Do you pray?

[Zygimantas]

 

Oh my, it didn't take like for the all-knowing, genius atheists to come in with their news stories :roll:

 

Agnostic. ;)

That is a type of Atheism ;)

[Lenin64]

No, but I do prey.

[Racheya]

No, I used to have to at primary school and stuff but never after that.

 

 

 

I do pray to Google though now and again, when my computer is in dire need of a miracle. I promised Google that I'd pray to it every day if my internet connection would work again. Lo and behold it does! I had to pray for the life of my laptop charger too and it's still hanging on

[Lenticular_J]

Yeah, I just throw a general "Help 'em out" to my friends and family before I go to sleep. I tend to hear "You got it, chief." Yeah, God calls me chief.

 

 

 

Considering only about 20% of off-topic doesn't fanatically hate all religion, you're not gonna get more than people being [wagon] here. Just saying.

[warri0r45]

Praying man lets his daughter die

 

[hide=]

A US jury has found a man guilty of killing his sick 11-year-old daughter by praying for her recovery rather than seeking medical care.

 

 

 

The man, Dale Neumann, told a court in the state of Wisconsin he believed God could heal his daughter.

 

 

 

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.

 

 

 

Neumann's wife, Leilani Neumann, was convicted earlier this year.

 

 

 

The couple, who were both convicted of second-degree reckless homicide, face up to 25 years in prison when they are sentenced in October.

 

 

 

A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal.

 

 

 

'Faith healing'

 

 

 

During the trial, medical experts told the court that Neumann's daughter could have survived if she had received treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

 

 

 

On Thursday Neumann, who is 47 and studied in the past to be a Pentecostal minister, said he thought God would heal his daughter.

 

 

 

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," he said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

 

 

 

He also said he thought his daughter had had flu or a fever, and that he had not realised how ill she was.

 

 

 

Neumann's lawyer said he had been convinced that his "faith healing" was working, and that he had committed no crime.

 

 

 

The prosecution argued that Neumann had minimised his daughter's illness and that he had allowed her to die as a selfish act of faith.

 

 

 

They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink.

 

 

 

Instead, an ambulance was only called once the girl had stopped breathing.

[/hide]

 

That is what praying gets you.

 

 

 

Stories like that make me so sick.. It's disgusting how people like that can feel they're doing the right thing when their kid is dieing in front of them. I don't really mind if people pray for loved ones, but if it's a substitute for medical intervention, then I have a massive problem with it.

[ElkNight]

 

Oh my, it didn't take like for the all-knowing, genius atheists to come in with their news stories :roll:

 

Agnostic. ;)

That is a type of Atheism ;)

 

I could be a theistic agnostic.

[MisterGreen]

Praying man lets his daughter die

 

[hide=]

A US jury has found a man guilty of killing his sick 11-year-old daughter by praying for her recovery rather than seeking medical care.

 

 

 

The man, Dale Neumann, told a court in the state of Wisconsin he believed God could heal his daughter.

 

 

 

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.

 

 

 

Neumann's wife, Leilani Neumann, was convicted earlier this year.

 

 

 

The couple, who were both convicted of second-degree reckless homicide, face up to 25 years in prison when they are sentenced in October.

 

 

 

A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal.

 

 

 

'Faith healing'

 

 

 

During the trial, medical experts told the court that Neumann's daughter could have survived if she had received treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

 

 

 

On Thursday Neumann, who is 47 and studied in the past to be a Pentecostal minister, said he thought God would heal his daughter.

 

 

 

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," he said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

 

 

 

He also said he thought his daughter had had flu or a fever, and that he had not realised how ill she was.

 

 

 

Neumann's lawyer said he had been convinced that his "faith healing" was working, and that he had committed no crime.

 

 

 

The prosecution argued that Neumann had minimised his daughter's illness and that he had allowed her to die as a selfish act of faith.

 

 

 

They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink.

 

 

 

Instead, an ambulance was only called once the girl had stopped breathing.

[/hide]

 

That is what praying gets you.

 

 

 

Stories like that make me so sick.. It's disgusting how people like that can feel they're doing the right thing when their kid is dieing in front of them. I don't really mind if people pray for loved ones, but if it's a substitute for medical intervention, then I have a massive problem with it.

 

 

 

That reminds me of this story-

 

 

 

[hide=Story]"There was a man in an area that was about to be consumed by a massive storm. People were climbing aboard a ship to leave the city, due to the coming storm. A seaman yells to the man, " Hey get on the ship we are leaving", but the man says No thanks, God will save me;" the ship left. After an hour or so, a helicopter arrives to pick up any people left over. The pilot yells to the man," Hey, get on we are leaving," But the man refused and said " No thanks, God will save me."; the helicopter left. After another hour passed by, a motor boat comes along with three people on it, one person yells " Hey, get on we are getting the hell out of here". Yet, the man refused and said " No thanks, God will save me" After the motor boat had left, thirty minutes passed by, the man continued to pray. However, soon the storm came and destroyed the city, and killed the man.. The man then went to heaven and asked God " Why did you not save me? God replied: "I sent you a ship and you did not take it. I sent you a helicopter and you did not get on it. I sent you a motor boat, and you did not climb aboard. You died because you refused to listen to me."[/hide]

 

Moral of the story: God helps those who help themselves. He doesn't necessarily always work in supernatural ways.

 

 

 

As for the point of the thread, Yes I pray. I am a non-denominational Christian, and I try to be open-minded.

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

Praying man lets his daughter die

 

[hide=]

A US jury has found a man guilty of killing his sick 11-year-old daughter by praying for her recovery rather than seeking medical care.

 

 

 

The man, Dale Neumann, told a court in the state of Wisconsin he believed God could heal his daughter.

 

 

 

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.

 

 

 

Neumann's wife, Leilani Neumann, was convicted earlier this year.

 

 

 

The couple, who were both convicted of second-degree reckless homicide, face up to 25 years in prison when they are sentenced in October.

 

 

 

A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal.

 

 

 

'Faith healing'

 

 

 

During the trial, medical experts told the court that Neumann's daughter could have survived if she had received treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

 

 

 

On Thursday Neumann, who is 47 and studied in the past to be a Pentecostal minister, said he thought God would heal his daughter.

 

 

 

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," he said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

 

 

 

He also said he thought his daughter had had flu or a fever, and that he had not realised how ill she was.

 

 

 

Neumann's lawyer said he had been convinced that his "faith healing" was working, and that he had committed no crime.

 

 

 

The prosecution argued that Neumann had minimised his daughter's illness and that he had allowed her to die as a selfish act of faith.

 

 

 

They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink.

 

 

 

Instead, an ambulance was only called once the girl had stopped breathing.

[/hide]

 

That is what praying gets you.

 

 

 

Stories like that make me so sick.. It's disgusting how people like that can feel they're doing the right thing when their kid is dieing in front of them. I don't really mind if people pray for loved ones, but if it's a substitute for medical intervention, then I have a massive problem with it.

 

And the most horrible thing is that stories like these are not rare, they're don't come along every year, they don't come along every month, they come along every week and it seems like every one is more terrible than the last.

 

 

 

Luckily enough i never got into that habit(praying), although i know people(non theists) that still habitually start to pray when they go to bed.

[Zygimantas]

 

Oh my, it didn't take like for the all-knowing, genius atheists to come in with their news stories :roll:

 

Agnostic. ;)

That is a type of Atheism ;)

 

I could be a theistic agnostic.

explain.

[ElkNight]

 

Oh my, it didn't take like for the all-knowing, genius atheists to come in with their news stories :roll:

 

Agnostic. ;)

That is a type of Atheism ;)

 

I could be a theistic agnostic.

explain.

 

Agnostic theism, also known as Spiritual Agnosticism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. Per theism, an agnostic theist believes that the proposition at least one deity exists is true, but, per agnosticism, believes that the existence of gods are unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the god(s) they believe in.

 

From wikipedia.

 

Im not by the way.

[mmmcannibalism]

 

Oh my, it didn't take like for the all-knowing, genius atheists to come in with their news stories :roll:

 

Agnostic. ;)

That is a type of Atheism ;)

 

I could be a theistic agnostic.

explain.

 

 

 

To add

 

 

 

Personally, I think there is probably some kind of god. This is clearly not atheism but is also not theism due to the probably instead of a there is

 

 

 

How is agnosticism a form of atheism anyway?

 

 

 

On topic

 

 

 

I gave up on praying a good while ago; I figure if there is a god he can figure out what needs done without my blabbering. I also became disheartened about the idea after I kept hearing stuff like someone getting through on american idol and going "thank you Jesus". Seriously, if god is helping people win a game show and not helping the starving children I wish to file a complaint.

[i_love_burritos]

What's with all these prayer haters.

 

 

 

What's wrong with praying for someone elses good health.

 

 

 

Or, praying to say "thank you" ?

 

 

 

Or praying to acknowledge something good that has happened to you ?

[Saru Inc]

Disregarding my disbelief in the occult, I find prayer to be either self-centered and futile.

 

 

 

For one, if God is all powerful, all-knowing, and infinitely wise, then why would saying (outloud or not) what you wish for, or are thankful for do? Lets assume you had direct contact with him, do you really think he would alter the course of nature just so you can get your ever-so-important job interview? Isn't is said that what happens is meant to happen?

 

 

 

As for the self-centered argument. There are people dying all around the world from oppresive governments, insufficient medical treatment, poor standards of living, murders, war, etc. So lets say you wish to win your next soccer match, or pray that when you arrive home from school your mother is making your favorite dish. If your prayers are realized, and you attribute the outcome to the fact that you've prayed, then aren't you saying that you are also among some of the most important people in the world? Families pray for rain in drought so their only food source can grow, people pray for peace only to find their house blown up the next day. Although these are extreme examples, it was for the purpose of proving my point.

 

:wall:

[ElkNight]

[hide=]Disregarding my disbelief in the occult, I find prayer to be either self-centered and futile.

 

 

 

For one, if God is all powerful, all-knowing, and infinitely wise, then why would saying (outloud or not) what you wish for, or are thankful for do? Lets assume you had direct contact with him, do you really think he would alter the course of nature just so you can get your ever-so-important job interview? Isn't is said that what happens is meant to happen?

 

 

 

As for the self-centered argument. There are people dying all around the world from oppresive governments, insufficient medical treatment, poor standards of living, murders, war, etc. So lets say you wish to win your next soccer match, or pray that when you arrive home from school your mother is making your favorite dish. If your prayers are realized, and you attribute the outcome to the fact that you've prayed, then aren't you saying that you are also among some of the most important people in the world? Families pray for rain in drought so their only food source can grow, people pray for peace only to find their house blown up the next day. Although these are extreme examples, it was for the purpose of proving my point.[/hide]

 

:wall:

 

What?

[mmmcannibalism]

What's with all these prayer haters.

 

 

 

What's wrong with praying for someone elses good health.

 

 

 

Or, praying to say "thank you" ?

 

 

 

Or praying to acknowledge something good that has happened to you ?

 

 

 

Nothing, what most of us have a problem with is people praying for trivial things that are insignifigant in the grand picture. Its good to be thankful for whatever happens, but its wrong to ask for a winning ticket when people are starving(unless you want to win money for charity of course).

[warri0r45]

What's with all these prayer haters.

 

 

 

What's wrong with praying for someone elses good health.

 

 

 

Or, praying to say "thank you" ?

 

 

 

Or praying to acknowledge something good that has happened to you ?

 

 

 

Not that I really hate prayer (except for the story that's been brought up..), but I'll offer my point of view.

 

 

 

Praying to thank God for something like being healed of a disease often downplays any medical intervention that went on, which is disrepsectful to the doctors that helped you. If I get cancer and reap the rewards of medical science to cure it, I'm going to be thanking people, not God.

 

 

 

Apart from that, there's no real harm done, so long as you don't rely on prayer for something.

 

 

 

Praying man lets his daughter die

 

[hide=]

A US jury has found a man guilty of killing his sick 11-year-old daughter by praying for her recovery rather than seeking medical care.

 

 

 

The man, Dale Neumann, told a court in the state of Wisconsin he believed God could heal his daughter.

 

 

 

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.

 

 

 

Neumann's wife, Leilani Neumann, was convicted earlier this year.

 

 

 

The couple, who were both convicted of second-degree reckless homicide, face up to 25 years in prison when they are sentenced in October.

 

 

 

A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal.

 

 

 

'Faith healing'

 

 

 

During the trial, medical experts told the court that Neumann's daughter could have survived if she had received treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

 

 

 

On Thursday Neumann, who is 47 and studied in the past to be a Pentecostal minister, said he thought God would heal his daughter.

 

 

 

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," he said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

 

 

 

He also said he thought his daughter had had flu or a fever, and that he had not realised how ill she was.

 

 

 

Neumann's lawyer said he had been convinced that his "faith healing" was working, and that he had committed no crime.

 

 

 

The prosecution argued that Neumann had minimised his daughter's illness and that he had allowed her to die as a selfish act of faith.

 

 

 

They said the girl should have been taken to hospital because she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink.

 

 

 

Instead, an ambulance was only called once the girl had stopped breathing.

[/hide]

 

That is what praying gets you.

 

 

 

Stories like that make me so sick.. It's disgusting how people like that can feel they're doing the right thing when their kid is dieing in front of them. I don't really mind if people pray for loved ones, but if it's a substitute for medical intervention, then I have a massive problem with it.

 

 

 

That reminds me of this story-

 

 

 

[hide=Story]"There was a man in an area that was about to be consumed by a massive storm. People were climbing aboard a ship to leave the city, due to the coming storm. A seaman yells to the man, " Hey get on the ship we are leaving", but the man says No thanks, God will save me;" the ship left. After an hour or so, a helicopter arrives to pick up any people left over. The pilot yells to the man," Hey, get on we are leaving," But the man refused and said " No thanks, God will save me."; the helicopter left. After another hour passed by, a motor boat comes along with three people on it, one person yells " Hey, get on we are getting the hell out of here". Yet, the man refused and said " No thanks, God will save me" After the motor boat had left, thirty minutes passed by, the man continued to pray. However, soon the storm came and destroyed the city, and killed the man.. The man then went to heaven and asked God " Why did you not save me? God replied: "I sent you a ship and you did not take it. I sent you a helicopter and you did not get on it. I sent you a motor boat, and you did not climb aboard. You died because you refused to listen to me."[/hide]

 

Moral of the story: God helps those who help themselves. He doesn't necessarily always work in supernatural ways.

 

 

 

As for the point of the thread, Yes I pray. I am a non-denominational Christian, and I try to be open-minded.

 

 

 

Do you believe in free will? That story contradicts it, so I wouldn't be using it to make a point if I were you. As for the old adage "God helps those who help themselves", it really makes God rather redundant, don't you think? If I were to rewrite it, it would simply be "people help themselves". I think we should all take note of that fact and really acknowledge that if we want help, we should rely on ourselves, not a god.

[walka92]

i pray for the day people forget about religion

[Adam007]

I don't know, religious debate aside, if you break it down and really need something in life, prayer can only help. The atheist assumes there is no god, but the agnostic can only hope for the best and pray. I know that's a weird way to look at it, and not how I personally justify prayer (I haven't in awhile, but on occasion do), but many atheists tend to break things down in a logical way like that, so why not go for it if it doesn't hurt and there's a chance it will help?

[walka92]

I don't know, religious debate aside, if you break it down and really need something in life, prayer can only help. The atheist assumes there is no god, but the agnostic can only hope for the best and pray. I know that's a weird way to look at it, and not how I personally justify prayer (I haven't in awhile, but on occasion do), but many atheists tend to break things down in a logical way like that, so why not go for it if it doesn't hurt and there's a chance it will help?

 

that is a fair point; i do see myself as atheist normally, but i have prayed in the past (albiet very rarely), but i have never *relied* on it. i dont know if it helped or not, but it sure didnt hurt. but its not like going to your room everynight and talking to a dude in the sky (who likely has millions praying to him at the same time, wouldnt he get a headache?) is going to do very much

[warri0r45]

I don't know, religious debate aside, if you break it down and really need something in life, prayer can only help. The atheist assumes there is no god, but the agnostic can only hope for the best and pray. I know that's a weird way to look at it, and not how I personally justify prayer (I haven't in awhile, but on occasion do), but many atheists tend to break things down in a logical way like that, so why not go for it if it doesn't hurt and there's a chance it will help?

 

 

 

Because there's no proven chance it will help, outside of a placebo effect. Why not rub beads and wish instead? You'll get pretty much the same result as prayer.

[baalboy5]

Praying is giving hope. Does anyone want to take that away?

 

 

 

Least in my opinion

[Returned3]

This dosen't count at all but...

 

 

 

I do "pray" sometimes when I'm outside and I suddenly get this really bad stomachache and I'm either in the middle of something important or really really far from home. I'll start making promises to do this and that and guarantee that I'll immediately go to the batheroom when I reach home etc.

 

 

 

Most of the time it really works. Other than that I do "prayers" whenever I'm about to get into huge trouble I'll say stuff like "Please don't let me get caught" etc.

 

 

 

Was in a Christian school from 7-12 and they taught me to pray before doing basic actions and stuff. Only when I reached Secondary school did I realize that not everyone were Christians so I stopped praying as I found them troublesome to say the least.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

I normally say prayers every night, and before most solo GWD trips. I really should be praying both morning and night though. My prayers usually follow this format:

 

 

 

Dear Heavenly Father

 

 

 

I thank thee for______ or I'm grateful for ______

 

 

 

I ask thee for______ or please bless me with _______

 

 

 

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

[l0rd]

[hide=]Disregarding my disbelief in the occult, I find prayer to be either self-centered and futile.

 

 

 

For one, if God is all powerful, all-knowing, and infinitely wise, then why would saying (outloud or not) what you wish for, or are thankful for do? Lets assume you had direct contact with him, do you really think he would alter the course of nature just so you can get your ever-so-important job interview? Isn't is said that what happens is meant to happen?

 

 

 

As for the self-centered argument. There are people dying all around the world from oppresive governments, insufficient medical treatment, poor standards of living, murders, war, etc. So lets say you wish to win your next soccer match, or pray that when you arrive home from school your mother is making your favorite dish. If your prayers are realized, and you attribute the outcome to the fact that you've prayed, then aren't you saying that you are also among some of the most important people in the world? Families pray for rain in drought so their only food source can grow, people pray for peace only to find their house blown up the next day. Although these are extreme examples, it was for the purpose of proving my point.[/hide]

 

:wall:

 

Yeah, stop trolling and give me some counterarguments, or at least some real thoughts.

[fastortoise]

I sorta pray, I'm not sure anybody else does what I do and therefore I don't know if there's a word that exists for it.

 

 

 

Basically, whenever I feel like a big challenge is coming up, I ask "angels" to help me. There's an angel for absolutely any possible situation, and they have nothing to do with those god-servant angels... I just stole the name. So let's say my professor slaps down my Final exam on my desk. I don't clap my hands together or even close my eyes - all I do is ask the (lets say, Biology) angels to help me out. Then I think about all the predominant Biologists that made the field what it is (Darwin, Mendel, Dawkins) and personally ask each one of them (the angels) to help me out.

 

 

 

Obviously my atheistic views don't make me believe any of this actually helps me during an exam. However, even IMAGINING these people are actually over my shoulder helping me write the exam gives me extra confidence. Even as I ask these 'angels' to help me, I know that what I'm thinking is balderdash, yet it still helps me. I don't care if people think it's weak minded of me - it settles my brain in certain ways, I call it an outlet to my nervousness since I only really ask for non-existent help when I'm nervous.

 

 

 

The parallel between me asking for my version of angels and religious people praying to God is probably really strong. I think the main difference between me and religious people is that I don't depend upon these 'angels' since I realize I created them with my own mind. I also don't ask the medicine angels to cure my dying uncle because those with most medical knowledge are modern doctors... I ask them to help him out.