Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[ghjkl]

You are wrong, they can be compared because they are both weapons. Rapier is better in every situation besides Zil and MAYBE Graardor. I've had both and would say rapier>long at bandos. Performance at zil doesn't matter because you can't solo her using melee anyway. I don't know why this is being argued still, long is useful in a very few situations compared to rapier, and even in those situations, the maul would be a better option. This topic should be renamed rapier vs maul.

[Capt_Davy]

There are several problems with any argument about these two pieces of weaponry. First of far too many people are trying to compare the aspects of two entirely different things such as the taste of a banana to the taste of an apple. The two just don't compare. Now both sides can go back and forth saying "oh this is better" or "nah this ones better" in the end your just running around in circles reading a pointless argument. The second problem is that this argument is far too one sided, most of those who have posted here are the proud owners of a Chaotic Rapier and there are a few who are the proud owners of a Chaotic Longsword, but none as far as I have seen have responded that have acquired both pieces of weaponry.

 

Actually, throughout the entire thread, we have compared the two to each other, doing the same activities, with same stats, etc. That's as straightforward and accurate as a comparison can be.

 

One side cannot say that the other is worse and theirs is better simply because they have not used both. Let me explain, most people I know that own a Chaotic Rapier participate in Player Killing and Slayer with the occasional Bosses, and are not maxed players, thus they prefer speedy hits over a hard hitting weapon. The same can be said the other way around, most people I know that own a Chaotic Longsword are hardcore boss killers and are already maxed so they are accustomed to waiting another half a second for a higher hit. Again comparing the tastes of bananas to the taste of apples, you can't compare them easily unless you own both.

 

Third of all, the GWD boss side of this argument is again one sided, remember that there are FOUR bosses contained within the walls of their frozen confinement not ONE. Three of these bosses can be meleed while the fourth is just out of reach of all melee weapons. Most people tend to solo Graardor simply because he is the easiest and least dangerous of all the bosses, but when comparing items of use one has to remember that there is more than one use for a weapon. Most people say Chaotic rapier against Graardor, however that does not answer for ALL of the other Bosses within Runescape. In my opinion both weapons are pretty even when it comes to Slaying the giant Graardor, I have seen many videos and even tested both weapons myself and I find them equally balanced, however as I stated before Graardor is not the only boss on Runescape.

 

True, but we know that (due to Kril's low def) that rapier beats longsword there, and that due to Zilyana's HIGH def, chaotic longsword is obviously better. And Kree'ara, as you said yourself, cannot be reached by any melee weapon, so the debate is pointless there. So the only "grey area" is bandos boss, which is why we reference it so much. And true, there are other bosses. I brought up TDs, miths, and other brought up DKs, etc

 

Tormented demons, Kril, and Zil are all examples of majorly killed bosses in Runescape, mostly because of their drops of high value. In my experience I have seen Chaotic Longsword used more often at Tormented Demons and Zil, simply because that is were high hits from slash are required. Zil is weak to slash attacks which is why The Godswords are the most useful weapon there, and at Tormented demons you only have to deal 300-310 Damage before the Demon changes its prayer and with or without void it is very common for a higher level player to easily deal the 300-310 damage within the first attack after switching weapons so the Chaotic Longsword takes the bone there but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Rapier cannot be used at either, it merely states that the Longsword is preferred there because of its slash and high hit capabilities.

 

You're right, but to be perfectly honest, I would rather take a 300, then a 230 with rapier, then switch, rather than a 330 with chaotic long before switching (seriously, its such a letdown how cls really doesn't hit noticibly higher than rapier) .And also, seeing as how TD's don't exactly have high defense, the accuracy bonuses between rapier and long matter even less. But seeing as nobody switches instantly, there's always some slight delay between demon's prayer-switching and your attack, I suppose its moot between CR and CLS.

 

Last but not least I say that there are just far too many unaccounted variables between one player and another for either of these weapons to reign supreme. Overloads, Curses, Armor Bonus's and Skill levels and other random variables hidden within the various coding of Runescape itself.

 

You're 100% correct there, which is why we're making most of these "better or worse" judgements assuming maxed melee, extremes, and turmoil. Take a look at my first post on this thread at page 15, and the 2 responses after, the picture does change a bit with varying stats, but we can still reasonably gauge which would be better suited to that person.

 

So in the end I hope that you all have learned that comparing the taste of Bananas to the taste of Apples cannot happen, in the end it all comes down to preference and what one player wants to do over another, the choice is the players own in the end. I believe that neither of these weapons reign supreme over the other but mere have strengths over the other's and balance each other out instead of there being one supreme weapon.

 

Personally I tent to do more bosses and stay away from Player Killing and I am already maxed and am the very proud owner of a Slayer cape having reach the level of 99 in slayer, so I have no need for a fast hitting weapon for occupations such as slaying man and creature alike. So the Chaotic Longsword would be the best bet for me would it not? Truthfully I only got Rapier because I love the slayer skill and do train it here and there regardless of my 99 status and I have to say I do prefer it over any other while slaying. I have used both of them and honestly I hardly notice a difference really, a kill is a kill to me and thats the end of it.

 

Glad to hear you've tried both, and that there's little difference while slaying. But try both at say, mithril dragons? Tormented demons? Graardor, Kril, and Zilyana? Dagannoth Kings? Frost dragons if you can? Casual, fun pking, such as at duel arena or clan wars? Try all of that with differing gear, potions, and prayers? That's where the picture becomes a bit more muddied, and we're trying to pick it apart here.

[ghjkl]

Just ran this program that I quickly wrote to compare long and rapier at tds.

[hide=program]

#include <iostream>

#include <ctime>

#include <cstdlib>

 

using namespace std;

 

int main()

{

srand(time(NULL));

int longhitcount=0;

int longtotaldamage=0;

int rapierhitcount=0;

int rapiertotaldamage=0;

for (int i=0; i<10000; i++)

{

int damage=0;

for(;;)

{

damage += (rand() % 650);

//650 is longsword max in void and defender

damage += 10;

longhitcount++;

if (damage > 310)

{

longtotaldamage += damage;

break;

}

}

}

 

for (int i=0; i<10000; i++)

{

int damage=0;

for(;;)

{

damage += (rand() % 595);

//595 is rapier max

damage += 10;

rapierhitcount++;

if (damage > 310)

{

rapiertotaldamage += damage;

break;

}

}

}

cout << longhitcount << endl;

cout << longtotaldamage << endl;

cout << rapierhitcount << endl;

cout << rapiertotaldamage << endl;

 

return 0;

}

[/hide]

Sorry for no annotations and horrible format, but I wanted to settle this stupid debate quickly. I don't get how people always say at tds you need high slow hits without anything backing them up.

From running the program, I found out the average hits a longsword needs to hit to break 310 damage is 1.5762, meaning it would take on average 4.7286 seconds.

The rapier will take 1.6543 hits to break 310 damage on average, which would mean 3.97 seconds.

The long would average around 528 damage when it breaks the range pray, while the rapier would average 506 damage. Using the longsword, you are taking 3/4 of a second longer just to deal on average 20 or so more damage to a td when it is using range pray, you must really be slow at ranging if you need to do that.

[iRed]

Just ran this program that I quickly wrote to compare long and rapier at tds.

[hide=program]

#include <iostream>

#include <ctime>

#include <cstdlib>

 

using namespace std;

 

int main()

{

srand(time(NULL));

int longhitcount=0;

int longtotaldamage=0;

int rapierhitcount=0;

int rapiertotaldamage=0;

for (int i=0; i<10000; i++)

{

int damage=0;

for(;;)

{

damage += (rand() % 650);

//650 is longsword max in void and defender

damage += 10;

longhitcount++;

if (damage > 310)

{

longtotaldamage += damage;

break;

}

}

}

 

for (int i=0; i<10000; i++)

{

int damage=0;

for(;;)

{

damage += (rand() % 595);

//595 is rapier max

damage += 10;

rapierhitcount++;

if (damage > 310)

{

rapiertotaldamage += damage;

break;

}

}

}

cout << longhitcount << endl;

cout << longtotaldamage << endl;

cout << rapierhitcount << endl;

cout << rapiertotaldamage << endl;

 

return 0;

}

[/hide]

Sorry for no annotations and horrible format, but I wanted to settle this stupid debate quickly. I don't get how people always say at tds you need high slow hits without anything backing them up.

From running the program, I found out the average hits a longsword needs to hit to break 310 damage is 1.5762, meaning it would take on average 4.7286 seconds.

The rapier will take 1.6543 hits to break 310 damage on average, which would mean 3.97 seconds.

The long would average around 528 damage when it breaks the range pray, while the rapier would average 506 damage. Using the longsword, you are taking 3/4 of a second longer just to deal on average 20 or so more damage to a td when it is using range pray, you must really be slow at ranging if you need to do that.

 

Not conclusive, your not factoring in an accurate accuracy formula

[ghjkl]

The test doesn't assume accuracy at all, because TDS have rarely any defense. If anything, rapier will hit more often than the long because from what everyone tells me, and from my experience, stab is a much more accurate option vs slash on a TD.

[iRed]

The test doesn't assume accuracy at all, because TDS have rarely any defense. If anything, rapier will hit more often than the long because from what everyone tells me, and from my experience, stab is a much more accurate option vs slash on a TD.

 

Could be true but it's all just rumor now. Still gives some of an idea I guess though, but still not totally conclusive.

[ghjkl]

Btw, just for reference, the max hit with rune bolts, void, and extreme ranging pots is around 400. The average hit would be 200. The average dps not factoring accuracy is around 68. You would have to hit less than 43% of the time for that 22 damage in .75 extra seconds with a longsword using range for long>rapier, and from my experience at TDs, without a steel titan, range hits around 60% of the time.

[Quasar]

But you're also more likely to see the long hit through the prayer in one, lower, hit. For example, the long might hit a 312 and break the prayer, with a rapier hitting a 280 and a 245.

[Capt_Davy]

But you're also more likely to see the long hit through the prayer in one, lower, hit. For example, the long might hit a 312 and break the prayer, with a rapier hitting a 280 and a 245.

 

But that would mean that rapier is better, because (assuming you don't have steel titan, which is reasonable, most people, even at maxed melee, do not have steel titans). It would be better because, looking at rapier's speed, average hit, and accuracy, it would out-hit rune crossbow at tormented demons too, so 2 hits with rapier, then switch for one hit with rune crossbow would be better than 1 hit with long, then switch for 2 hits with rune crossbow.

[Atiaz]

Rapier pride :)

[Capt_Davy]

Rapier pride :)

 

yupppp :) gotta say though, CLS isn't as bad as it's made out to be. It's just a little worse when you're already so accurate with 95-99 attack + extremes + turmoil. To be honest, at 95 attack, 99 str, and with extremes and piety, I have a feeling it would be pretty close between the two, only for rapier to start consistently winning at better stats/pots/prayers.

 

Just saying, CLS is awesome, but rapier is just a little bit better. And you don't want to waste anything when it's 2m exp's worth of tokens, no siree :shame:

[TheAncient]

The test doesn't assume accuracy at all, because TDS have rarely any defense. If anything, rapier will hit more often than the long because from what everyone tells me, and from my experience, stab is a much more accurate option vs slash on a TD.

 

Based on my observations, no. Rapier misses a noticeable amount of the time. Plus switches with a 6Speed are just too hectic compared to a 4Speed/5Speed

 

CLS and Maul are better for TD's.

[ghjkl]

If you have steel titan, like you, there is no argument, use rapier. With a titan, taking down their melee prayer is faster than taking down their range prayer.

[Capt_Davy]

If you have steel titan, like you, there is no argument, use rapier. With a titan, taking down their melee prayer is faster than taking down their range prayer.

 

obviously. and without a steel titan, it goes back to stats/pots/prayers, which we covered. I'm not entirely sure, but isn't rapier better than long at mithril dragons as well? That's the only cloud of uncertaincy I have really.

[ghjkl]

It's better at every place besides sara, bandos, and tds (the last 2 are debatable based on stats and stuff). Being better at sara is basically useless, because you can't solo it meleeing anyway.

[Aiel]

I really dont see why theres a debate here

 

at dks, rapier is the best.

at bandos, rapier~=longsword

at zammy, rapier

at sara, you cant solo with melee.

at arma, you cant solo with melee.

at TDs, it depends on your stats.

for pking, maul or rapier depending on your stats

for training, rapier>whip>clong

 

so basically clong is good at team sara and possibley TDs. I really dont see why people would even consider it.

[Capt_Davy]

It's better at every place besides sara, bandos, and tds (the last 2 are debatable based on stats and stuff). Being better at sara is basically useless, because you can't solo it meleeing anyway.

 

Actually, you can, and its not that hard. Only thing is, you NEED full statius, minus the warhammer, in order to tank zilyana's melee like a pro.

 

link to vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjFSK9yWUQ

 

of course, it could definitely be improved with divine + cls.

 

EDIT: I completely forgot, some people do team her with zamorak godsword, and it works fairly well actually. And i could only see this method being enhanced with cls + rune defender for non-spec hits, for faster and cheaper kills.

 

Even so, that one, single spot where it really shine doesn't justify the 200k token cost, compared to chaotic rapier.

[Quasar]

Actually, you can solo 15+ sara with cls+divine+barrows top+veracs bottom+vhelm and yak. Ovl/turm ofc but since divine is required I'm not sure whether to take sara into account.

[Capt_Davy]

Actually, you can solo 15+ sara with cls+divine+barrows top+veracs bottom+vhelm and yak. Ovl/turm ofc but since divine is required I'm not sure whether to take sara into account.

 

From what you're saying, looks like either full statius armor and dfs is needed, or barrows tank gear and divine is needed. Either way, that doesn't sound too bad. But soloing her with the barrows/divine setup, isn't it still worse moneymaking than soloing graardor? (Just asking, I mean graardor's packed as hell but zilyana...you son't see her packed with solo'ers)

 

EDIT: never mind, i just realized, with only one hand free, I guess whip would fail, so cls is kind of required...and cls isn't exactly commonplace yet.

[ghjkl]

Graardor is bad money anyway. Between finding worlds (since half of them has someone with a chaotic weapon in them anyway), kc, and slow spawns, its just generally fail.

[Capt_Davy]

Graardor is bad money anyway. Between finding worlds (since half of them has someone with a chaotic weapon in them anyway), kc, and slow spawns, its just generally fail.

 

This. 100% on spot. Tbh, im kind of surprised that like, half of the worlds have someone with a chaotic weapon fighting Graardor already....Well that's progress, bandos gwd is now harder than ever to find an open world to kill.

[stonewall337]

Graardor is bad money anyway. Between finding worlds (since half of them has someone with a chaotic weapon in them anyway), kc, and slow spawns, its just generally fail.

Only reason I did it was because I wanted to get a drop, and now I can say I soloed a full GS. (Hilt+shards.) DKS is still better cash, as are TDS.

[JacTise69]

 

Just imagine a world where people only care about efficiency and don't care about looks. What would the world look like?

 

 

China.

 

If the world researched more about efficiency, it would be a kinder more charitable place.

 

On the contrary the world would be a terrible place. As soon as you were too old to be efficient a younger more efficient person would take your place and you my friend would be euthanized. Or to heck with you getting too old, you could just get a terminal disease, the result would be the same.

 

And because none of my post was on topic you have my apologies. I was bored while eating breakfast and like to browse this thread and laugh at all the people still arguing that the CLS is better than the CR. The ONLY reason to buy a CLS is if you are basing your purchase 100% on looks, if you care even 1% about efficiency (which in my experience every rs player does, they just hate admitting that they're way of doing things is inefficient because they're also too full of pride to ever admit they're wrong.) then you should get a CR.

 

Screw the rules I have money.

[Zaaps1]

 

Just imagine a world where people only care about efficiency and don't care about looks. What would the world look like?

 

 

China.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hot+chinese+girls

 

UNSPAM: But how many people honestly can say they have the requirements for solo sara?

[BeNiceOk]

As far as Sara teams go, Veracs >= CLS >= Rapier = Godsword.

 

She is very weak to crush, and special included, Veracs hits very accurately. A team of Veracs WILL beat a team of godswords almost every time. Coupled with claws (easy since flail and claws are 2h) it makes for quite a lethal combo. I know this from experience because if you have a Verac team, you will have no problem taking a world.

 

That being said, a group of us do LS & FFA Sara from time to time (all 138) and some have used CLS, some Rapier, and Veracs. CLS wins when you get lucky and hit 600's, since it has such a high damage output, but Veracs is much more consistent with winning. Rapier has a nice speed, but lacks the attack bonus to do alot of consistent high damage. Rapier is much like the CLS in that a few lucky hits can win you the kill, however the damage is not that consistent.

 

Maul I have yet to see myself, however I would think it would be super accurate on her if flails can hit consistently. The question is more if the lack of speed can account for the damage being dealt.

 

On a Sara solo I could see the maul as the most useful weapon of the chaotic. This being the fact you can hit, run away and eat, hit, run away and eat, etc.. without losing attack cycles, since the attack speed of the maul is so slow. I have yet to see this however and cant really voucher for it until someone has tried it.