Abstinence

[obfuscator]

You guys and gals are missing a huge point. You're diminishing the class itself (sex ed.) rather than the teachings of Abstinence. I actually listened during Sex Ed., as it helped me as I was in a sexual relationship at the time. Now, I remember things from Sex Ed., and things from my previous relationship. It's the perfect dictation.

 

What you learned from a teacher, whether parents, religion or school [or any combo] + Your personal experience = Better than anything else you guys can say here.

 

 

 

Abstinence isn't wrong to teach though guys and gals. Saying it is against 'god' or something to that nature is wrong, but saying it is the only 100 percent chance to avoid pregnancy and spread of STI's is okay.

 

 

 

There is only one problem that I would bring up with your last statement. Rape is a very real, very serious threat, and abstinence is not 100% safe. Albeit it being as close as you're going to get to avoid pregnancy and STI's as possible.

 

This logic makes absolutely no sense. Are you going to be on the pill just "in case" you get raped? Are you going to ask the rapist to stop, and put on a condom?

[Giordano]

Stop being so technical. :wall:

 

He isn't, labelling abstinence as the 100% way of avoiding STDs and pregnancy isn't helpful.

 

Yes it is. We are teaching that if you refrain from willingly having sex you wouldn't get those problems. Rape isn't willingly accepted.

[Shinjula]

I take it, then Nick, that you are in favour of teaching abstinence. May I ask if you are in favour of teaching only abstinence, or would you favour, teaching abstinence alongside handing out condoms, the pill and other preventitives?

 

 

 

If the latter, why not teach both?

 

I agree that abstinence is a good idea for teenagers, but a full sex education is also vital.

[Furah]

Stop being so technical. :wall:

 

He isn't, labelling abstinence as the 100% way of avoiding STDs and pregnancy isn't helpful.

 

Yes it is. We are teaching that if you refrain from willingly having sex you wouldn't get those problems. Rape isn't willingly accepted.

 

Yes you still can. Saying "Abstinence means no chances of getting pregnant or getting STDs" means that teenagers will fall into a false sense of security.

[Pirate_Felix]

As it's a part of biology i think you should get it in biology class. just like i did.

[Furah]

As it's a part of biology i think you should get it in biology class. just like i did.

 

I got sex ed in PDH (Personal Development and Health.) Rather fitting as it's all about your body, and how to keep it in good shape. We were taught about the effects of alcohol and drugs, as well as about sex and pregnancy.

[Laura]

Since it was asked earlier...yes, condoms are 98% effective if used correctly, my citation comes from the NHS choices site, so should be pretty reliable - whilst searching I also found that figure in a lot of other places, but the NHS link is probably one most people should feel comfy relying on (NHS is the National Health Service of the UK)

 

 

 

If used correctly, male condoms are 98% effective in preventing pregnancy. Female condoms are thought to be around 95% effective.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Condoms-(male-and-female)/Pages/Introduction.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx

A large percentage of men and women do not use condoms correctly. Typical use of condoms puts condoms at 84% effective against pregnancies. 98% is really just the advertised statistic.

 

Citation needed :)

It's in a previous post on this thread, if you really want it.

 

EDIT:http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/malecontraceptives1.html

 

Ok cool thanks for posting it, cos i think youve read it incorrectly.

 

it says

 

 

 

If you use the male condom, but do not use it perfectly, it is 86% effective.

which is not at all the same thing as

Typical use of condoms puts condoms at 86% effective

 

If you use it incorrectly its only 86% effective, but the proportion of people using it correctly will have a large effect on the overall efficacy, and the page give no figures for how many people use condoms correctly.

 

It's tempting to guess that incorrect usage would possibly be quite high, but then its not exactly rocket science to put a condom on, the only things you can do wrong are put it on inside out, nick it with your finger or take it off too soon. So I couldnt guess at how that would affect the figures.

As the website clearly says, "typical use: 14 women become pregnant," I do not believe that I misinterpreted either statement.

 

 

 

Using that logic, condoms cannot be 95% effective because there are no statistics for those who use them incorrectly. While not what you said nor is it directed at you, it's ignorant to believe that all males or females during a period of heightened arousal will use male or female condom correctly. By nature, the statistic must drop. We can then draw a conclusion that the 95% statistic is an "advertised" statistic.

[IGoddessI]

This is a copy of my last Abstinence post (referring to the pope & condoms rant)

 

 

 

Abstinence to the conservative community is an admirable goal but it's much like the war on drugs, wake up and smell the roses, it's not going to happen. Harm reduction/minimization accepts the fact that std's (much like drugs) will always be a part of the world and so creates safer methods to reduce the harm and numbers involved. Harm reduction/minimization approach has also been successful in reducing the amount of AIDS spread by needles by introducing needle exchange facilities. If you want the source for that, click search and look up one of the 10+ times I've sourced it in drug-use debates.

 

 

 

Here's a study from India about HIV/STD's:

 

 

 

 

An eight-year study released earlier this year by researchers from several universities, including Columbia, found that people who pledge to protect their virginity until marriage are almost as likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) as kids who make no such pledge.

 

 

 

The sad story is that kids who are trying to preserve their technical virginity are, in some cases, engaging in much riskier behavior, such as oral and anal sex, said Peter S. Bearman, a professor at Columbias Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy, and the lead author of the study told the Washington Post. From a public health point of view, an abstinence movement that encourages no vaginal sex may inadvertently encourage other forms of alternative sex that are at higher risk of STDs.

 

 

 

http://livesinfocus.org/aids/2005/10/21 ... s_and_mor/

 

 

 

 

AIDS intervention may have "salutary effects on Black adolescents' risk of HIV infection":

 

 

 

Reductions in HIV risk-associated sexual behaviors among black male adolescents: effects of an AIDS prevention intervention.

 

 

 

J B Jemmott, 3rd, L S Jemmott and G T Fong

 

 

 

Department of Psychology, Princeton University, NJ 08544-1010.

 

 

 

 

 

BACKGROUND. The number of reported cases of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) is increasing disproportionately among Blacks in the United States. The relatively high incidence of sexually transmitted diseases among Black adolescents suggest the need for AIDS prevention programs to reduce their risk of sexually transmitted human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection. METHODS. Black male adolescents (n = 157) were randomly assigned to receive an AIDS risk reduction intervention aimed at increasing AIDS-related knowledge and weakening problematic attitudes toward risky sexual behavior, or to receive a control intervention on career opportunities. RESULTS. The adolescents who received the AIDS intervention subsequently had greater AIDS knowledge, less favorable attitudes toward risky sexual behavior, and lower intentions to engage in such behavior than did those in the control condition. Follow-up data collected 3 months later revealed that the adolescents who had received the AIDS intervention reported fewer occasions of coitus, fewer coital partners, greater use of condoms, and a lower incidence of heterosexual anal intercourse than did the other adolescents. CONCLUSIONS. These results suggest that interventions that increase knowledge about AIDS and change attitudes toward risky sexual behavior may have salutary effects on Black adolescents' risk of HIV infection.

 

 

 

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/3/372

 

 

 

 

 

You'll only be able to access the full journal article on this one if you pay for access/ are a current university student with these research options currently available:

 

 

 

Transforming AIDS prevention to meet women's needs: A focus on developing countries

 

 

 

Abstract

 

 

 

As currently conceived, the global AIDS prevention strategy consists primarily of three interrelated tactics: (1) encouraging people to reduce their number of sexual partners; (2) promoting the widespread use of condoms; and (3) treating concurrent STDs in populations at risk of HIV. This three-pronged attack, however, is inadequate for meeting the protection needs of many of the world's women. Disproportionately poor and with little power to negotiate the terms of sexual encounters, women often cannot avail themselves of these life-saving strategies. Women need both a new commitment to addressing the underlying inequities that heighten their risk, and new technologies that provide them with a means of HIV protection within their personal control. This article makes the case for restructuring AIDS prevention by describing the growing risk of HIV infection faced by women throughout the world, examining the serious limitations of the contemporary AIDS prevention strategy in meeting women's needs, and exploring how new approachesincluding a shift toward a more community organizing approach to AIDS preventioncould help women exert more control over their sexual and reproductive lives.

 

 

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... f4f1bba3e7

 

 

 

 

People often forget that in developing countries women don't have the same rights as here in Australia or other first world countries. They can't just pledge their life to abstinence. Many, many women are used as sex slaves, rape is extremely high, then there is also drug use, education is limited and in particular to women. And although it does occur in first world countries, they don't even come close to Africa. I'm pretty sure I don't need any sources for this paragraph.

 

 

 

Abstinence will not cure AIDS. In an imaginary world where women aren't raped by psychos etc then sure maybe. However, I agree that abstinence can help reduce AIDS. Shock, horror, just like condoms do.

[Pirate_Felix]

You guys and gals are missing a huge point. You're diminishing the class itself (sex ed.) rather than the teachings of Abstinence. I actually listened during Sex Ed., as it helped me as I was in a sexual relationship at the time. Now, I remember things from Sex Ed., and things from my previous relationship. It's the perfect dictation.

 

What you learned from a teacher, whether parents, religion or school [or any combo] + Your personal experience = Better than anything else you guys can say here.

 

 

 

Abstinence isn't wrong to teach though guys and gals. Saying it is against 'god' or something to that nature is wrong, but saying it is the only 100 percent chance to avoid pregnancy and spread of STI's is okay.

 

 

 

There is only one problem that I would bring up with your last statement. Rape is a very real, very serious threat, and abstinence is not 100% safe. Albeit it being as close as you're going to get to avoid pregnancy and STI's as possible.

 

This logic makes absolutely no sense. Are you going to be on the pill just "in case" you get raped? Are you going to ask the rapist to stop, and put on a condom?

 

Most chicks just take the pill because (i think it was something like this) then you get less pain at menstruation

[Racheya]

You guys and gals are missing a huge point. You're diminishing the class itself (sex ed.) rather than the teachings of Abstinence. I actually listened during Sex Ed., as it helped me as I was in a sexual relationship at the time. Now, I remember things from Sex Ed., and things from my previous relationship. It's the perfect dictation.

 

What you learned from a teacher, whether parents, religion or school [or any combo] + Your personal experience = Better than anything else you guys can say here.

 

 

 

Abstinence isn't wrong to teach though guys and gals. Saying it is against 'god' or something to that nature is wrong, but saying it is the only 100 percent chance to avoid pregnancy and spread of STI's is okay.

 

 

 

There is only one problem that I would bring up with your last statement. Rape is a very real, very serious threat, and abstinence is not 100% safe. Albeit it being as close as you're going to get to avoid pregnancy and STI's as possible.

 

This logic makes absolutely no sense. Are you going to be on the pill just "in case" you get raped? Are you going to ask the rapist to stop, and put on a condom?

 

Most chicks just take the pill because (i think it was something like this) then you get less pain at menstruation

 

I don't know personally, but some women do take the pill because it makes periods easier to manage =/

[meb]

How on earth can you use a condom incorrectly?

[Shinjula]

As the website clearly says, "typical use: 14 women become pregnant," I do not believe that I misinterpreted either statement.

I was looking further down the page where they said that number came from, and to me it still a dodgy way of saying it.

 

 

 

However that said I have looked further into it on the net, and that figure does indeed seem to be the correct one.

 

 

 

And incidentally ZOMG, how crap can people be at putting a condom on? lol, as I said before it aint exactly rocket science. I've never had a problem or the slightest difficulty with them in my life, hence my disbelief at the figure.

[Amaranth_GTO]

How on earth can you use a condom incorrectly?

 

That's what I'd like to know :-k

 

 

 

Personally, I think the best way to teach people would be to present both abstinence and sex-ed. What they did at my school was say that abstaining from all sexual activity was the best way to prevent STD's and pregnancy. However, we know that many of you will choose not to be abstinent, in which case you should use protection such as condoms and birth control pills.

[Bauke]

 

 

 

I don't know personally, but some women do take the pill because it makes periods easier to manage =/

 

Yep. My girlfriend says it makes her period more regular. Just take the pill for three weeks, one week off, and repeat. She likes it. And so do I, because condoms are ftl (but babies are even more ftl).

[IGoddessI]

There's many reasons women take the pill.... regulating cycles, controlling menstrual flow, to help prevent pregnancy (is not 100% effective and should not be relied on especially if you're taking medication), to stop cramps, provides females with estrogen and progesterone (good for women with hairy faces lol), skin conditions, endometriosis, you can choose to skip a period when important events come up, reduces the chances of developing ovarian cysts/ovarian cancer (by up to 40%), anemia, pelvic inflammatory disease, ectopic pregnancy, rheumatoid arthritis, umm reduces the chance of womb cancer (by up to 50%), regulates fertility to help women become pregnant, relieves symptoms of PMS, can intensify orgasm. Lots of reasons.

 

 

 

Oh btw - Abstinence is not 100% safe :wall: You can't control rape or if someone decides to stab you with a HIV positive syringe. Perhaps someone who is HIV positive gets blood in your open wound? Herpes can be passed on by cold sores! And don't say you just won't kiss anyone who has a cold sore because you may have been just a wee baby when great Aunt Selma (go the Simpson's) decides to come give you a giant sloppy one and is active on her face. Perhaps you have a cut on your [wagon] and sit on an infested public toilet seat? It's unlikely but still possible (normally they only last a very short time on the toilet seat and somehow they would have to make their way to your urethral or genital tract).

[MirageOfDeath]

Oh btw - Abstinence is not 100% safe :wall: You can't control rape or if someone decides to stab you with a HIV positive syringe.

 

I agree with you, but I think those who say that mean as safe as you can be within your control. I think worded that wrong but hope that made sense.

 

 

 

Perhaps you have a cut on your [wagon] and sit on an infested public toilet seat? It's unlikely but still possible (normally they only last a very short time on the toilet seat and somehow they would have to make their way to your urethral or genital tract).

 

Eek that's not going to help my phobia of public restrooms. :lol:

[gauper_kid]

Oh btw - Abstinence is not 100% safe :wall:

Yeah, but it's pretty damn close.

[Shinjula]

Oh btw - Abstinence is not 100% safe :wall:

Yeah, but it's pretty damn close.

 

That strongly depends on how you look at it.

 

On an individual basis, sure it works great, someone who chooses abstinence for themselves as a precautionary measure will almost certainly have no problems.

 

 

 

The problem comes when using it as an educational plan, if you teach abstinence to young people as a whole, as opposed to teaching condom use it suddenly becomes a whole lot less safe as they will not have chosen it as a path for themselves, as thus as far less likely to use it as a precautionary measure that condoms and so the success rate will go much further down.

[IGoddessI]

Good point ^^

 

 

 

I also urge gauper_kid to look up rape statistics. Oh by the way you may pledge your life to abstinence and then when you do decide to have sex you may give your wife herpes and you'll be wondering how the hell that happened. One of your family members may have innocently kissed you goodnight when they were active or even a family friend. And then when you have children and decide to teach them abstinence your wife may repeat the above steps. I'm sure you'll be saying "Oh darn!, close!"

[gauper_kid]

If you put it like that, you're screwed no matter what you do.

 

Or you could just abstain from kissing as well :lol:

[Skeptical]

Teach us about birth control and disease prevention: no one that I know of honestly believes in abstinence. It's just bnot human nature: we are ready to reproduce, or at least enjoy "it" well before society is ready to allow us to.

[vivimancer]

Obviously Abstinence rings don't really work, (Jessica Simpson lost hers on tour with Ricky Martin lol) So if I did ever have a child I would guarantee their virginity by spending $15 a month for their WoW membership =)

[Furah]

Obviously Abstinence rings don't really work, (Jessica Simpson lost hers on tour with Ricky Martin lol) So if I did ever have a child I would guarantee their virginity by spending $15 a month for their WoW membership =)

 

Get them a Linux system for their 5th birthday.... Then hope that he doesn't meet a nerd chick who is into him. I mean I can't find a nerd chick in my area, let alone one that likes me. -.-

[Jeffwilson99]

I was really only taught the legalities of sex. For instance, my teacher told us that it was illegal in the state of Texas to have sex under the age of sixteen without supervision from a responsible guardian. Needless to say, the latter wasn't true but that's what we were taught.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, imagine asking for parental supervision to have sex, LOL!

 

 

 

In all serious, that must be one of the most commonly broken laws around the world. I know where I live the age of consent is 16, but people cannot be prosecuted if sex is consentual and there is an age gap of less than 2 year between the two.

[1roddad1]

Corrupting children by saying that sex shouldn't happen at all isn't the way to go. When they learn or have sex, they'll think "My life has been a lie".

 

 

 

Though people should be aware of how to use condoms and birth control.