Once a great game. A story/Rant for veteran players.

[All_Is_Great]

I really like your rant it was very well put togeather and i agree with almost everything. I haven't been playing since RS1 but I did start in 2005 so I have been playing for awhile I do remember seeing all those changes happening and alot of them I didn't like, some being no wildy, trade limits and GE. Jagex is slowly killing the social part of this game and is turning it into a game where your just going for the next with no one beside you.

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

[Ren]

Lots of this game changed. Sure, there were more scammers in the past. Yeah, macroers sucked. The bots were rule breakers but I liked them, personally. They added a something in the game that it probably will never have again. Trade limtis and the Grand Exchange induced the fail old-school merchanters (or item-flippers..) into price manipulators (people who invest into an item to raise the price or expect a price rise in the item, then sell before/when it begins crashing to make money). And go figure, even some people can't do that so they resort to a minigame that has a loophole that creates unneccesarily high amounts of GP/COIN that didn't exist before. The game's graphics are going to become s*** soon, you'll see. I'm just hoping Jagex plans ahead further than the average RSer can see, so that we don't expect something REALLY good coming. Maybe that's just my optimistic side speaking, but I do sometimes have faith in Jagex. No matter how lazy they become, how delayed updates are, how CRAPPY updates are, you've always have that little ounce of hope. I'm just waiting for that day to come. Where it's "all-in, take it or leave it" time.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for everyone that read one of the most influential post in this thread (that is, if you agree and choose to stand by what I believe is right..).

 

 

 

~Ren

 

 

 

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/51/450x200gff.png = coolest ex-signature ever, btw.

[yanksrule]

has anyone considered that jagex is made up of humans? humans that make mistakes and do what they feel is best for their game? i always think it's funny that people are always assuming that they want to just take this game that has made them millions of dollars and just drop it from the tallest tower in the world and watch it get destroyed. whether you may realize it or not, the larger population gets the say in how the updates go. i don't want to be the five hundred thousandth person to say this, but the people that played runescape classic, and also played the game a number of years ago, are hugely outnumbered by the new players in the game.

 

 

 

there's also the "if you don't like it, quit" argument. now that i think about it, that statement is becoming more and more valid. as stated before, jagex is human. if you were so disgusted with this game, and so disappointed, you'd quit. but you can't, because something jagex has implemented in their game is having you stay their customer. to me (and probably the same for jagex), if you're playing the game, and it's not what it used to be, but you still like the game enough to keep playing, then they aren't doing that bad.

 

 

 

the same goes for their updates. when bungie releases a game, they make tens of millions of dollars. that gives their game developers some incentive to make a better, more challenging game. jagex doesn't make tens of millions of dollars off of every update. they don't make that much money at all. the money that they make goes from the customer, to jagex, to website maintenance such as webhosters (whatever the name is) such as navasite, and then, finally, to it's employees. yes they rake in a lot of money, but with over 160+ worlds, and the game being in 3 different languages (and counting), they can't use resources they don't have. it my honest opinion, you'd be expecting too much of jagex if you wanted the rwt problem fixed, free trade re-instated, get good updates, have the bugs that come with every update fixed, and do all of the things i mentioned before in this paragraph, then their members would have to be increased to a point that world of warcraft would have to start to take notice to jagex.

[langer]

I really like your rant it was very well put togeather and i agree with almost everything. I haven't been playing since RS1 but I did start in 2005 so I have been playing for awhile I do remember seeing all those changes happening and alot of them I didn't like, some being no wildy, trade limits and GE. Jagex is slowly killing the social part of this game and is turning it into a game where your just going for the next with no one beside you.

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

 

 

 

If you liked having to battle for green dragons or blue dragons against gold farmers from china or seeing some bots who would transfer all his money to some player so he could buy a p-hat or a skill to 99, then it's a matter of opinion. I didn't like that time.

[langer]

Lots of this game changed. Sure, there were more scammers in the past. Yeah, macroers sucked. The bots were rule breakers but I liked them, personally. They added a something in the game that it probably will never have again. Trade limtis and the Grand Exchange induced the fail old-school merchanters (or item-flippers..) into price manipulators (people who invest into an item to raise the price or expect a price rise in the item, then sell before/when it begins crashing to make money). And go figure, even some people can't do that so they resort to a minigame that has a loophole that creates unneccesarily high amounts of GP/COIN that didn't exist before. The game's graphics are going to become s*** soon, you'll see. I'm just hoping Jagex plans ahead further than the average RSer can see, so that we don't expect something REALLY good coming. Maybe that's just my optimistic side speaking, but I do sometimes have faith in Jagex. No matter how lazy they become, how delayed updates are, how CRAPPY updates are, you've always have that little ounce of hope. I'm just waiting for that day to come. Where it's "all-in, take it or leave it" time.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for everyone that read one of the most influential post in this thread (that is, if you agree and choose to stand by what I believe is right..).

 

 

 

~Ren

 

 

 

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/51/450x200gff.png = coolest ex-signature ever, btw.

 

 

 

I read your post, but I have no idea what your intentions or motives are. iu have no idea what minigame brings that much money into the game. I don't know how you can say that the graphics will become (worse?) soon... you have proof of this or you don't like the way they are changing the looks with cartoony stuff?

 

 

 

It's very sad to see such a post from someone who spent so much time gathering facts about Jagex. What made you change your mind so strongly?

[Harakiri]

It's a MMORPG of course it suppose to be social because if it isn't social they might as well just take it off the internet and make you buy a CD for it.

 

 

 

And Adventure Quest is an online MMORPG but because of the fact there is nothing social but PvP that means it should be sold on a disk instead of on the internet where it is easily accessible, easier to update, more open to people who don't pay attention to computer gaming as much, and costs a bit less for production.

 

 

 

Social interaction is not a mandatory thing in an MMORPG, you could still play Runescape without it, but it is something that is a there to help benefit the experience. You can still use the chat box, you can still talk with people and if nobody else is talking then who cares. How can you change the fact that nobody feels like interacting with you. I went to Lumbridge a week or so ago to sit and see what was going on and everyone was talking. There was a conversation on Family Guy, people selling stuff, hell even someone was selling their account. Exactly as it was a couple years ago.

[quelmotz]

I really like your rant it was very well put togeather and i agree with almost everything. I haven't been playing since RS1 but I did start in 2005 so I have been playing for awhile I do remember seeing all those changes happening and alot of them I didn't like, some being no wildy, trade limits and GE. Jagex is slowly killing the social part of this game and is turning it into a game where your just going for the next with no one beside you.

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

 

 

 

All games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's situation was more serious somehow or other. Maybe the UK banks are more strict or something? I don't know.

 

 

 

You've never tried to woodcut/skill seriously before, have you? If you did, you'll definitely have seen those bald lvl 3 men hacking away at trees, stealing all your logs. How is that not annoying, may I ask?

 

 

 

there's also the "if you don't like it, quit" argument. now that i think about it, that statement is becoming more and more valid. as stated before, jagex is human. if you were so disgusted with this game, and so disappointed, you'd quit. but you can't, because something jagex has implemented in their game is having you stay their customer. to me (and probably the same for jagex), if you're playing the game, and it's not what it used to be, but you still like the game enough to keep playing, then they aren't doing that bad.

 

 

 

:thumbup: +1

[All_Is_Great]

[hide=quotesss]

I really like your rant it was very well put togeather and i agree with almost everything. I haven't been playing since RS1 but I did start in 2005 so I have been playing for awhile I do remember seeing all those changes happening and alot of them I didn't like, some being no wildy, trade limits and GE. Jagex is slowly killing the social part of this game and is turning it into a game where your just going for the next with no one beside you.

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

 

 

 

All games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's situation was more serious somehow or other. Maybe the UK banks are more strict or something? I don't know.

 

 

 

You've never tried to woodcut/skill seriously before, have you? If you did, you'll definitely have seen those bald lvl 3 men hacking away at trees, stealing all your logs. How is that not annoying, may I ask?

 

 

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

Of course i know all games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's reason wasn't because of banking problems in the UK. It was something along to lines of retaining their rights.

 

 

 

And, I have tried to woodcut/skill before, and mind you, all of f2p. Before the updates, i was pure f2p, and you must agree f2p had a much more serious problem with autoers than p2p. I have seen all those lvl 3 and 4s with the same name except different numbers hacking away at the same tree or fishing at the same spot, and I have witnessed a yew tree being cut down in less than a second. I got to 74 woodcutting in f2p (and haven't touched the skill for a year+ now) and believe me, it was very painful indeed. Sure, they "steal" all of my logs, but so do other, non autoer people. The autoers used iron/bronze axes, so i dont think they got very many logs.

 

 

 

Now, with the installation of the grand exchange, price manipulation has become REDICULOUSLY easy, and it's a perfect example of how the rich get richer, while the poor-middle classed watch their money decrease in value due to inflation. Which isn't fun and in my opinion, worse than autoers "stealing" all of my logs.

[Ravenkana]

Alas, I am inclined to agree with you. No longer is Runescape in the golden era of Rome but is instead in the fallen era of the Byzantine. Truly, we are in its twilight hour.

[scootch51]

Well Put. I been playing since the start of runescape. The days when Muhaha was the boogie man in the wild. Should have seen this coming. the end of the wilderness. I played Warcraft For awhile it just became level your Char. And fight Bosses. For new and improve weapons or armor.

 

runescape to me now is just a mini version of warcraft. All my freinds are gone the days we voiced on messenger and Pked at the rune rocks. Killed the bots at the green dragons and waited on their keeper to show up. the Joy :D . I see in runescape its not about the fighting and earning . Its about buying. I show up at clan war, and leader of this clan says you need to go buy better armor. BUY I dont buy Nothing i earn it I hope Jagex is happy over all this.

 

Kiddies finally won got their game where they dont lose anything. As a veteran Player I feel i been let down . Good post

[essiw]

oh i got much memories from your post, altough I started when slayer came out (I think january 2005?). The wildy had some huge thrill for me. I remmeber me wearing full steel to lvl 50 combat and then decided smithing was not the best way to get your armour (yeah I smithed it all). Started to buy rune and at 53 I had full rune. I remmeber spending hours of time buying items, or calling bank sale so you could sell your items to earn some cash. People who end up being lured were just dumb people to my oppinion. I hate the ditch, they should remove it. the warnings signs should be that you can disable them at the first time (what? I just did go to duel arena and got a warning? it is a save minigame comon...)

[All_Is_Great]

oh i got much memories from your post, altough I started when slayer came out (I think january 2005?). The wildy had some huge thrill for me. I remmeber me wearing full steel to lvl 50 combat and then decided smithing was not the best way to get your armour (yeah I smithed it all). Started to buy rune and at 53 I had full rune. I remmeber spending hours of time buying items, or calling bank sale so you could sell your items to earn some cash. People who end up being lured were just dumb people to my oppinion. I hate the ditch, they should remove it. the warnings signs should be that you can disable them at the first time (what? I just did go to duel arena and got a warning? it is a save minigame comon...)

 

 

 

I smithed all my armour up until those levels too! \

[quelmotz]

[hide=quotesss]

I really like your rant it was very well put togeather and i agree with almost everything. I haven't been playing since RS1 but I did start in 2005 so I have been playing for awhile I do remember seeing all those changes happening and alot of them I didn't like, some being no wildy, trade limits and GE. Jagex is slowly killing the social part of this game and is turning it into a game where your just going for the next with no one beside you.

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

 

 

 

All games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's situation was more serious somehow or other. Maybe the UK banks are more strict or something? I don't know.

 

 

 

You've never tried to woodcut/skill seriously before, have you? If you did, you'll definitely have seen those bald lvl 3 men hacking away at trees, stealing all your logs. How is that not annoying, may I ask?

 

 

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

Of course i know all games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's reason wasn't because of banking problems in the UK. It was something along to lines of retaining their rights.

 

 

 

And, I have tried to woodcut/skill before, and mind you, all of f2p. Before the updates, i was pure f2p, and you must agree f2p had a much more serious problem with autoers than p2p. I have seen all those lvl 3 and 4s with the same name except different numbers hacking away at the same tree or fishing at the same spot, and I have witnessed a yew tree being cut down in less than a second. I got to 74 woodcutting in f2p (and haven't touched the skill for a year+ now) and believe me, it was very painful indeed. Sure, they "steal" all of my logs, but so do other, non autoer people. The autoers used iron/bronze axes, so i dont think they got very many logs.

 

 

 

Now, with the installation of the grand exchange, price manipulation has become REDICULOUSLY easy, and it's a perfect example of how the rich get richer, while the poor-middle classed watch their money decrease in value due to inflation. Which isn't fun and in my opinion, worse than autoers "stealing" all of my logs.

 

 

 

So would you rather have no RuneScape or a "lower-quality" RuneScape? I don't think RuneScape is becoming worse though.

 

 

 

Look - compare HOW many advantages the Grand Exchange brings about. Convenience, ease in selling and buying, no more need to stand in banks shouting "selling ash 1gp ea!" or whatever.

 

 

 

And how is it the Grand Exchange's fault that people CHOOSE to use it as a tool to manipulate prices of items? Do you think Jagex WANTED people to manipulate prices?

 

 

 

Summary:

 

Honestly, RuneScape isn't what it is now because of Jagex. It's because of the players.

[All_Is_Great]

[hide=quotesss]

 

 

 

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it."

 

 

 

I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them.

 

 

 

I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything.

 

 

 

RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album...

 

 

 

Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem.

 

 

 

That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral.

 

 

 

Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems.

 

 

 

All games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's situation was more serious somehow or other. Maybe the UK banks are more strict or something? I don't know.

 

 

 

You've never tried to woodcut/skill seriously before, have you? If you did, you'll definitely have seen those bald lvl 3 men hacking away at trees, stealing all your logs. How is that not annoying, may I ask?

 

 

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

Of course i know all games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's reason wasn't because of banking problems in the UK. It was something along to lines of retaining their rights.

 

 

 

And, I have tried to woodcut/skill before, and mind you, all of f2p. Before the updates, i was pure f2p, and you must agree f2p had a much more serious problem with autoers than p2p. I have seen all those lvl 3 and 4s with the same name except different numbers hacking away at the same tree or fishing at the same spot, and I have witnessed a yew tree being cut down in less than a second. I got to 74 woodcutting in f2p (and haven't touched the skill for a year+ now) and believe me, it was very painful indeed. Sure, they "steal" all of my logs, but so do other, non autoer people. The autoers used iron/bronze axes, so i dont think they got very many logs.

 

 

 

Now, with the installation of the grand exchange, price manipulation has become REDICULOUSLY easy, and it's a perfect example of how the rich get richer, while the poor-middle classed watch their money decrease in value due to inflation. Which isn't fun and in my opinion, worse than autoers "stealing" all of my logs.

 

 

 

So would you rather have no RuneScape or a "lower-quality" RuneScape? I don't think RuneScape is becoming worse though.

 

 

 

Look - compare HOW many advantages the Grand Exchange brings about. Convenience, ease in selling and buying, no more need to stand in banks shouting "selling ash 1gp ea!" or whatever.

 

 

 

And how is it the Grand Exchange's fault that people CHOOSE to use it as a tool to manipulate prices of items? Do you think Jagex WANTED people to manipulate prices?

 

 

 

Summary:

 

Honestly, RuneScape isn't what it is now because of Jagex. It's because of the players.

 

 

 

How are you so sure that there wouldn't be runescape if Jagex hadn't dramaticly changed everything? And i'm not saying it's the grand exchange's fault, obviously it has no fault and jagex was trying to make things simpler, but right now, price manipulating is WAAAY too easy. Do i think jagex wanted people to manipulate prices? NO, of course not, did i say they did? The grand exchange has many exploitable problems.

 

 

 

So, in the end, it's Jagex's fault for not thinking this through to the end, they should have seen the possibility of this outcome, and now it might be too late to fix it. And your last sentence makes absolutely no sense. Runescape IS what it is because of Jagex, because they are the ones who update it, and before the new ownership, I don't think they ever listened to player's opinions. And even if they did, i don't think anyone came up with the grand exchange, Jagex themselves made it.

 

 

 

Summary: Runescape is what it is now because of Jagex, sure players had something to do with it, but they are only taking what Jagex's idiotic minds are offering them.

 

 

 

One thing I agree is that GE has made the game somewhat easier, though i don't think it's enough to justify the negatives. In w2/ w1 w3 for f2p, i was fine selling my stuff, the only advantage is probably you can do other stuff while you wait for items to buy/sell.

[quelmotz]

 

How are you so sure that there wouldn't be runescape if Jagex hadn't dramaticly changed everything? And i'm not saying it's the grand exchange's fault, obviously it has no fault and jagex was trying to make things simpler, but right now, price manipulating is WAAAY too easy. Do i think jagex wanted people to manipulate prices? NO, of course not, did i say they did? The grand exchange has many exploitable problems.

 

 

 

So, in the end, it's Jagex's fault for not thinking this through to the end, they should have seen the possibility of this outcome, and now it might be too late to fix it. And your last sentence makes absolutely no sense. Runescape IS what it is because of Jagex, because they are the ones who update it, and before the new ownership, I don't think they ever listened to player's opinions. And even if they did, i don't think anyone came up with the grand exchange, Jagex themselves made it.

 

 

 

Summary: Runescape is what it is now because of Jagex, sure players had something to do with it, but they are only taking what Jagex's idiotic minds are offering them.

 

 

 

One thing I agree is that GE has made the game somewhat easier, though i don't think it's enough to justify the negatives. In w2/ w1 w3 for f2p, i was fine selling my stuff, the only advantage is probably you can do other stuff while you wait for items to buy/sell.

 

 

 

Seriously, are you [developmentally delayed]ed or what?

 

 

 

A game is nothing without players. Do you think Jagex doesn't listen to their players? Would they have a game then? Everybody would boycott it because their opinions aren't being listened to.

 

 

 

Jagex made it - for who? The players. Who complained about the boredom of shouting "selling ash 1 gp ea" in banks? Who RWTed? Who lured and scammed? Who insulted and spammed? Who flamed? Who got lost and killed?

 

 

 

Enough examples for you? Jagex caters to the NEEDS and REQUESTS from the players. It might not seem obvious, but it definitely is happening.

 

 

 

Jagex chooses how to fix the problems, but in the first place - who created the problems? Jagex? My foot.

 

 

 

There might still be a RuneScape if Jagex hadn't changed everything - but what a poor state it would be in. Banks would sue Jagex, stop their customers from using their credit cards to pay Jagex, etc. So Jagex would lose a lot of money.

[All_Is_Great]

[hide=to make my post shorter]

 

How are you so sure that there wouldn't be runescape if Jagex hadn't dramaticly changed everything? And i'm not saying it's the grand exchange's fault, obviously it has no fault and jagex was trying to make things simpler, but right now, price manipulating is WAAAY too easy. Do i think jagex wanted people to manipulate prices? NO, of course not, did i say they did? The grand exchange has many exploitable problems.

 

 

 

So, in the end, it's Jagex's fault for not thinking this through to the end, they should have seen the possibility of this outcome, and now it might be too late to fix it. And your last sentence makes absolutely no sense. Runescape IS what it is because of Jagex, because they are the ones who update it, and before the new ownership, I don't think they ever listened to player's opinions. And even if they did, i don't think anyone came up with the grand exchange, Jagex themselves made it.

 

 

 

Summary: Runescape is what it is now because of Jagex, sure players had something to do with it, but they are only taking what Jagex's idiotic minds are offering them.

 

 

 

One thing I agree is that GE has made the game somewhat easier, though i don't think it's enough to justify the negatives. In w2/ w1 w3 for f2p, i was fine selling my stuff, the only advantage is probably you can do other stuff while you wait for items to buy/sell.

 

 

 

Seriously, are you [developmentally delayed] or what?

 

 

 

A game is nothing without players. Do you think Jagex doesn't listen to their players? Would they have a game then? Everybody would boycott it because their opinions aren't being listened to.

 

 

 

Jagex made it - for who? The players. Who complained about the boredom of shouting "selling ash 1 gp ea" in banks? Who RWTed? Who lured and scammed? Who insulted and spammed? Who flamed? Who got lost and killed?

 

 

 

Enough examples for you? Jagex caters to the NEEDS and REQUESTS from the players. It might not seem obvious, but it definitely is happening.

 

 

 

Jagex chooses how to fix the problems, but in the first place - who created the problems? Jagex? My foot.

 

 

 

There might still be a RuneScape if Jagex hadn't changed everything - but what a poor state it would be in. Banks would sue Jagex, stop their customers from using their credit cards to pay Jagex, etc. So Jagex would lose a lot of money.

[/hide]

 

No, I don't think Jagex listened to the players, at least not the old mods, I've been hearing some good stuff about this mod MMG, but that doesn't matter here. As for all your examples, last time I checked, no one REQUESTED for the wilderness to be removed did they? Did anyone REQUEST for staking to be removed? Again, no. Did anyone NEED for these things to go? No! Those are kind of poor "examples", very generalized and it doesn't really help my understanding for your arguement.

 

 

 

Now to go in a little deeper, I'm going to try and argue your "points" one by one.

 

 

 

1. "selling ash 1 gp each", I think this is just an example of saying people had to stand for hours selling their items, and like I already said, I agree with you on how the GE has helped the game in this aspect.

 

2.I'll come back to RWT later, as that is the big problem.

 

3. Insulting/spamming: result was the quick chat, which only use is for proving your actual skill ingame, i mean, who uses quick chat besides muted players/13- year olds?

 

4. Flaming: this has nothing to do with what we are talking about... it's sort of human behaviour online.

 

5. Got lost and killed: honestly, anyone with half a brain and just the smallest amount of common sense could LEARN from their own MISTAKES. Jagex did not need to "fix" this with the ditch. But this also is a small/non - issue.

 

 

 

The big thing is RWT, and to quote you

 

Jagex chooses how to fix the problems, but in the first place - who created the problems? Jagex? My foot.

 

In this case, Jagex did create the problem. They removed the wilderness and staking and that was what started it all. They TRIED to make up for it with pathetic excuses for "pvp" minigames like FOG, SoulWars, etc. Sure, you could again say that it's the RWT's fault, but that brings me to the next thing.

 

 

 

Do you think Jagex doesn't listen to their players? Would they have a game then? Everybody would boycott it because their opinions aren't being listened to.

 

 

 

Since Jagex is set on removing RWT from the game (which I think is a good thing), they ought to have listened to players, right? You'd think removing something that has been a staple of the game would have taken more thought, right? Guess again, the day after they removed the wilderness, riots broke out EVERYWHERE, on the forums/ingame/in real life. Did they listen? Not a single bit, there were plenty of good ideas presented that still kept us with the old pvp system, but no, Jagex continued on with Bounty Hunter. I don't even want to get started on how terribly designed Bounty Hunter was when it was first introduced (all multi combat/ 3 craters). That I think should prove Jagex didn't put the amount of thought needed into the update.

 

 

 

PS. Why am I "[developmentally delayed]"?? And why is everyone using this phrase? I think this is way overused.

[langer]

@ allisgreat

 

 

 

I just have to post something here to put things into perspective...

 

Would you listen to a friend if he kept on giving you bad advices? When the trade limits were removed and the wildy changed (please stop using the expression "removing of the wilderness"), there were lots of angry players giving bad advices to Jagex. And from what I can understand in Jagex view, any advice that could lead to RWT was a bad advice.

 

 

 

I agree that Jagex has been bad with bugs on update day so far and that even though they think they finally have the perfect system, players always seem to find a way to abuse it.

 

 

 

I would like to hear those ideas that would have kept the old style pking and staking without RWT.

[Xaiier]

Though I don't remember RS1 I do remember before the ditch and the GE. Life was simple, you could make money with skills, and combat was more friendly. Now it is a bunch of little kids who pull out their massive awesome weapon and smash you then call you a noob. I didn't mind the wildy, I just stayed clear of it. The grand exchange killed Runescape. Though so helpful, prices got jacked even worse. Materials cost more then the final product now...

 

 

 

Runescape has changed from a smart society where you could have fun into a place where your hand is held and you don't have to think. I see so many players who have no common sense.

 

A quote from ingame.

 

"why dont i get money real easy you should be able to get stuff easily"

 

I nearly died when i saw that. this is runescape, not a kiddie game where you play a silly game for money and everything is relatively free

[langer]

Though I don't remember RS1 I do remember before the ditch and the GE. Life was simple, you could make money with skills, and combat was more friendly. Now it is a bunch of little kids who pull out their massive awesome weapon and smash you then call you a noob. I didn't mind the wildy, I just stayed clear of it. The grand exchange killed Runescape. Though so helpful, prices got jacked even worse. Materials cost more then the final product now...

 

 

 

I agree witht he last sentence. The rest is just a matter of opinion and mine is the total opposite of yours. Life now is simple, I can make money with skills and combat is friendly. About the little kids pulling out massive awesome weapons... I agree the weapons have evolved, thank god I don't have to train with a d long. Either way, it really doesn't matter if it's a 12 years old who killl you and call you noob compared to a 43 years old woman who kill you and call you noob. The grand exchange really made me like RS, no more wasted time logging in world 2 to shout selling rune full helm 25K for an hour. Yes prices can be manipulated, but to me it's just a bump in the road, they always adjust in time. Just don't buy foolishly and wait for the drop.

[Harakiri]

Apparently, not All Is Great 8-)

 

 

 

HAHA! Omali has nothing on me!

[All_Is_Great]

@ allisgreat

 

 

 

I just have to post something here to put things into perspective...

 

Would you listen to a friend if he kept on giving you bad advices? When the trade limits were removed and the wildy changed (please stop using the expression "removing of the wilderness"), there were lots of angry players giving bad advices to Jagex. And from what I can understand in Jagex view, any advice that could lead to RWT was a bad advice.

 

 

 

I agree that Jagex has been bad with bugs on update day so far and that even though they think they finally have the perfect system, players always seem to find a way to abuse it.

 

 

 

I would like to hear those ideas that would have kept the old style pking and staking without RWT.

 

 

 

Could you explain a little more? I'm not quite getting what you're saying by "giving bad advice". What advice are you talking about? Are you saying most people wanted to RWT? Or are you saying they wanted updates to make RWT easier? Please elaborate.

 

 

 

By the way, removing the wilderness is the correct term, because the wilderness referred to a place where people can attack each other, with level differences getting greater as you go north, but after the update, that system (wilderness) was no where to be found. Instead it was just 3 craters of multicombat where clans of 20+ ruled all :roll:. I suppose now you could say "changed wilderness", after the recent updates, but I was talking about that update directly.

[langer]

Could you explain a little more? I'm not quite getting what you're saying by "giving bad advice". What advice are you talking about? Are you saying most people wanted to RWT? Or are you saying they wanted updates to make RWT easier? Please elaborate.

 

 

 

By the way, removing the wilderness is the correct term, because the wilderness referred to a place where people can attack each other, with level differences getting greater as you go north, but after the update, that system (wilderness) was no where to be found. Instead it was just 3 craters of multicombat where clans of 20+ ruled all . I suppose now you could say "changed wilderness", after the recent updates, but I was talking about that update directly.

 

 

 

In the following months after they implemented trade limits and made it so you couldn't pk in the wild, there were lots of players "advising" Jagex to change the wilderness back the way it was without trade limits and with the old loot system. That was bad advice. These people wanted their gameplay back at the cost of having RWT back in the game. I'm not saying they were RWTers, just saying that their demands were considered bad advices from the Jagex point of view and their no RWT stand.

 

From that perspective, not listening to those advices is pretty wise.

 

 

 

It's obvious that they changed the game radically and it looks like they had to do it quickly or else...

 

Bounty hunter was a total failure which is why it is not here anymore. The reason the wilderness was changed is because it was also a failure. No matter how many players liked it prior these updates, the wilderness was a failure for permitting RWT.

[All_Is_Great]

Could you explain a little more? I'm not quite getting what you're saying by "giving bad advice". What advice are you talking about? Are you saying most people wanted to RWT? Or are you saying they wanted updates to make RWT easier? Please elaborate.

 

 

 

By the way, removing the wilderness is the correct term, because the wilderness referred to a place where people can attack each other, with level differences getting greater as you go north, but after the update, that system (wilderness) was no where to be found. Instead it was just 3 craters of multicombat where clans of 20+ ruled all . I suppose now you could say "changed wilderness", after the recent updates, but I was talking about that update directly.

 

 

 

In the following months after they implemented trade limits and made it so you couldn't pk in the wild, there were lots of players "advising" Jagex to change the wilderness back the way it was without trade limits and with the old loot system. That was bad advice. These people wanted their gameplay back at the cost of having RWT back in the game. I'm not saying they were RWTers, just saying that their demands were considered bad advices from the Jagex point of view and their no RWT stand.

 

From that perspective, not listening to those advices is pretty wise.

 

 

 

It's obvious that they changed the game radically and it looks like they had to do it quickly or else...

 

Bounty hunter was a total failure which is why it is not here anymore. The reason the wilderness was changed is because it was also a failure. No matter how many players liked it prior these updates, the wilderness was a failure for permitting RWT.

 

 

 

Well, by other ideas, I didn't mean ideas which said to put the wilderness back exactly the way it was before. I meant ideas that incorporated some limites into the old wilderness to make it harder to RWT, since it was obvious that Jagex wasn't going to bring back the old. Now, I want to give you some examples, but you have to understand that it was almost 2 years ago, and the topics on the RSOF has already been bumped off the 50 pages. Also, you might say, "RSOF, rofl those little immature kiddies", but I must tell you while there were a lot of "we pay to pk, bring back wildy" threads, there were also legit, well thought out threads from the famous members from the clan community. If I can remember correctly, those ideas were somewhat similar to the BH worlds we have today, but two problems:

 

 

 

1. It's taken Jagex a whole year + to change this, surely they could've done better.

 

2. The drop system is still horribly messed up, with hundreds of millions of gp created from 26k/76k'ing.

 

 

 

One last thing, the wilderness was not a failure. I do believe that staking was how most people did RWT, and most of the RWT'ers flooded to the wilderness after staking was removed earlier that year. If Jagex had only thought about this problem more carefully, and didn't come up with the original bounty hunter/ pvp worlds, then maybe it wouldn't have been such a drastic change. Also keep in mind whatever I'm saying about Jagex being careless/stupid, is regarding the Dec 10, 2007 update, and not the "fixes" that followed.

[langer]

I agree that they could have handled their fixes a little better and a little faster. The drop system is not that bad honestly ever since they have put the 76k risk from the killed player. There are many ways to create money in RS, someone that sits in lvl 1 wild gaining EP is "creating" money but at the same time, that smae person could be mining, killing dragons or woodcutting to create GP. I agree that it is not in the spirit of the game and could be tweaka bit more to either lower the value of drops or increase the risk the killed player has to lose.

 

 

 

I will argue one more that, from an anti RWT stand, the wilderness of old was a failure only because it allowed for RWT. The impresson I get from that specific update in 2007 is that they had to act quickly and could not instore a proper update.

[quelmotz]

Honestly, what is your IQ? Or do you have trouble understanding simple sentences?

 

 

 

Let me put it in a VERY VERY basic way. If you can't understand this, get the hell out of here and stop wasting my time.

 

 

 

1. People RWT. RWTers use stolen credit cards to pay for members' accounts.

 

2. Banks threaten to sue Jagex and prevent customers for using credit cards to pay membership fees.

 

3. Jagex HAS to remove all possible ways to RWT to stop this problem.

 

 

 

Who FORCED Jagex to do all this? The players who RWTed.

 

 

 

So? Basic enough for you?

 

 

 

If you can't understand this I really facepalm.

 

 

 

---------------------------

 

 

 

Jagex being careless/stupid? That's totally absurd.

 

 

 

Would you have time to think out a well-thought plan with banks threatening to sue you and preventing people from paying you? You'd have to take immediate action.

 

 

 

And who caused the problem in the first place? Lazy players who can't be bothered to earn their own money in RuneScape. People who are so addicted to an online game they pay for extra benefits in a virtual world.

 

 

 

Please - think before you start spouting nonsense. It'll just cause people to laugh at you.

 

 

 

Apparently, not All Is Great 8-)

 

 

 

HAHA! Omali has nothing on me!

 

 

 

:thumbup: +1

 

 

 

Honestly, his arguments are incoherent, not well-thought out, absurdly stupid and ridiculous.