17th February 2009 - Wilderness and Real-World Trading Q&A

[Yomyth105]

All of them were pretty much the same question, but i thought it was interesting on how jagex viewed junk trading to become a positive thing/not a problem...

[Misterknowitall]

All of them were pretty much the same question, but i thought it was interesting on how jagex viewed junk trading to become a positive thing/not a problem...

 

 

 

They shouldn't.

[Lionheart_0]

I've always wondered why, if credit card fraud seems to be the main problem for RWT, they haven't taken out credit card payments and switched to prepaid cards, paypal, etc. This would take care of the credit card fraud issues, and while it may be slightly more difficult or expensive to pay, I am sure it is a much better alternative to the RWT measure taken today.

 

 

 

This won't work, you can just buy prepaid cards with stolen credit cards.....

 

 

 

 

 

It would work. If you buy prepaid cards from the store, all the cards area already paid for, and it is just the person buying and giving the money to the store, so the fraud is the stores issue, not jagex's. And in many cases, it is harder to use a stolen credit card in person then it is over the net.

[bedman]

I'm dissapointed they aren't intending to fix the GE or the junk system.

[Sy_Accursed]

I've always wondered why, if credit card fraud seems to be the main problem for RWT, they haven't taken out credit card payments and switched to prepaid cards, paypal, etc. This would take care of the credit card fraud issues, and while it may be slightly more difficult or expensive to pay, I am sure it is a much better alternative to the RWT measure taken today.

 

 

 

This won't work, you can just buy prepaid cards with stolen credit cards.....

 

 

 

 

 

It would work. If you buy prepaid cards from the store, all the cards area already paid for, and it is just the person buying and giving the money to the store, so the fraud is the stores issue, not jagex's. And in many cases, it is harder to use a stolen credit card in person then it is over the net.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah in person requires pin numbers and signatures etc plus many stolen cards will have warnings put out on them to stores so things will pop up on thier screens to say bad card etc.

[Lielac]

Q) Samrulz432 - You have bought a type of pking back called pvp, but many people would like pvp to just be in the wild. you could also have worlds where it is worldwide pking, and a couple with just wild pking?

 

A) I like this idea :) Ill discuss this with the content team in more detail.

 

 

 

Wild-only Pking... mayybeeee...

 

 

 

I'd live on those worlds. I'd SO live on those worlds.

 

 

 

Hope it IS implimented... I'm seeing the old days come back but betterrrr. Okay, besides the whole 'poo for you, you died and didn't get a gravestone, your corpse is free stuff to bystanders' thing which would prolly be there toooooo, buuuuut that just drives the point home that DYING IS DUMB IDEA, JA?

[Stonepilot]

Woot! I was on there! But they spelled my name wrong, it's stonepiloit2..

 

Wow, someone read 167 pages worth of crap.

 

 

 

I really like this guys answers, although he seems way too positive to me.. but that's just my negative side. He does sound like a PR pro though.

[Everyonedies]

^^ I bet he had his pr team go over his answers to double check them for content.

[Misterknowitall]

Woot! I was on there! But they spelled my name wrong, it's stonepiloit2..

 

Wow, someone read 167 pages worth of crap.

 

 

 

I really like this guys answers, although he seems way too positive to me.. but that's just my negative side. He does sound like a PR pro though.

 

 

 

It's because supermod Andrew answers them...

[Stonepilot]

Woot! I was on there! But they spelled my name wrong, it's stonepiloit2..

 

Wow, someone read 167 pages worth of crap.

 

 

 

I really like this guys answers, although he seems way too positive to me.. but that's just my negative side. He does sound like a PR pro though.

 

 

 

It's because supermod Andrew answers them...

 

I know that. It just seems like he's being a bit too honest. Trying to stop people from complaining.

[Obtaurian]

His opinion of junk trading is interesting, but nonetheless, it's nice to see Andrew answering questions. I'm excited to see how they improve duel tournaments.

[Erichermit]

Woot! I was on there! But they spelled my name wrong, it's stonepiloit2..

 

Wow, someone read 167 pages worth of crap.

 

 

 

I really like this guys answers, although he seems way too positive to me.. but that's just my negative side. He does sound like a PR pro though.

 

 

 

It's because supermod Andrew answers them...

 

I know that. It just seems like he's being a bit too honest. Trying to stop people from complaining.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware people were worried about jagex being "too" honest.

[Sy_Accursed]

Woot! I was on there! But they spelled my name wrong, it's stonepiloit2..

 

Wow, someone read 167 pages worth of crap.

 

 

 

I really like this guys answers, although he seems way too positive to me.. but that's just my negative side. He does sound like a PR pro though.

 

 

 

It's because supermod Andrew answers them...

 

I know that. It just seems like he's being a bit too honest. Trying to stop people from complaining.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware people were worried about jagex being "too" honest.

 

 

 

Ah but you see if jagex tells us nothing they are failures

 

 

 

if jagex tells us a little bit in cryptic they arent being honest enough

 

 

 

If they tell us everything in a general article but dont tailor it to specific questions the community throw out they are a failuring and hiding things

 

 

 

If they tell us everything fully and frnakly they are destroying our hopes and dreams and ruining everything.

 

 

 

Basically I mean half the rs population are completely stupid and will always find a reason to whine and moan w/e jagex does.

[Madmanpur3]

Disappointing and short sighted.

 

Real world trading was always about imbalanced trading.

 

Now, you can buy from any GP site a 3rd age item, spirit shield, or other frozen item at trade price.

 

Junk up at 1mil+/hr easy, and get your gold.

 

Sadly the solution is so simple, its ridiculous.

 

Never release rare items again.

 

Too bad they are blind to the fact that they have done just that with 3rd age and spirit shields.

 

You're right about the solution being so simple it's ridiculous, but you're 100% wrong with your proposed solution.

 

 

 

Personally I'm not disappointed that they fail to recognize junk as a problem because how can you be disappointed if that's what you expect? -.-

[Suiku]

Q) Samrulz432 - You have bought a type of pking back called pvp, but many people would like pvp to just be in the wild. you could also have worlds where it is worldwide pking, and a couple with just wild pking?

 

A) I like this idea :) Ill discuss this with the content team in more detail.

 

 

 

Wild-only Pking... mayybeeee...

 

 

 

I'd live on those worlds. I'd SO live on those worlds.

 

 

 

Hope it IS implimented... I'm seeing the old days come back but betterrrr. Okay, besides the whole 'poo for you, you died and didn't get a gravestone, your corpse is free stuff to bystanders' thing which would prolly be there toooooo, buuuuut that just drives the point home that DYING IS DUMB IDEA, JA?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't get your last line but yeah, I would live on a wild-only pking too! Same system, no RWT.

 

 

 

:3

[Sunny Earth]

Both sets of questions answered so far have been really interesting to read. It's great to see certain things such as junk trading from Jagex's perspective.

[Den]

More questions and answers. :

 

 

 

Always nice to read through.

[BBC3]

Ha, brilliant. He's taken a load of stupid questions from stupid people and answered them properly, sure showed those idiots.

 

 

 

very mature?

 

 

 

pkers dont play at all anymore, so they just ask questions to see if they would be interested to play again (if they dont use fansites or have lives etc), how is uninformed stupid?

[Sy_Accursed]

Ha, brilliant. He's taken a load of stupid questions from stupid people and answered them properly, sure showed those idiots.

 

 

 

very mature?

 

 

 

pkers dont play at all anymore, so they just ask questions to see if they would be interested to play again (if they dont use fansites or have lives etc), how is uninformed stupid?

 

 

 

Because basically EVERY question on there has been asked a thousands times over and basically EVERY answer on there can be taken directly from or implied from the RWT development Diary

 

 

 

So anyone who doesn't know those answer is indeed quite stupid in my book atleast.

[DragnFly]

Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked.

 

 

 

I [bleep] knew it. I KNEW that's why no one got rid of junk trading. Well there you have it guys, they're happy with a broken GE system because it allows players to circumvent the trading limits. What I've--and others--have been saying for ages.

 

 

 

Personally I agree with Andrew, and say that I see no problem with it. Sure it makes buying things on the GE abit harder sometimes, but its their items and their choice on what they want to sell them for.

 

 

 

I dont think its really circumventing anything. It takes time to gather junk, which most wont bother with. Infact, they are not earning a single GP more from the junk trades than they would without them, they just merely perceive it like they are.

 

 

 

Junk has value do to its use to players, and/or its store price. Even small items, like tinderboxes and buckets, take time to gather and have value due to their various uses for players.

 

 

 

All these trades accomplish is saving people the time of selling this junk manually for the same amount of coins. These trades essentially say, "In order to buy item X, you must also buy items Y alongside it". You are NOT paying more for the item, merely buying junk with the item.

 

 

 

Really we've already lost substantial trade abilities ever since this whole battle on RWTings started, lets not further hamper them and make person to person trading even worse.

 

 

 

By way, I edited this post to better make my point.

[Kimberly]

Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked.

 

 

 

I [bleep] knew it. I KNEW that's why no one got rid of junk trading. Well there you have it guys, they're happy with a broken GE system because it allows players to circumvent the trading limits. What I've--and others--have been saying for ages.

 

 

 

Personally I agree with Andrew, and say that I see no problem with it. Sure it makes buying things on the GE abit harder sometimes, but its their items and their choice on what they want to sell them for.

 

 

 

I dont think its really circumventing anything. Junk has always had some value, its just now they add it to the trades to make it seem like they are getting more cash, when in actuality, they aren't.

 

 

 

Really we've already lost substantial trade abilities ever since this whole battle on RWTings started, lets not further hamper them and make person to person trading even worse.

 

 

 

You're totally missing the point though.

 

 

 

Junk wouldn't exist if the GE properly reflected supply and demand. Rather than fix the long-broken system, they're going to "let it slide." This is great for people who want to trade freely and have a lot of junk....

 

 

 

HOWEVER!

 

 

 

Junk items aren't the only broken items in the GE. To name a few: third age, animal masks, partyhats, etc. All these "frozen" items that never get fixed.

 

 

 

And since you can't fix one set of items without fixing it all UNLESS YOU DO IT MANUALLY, it's always going to be an issue now and for future rare item releases.

[Sy_Accursed]

Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked.

 

 

 

I [bleep] knew it. I KNEW that's why no one got rid of junk trading. Well there you have it guys, they're happy with a broken GE system because it allows players to circumvent the trading limits. What I've--and others--have been saying for ages.

 

 

 

Personally I agree with Andrew, and say that I see no problem with it. Sure it makes buying things on the GE abit harder sometimes, but its their items and their choice on what they want to sell them for.

 

 

 

I dont think its really circumventing anything. Junk has always had some value, its just now they add it to the trades to make it seem like they are getting more cash, when in actuality, they aren't.

 

 

 

Really we've already lost substantial trade abilities ever since this whole battle on RWTings started, lets not further hamper them and make person to person trading even worse.

 

 

 

You're totally missing the point though.

 

 

 

Junk wouldn't exist if the GE properly reflected supply and demand. Rather than fix the long-broken system, they're going to "let it slide." This is great for people who want to trade freely and have a lot of junk....

 

 

 

HOWEVER!

 

 

 

Junk items aren't the only broken items in the GE. To name a few: third age, animal masks, partyhats, etc. All these "frozen" items that never get fixed.

 

 

 

And since you can't fix one set of items without fixing it all UNLESS YOU DO IT MANUALLY, it's always going to be an issue now and for future rare item releases.

 

 

 

If only junk items were broken junk trading wouldnt exsist.

 

 

 

junk trading exsists due to low end broken items aka the junk and the high end broken items akak the things ppl junk trade for.

[DragnFly]

Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked.

 

 

 

I [bleep] knew it. I KNEW that's why no one got rid of junk trading. Well there you have it guys, they're happy with a broken GE system because it allows players to circumvent the trading limits. What I've--and others--have been saying for ages.

 

 

 

Personally I agree with Andrew, and say that I see no problem with it. Sure it makes buying things on the GE abit harder sometimes, but its their items and their choice on what they want to sell them for.

 

 

 

I dont think its really circumventing anything. Junk has always had some value, its just now they add it to the trades to make it seem like they are getting more cash, when in actuality, they aren't.

 

 

 

Really we've already lost substantial trade abilities ever since this whole battle on RWTings started, lets not further hamper them and make person to person trading even worse.

 

 

 

You're totally missing the point though.

 

 

 

Junk wouldn't exist if the GE properly reflected supply and demand. Rather than fix the long-broken system, they're going to "let it slide." This is great for people who want to trade freely and have a lot of junk....

 

 

 

HOWEVER!

 

 

 

Junk items aren't the only broken items in the GE. To name a few: third age, animal masks, partyhats, etc. All these "frozen" items that never get fixed.

 

 

 

And since you can't fix one set of items without fixing it all UNLESS YOU DO IT MANUALLY, it's always going to be an issue now and for future rare item releases.

 

 

 

Thats because, by my guess anyway, the Grand Exchange sees you charging what is essentially mid price for both the item you are selling, and the junk. Hence it sees the item staying the same value, and not updating the price.

 

 

 

While it is a problem, I dont think further hampering what remains of free trade among players is justified, just to deal with it.

 

 

 

I am uncertain if charging above the trade price in multiple item trades will increase the value of them or not. If it does not, then perhaps the system could be changed so that it adjusts the value of the most expensive item in the trade. Which would allow the price of the item on the Grand Exchange to increase, so that it will eventually self correct.

 

 

 

One problem with the Grand Exchange is it does a relatively lousy job of keeping up with item prices, especially newer ones. Prices are slow to change throughout the system, and thats the reason people tend to turn to junk trading.

 

 

 

You do have to realize though, that no matter what you do to improve the Grand Exchange, it will never be flawless. Any artificial system such as the Grand Exchange that controls the market will never fully keep up with supply and demand the way that a free market can. It does not mean that it should not be tweaked, though.

 

 

 

Newer items are very likely to go up and down in price rapidly for awhile, til they have had time to stablize. The only real solutions to this, short of manually adjusting the prices, is changing the way the GE deals with newly released items.

 

 

 

Maybe for newer items, allow the Grand Exchange to update the prices even more rapidly than it presently does, and allowing a greater trade margin for items that have been released in say a 2 week period or so.

[strilmus]

But I thought animal masks WERE fixed.

 

 

 

After their price got reset to a much higher point, they climbed steadily in the market for a few weeks (since people were still in "overcharging for broken GE prices" mode), and then the bottom fell out on a bunch of them to more accurately reflect the value of the masks.

 

 

 

The more popular ones are still pretty high priced, though.

[Danqazmlp]

All of what he said i already knew the answer too, but it was still an interesting read.