by saving the 3 workmen, you have killed 11(10 plus the one on the track). I would leave fate to decide.

 

 

 

Scenario 2) I may try to knock the baby unconscious. This may result in brain damage, but there is also a chance that it won't.

[Howlin0001]

 

... wait, shouldn't the train driver be able to see them? And why are they wearing earplugs? Wouldn't that mean they'd be using fairly heavy/loud/big machinery that the train driver could see?

 

And how would they not see a massive train barrelling down towards them?

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

 

Problem 1

 

You are at a train yard, at the side of a track. A train is approaching, and in its path, are three men about 100 meters away. They are construction workers, working on a nearby track and are wearing ear plugs and cannot hear your warning them. You could try to run to them, but by the time you got to them they train would have hit them. In front of you is a lever, if you pull that level the train will switch tracks, however on the other track is a lone construction worker, also unaware of the coming train. What do you do?

 

That would never happen because implying they are working on the would mean there is something wrong with the track in the first going on and then no train should be doing on that track. Wouldn't it?

 

Any chance we can have more information on that lone worker? Like do he/she have ear plugs (if he/she don't then he/she will hear the train coming and move), if he/she do then, how far away from you is he/she? Could you run toward them and push them out of the way? If he/she is too far away then throw something at him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Problem 2 A

 

You are in WWII. You are a Jewish person hiding away from Nazi search parties. You, and a group of survivors (about 5 people) hide in a shack. You hear Nazi soldiers nearby, when a baby starts crying. The baby is crying loudly and could catch the attention of Nazi soldiers. You could smother and kill the baby to try and save yourself, and the others in the shack, or you could allow it to live, but compromise your position. What do you do?

 

 

 

Run out and try distract the the soldiers and lead them away from the shack and let the other people escape.

 

Problem 2 B

 

Alternative: What would you do if it was your baby?

 

Same as above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm curious about one thing. The people who said 1 life is less then the group, then why didn't you run out and try distract the Nazis and let the rest of the people escape?

 

Sure it would be your one life to save all the other peoples lives.

 

 

 

 

 

But really for me it would probably be a kind of spur of the moment thing and alot of other factors as well e.g what mood I am, why I'm in the middle of the train yard etc etc.

[Laura]

1. Throw rocks at them. If that failed, I'd leave it towards the three people, because there'd be a larger chance of me attracting one person's attention/them seeing the train than the one guy.

 

 

 

... wait, shouldn't the train driver be able to see them? And why are they wearing earplugs? Wouldn't that mean they'd be using fairly heavy/loud/big machinery that the train driver could see?

 

 

 

And how would they not see a massive train barrelling down towards them?

 

 

 

Anyways...

 

 

 

2. Why would you have to kill it? Just... err, knock it out or something? Hell, even just hold its mouth shut or something.

 

 

 

3. ... it'd be more likely to calm down if I was his parent trying to calm him down, I'm guessing.

 

Exactly, and you could feel the vibrations.

 

 

 

I'd probably do the same as Godess. I don't think I could live with myself if I killed my child.

[Dizzle229]

 

I'd probably do the same as Godess. I don't think I could live with myself if I killed my child.

 

 

 

Then just hand the kid to me, I need the protein.

[doomy]

Hy is everyone saying "why can't the train driver see them" or similar, just leave it as one person or 3. Just put it in a different scenario.

[Cup Lion]

Requirements for the Two-Fold Effect to be Moral.

 

 

 

Look it up.

[llcoolguy972]

God damnit stop posting this crap when its never going to happen.

 

This.

 

 

 

Of course, if I ever to find myself in one of these train situations, I would probably be laughing so hard that I'm in a hypothetical situation and the 3 would die. Oh well.

[Seraphi]

I always tend to take a calculated apporach to these.

 

take the option which allows the most people to survive.