12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[Amundogus2]

The shadow forger is so overpowered...

1. 
    
   
2. He starts glowing
   
3. I click behind the pillar
   
4. 4 seconds later I starts moving
   
5. I get hit 800+ and die..
   

 

Not to mention the game lagging every minute because Jagex is too lazy to get decent servers.

 

 

Yeh, i find that boss to be pretty frustrating. Even when I click out on time, lagging deters me from moving, but doesn't deter the shadow forger from using its special,

(which is a guaranteed KO no matter how high your HP is).

 

I've never seen it 1 hit someone from max Hp. Never.

I had a good ole l-o-l when one of my friends died to that special attack and then ran in and died again by getting hit with it immediately, although I think he was combo'd.

Just shows the intellectual level of some dungeoneerers :rolleyes:

Most people would actually prepare for something like that, but noooo =)

[AlexRose]

I was browsing the knowledge base, and found something fairly interesting.

 

At this point, it is worth organising yourself and your fellow raiders into roles, to make sure the equipment is shared equally and that you are well prepared for whatever challenges face you. It is recommened that, in larger parties, that you have at least one ranger, melee warrior and mage, for example, and you may want to make someone a 'tank', healer or skiller. 'Tanking' involves putting yourself in a defensive stance, which will encourage any 'tankable' enemies to prefer fighting you in combat. Most large enemies are 'tankable'.

 

I'm not sure how this works in the actual game, and whether it only applies to the inital "engagement" or any time during the fight, but it may be more efficent in rooms requiring the usage of a protection prayer to have one person attract all the powerful monsters. Their attack would then be blocked on that one person's protection prayer, rather than the the entire groups. Or maybe if one particular person had a huge defense bonus, he could simply tank all the monsters instead.

[mario_sunny]

I was browsing the knowledge base, and found something fairly interesting.

 

At this point, it is worth organising yourself and your fellow raiders into roles, to make sure the equipment is shared equally and that you are well prepared for whatever challenges face you. It is recommened that, in larger parties, that you have at least one ranger, melee warrior and mage, for example, and you may want to make someone a 'tank', healer or skiller. 'Tanking' involves putting yourself in a defensive stance, which will encourage any 'tankable' enemies to prefer fighting you in combat. Most large enemies are 'tankable'.

 

I'm not sure how this works in the actual game, and whether it only applies to the inital "engagement" or any time during the fight, but it may be more efficent in rooms requiring the usage of a protection prayer to have one person attract all the powerful monsters. Their attack would then be blocked on that one person's protection prayer, rather than the the entire groups. Or maybe if one particular person had a huge defense bonus, he could simply tank all the monsters instead.

 

All you do is get one person to go into a room first and that automatically attracts all the monsters. Then he just prays whatever he's getting hit most by, and takes the food drops afterwards to heal himself. Not really what I'd call a 'tank,' since most anyone can effeciently do it even with no armor. All they have to do is pick up a lot of food drops.

 

KB has been wrong about specific stats of items, strategies, specifics, and numerous other things related to dungeoneering. I've just stopped trusting the KB at all when it comes to dungeoneering- it may tell you that there are 350 floors or something like that.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I like the shadowforger. There should be at least one boss to separate the men from the boys, because most of them are pushovers even on 5:5 maps. The last guy is particularly disappointing.

shadow forger is definitely the Jad of the current bosses.

High hitting, but harmless if dealt with properly.

but honestly i've never had trouble with the shadow forger. I've yet to die to him on 5:5

 

it's the straight up smash the bosses face in before you run out of food bosses, like the geomancer, that give me trouble on 5:5.

I barely need to eat @ shadow forger if the team plays well, the same cannot be said of the geomancer, or the bulwark beast.

[Squisher_33]

no bosses are hard now, before the update i had lvl 520+ shadow forgers, now after the no-summon update highest ive seen is 450, making him, and all bosses, much too easy

 

realy want bosses to be back on the old lvl system

[Maximusa]

It devalues what is achievable by creating something thats absurd to reach.

Sorry, but I think this statement itself is absurd.

 

When Jagex makes something easy, players say they are "devaluing". Now they are also doing it by making something hard?

 

Can't quite grasp how something that is harder to attain has less value.

 

I also think the mindset that you have to "do everything" is absurd. This is a game -- the purpose is to have fun, not drive yourself nuts trying to "finish everything". There is no "requirement" anyway here; "end game" just means "the gameplay done by those who have maxed skills or mostly maxed skills". It doesn't mean the idea is to literally end the game.

 

There's no prize at the end you know. Or as a wise man once said: "The point of a journey is not to arrive".

 

Sorry but picking certain things out of a whole post because it would contradict what your commenting on is also absurd to even bother writing a reply to mine.

 

I know its unavoidable on this forum to have a post without something moaning or nagging at it but someone like you who isnt a child should know better.

[Myweponsg00d]

I was browsing the knowledge base, and found something fairly interesting.

 

At this point, it is worth organising yourself and your fellow raiders into roles, to make sure the equipment is shared equally and that you are well prepared for whatever challenges face you. It is recommened that, in larger parties, that you have at least one ranger, melee warrior and mage, for example, and you may want to make someone a 'tank', healer or skiller. 'Tanking' involves putting yourself in a defensive stance, which will encourage any 'tankable' enemies to prefer fighting you in combat. Most large enemies are 'tankable'.

 

I'm not sure how this works in the actual game, and whether it only applies to the inital "engagement" or any time during the fight, but it may be more efficent in rooms requiring the usage of a protection prayer to have one person attract all the powerful monsters. Their attack would then be blocked on that one person's protection prayer, rather than the the entire groups. Or maybe if one particular person had a huge defense bonus, he could simply tank all the monsters instead.

 

Ah wow. Cool. :thumbsup:

[AlexRose]

I was browsing the knowledge base, and found something fairly interesting.

 

At this point, it is worth organising yourself and your fellow raiders into roles, to make sure the equipment is shared equally and that you are well prepared for whatever challenges face you. It is recommened that, in larger parties, that you have at least one ranger, melee warrior and mage, for example, and you may want to make someone a 'tank', healer or skiller. 'Tanking' involves putting yourself in a defensive stance, which will encourage any 'tankable' enemies to prefer fighting you in combat. Most large enemies are 'tankable'.

 

I'm not sure how this works in the actual game, and whether it only applies to the inital "engagement" or any time during the fight, but it may be more efficent in rooms requiring the usage of a protection prayer to have one person attract all the powerful monsters. Their attack would then be blocked on that one person's protection prayer, rather than the the entire groups. Or maybe if one particular person had a huge defense bonus, he could simply tank all the monsters instead.

 

All you do is get one person to go into a room first and that automatically attracts all the monsters. Then he just prays whatever he's getting hit most by, and takes the food drops afterwards to heal himself. Not really what I'd call a 'tank,' since most anyone can effeciently do it even with no armor. All they have to do is pick up a lot of food drops.

 

 

 

The AI in Dungeoneering doesn't work like that. Monsters frequently switch "primary" targets when people enter the room, and don't base their attack decisions based on who is presently attacking them. Defensive stance would supposedly make high-leveled monsters ( most likely including bosses) prioritize on you instead. Again, I have no idea how this actually works or how practical it would be to implement, but it would be worth testing.

 

Off topic, I saw you in World 117 Qeltar, when everyone was summoning Ents for no apparent reason. I tried joining your party, but the Ents sort of killed all party making at that point.

[Dragonlordjl]

no bosses are hard now, before the update i had lvl 520+ shadow forgers, now after the no-summon update highest ive seen is 450, making him, and all bosses, much too easy

 

realy want bosses to be back on the old lvl system

Ive seen two level 520+ Hobgoblin Geomancers since the update. Those bastards hit 500s :ohnoes:

[A0z9]

no bosses are hard now, before the update i had lvl 520+ shadow forgers, now after the no-summon update highest ive seen is 450, making him, and all bosses, much too easy

 

realy want bosses to be back on the old lvl system

Ive seen two level 520+ Hobgoblin Geomancers since the update. Those bastards hit 500s :ohnoes:

Wow! :blink:

[Lep]

no bosses are hard now, before the update i had lvl 520+ shadow forgers, now after the no-summon update highest ive seen is 450, making him, and all bosses, much too easy

 

realy want bosses to be back on the old lvl system

Ive seen two level 520+ Hobgoblin Geomancers since the update. Those bastards hit 500s :ohnoes:

Wow! :blink:

 

Me and a team of 3 130+ fought one of those 520 hobgoblins and ALL of us died. I was using blue crab and moray potatoes and still died even with having a gatestone outside.

[Squisher_33]

no bosses are hard now, before the update i had lvl 520+ shadow forgers, now after the no-summon update highest ive seen is 450, making him, and all bosses, much too easy

 

realy want bosses to be back on the old lvl system

Ive seen two level 520+ Hobgoblin Geomancers since the update. Those bastards hit 500s :ohnoes:

 

before the update some where up to 600+ tho, and trust me a lvl 600 rammernaut or riftsplitter maxs about 800

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I was browsing the knowledge base, and found something fairly interesting.

 

At this point, it is worth organising yourself and your fellow raiders into roles, to make sure the equipment is shared equally and that you are well prepared for whatever challenges face you. It is recommened that, in larger parties, that you have at least one ranger, melee warrior and mage, for example, and you may want to make someone a 'tank', healer or skiller. 'Tanking' involves putting yourself in a defensive stance, which will encourage any 'tankable' enemies to prefer fighting you in combat. Most large enemies are 'tankable'.

 

I'm not sure how this works in the actual game, and whether it only applies to the inital "engagement" or any time during the fight, but it may be more efficent in rooms requiring the usage of a protection prayer to have one person attract all the powerful monsters. Their attack would then be blocked on that one person's protection prayer, rather than the the entire groups. Or maybe if one particular person had a huge defense bonus, he could simply tank all the monsters instead.

 

Thanks Jagex for explaining to me what tanking meant. I had no clue. I mean I've only been hearing about it for 5 years, but since I played Runescape that whole time I had no idea. You guys are totally on the bandwagon now and are doing it nearly as well as any random Korean rpg that has been around for six weeks. Congratulations. :thumbup:

[Lizard_X123]

Thanks Jagex for explaining to me what tanking meant. I had no clue. I mean I've only been hearing about it for 5 years, but since I played Runescape that whole time I had no idea. You guys are totally on the bandwagon now and are doing it nearly as well as any random Korean rpg that has been around for six weeks. Congratulations. :thumbup:

 

Give it a few days, and I assure you, there will be a self-addressed letter of apology in your mailbox from Andrew himself. No, really! He is, I'm sure, very sorry that he and his staff forgot that you were the only player who read the KB. How silly of them, to include information in a Knowledge Base (which, dare I say, is a database of knowledge, be it common or less-so)! Surely, there have been no new players to the RPG scene, much less MMORPGs, who may not be so fluent in gaming lingo as yourself.

 

At what point does it stop being "expressing ones opinion" and simply become "trolling", Lib? Come on now.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Thanks Jagex for explaining to me what tanking meant. I had no clue. I mean I've only been hearing about it for 5 years, but since I played Runescape that whole time I had no idea. You guys are totally on the bandwagon now and are doing it nearly as well as any random Korean rpg that has been around for six weeks. Congratulations. :thumbup:

 

Give it a few days, and I assure you, there will be a self-addressed letter of apology in your mailbox from Andrew himself. No, really! He is, I'm sure, very sorry that he and his staff forgot that you were the only player who read the KB. How silly of them, to include information in a Knowledge Base (which, dare I say, is a database of knowledge, be it common or less-so)! Surely, there have been no new players to the RPG scene, much less MMORPGs, who may not be so fluent in gaming lingo as yourself.

 

At what point does it stop being "expressing ones opinion" and simply become "trolling", Lib? Come on now.

 

When I can find a more specific definition for "trolling" other than: anything that one person says that another person doesn't like or agree with.

 

I was being sarcastic about their simplistic approach. As well as criticizing their crappy team-based activity that lacks any real depth, originality, or use for that matter other than a handful of rewards.

 

If you don't agree with what I said, then I must be just "trolling" again. <_<

[Lizard_X123]

When I can find a more specific definition for "trolling" other than: anything that one person says that another person doesn't like or agree with.

 

I was being sarcastic about their simplistic approach. As well as criticizing their crappy team-based activity that lacks any real depth, originality, or use for that matter other than a handful of rewards.

 

If you don't agree with what I said, then I must be just "trolling" again. <_<

 

1. If your sarcasm was intended to be lighthearted, then it was lost over the internet. If it was the bit about catching up to generic korean rpgs, then sorry, my point remains: you are trolling (see footnote)

2. It is hard to be unique in the MMORPG world today. I'd say RS still has a fairly unique identity. Name a korean RPG. Go ahead, name one. Heck, name ten. Go onto any mainstream MMORPG board and post those names. Will anyone recognize them? No. Try it with RS. Granted, the responses may be mostly negative, but people *know* RS.

3. Face it, RS *is* simplistic (by comparison to class-based MMOs). Everyone has access to the same skillset, and gear. Therefore, within a dungeon, it is reasonable to assume that roles must be defined by the players, and use their own skills accordingly. As resources on each floor are limited, it is wise then to break it down into simple jobs, and delegate resources accordingly. "You mage, you range, you wear armor and shield and have lots of food, and you use big hammer"

4. Dungeoneering is a huge first step for Jagex into *real* team-based activities in RS. Not just minigames, but in terms of content that can be advanced through. Don't think of it as Jagex copying another MMO's instance system, rather, it is Jagex's first venture into the realm of raiding (which, at the basic level, is far from unique in *any* MMO today)

5. We have yet to see Batch 2, or any future Dung. releases. I'm reserving judgment until then (although, personally, I enjoy it plenty already). Also, I'd like to throw out "It's not about the destination, but the journey" (paraphrased, but you'll get the message I hope).

 

Keep in mind that many of the people who play RS are nowhere near as experienced in the MMORPG field as some of us. For them, merely experiencing Daemonheim, having a place in RS to *really* group up with their friends and test their mettle against scaling enemies and challenges, is a very welcome addition.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Well, the raiding aspect is going to be a failure. I don't think that really has a place in this game. Also to move into that field when so many other games do it and do it so much better is just insipid.

 

I have no problem with Runescape being simplistic. My point is they're going to complicate a simple game and that is the bad part.

 

As far as being a first step, I'd put it as the first step towards the edge of a cliff.

[AlexRose]

Well, the raiding aspect is going to be a failure. I don't think that really has a place in this game. Also to move into that field when so many other games do it and do it so much better is just insipid.

 

I have no problem with Runescape being simplistic. My point is they're going to complicate a simple game and that is the bad part.

 

As far as being a first step, I'd put it as the first step towards the edge of a cliff.

 

And what direction do you believe that Jagex should take in order to improve their game, rather than their current path?

[Lizard_X123]

Well, the raiding aspect is going to be a failure. I don't think that really has a place in this game. Also to move into that field when so many other games do it and do it so much better is just insipid.

 

I have no problem with Runescape being simplistic. My point is they're going to complicate a simple game and that is the bad part.

 

As far as being a first step, I'd put it as the first step towards the edge of a cliff.

 

 

If they had taken Corp. Beast, GWD bosses, DKs, Barrows, and any and all other bosses, and moved them into Daemonheim, OR moved them into floored dungeons similar to Daemonheim, and required a Dung. level and team to access them anymore, I would agree with you. Dungeoneering is a skill, albeit much different than the other skills*, and as such, does not have to be completed. Sure, there is content associated with it that you will miss out on if you don't level it, but then, you can't get/use the Inferno Adze if you don't raise your FM level. Similarly, you can't use Extremes/Overloads if you can't afford/can't be bothered to train herblore up that high.

As long as they don't restrict current content, or limit most future content, to Dungeoneering specific zones, I can't see the negatives. If you don't enjoy it, no worries, no one is forcing it down your throat (unless, of course, they make the majority of future content require it). If you do, more power to you.

 

As far as the raiding aspect and its potential for failure, I would have to disagree. As I mentioned before, look at Runescape's player base. How many of them have played WoW (I use WoW only because it is one of today's most successful MMO's), and experienced that style of grouping, where each class plays a role, and certain roles are required? I'll admit, in RS, hybridism is rampant, especially amongst the higher tiers of players. Everyone can do everything, or at least, has the potential to do everything, from one single character. I, personally, like the fact that there is an area of RS where teamwork is required, and more than just "pile on boss, keep yourself alive, (and maybe even) if the boss targets you, run around and kite it until it switches targets". Sure, it's different, but that's why it's in its own area, I think. The core of RuneScape remains unchanged, but for those who fancy some coordinated effort, Dungeoneering has the potential (although right now, admittedly, it is still rushable without any particular "class balance") to offer that to those who seek it.

 

Also, you'll forgive me, I hope, for being confused--you criticize them for having a simplistic approach, but go on to think they are making (or are working towards making) it too complicated? Like I said, I am confused, and would merely like clarification here, rather than trying to call you out on waffling or some such.

 

*To clarify my stance, as your Dungeoneering skill level rises, the content you can access increases. As your (insert typical skill here) level increases, the content you can access increases. In Mobilising Armies, your rank increases, but the content (barring outfits and a few select items) you can access doesn't.

[Hajutze]

I asked like 100 pages ago .. since no one replied .. Am I the only one getting ranarr seeds from dead herbs ?

 

Short story long :

If I get a seed from alive herb the seed is the same as the herb.

If I get a seed from a dead herbs it's always a ranarr seed regardless the herb I planted an hour ago.

[Beloved]

I asked like 100 pages ago .. since no one replied .. Am I the only one getting ranarr seeds from dead herbs ?

 

Short story long :

If I get a seed from alive herb the seed is the same as the herb.

If I get a seed from a dead herbs it's always a ranarr seed regardless the herb I planted an hour ago.

Nice, i don't have that but i wish i had lol. Dead herbs give me random seeds but only 10% of the time.

[Hajutze]

I ment that when I get a seed from a dead herb it's always ranarr (still 10% chance) ... soo it's random and I got lucky .. already 4 times lol. Good to know.

[Amundogus2]

I have an extra drive to get 99 slayer now (currently 95), to take down one of those Soulgazers once they appear in batch 2 =) Or can they be found in batch 1?

 

Does anyone have any clue what it drops? Hexhunter bow?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I have an extra drive to get 99 slayer now (currently 95), to take down one of those Soulgazers once they appear in batch 2 =) Or can they be found in batch 1?

 

Does anyone have any clue what it drops? Hexhunter bow?

i've seen a single soulgazer (it didn't drop anything unique)

it drops the hexhunter bow, but only by elimination. We know what all the other slayer monsters drop, not because i've actually seen a hexhunter.

[UserOnRS]

I have an extra drive to get 99 slayer now (currently 95), to take down one of those Soulgazers once they appear in batch 2 =) Or can they be found in batch 1?

 

Does anyone have any clue what it drops? Hexhunter bow?

i've seen a single soulgazer (it didn't drop anything unique)

it drops the hexhunter bow, but only by elimination. We know what all the other slayer monsters drop, not because i've actually seen a hexhunter.

They could add more slayer monsters with more drops in batch 2, and AFAIK Soulgazers don't exist yet but Edimus do (seen one before).