I'm sure you all agree... SURPRISING ANALYSIS - 4TH LINK

[sparky1_2007]

They couldn't make 26king against the rules. It's a flaw in there system, and they've never banned anyone for taking advantage of something they refuse to change immediately(ie, non-bug system abuse)..

 

 

 

26king is a flaw, and the reason I'm doing it now is so I can get from 90-94 mage to pk. However, everyone seems to think that it spawns 10's of millions an hour. Although sometimes people get lucky(which is somewhat rare)...I ussually get more from a legit pk then 26k.

 

 

 

Here is a pic of about 3 hours of pvp(I got sidetrack with target who refused to dm...so we fought a good 10 rounds before he koed me, and I lost about 1.5m in gear excluding the 260 shark and 30 prayer pots).....

 

 

 

 

I would say this is a little below average, as I usually get around 1.8m in items(and this comes very close)...

 

Anyway, thats about 1.3m in cash that spawned from the other guy losing 150k...I gained 50k of that back..so 1.2m cash brought into the game by myself in a timespan of 3 hours of gameplay and a difference of about 5 hours from start to finish...

 

 

 

I would consider myself the average 26ker, as I don't do it very seriously.

 

 

 

I should also not that in this time I got clawed and lost a warrior ring(200k worth), which can't be used in the stats, as I don't know what that generated in cash for the person who clawed me...

 

 

 

so anyway 1.6m in 3 hours, or 533k an hour. wow, not much of an improvement over green hides(which spawns items dbones and green hides from nothing...so I don't understand the difference between spawning gold from nothing and spawning an item from nothing, just the fact that it spawns is going to affect the price).

 

 

 

anyway, I know I can spawn more gold from alching for three hours than 1.6m

 

 

 

Why the heck would they ban people and make it against the rules when they blatantly posted up on the knowledge base EXACTLY HOW TO 26K???

[Sir_Kurity]

Fishing and woodcutting were ALWAYS obsolete when compared to other gathering skills, and combat.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Fishing and woodcutting were ALWAYS obsolete when compared to other gathering skills, and combat.

 

 

 

People seem to miss the point I tried to make earlier...

 

 

 

Ofcourse you can be very mathmatical and have figured out that, before the PVP rewards update, GWD was the best money-maker out there... Trouble with it was, that since it is both drop-rate and team-mate dependant, you we're not 100% sure about the amount of cash you would get per hour...

 

 

 

Fishing Lobsters and cooking them (especially above certain levels) is at the other end of the spectrum; very reliable source of money considering you can fish them at a steady pace, cook them pretty much without burning, and they sell pretty well too... Problem with this is that it was not much money...

 

 

 

So at one end you have un-reliable but huge amounts of cash, and at the other you have steady reliable but small amounts of cash...

 

 

 

The 26k (or 76k) trick is not in this spectrum... IF I had to compare it to certain other known methods of money making, I would compare it to slaying Hellhounds, but with a 1/10 droprate of a LVL 3 clue scroll...

 

 

 

It is BECAUSE of this unbalance that in my previous examples, players from each section of the economy are abandoning their old methods and start "making money from nothing" (I will explain later why this is bad)... This unbalance is like the scale not only tipping over, but one side already hitting the floor... And we have no idea how heavy the weight on it is yet, untill we start counterbalancing it...

 

 

 

Now,

 

.....

 

 

 

so anyway 1.6m in 3 hours, or 533k an hour. wow, not much of an improvement over green hides(which spawns items dbones and green hides from nothing...so I don't understand the difference between spawning gold from nothing and spawning an item from nothing, just the fact that it spawns is going to affect the price).

 

 

 

anyway, I know I can spawn more gold from alching for three hours than 1.6m

 

 

 

Why this is bad and untrue for several reasons...

 

1st, your method of calculating 1.6m alchage in 3 hours;

 

1k Magic Longbows alch for 1.5m... If you an cut 1k Magic Logs, pick 1k Flax, string it into Bowstrings, and fletch it all together to make 1k Magic Longbows, mine or GOP 1k Pure Essence and craft it into Nature Runes AND alch it all in under 3 hours, I would be extremely impressed...

 

If you do this, then yes, you have created 1.6m out of nothing in 3 hours...

 

 

 

If however (as I suspect you do) you decide to buy the Magic Longbow (u), Nature Runes and Strings, and then alch it, you have not created 1.6m from scratch... About 1.4m has then dissapeared to the people who actually did the work...

 

So congratulations, you got 1.6m, but it cost you 1.4m, meaning you made 200k cash out of thin air, the rest already existed in value as those raw materials...

 

 

 

Now - PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERRENCE - (yes you, n64jive)

 

 

 

2nd; why is there a difference between creating a pile of cash from thin air, or creating items from thin air which you then sell for the same amount of cash? For you there is not, but for the economy as a whole there is... I guess the logic of my earlier example is lost on you (as I suspected)... I painted a picture of how people more and more would switch from their original jobs to doing the 26k trick...

 

The reason this is bad is that supply stops...

 

People still wish to play the game, so to use your examples of green dragons; to level prayer and crafting, people need Dragon Bones and Green Dhide... They will also resort to tricking because their normal methods of aquiring money for these items seems no longer sustainable, causing further inflation which continues to spiral out of control...

 

 

 

I can name some real life examples of why it is bad for people that when a supply of an item stops while people still have plenty of money to actually pay for it... Any food or medicine scarcity comes to mind... Even if people have the money to buy food or medicine, but there simply is not any supply left, bad things WILL happen... They are not directly able to be translated to RuneScape mechanics but what it comes down to is this simple fact;

 

 

 

 

 

Inflation spiraling out of control due to there being too much money and not enough supply is not somethign that seeks its own equilibrium... The economy will not correct itself, and as prices ever increase with only 1 viable method of making enough cash to keep up, the root of the problem continues to be fueled... Eventually, a handful of people will start to return to skilling when they can get 10k for a Shark, and 2k for a Yew Log, but only a bare minimum of people will do this... Infact, only just enough people will do this to meet the bare minimum demand...

 

 

 

What this creates is an ecomomy where rich and poor couldnt be further apart, and considering the situation, making the jump would require a LOT of patience and levelling, unless they too resort to tricking... Unfortunately this means that new players coming to the game see a world where they will never be able to keep up (remember the days when barrows armor seemed unatainable?)... And once again this means even further inflation as less people play the game with more money flowing into it... And eventually even that problem spirals out of control...

 

 

 

I'm all for teachign the new people some patience, it makes getting that wanted item all the more of an achievement to them... But of this continues; they either become part of the problem, quit wanting that item, or quit altogether... We all know where the bulk of new people fit in...

[yuriqiu]

[hide=Go Stormrage!]

Fishing and woodcutting were ALWAYS obsolete when compared to other gathering skills, and combat.

 

 

 

People seem to miss the point I tried to make earlier...

 

 

 

Ofcourse you can be very mathmatical and have figured out that, before the PVP rewards update, GWD was the best money-maker out there... Trouble with it was, that since it is both drop-rate and team-mate dependant, you we're not 100% sure about the amount of cash you would get per hour...

 

 

 

Fishing Lobsters and cooking them (especially above certain levels) is at the other end of the spectrum; very reliable source of money considering you can fish them at a steady pace, cook them pretty much without burning, and they sell pretty well too... Problem with this is that it was not much money...

 

 

 

So at one end you have un-reliable but huge amounts of cash, and at the other you have steady reliable but small amounts of cash...

 

 

 

The 26k (or 76k) trick is not in this spectrum... IF I had to compare it to certain other known methods of money making, I would compare it to slaying Hellhounds, but with a 1/10 droprate of a LVL 3 clue scroll...

 

 

 

It is BECAUSE of this unbalance that in my previous examples, players from each section of the economy are abandoning their old methods and start "making money from nothing" (I will explain later why this is bad)... This unbalance is like the scale not only tipping over, but one side already hitting the floor... And we have no idea how heavy the weight on it is yet, untill we start counterbalancing it...

 

 

 

Now,

 

.....

 

 

 

so anyway 1.6m in 3 hours, or 533k an hour. wow, not much of an improvement over green hides(which spawns items dbones and green hides from nothing...so I don't understand the difference between spawning gold from nothing and spawning an item from nothing, just the fact that it spawns is going to affect the price).

 

 

 

anyway, I know I can spawn more gold from alching for three hours than 1.6m

 

 

 

Why this is bad and untrue for several reasons...

 

1st, your method of calculating 1.6m alchage in 3 hours;

 

1k Magic Longbows alch for 1.5m... If you an cut 1k Magic Logs, pick 1k Flax, string it into Bowstrings, and fletch it all together to make 1k Magic Longbows, mine or GOP 1k Pure Essence and craft it into Nature Runes AND alch it all in under 3 hours, I would be extremely impressed...

 

If you do this, then yes, you have created 1.6m out of nothing in 3 hours...

 

 

 

If however (as I suspect you do) you decide to buy the Magic Longbow (u), Nature Runes and Strings, and then alch it, you have not created 1.6m from scratch... About 1.4m has then dissapeared to the people who actually did the work...

 

So congratulations, you got 1.6m, but it cost you 1.4m, meaning you made 200k cash out of thin air, the rest already existed in value as those raw materials...

 

 

 

Now - PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERRENCE - (yes you, n64jive)

 

 

 

2nd; why is there a difference between creating a pile of cash from thin air, or creating items from thin air which you then sell for the same amount of cash? For you there is not, but for the economy as a whole there is... I guess the logic of my earlier example is lost on you (as I suspected)... I painted a picture of how people more and more would switch from their original jobs to doing the 26k trick...

 

The reason this is bad is that supply stops...

 

People still wish to play the game, so to use your examples of green dragons; to level prayer and crafting, people need Dragon Bones and Green Dhide... They will also resort to tricking because their normal methods of aquiring money for these items seems no longer sustainable, causing further inflation which continues to spiral out of control...

 

 

 

I can name some real life examples of why it is bad for people that when a supply of an item stops while people still have plenty of money to actually pay for it... Any food or medicine scarcity comes to mind... Even if people have the money to buy food or medicine, but there simply is not any supply left, bad things WILL happen... They are not directly able to be translated to RuneScape mechanics but what it comes down to is this simple fact;

 

 

 

 

 

Inflation spiraling out of control due to there being too much money and not enough supply is not somethign that seeks its own equilibrium... The economy will not correct itself, and as prices ever increase with only 1 viable method of making enough cash to keep up, the root of the problem continues to be fueled... Eventually, a handful of people will start to return to skilling when they can get 10k for a Shark, and 2k for a Yew Log, but only a bare minimum of people will do this... Infact, only just enough people will do this to meet the bare minimum demand...

 

 

 

What this creates is an ecomomy where rich and poor couldnt be further apart, and considering the situation, making the jump would require a LOT of patience and levelling, unless they too resort to tricking... Unfortunately this means that new players coming to the game see a world where they will never be able to keep up (remember the days when barrows armor seemed unatainable?)... And once again this means even further inflation as less people play the game with more money flowing into it... And eventually even that problem spirals out of control...

 

 

 

I'm all for teachign the new people some patience, it makes getting that wanted item all the more of an achievement to them... But of this continues; they either become part of the problem, quit wanting that item, or quit altogether... We all know where the bulk of new people fit in...

[/hide]

 

=D> =D> =D>

 

If they don't fix this tricking problem though. I'll laugh when my AGS hits 500m.

[n64jive]

And when it doesn't I'll say I told u so. Stormage, I'm sick of getting treated like I'm ignorant to economics. And in fact your the one who seems ignorant. You talk supply supply supply but you forget about its counterpart, demand.

 

 

 

When the item can be manufactured, if supply goes down, then demand goes up along with the price. With that, it will become more appealing to gather that specific item. So at some point tricking will cause the price of other items to rise where gathering those items will be more profitable which will bring the supply of those items up.

 

 

 

Economies always have a balance. With these updates supply and demand create a sin wave fluctuasting back and fourth until they find an equilibrium. So if people would just adapt to it, eventually it will pan out.

 

 

 

Btw, I typed this on my blackberry, so I'm sorry for any bad formatting as this was difficult in itself.

[Ts_Stormrage]

I've not talked about the supply, I have talked about the lack thereof...

 

 

 

But would you please care to comment how you can manufacture 1.6m worth of alchable stuff, the natures needed AND alch it all in under 3 hours?

 

 

 

So far you keep avoiding the one thing that proves that tricking is by far the better and more reliable money maker...

 

 

 

But you're all up about demand, lets have at it then;

 

When magic logs continue to rise in price because there is a massive lack of supply due to everyone tricking instead of woodcutting; who in their right mind would BUY magic logs when their eventual product alchs at a massive loss for you? Demand goes down too!

 

 

 

Not only does supply go down because tricking is a better money maker... Supply goes down simply because trickign is also a more RELIABLE money maker... When magic logs hit 2k, noone is going to buy them... And therefor, noone is going to WC for them because it is unsure if they will ever be sold...

[Zepheras]

Exactly like what the above poster mentioned. Granted, even if you see an occasional dip in price (due to manipulation, dumping...), it's still easy to tell that most items in RuneScape are on the whole, rising in price. And it's an inevitable rise, because there's a new gold tap in the game, flowing at a pretty crazy rate.

 

 

 

READ:

 

The day when cutting magic logs is better money than 26k tricking will be the day where GP itself depreciates so much that the price of a load of magic logs that a player gathers in one hour SURPASSES the average rate of GP you get in one hour of 26k tricking. And considering that you can't cut that many logs per hour, it gives you an idea of how high the price of each log would be by then. After which it'll move on to the next resource, to the next, to the next, until GP itself is worthless.

[SlayerMalk]

i love 26king@@@@ ive made like 17 mil off of it its free money ill take it its a game and im not that obsessed with it to care about "honor of the econonmy and that stuff"

 

 

 

bottem line its good money

[aerendil]

I am completly behind nightshade... even if i like pvp tricking, it will be the end of our economics...

 

making 10 million in one hour like a friend of mine did is seriously gona crash the ge prices and all...

[swordwarior]

Am i the only one upset in the extreme amount of time Jagex have spent working and reworking pvp content?

 

At this point it should be done and working, not still fixing stupid errors. I'm getting upset seeing less and less updates and i'm having an even harder time believing that it has nothing to do with fixing pvp. It's time they finish fixing it and start working on content for the rest of their players. I have nothing against pvp, but there has been an extreme amount of work into it, while other sit and wait.

 

The 26k trick should be fixed and done, aswell as the manuplation clans fixed, i agree. They affect everyone in game with there effects on prices.

[Sir_Kurity]

A great deal of runescape players PVP....

[Ts_Stormrage]

A great deal of runescape players PVP....

 

 

 

It used to be, but not anymore... RWT is dead, my f®iend

[Sir_Kurity]

Whats RWT being dead have to do with people PVPing?

[Nero]

 

:-w

[jimmy_jim]

^That's great :

 

 

 

I agree that this problem needs to be fixed. I saw someone bragging in a clan chat that on they're level 34 'strength pure' they made 10M in two days from starting out with 100k.

 

 

 

Then they went on to say that they bought 30k (?) nature runes with it for mage.

[Sir_Kurity]

Well they are lieing or lucky.

 

 

 

Low level drops for PVP suck, period.

 

 

 

The amount of times me, and numerous other level 50ish pures have gotten 100 EP, and killed our targets isn't funny, and the most ive heard someone getting is a seren statuette.

[999134]

Well they are lieing or lucky.

 

 

 

Low level drops for PVP suck, period.

 

 

 

The amount of times me, and numerous other level 50ish pures have gotten 100 EP, and killed our targets isn't funny, and the most ive heard someone getting is a seren statuette.

 

mm lower level drops are always awful. Even at 106 f2p i find it hard to get anywhere near the cash a level 115 can.

 

And pking on my level 50 pure is pointless... target at 100% ep i got a sara fork worth 75k

[yuriqiu]

Well at least we all know that they will fix the PvP trick on monday. Assuming they find a good way to fix it. If they do manage to finally get it right after only god knows how long now. We can finally see how much damage this fiasco's actually did to the GE.

[12pure34]

Well at least we all know that they will fix the PvP trick on monday. Assuming they find a good way to fix it. If they do manage to finally get it right after only god knows how long now. We can finally see how much damage this fiasco's actually did to the GE.

 

 

 

They are going to fix this?

 

Wasn't fairy area or ardougne diary the next big thing?

 

 

 

On topic: I have a friend that bots and lets his bots die for his main. Easy tricking for him :S Bots gather wealth, PvP trick the wealth over to main, it isn't 100% but.. come on!! He is making money botting. He's my friend, but.. sickens me. (yes I reported and warned him aswell)

[thestig0]

Whatever Jagex do to the PVP system, it will either have some flaws that players exploit or be made too strict that it will make players quit (like when they introduced BH and Clan Wars). If they can tweak the system to avoid both of these then we can safely say Jagex aren't human.

[Sir_Kurity]

I can only HOPE they don't nerf pvp drops in the process.

[meme79]

i dont see why infaltion is a big deal.. imo i like it, its brining back old rs.. everything is cheap now, not like it used to be (with a few exceptons, because of other updates ex:dbones)

 

 

 

and anyways, jagex is stuck between a rock and a hard place, they cant stop 26king without bringing back rwt

 

How is everything cheap? It's all going up. And it is a big deal since the supply takes time to adjust (longer times for GE to buy) and people who have their money in cash are losing money, since the value of one gp is decreasing. Now people who care about their wealth have to make sure their wealth is invested in items that won't crash, that's not what Runescape should be about.

 

 

 

26k'ing can be fixed without RWT coming back. Whatever happened to PK'ing for fun? It seems like everyone has suddenly got the idea that PK'ing should be profitable or break-even. Back in the "old" days, PK'ers loved what they did even if they lost huge amounts. If you asked any PK'er back then why they PK, they would say for fun. Nowadays we have PK'ers who have whined Jagex into screwing over the economy along with the rest of RuneScape's players. Also drops do not = fun, PK'ers still say that the old wildy was much better than what we have now, even with the negative profit.

 

 

 

They just need to drasticly reduce the chance of a good drop, giving things like food and pots. The potential of a high profit drop doesn't have to go though. Of course, I'm sure someone will/has come up with a better soloution that would stop the water-works coming from the PK'ers, but there's certainly no reason why what I suggested wouldn't work.

 

 

 

 

 

Sgs used to be 80m and stable, zgs used to be 40m and stable, bgs used to be 35m and stable, dfs used to be 22m and stable.. now sgs is 45m, zgs 25m, bgs 18m and dfs 17m.. there cheap.

 

 

 

if they wont give good drops for pkers then all the pkers wont be happy, loot is part of pking..

[Sir_Kurity]

Thats not inflation.

 

 

 

Thats hey look, its after the update so theres not so much hype about godswords anymore!

[Laura]

They couldn't make 26king against the rules. It's a flaw in there system, and they've never banned anyone for taking advantage of something they refuse to change immediately(ie, non-bug system abuse)..

 

 

 

26king is a flaw, and the reason I'm doing it now is so I can get from 90-94 mage to pk. However, everyone seems to think that it spawns 10's of millions an hour. Although sometimes people get lucky(which is somewhat rare)...I ussually get more from a legit pk then 26k.

 

 

 

Here is a pic of about 3 hours of pvp(I got sidetrack with target who refused to dm...so we fought a good 10 rounds before he koed me, and I lost about 1.5m in gear excluding the 260 shark and 30 prayer pots).....

 

 

 

 

I would say this is a little below average, as I usually get around 1.8m in items(and this comes very close)...

 

Anyway, thats about 1.3m in cash that spawned from the other guy losing 150k...I gained 50k of that back..so 1.2m cash brought into the game by myself in a timespan of 3 hours of gameplay and a difference of about 5 hours from start to finish...

 

 

 

I would consider myself the average 26ker, as I don't do it very seriously.

 

 

 

I should also not that in this time I got clawed and lost a warrior ring(200k worth), which can't be used in the stats, as I don't know what that generated in cash for the person who clawed me...

 

 

 

so anyway 1.6m in 3 hours, or 533k an hour. wow, not much of an improvement over green hides(which spawns items dbones and green hides from nothing...so I don't understand the difference between spawning gold from nothing and spawning an item from nothing, just the fact that it spawns is going to affect the price).

 

 

 

anyway, I know I can spawn more gold from alching for three hours than 1.6m

They shouldn't ban people for saying offensive things, either. After all, communication between two or more players is an inherent flaw in their system!

[kdb148]

There's more to it than just inflation. There is the hysteria that is caused by incessant threads about it making it worse than it has to be. You also have people switching from gathering materials to 26king. Fewer and fewer materials are being brought into the game, and it seems obvious to me that at least some of the price increases are also the product of a fundamental change in the supply of many items. There has probably also been a shift in the demand for useful PvP items as well.

 

 

 

The bottom line is, we don't know how much of this is real inflation, and how much is due to other factors. Now granted, it all ties in to the 26k, but take the "hysteria" that has accompanied it - it makes people frantic to buy supplies now that they see themselves needing in the future, before the price goes even higher. This creates a huge [bleep]e in demand for things like bones and logs. And merchants play their part as well, because they will keep buying as prices continue to rise, creating an even larger artificial [bleep]e in demand.

 

 

 

In other words, it is likely that much of the inflation we're seeing isn't real. That's not to say there isn't a problem, but there's more to it than simple inflation by an influx of money.