ghjkl Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I love how no one does any research whatsoever and just go with CLS being better. Here's an example of mine the other day from when I got "crashed" at Bandos. Me in chaotic rapier, soul wars cape, dhide top, glory, verac skirt, rune defender, extremes and turmoil and enhanced excalibur. A level 138 and 137 both come in (which aren't team either :unsure: ) and even though they are in chaotic longswords, bandos, firecape, dragonfireshield/divine shield, fury, turmoil and both using overloads and armadyl godsword/dragon claw specs, I was occasionally able to outkill them. Logically, I shouldn't outkill them AT ALL. If I was in the same gear as them... their CLS wouldn't stand a chance against rapier. At bandos anyway. Here's a picture of it, I took it because I thought it was pretty funny I was outkilling sometimes. I'm bottom right. I think it's kind of hard to say which Chaotic weapon is 'most worth buying', they are all good, save the crossbow. I'd still go for Rapier first, speed is everything non-boss, unless you plan on halfkilling your way to riches. Personally I got the maul, which is slow as hell but still effective (Hey, I PvP) My list; Maul <> Rapier > Arcane Stream > Staff > Longsword > CrossbowYou are using defender, they are using shields, gf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecakoto Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Here's a thought for all of you: With the Dungeoneering update looming, what if the 80+ Dungeons had bosses that drop Chaotic weapons? Or some sort of Chaotic Weapon-esk type of thing? It will null the point of Tokens somewhat, but seeing as the Rings will take tokens to upgrade, (from what I've gathered) it could be possible. The challenge of a mistake is not to avoid it. The challenge of a mistake is dealing with the outcome. Proud of who I am and what I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjkl Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Then I would rage at jagex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I do DKS a lot, I don't dungeoneer a lot. I have the tokens for an arcane stream, as well as enough motivation to just get 70 real quick (couple levels off). Would you say I should just get an arcane stream when I'm 70? Or hold out for a chaotic without getting anything else first? my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjkl Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Arcane is more useful at dking than rapier, but get rapier next if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I do DKS a lot, I don't dungeoneer a lot. I have the tokens for an arcane stream, as well as enough motivation to just get 70 real quick (couple levels off). Would you say I should just get an arcane stream when I'm 70? Or hold out for a chaotic without getting anything else first? I'd say get the arcane and then keep saving for a rapier. That's what I'm doing. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumondskull6 Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 At first I wanted the rapier, because it has better DPS for slaying, and generally anything that's not a boss, and because I fence, lol. Then I started to wonder...Does any account ONLY slay or ONLY boss hunt? At some point, you're gonna be doing both. You're not going to "never slay again" or "never boss hunt again". So shouldn't you want the weapon that can perform both tasks?The Rapier slays like a pro, a whip on steroids. The CLS cuts through bosses defense like nothing.The Rapier can't hit bosses as often as the CLS can, it's just not accurate enough. The CLS can hit just as well on low level monsters as the Rapier, it's just slower. The CLS is better dps on slayer monsters than a whip, yes? I'd rather have the CLS that can slay better than the whip, which is fast enough as it is, AND take out bosses like there nothing. Whereas if I chose the Rapier, I could slay even faster than the CLS's already increased performance over the whip, but I couldn't boss hunt as well as I could if I were using a whip/CLS/GS. Maybe I'm just speaking out of my ass, I don't have either, and wont for a while. But, that's my POV atm. I still don't really know for sure if the CLS is better, I just changed my POV, as I probably will a hundred times before I actually get either. Couldn't boss hunt as well as if you were using a whip? WHAT?!?!?! Chaotic Rapier clearly out performs whips at bosses. I've crashed lvl 138s with whips at bandos GWD using my rapier. I'm lvl 134 with maxed melees and I can crash KBD ls teams of 4-5 lvl 130s with whips/zammy spears. Rapier is much better than whip at bosses. As for Rapier vs. CLS at bosses, I wouldn't know, because everytime I log into a world where someone has a CLS at KBD, they hop.... :rolleyes: Bandos is weak to slash, not stab, so I'm going to assume you either had a defender, and they didn't, or you didn't crash enough kills to get an accurate sample, that or you clawed half of his HP before switching to the Rapier. Also, the KBD is EXTREMELY weak to stab, it's a dragon, and the rapier itself is FAR better than a Zamorakian spear, add on a defender, and you'd easily be able to crash multiple people with a weapon that uses stab, on a weak-to-stab monster. The people with CLS (I'll assume this has happened less than 2 times) hop because you're both going to hit nearly every single time, but the Rapier has a higher DPS due to hitting faster. So unless I see some actual tests performed, no, the CR doesn't out perform the whip, considering most monsters have a weakness to slash, not stab. I don't own claws, so no, I didn't claw Bandos to half hp right away, and I was using obby shield while they were using either defenders or divines. As for KBD, why would you assume it happened less than 2 times? That seems kind of random, and it's happened 4 times btw. @Jard: What are you talking about? How does you having 99 slayer in any way affect what I've done? :wall:Becuase 99 slayer is epic. I HIGHLY doubt that you, using a Rapier + obby shield could beat players with Whip + defender at bandos. It doesn't seem random, it's probably only happened to you once, so you assume it will happen every time. ;)But my point still stand, YES the Rapier is going to scare people with CLS away at KBD because it's got a higher dps on "low defense monsters" and the KBD is a "low defense monster" since you're using stab. Oh yeah, you got me there, I'm just some idiot who got one kill and assumes it happens every time... <_< No, I've crashed atleast 5 lvl 138s that were using whips, got atleast 4/5ths the kills, and eventually they hopped. You need to stop assuming so much, it makes you look like an ass. :wink:And you're wink face makes you look like an arrogant douchebag, but I didn't point it out until you called me an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerchantInTheDark Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 It'll take ALOT of dungeoneering to get both, but if I ever decide to level it I'll probably go for both. Just from the looks standpoint, I'd probably want the rapier first. Guide - How To Prepare For (And profit From) Free Trade & the Return of the Wilderness2.17B Total Wealth ~ The Original Grand Exchange Merchant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meb Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 It'll take ALOT of dungeoneering to get both, but if I ever decide to level it I'll probably go for both. Just from the looks standpoint, I'd probably want the rapier first.After the off-hand toothpick (defender) now the main-hand toothpick. [bleep] yea. Retired 2146 overall - 136 combat - 6 skillcapes Plus I think the whole teenage girl thing will end soon (hopefully), because my girlfriend is absolutely in love with him(she is 18), and im beginning to feel threatened by his [Justin Bieber] dashing looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackeagle4 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'll be getting a CLS first, and a Maul after that. CLS = I do a lot off boss hunting, so high defence monster that require a higher-than-average accuracy. Maul = Td's maybe, Dabbling in Bounty worlds, and just sheer fun in safe PvP, and some PvM scenarios. If i ever get a Rapier, it will be ONLY used for Slayer, and at the moment I'm more than happy using a Whip for that, as i prefer not to use degrading items for it. (i don't care how slow it degrades either) A lot of people are failing to miss the point in these weapons (have fun, be better than all others), and are trying to get an average out of a random number. Sure, the 'Theoretical' DPS of a rapier may be higher, but as it has been said, it is better for low defence monsters, such as slayer. The % increase in efficiency over using a whip is minimal, not enough to spend the 30+ hours getting a rapier (why not spend those 30 hours slaying with a whip?) and for metal dragon tasks, IMO nothing beats Zamorakian spear + super antifire + extremes. (spears and halberd seem to be more accurate than swords/whip against large creatures). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjkl Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Longsword never beats out both the rapier and the maul. Rapier is only worse than longsword at bandos and sara, and is better at every other boss. It is much better than longsword at both dks and tds, the best sources of income. Longsword is generally bad at pking because it allows your opponent to eat twice between hits whereas rapier only allows him to eat once. If you ignore the numbers and pretend it's all about fun, then I guess your idea of fun is using the inferior weapon as a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonewall337 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'll be getting a CLS first, and a Maul after that. CLS = I do a lot off boss hunting, so high defence monster that require a higher-than-average accuracy. Maul = Td's maybe, Dabbling in Bounty worlds, and just sheer fun in safe PvP, and some PvM scenarios. If i ever get a Rapier, it will be ONLY used for Slayer, and at the moment I'm more than happy using a Whip for that, as i prefer not to use degrading items for it. (i don't care how slow it degrades either) A lot of people are failing to miss the point in these weapons (have fun, be better than all others), and are trying to get an average out of a random number. Sure, the 'Theoretical' DPS of a rapier may be higher, but as it has been said, it is better for low defence monsters, such as slayer. The % increase in efficiency over using a whip is minimal, not enough to spend the 30+ hours getting a rapier (why not spend those 30 hours slaying with a whip?) and for metal dragon tasks, IMO nothing beats Zamorakian spear + super antifire + extremes. (spears and halberd seem to be more accurate than swords/whip against large creatures). Except z spear isn't always better against irons/bronze. From my tests, I was killing faster with whip+defender. And I'm with games. I already rip graador apart with whip+divine. With a weapon with higher str and offense, I can't see rapier being worse. Since I'd also use it at tds (Where Whip>GS) and I prefer whip to GS pking, I'd defiantly get the rapier first. There is no arguement, rapier is better the majority of the time. Long is either used for fun, or for specialized situations. [hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackeagle4 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Longsword never beats out both the rapier and the maul. Rapier is only worse than longsword at bandos and sara, and is better at every other boss. It is much better than longsword at both dks and tds, the best sources of income. Longsword is generally bad at pking because it allows your opponent to eat twice between hits whereas rapier only allows him to eat once. If you ignore the numbers and pretend it's all about fun, then I guess your idea of fun is using the inferior weapon as a challenge. This is true, but in PvP you need a lot more accuracy, especially when both players are maxed with turmoil (although i have only recently gotten turmoil so haven't tested it as much). I personally think the significantly higher accuracy will come into play (mostly in rune/barrows fights, not hybrid fights). My opinion is backed up by looking at the maul, which is clearly the best for PvP. It has higher accuracy and strength bonus than both the Longsword and Rapier, yet is significantly slower.. so, looking at the longsword, sure he can eat twice between my hits, but with the higher accuracy i have a better change of 'comboing' high hits, and hitting 2 500+ or even 2 400+ is twice the damage that they have healed (and is still more than shark-brewing)Using a rapier in the same situation may see you doing much the same but faster, but having less accuracy means the chances of this happening are much lower. I'll be getting a CLS first, and a Maul after that. CLS = I do a lot off boss hunting, so high defence monster that require a higher-than-average accuracy. Maul = Td's maybe, Dabbling in Bounty worlds, and just sheer fun in safe PvP, and some PvM scenarios. If i ever get a Rapier, it will be ONLY used for Slayer, and at the moment I'm more than happy using a Whip for that, as i prefer not to use degrading items for it. (i don't care how slow it degrades either) A lot of people are failing to miss the point in these weapons (have fun, be better than all others), and are trying to get an average out of a random number. Sure, the 'Theoretical' DPS of a rapier may be higher, but as it has been said, it is better for low defence monsters, such as slayer. The % increase in efficiency over using a whip is minimal, not enough to spend the 30+ hours getting a rapier (why not spend those 30 hours slaying with a whip?) and for metal dragon tasks, IMO nothing beats Zamorakian spear + super antifire + extremes. (spears and halberd seem to be more accurate than swords/whip against large creatures). Except z spear isn't always better against irons/bronze. From my tests, I was killing faster with whip+defender. And I'm with games. I already rip graador apart with whip+divine. With a weapon with higher str and offense, I can't see rapier being worse. Since I'd also use it at tds (Where Whip>GS) and I prefer whip to GS pking, I'd defiantly get the rapier first. There is no arguement, rapier is better the majority of the time. Long is either used for fun, or for specialized situations. Against the dragons where you using turmoil/piety or not? Because i don't and generally find irons/steels to be faster with a spear (i haven't killed a bronze in years) Of course Rapier wont be worse than the whip for Graar, it is superior in every way, but i would rather sacrifice a small amount of speed for a higher hit-rate/damage. And for TD's i think having any of the three melee chaotic weapons will be fine, their defence is little to none even against a whip (which i use), although I would be leaning more towards the maul (or longsword with defender) because even with a whip it only takes 1-2 hits to do the required 310 damage (if not more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjkl Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 At tds, you if you can switch perfectly, the weapon with the highest dps is the best. For Graardor, even though long is better than rapier, its only better by a bit, while rapier smokes it in every other area. For pking, use maul if you like gs, use rapier if you like whip, there's really no space for longsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 What about at zilyana? best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits. Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers, 5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand LongswordsROTS Shields: 12 Seismics: 16Ascension Crossbows: 6 Spider Legs: 10Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatleaf Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Rapier and defender is absolutely amazing at dragons, and will be at any future dragons released. I look forward to destroying addy and rune dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirIzenhime Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 What about at zilyana? Maul, you need all the accuracy you can get when at Zilyana. Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher ^Golvellius must be so proud^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howbadisbad Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Wow these people ingame just jump on the bandwagon and automatically think cls is better. :wall: Hypocrite. You tell others to be nice then attempt to murder people. Nice going, you just failed life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsyeater Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I wish I could sell my cls for like 100k tokens. I'd buy a rapier. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaaps1 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Now, if I were only to use it for boss hunting and occasional PvP, which would be better, Rapier or Maul? ~It's Super Effective! (The Zaaps Blog)~My YouTube Channel, where you get to watch me go around and make a fool out of myself and all comp capersGuides:~Yeah I wrote them once~Suggestions:~Yeah I made those once~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly_Wizard Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Rapier and defender is absolutely amazing at dragons, and will be at any future dragons released. I look forward to destroying addy and rune dragons. And I totally hope aforementioned dragons have ridiculously high melee defense for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackeagle4 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Wow these people ingame just jump on the bandwagon and automatically think cls is better. :wall: Wow these people on forums just jump on the bandwagon and automatically thin the rapier is the best thing in game :wall: The weapons are very situational, similar to having a sniper rifle and a shotgun. Rapier is the shotgun, great damage, very reliable, but somewhat limited (little KO potential) and a little inaccurate compared to the others. Maul is the sniper rifle, Slow, High damage, Extremely accurate, it has a rather high KO potential, but lacks DPS for the smaller tasks. So where does that eave the Longsword? It's the Assault Rifle, a mixture of the two, More accurate than the rapier, and a better KO potential. but the slight decrease in speed means less DPS When something is released that has low Slash defence (like dragons have low Stab) the longsword will dominate. Also, I thin the reason most people get the longsword, is because they would prefer an all-rounder, over something more specialised. Some days you need high accuracy (Sara/Bandos/PvP) and other days you need a decent DPS (everything else). Yes that only leaves a small amount of places where the longsword excels, but this isn't saying it's bad for the other things.It will still beat out a whip anywhere, even though it is slightly slower, So for the Solo boss-hunter, depending on how often you do it, having a CLS may be beneficial. Hence my decision of getting a CLS first. tl;dr they're all good weapons, but none of the weapons are better than the others in ALL situations, choose according to your personal needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedman Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Your arguments are flawed. All-round may sound nice first, but not when you think about it. Longsword isn't the best in anything but perhaps bandos/sara, and even there it is very questionable. Longsword doesn't beat whip "anywhere". For slayer for instance, it's about the same, and you would be stupid to waste recharge costs on using it, when whip is as good. A rapier has higher ko potential than longsword, because you can only eat once between rapier hits, and twice between longsword hits. That leaves longsword being good for places where you really really need accuracy, and it happens to be that maul is even better than longsword at those place. Conclusion: longsword is near useless if you have both maul and rapier. Okay, that's 400k tokens in stead of 200k, but I personally prefer to get something that's the best in it's category (rapier/maul), than a half baked hybrid weapon. Yes, I will need 200k more tokens for the maul, but IMO that's the perfect motivation to train dungeoneering. You say no weapon is better in ALL the situations. While this is true, the CLS is best in (virtually) NO situation, while both rapier and maul (rapier more than maul IMO) have quite big niches where they excell. A Guide to Chinning in Ape atoll: up to 325kxp/h! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testingsomestuff123 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 So, if I did a lot of bandos/safe pvp rapier would be the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugia_Lvl138 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Rapier and defender is absolutely amazing at dragons, and will be at any future dragons released. I look forward to destroying addy and rune dragons. And I totally hope aforementioned dragons have ridiculously high melee defense for this reason. I have a CLS, so I would blast through their high Melee Def. 4x Phat owner: Blue, Green, 2x Purple 3100+ GWD bosses soloed.Solo GWD Drops:5 Bandos Plates, 4 Bandos Boots, 3 Bandos Hilts, 2 Arma Helms, Arma Skirt, Arma Plate, 3 Arma Hilts, 4 Zammy Spears, Steam Staff, 15 Sara Swords, 6 Sara Hilts, 29 Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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