Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[Zaaps1]

I can't see it being too effective though, unless they're weak to stab? GS would give higher bonuses and that doesn't work out too well.

 

Using turmoil and overloads with void, Bedman claims to three-hit them pretty often. You should read the post, it's pretty interesting.

 

Sorry, where is this?

[Obtaurian]

I can't see it being too effective though, unless they're weak to stab? GS would give higher bonuses and that doesn't work out too well.

 

Using turmoil and overloads with void, Bedman claims to three-hit them pretty often. You should read the post, it's pretty interesting.

 

Sorry, where is this?

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/250660-big-barrows-analysis/page__st__40

 

Second to last post on page 2. There's a lot of really good information on that thread about barrows in general, too.

[Zaaps1]

Most excellent, thanks :)

[Zaaps1]

Bedman did not post second to last on page 2.

[Obtaurian]

Bedman did not post second to last on page 2.

 

Oh, I have my settings such that I see 40 posts per page, lol. Let me just quote the post for you. I'll edit in a sec.

 

 

Sorry to bump up this old topic, but I think I pretty much found the best set up there is (from everything I tried). I can do consistent chests under 5 min this way. (did 8 so far, and only one was over).

 

Here is my invo and what I'm wearing:

 

 

As you can see, a lot of ppots. This is because you will turmoil + deflect EVERY brother on the surface. Ardy cloak is to boost my stab att and give some prayer bonus. Ring is dragonstone (e) for stab bonus. You can use Onyx if you wanna risk it. An important part of the set up is the rapier. I'm not sure how well a whip will perform, nor a godsword. A CLS or maul will probably own too.

 

Now, using prayer makes everything VERY straightforward and fun :-).

 

Sip 3 doses of prayer (I mostly do 2 and a 3rd one if I see I need it, which is nearly always). Make sure you have quick curses on deflect melee and turmoil. Sip overload, use quick curse, and start pounding. You 3 hit brothers quite often. The sequence of the brothers doesn't matter at all anymore, because you will pray on all of them. I start out with karil or ahrim mostly, so my spec bar can restore for ahrim/karil (so kill karil, do all melee brothers, kill ahrim, or the other way around). I used dds cause I temporarily sold my claws, but actually I'm very happy with it. 2 Claw specs are often overkill, while with a dds you can dose the things more (use 3 dds specs for instance).

 

I mostly tank the brothers I get in the tunnel. When they really start hitting me, I sip a pray pot though, and use turmoil + deflect. In the tunnels, I only kill 2-4 monsters, basically whenever I see a blood worm or small rat in my way.

 

All in all I use 3 doses of prayer, one dose of overload and 2-3 doses of spec restore per chest. Hard to put a number on food usage, but it's really low. Basically it's just what monsters hit on me in tunnels, and if some tunnel brother gets lucky. I value overloads and spec restores at zero gp (because I got 99 herblore by it (lifetime supply), and it was one of the cheapest routes at that time), so it only costs me around 8k a chest.

 

Last thing I should add is that I haven't used the above inventory yet. The inventory shown above is a tweak from my first try out run. This try out run was with 2 overloads, more brews (5) and the same amount of ppots. I ended up with 3 brews and 3 pray pots left, so I decided to toss in more overloads and spec restores. It will probably need some small tweaks, but I think a 12 chest set up is possible.

 

So that's it: A method that gets you runs under 5 min, requires no annoying autocast/equipment switches, and is just plain fun to use (if you get in some nice hits :-)).

[Zaaps1]

Alright, thanks! Looks promising.

 

[hide=EDIT: The secret is out]Bedman doesn't really listen to 2pac[/hide]

[xpx]

Well with the new dungeoneering update i'd say every cls fanboys just got a major kick in the groin- rapier far outshines cls at frost dragons which is a better moneymaker than any bosshunting around, only place where a cls might have been a bit better than the rapier before the update. As before the update, i could chuckle at the guys who cared about the looks of their weapons, i can now laugh freely seeing them kill frosts with zamorakian spears.

 

Also, i can understand people buying a cls or the maul for that matter, i just don't get people trying to prove that the cls is the better weapon in any relevant situation when infact, it's barely as good, and much worse overall.

 

Any particular reason you seem to hold such a grudge against those who use the CLS.

You act like it's the hands down worst weapon around, but lets face it, it's the most versatile. The raper is best a low def monster kill, while the Maul is better suited at high defence/weak to crush killing and PVP. The CLS is in the middle, often being the second best weapon to use at nearly any given boss.

 

You seem to act like every CLS owner needs have their brain checked, and you try very hard to point that out in many many posts you've made in this thread.

As i said, i don't hold anything against people buying a cls, do it, it's your time and money that's being wasted, but PLEASE do not come to the forums and lie about how good it is so other people would make the same mistake. Rapier is the all purpose weapon for high levels, maul is high accuracy ko weapon for pkers and high defence and cls is the middle child, often left unnoticed- second best- as you said. Second best might sound good to you or for anyone else, but it makes little difference if it's second best or second worst as you can only use one at a time, and a weapon that barely beats a combo of ZS/whip and costs 50 hours of time and 90k an hour to maintain is just not worth it. Sure, cls is the best weapon if you aren't maxed, don't have extremes and turmoil and want to solo or duo bandos, but for most people, this is not the case and is useful for a very limited amount of people- and when those people finally reach maxed combat they will be left with a second tier weapon costing way too much to maintain.

 

This thread is about which of the weapons is better, and realistically, i haven't seen any real reasons apart from being low leveled and skilled to buy a cls, only subjective opinions about how good it looks, how high it hits and how cool it is, and while these might be criteria relevant to buying clothes(not the high hitting, ofcource), they don't seem too convincing while you are looking to buy a weapon in an online game...

[Capt_Davy]

After reading all this and watching quite a few videos, I agree, for general-purpose use and most bosshunting, and pvp, chaotic rapier is just flat out the best.

 

But....Just about every comparison was with maxed melee and overloads and turmoil. So, since like everyone else here, i'm deciding which is best for me, and unfortunately, I don't have maxed melee (my stats are still quite high, I'll have 99 str, 93 or 94 attack, 90 or 91 def) and I certainly won't have overloads (No, and I seriously doubt I'll get extremes. Perhaps super antifires but that's to be seen). I also am going to stick with piety for a very long time so...With all of these factors in question, to me, that changes the picture a bit.

 

So at 93 attack, 99 str, super sets, and piety, which would be better for miths, kbd, TDs, and barrows? (note, I can switch decently, but no, I can't switch weapons and prayers lightning-fast at TDs. And i don't do any pking at ALL).

[Obtaurian]

After reading all this and watching quite a few videos, I agree, for general-purpose use and most bosshunting, and pvp, chaotic rapier is just flat out the best.

 

But....Just about every comparison was with maxed melee and overloads and turmoil. So, since like everyone else here, i'm deciding which is best for me, and unfortunately, I don't have maxed melee (my stats are still quite high, I'll have 99 str, 93 or 94 attack, 90 or 91 def) and I certainly won't have overloads (No, and I seriously doubt I'll get extremes. Perhaps super antifires but that's to be seen). I also am going to stick with piety for a very long time so...With all of these factors in question, to me, that changes the picture a bit.

 

So at 93 attack, 99 str, super sets, and piety, which would be better for miths, kbd, TDs, and barrows? (note, I can switch decently, but no, I can't switch weapons and prayers lightning-fast at TDs. And i don't do any pking at ALL).

 

You're one of those few players for whom the CLS might actually be the better option, but ONLY if you're really not going to be maxing out any time soon. If you get the CLS and get extremes and turmoil six months later, you'll have wished you got the rapier. Keep that in mind.

 

I might be completely wrong about all of that, though. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

However, if you plan on doing any slayer at all, the rapier is still much better.

[Capt_Davy]

Thank you very much for the input, it's good to have an experienced player who knows what he's talking about give some feedback. Looks like it's time to get working towards that CLS :cool:

 

So I guess the majority of people on this thread are still opting for CR?

[bedman]

I can't see it being too effective though, unless they're weak to stab? GS would give higher bonuses and that doesn't work out too well.

Well, I must admit I was perhaps a bit too enthousiastic in my report about it, but it still works very decent. I have tried godswording too a long time ago, and didn't like it, but that was without overloads and turmoil. Did you use turmoil and extremes? I think turmoil plays a huge role, and is definitely worth sipping a dose of prayer for, especially since they are so cheap lately. Lugia reported that CLS worked very well too, so I can't really say which is best, but I cán say that Rapier works very well.

 

By the way, I also tried a bandos setup afterwards (the one Lugia showed more or lessà, and it worked very well too. With that setup you can soul split the brothers and heal up a bit while you're still up there (from 490 (overload) to 800+). This way you barely use food, but of course you are open for lucky streaks from the bro's, which can happen from time to time.

 

Darthvora, your case is a bit complex I'd say. CLS would be a good option because the high att bonuses make up for your "low" attack lvl, and low attack boost (no turmoil and overloads/ xtremes). On the other hand, a chaotic rapier is THE weapon which is best to max out your melee stats. I'm sometimes a bit sad that rapier only came out when I was already maxed. I was "lucky" I still hadn't maxed slayer, cause otherwise the choice might have been tougher. (I guess I would have picked the maul then).

[Zaaps1]

Why would you have picked the maul? It's only really outstanding in PvP, isn't it?

[stonewall337]

I don't need rapier for slayer anymore, and I solo bandos a lot. Now I'm not sure if I want long or rapier. Thinking about rapier though, since whip already beasts graador.

[Golvellius]

Okay, I'll throw some numbers and assumptions into this debate since it's degrading into gibberish and fanboydom.

 

First I'll talk stab.

In stances, you get rapier on accurate, CLS on controlled. Lets assume accurate gives +3 attack levels and controlled gives +1 attack.

Rapier gets 3% attack level bonus and CLS gets 1% level bonus on 99.

In weapon stats, CR gets 94, CLS gets 107. CLS is 12% more accurate.

So, if you combine the two % together you get CLS is 10% more accurate than rapier. (assuming equal weighting of % differences between attack levels and weapon stats)

 

In terms of DPS,

 

Plug into the TIPIT max hit calculator CLS, extreme strength, controlled, turmoil, and max damage per swing is 508 (no other gear included)

For rapier, same circumstances, max damage per swing is 453.

CLS has 10% more damage per swing.

For DPS, you factor in weapon speed, CLS DPS is then 422, rapier 453. (CLS swings at 83% speed of Rapier / 5 bars versus 6 from manual), DPS difference is 6%.

Now lets take in into account accuracy.

Set Rapier accuracy at 95%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 433, CLS 422 (2% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 99%, DPS is Rapier 408, CLS 417 (2%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 82%, DPS is Rapier 342, CLS 346.(1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 55%. DPS is Rapier 228, CLS 232. (1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 27%, DPS is Rapier 113, CLS 113 (0%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 20%, CLS becomes 22%, DPS is Rapier 91, CLS 92 (1%)

 

Conclusion: CLS DPS is slightly lower than Rapier DPS at very high accuracies (95%+). The difference is marginal throughout most of the hit range with a slight edge to CLS.

 

For Slash,

 

Give CLS +3% over rapier on stance.

Weapons stat difference is CLS +124 versus Rapier +78 slash. CLS by 37%

Combined CLS is 40% more accurate than rapier in slash.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505 on accurate, Rapier 461 on aggresive slash.

Factor in weapon speed and Max DPS is CLS 419, Rapier 461. (9%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 35%, DPS is Rapier 115, CLS is 147 (21% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is Rapier 230, CLS is 293. (21%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 345, CLS is 419.(18%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 414, CLS is 419.(1%)

Conclusion: CLS dominates when Rapier accuracy falls to 75%. Quite obvious why.

 

And a comparision with Whip since gibberish is prevailing here.

Wash in stances.

CLS is 33% more accuracy on stats.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, Whip 402.

Max DPS: CLS 419 Whip 402 (4% difference)

Conclusion: CLS DPS is always greater than whip why bother with accuracy.

 

Comparison with Godswords (not accounting for 2H handicap)

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, GS 537

Max DPS (GS is 4bars 6 bars of whip/rapier): GS 358, CLS 419 (15% difference)

Accuracy, stances are wash so weapon stats are GS (132 to 124 CLS) +6% accuracy compared to CLS.

Set GS at 75%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is GS 268, CLS 293. (9% difference)

Set GS at 50%, CLS becomes 47%, DPS is GS 179, CLS 197. (9%)

Set GS at 25%, CLS becomes 23%, DPS is GS 89, CLS 96. (7%)

Set GS at 20%, CLS becomes 18%, DPS is GS 71, CLS 75. (5%)

Conclusion: At very low accuracy <20% DPS difference between the two becomes smaller. CLS DPS beats GS by roughly 10% at high accuracy.

 

Overall Conclusion: In a perfect world, where you hit everytime the rapier would net you roughly 5-10% more DPS based on stance. In reality, the two probably perform fairly equal in stab. In slash, the rapier falls by the way side when accuracy starts dropping to 75%. Whip and god sword are inferior to CLS. Efficiency monkeys may now pick at this. :!:

 

P.S. I know DPS is the improper term, since DPS = Damage per second and in no way shape or form have I normalized to 1 sec, it was simply put to the time unit for a 6 bar weapon strike.

Edited July 21, 2010 by trembake

[blackeagle4]

Okay, I'll throw some numbers and assumptions into this debate since it's degrading into gibberish and fanboydom.

 

First I'll talk stab.

In stances, you get rapier on accurate, CLS on controlled. Lets assume accurate gives +3 attack levels and controlled gives +1 attack.

Rapier gets 3% attack level bonus and CLS gets 1% level bonus on 99.

In weapon stats, CR gets 94, CLS gets 107. CLS is 12% more accurate.

So, if you combine the two % together you get CLS is 10% more accurate than rapier. (assuming equal weighting of % differences between attack levels and weapon stats)

 

In terms of DPS,

 

Plug into the TIPIT max hit calculator CLS, extreme strength, controlled, turmoil, and max damage per swing is 508 (no other gear included)

For rapier, same circumstances, max damage per swing is 453.

CLS has 10% more damage per swing.

For DPS, you factor in weapon speed, CLS DPS is then 422, rapier 453. (CLS swings at 83% speed of Rapier / 5 bars versus 6 from manual), DPS difference is 6%.

Now lets take in into account accuracy.

Set Rapier accuracy at 95%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 433, CLS 422 (2% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 99%, DPS is Rapier 408, CLS 417 (2%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 82%, DPS is Rapier 342, CLS 346.(1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 55%. DPS is Rapier 228, CLS 232. (1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 27%, DPS is Rapier 113, CLS 113 (0%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 20%, CLS becomes 22%, DPS is Rapier 91, CLS 92 (1%)

 

Conclusion: CLS DPS is slightly lower than Rapier DPS at very high accuracies (95%+). The difference is marginal throughout most of the hit range with a slight edge to CLS.

 

For Slash,

 

Give CLS +3% over rapier on stance.

Weapons stat difference is CLS +124 versus Rapier +78 slash. CLS by 37%

Combined CLS is 40% more accurate than rapier in slash.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505 on accurate, Rapier 461 on aggresive slash.

Factor in weapon speed and Max DPS is CLS 419, Rapier 461. (9%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 35%, DPS is Rapier 115, CLS is 147 (21% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is Rapier 230, CLS is 293. (21%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 345, CLS is 419.(18%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 414, CLS is 419.(1%)

Conclusion: CLS dominates when Rapier accuracy falls to 75%. Quite obvious why.

 

And a comparision with Whip since gibberish is prevailing here.

Wash in stances.

CLS is 33% more accuracy on stats.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, Whip 402.

Max DPS: CLS 419 Whip 402 (4% difference)

Conclusion: CLS DPS is always greater than whip why bother with accuracy.

 

Comparison with Godswords (not accounting for 2H handicap)

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, GS 537

Max DPS (GS is 4bars 6 bars of whip/rapier): GS 358, CLS 419 (15% difference)

Accuracy, stances are wash so weapon stats are GS (132 to 124 CLS) +6% accuracy compared to CLS.

Set GS at 75%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is GS 268, CLS 293. (9% difference)

Set GS at 50%, CLS becomes 47%, DPS is GS 179, CLS 197. (9%)

Set GS at 25%, CLS becomes 23%, DPS is GS 89, CLS 96. (7%)

Set GS at 20%, CLS becomes 18%, DPS is GS 71, CLS 75. (5%)

Conclusion: At very low accuracy <20% DPS difference between the two becomes smaller. CLS DPS beats GS by roughly 10% at high accuracy.

 

Overall Conclusion: In a perfect world, where you hit everytime the rapier would net you roughly 5-10% more DPS based on stance. In reality, the two probably perform fairly equal in stab. In slash, the rapier falls by the way side when accuracy starts dropping to 75%. Whip and god sword are inferior to CLS. Efficiency monkeys may now pick at this. :!:

 

 

FINALLY! Someone shows that thanks to its Accuracy, and the fact that you wont be hitting every swing, you've shown that the CLS has great potential. Sure the Slayer fanboys will still opt for the Rapier because everything they fight is low defence, as soon as you step into PVP or Boss hunting, that extra chunk of accuracy will help a ton.

[Golvellius]

 

 

 

FINALLY! Someone shows that thanks to its Accuracy, and the fact that you wont be hitting every swing, you've shown that the CLS has great potential. Sure the Slayer fanboys will still opt for the Rapier because everything they fight is low defence, as soon as you step into PVP or Boss hunting, that extra chunk of accuracy will help a ton.

 

PVP people are usually more interested in Max DPS than an average DPS with accuracy included that I presented.

Most people turn and run when their food is low instead of staying in a slug fest with protection prayers running and defense maxed out.

In PVP, Dragon claws, DDS, Chaotic maul, granite maul specs, "hybrid" combos, and possibely even CR outperform the CLS when your rolling the die well so to speak.

In castle wars, its a slug fest since its safe PVP. Thats why I got a CLS.

[TheAncient]

Okay, I'll throw some numbers and assumptions into this debate since it's degrading into gibberish and fanboydom.

 

First I'll talk stab.

In stances, you get rapier on accurate, CLS on controlled. Lets assume accurate gives +3 attack levels and controlled gives +1 attack.

Rapier gets 3% attack level bonus and CLS gets 1% level bonus on 99.

In weapon stats, CR gets 94, CLS gets 107. CLS is 12% more accurate.

So, if you combine the two % together you get CLS is 10% more accurate than rapier. (assuming equal weighting of % differences between attack levels and weapon stats)

 

In terms of DPS,

 

Plug into the TIPIT max hit calculator CLS, extreme strength, controlled, turmoil, and max damage per swing is 508 (no other gear included)

For rapier, same circumstances, max damage per swing is 453.

CLS has 10% more damage per swing.

For DPS, you factor in weapon speed, CLS DPS is then 422, rapier 453. (CLS swings at 83% speed of Rapier / 5 bars versus 6 from manual), DPS difference is 6%.

Now lets take in into account accuracy.

Set Rapier accuracy at 95%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 433, CLS 422 (2% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 99%, DPS is Rapier 408, CLS 417 (2%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 82%, DPS is Rapier 342, CLS 346.(1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 55%. DPS is Rapier 228, CLS 232. (1%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 27%, DPS is Rapier 113, CLS 113 (0%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 20%, CLS becomes 22%, DPS is Rapier 91, CLS 92 (1%)

 

Conclusion: CLS DPS is slightly lower than Rapier DPS at very high accuracies (95%+). The difference is marginal throughout most of the hit range with a slight edge to CLS.

 

For Slash,

 

Give CLS +3% over rapier on stance.

Weapons stat difference is CLS +124 versus Rapier +78 slash. CLS by 37%

Combined CLS is 40% more accurate than rapier in slash.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505 on accurate, Rapier 461 on aggresive slash.

Factor in weapon speed and Max DPS is CLS 419, Rapier 461. (9%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 25%, CLS becomes 35%, DPS is Rapier 115, CLS is 147 (21% difference)

Set Rapier accuracy at 50%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is Rapier 230, CLS is 293. (21%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 75%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 345, CLS is 419.(18%)

Set Rapier accuracy at 90%, CLS becomes 100%, DPS is Rapier 414, CLS is 419.(1%)

Conclusion: CLS dominates when Rapier accuracy falls to 75%. Quite obvious why.

 

And a comparision with Whip since gibberish is prevailing here.

Wash in stances.

CLS is 33% more accuracy on stats.

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, Whip 402.

Max DPS: CLS 419 Whip 402 (4% difference)

Conclusion: CLS DPS is always greater than whip why bother with accuracy.

 

Comparison with Godswords (not accounting for 2H handicap)

Max hits per swing: CLS 505, GS 537

Max DPS (GS is 4bars 6 bars of whip/rapier): GS 358, CLS 419 (15% difference)

Accuracy, stances are wash so weapon stats are GS (132 to 124 CLS) +6% accuracy compared to CLS.

Set GS at 75%, CLS becomes 70%, DPS is GS 268, CLS 293. (9% difference)

Set GS at 50%, CLS becomes 47%, DPS is GS 179, CLS 197. (9%)

Set GS at 25%, CLS becomes 23%, DPS is GS 89, CLS 96. (7%)

Set GS at 20%, CLS becomes 18%, DPS is GS 71, CLS 75. (5%)

Conclusion: At very low accuracy <20% DPS difference between the two becomes smaller. CLS DPS beats GS by roughly 10% at high accuracy.

 

Overall Conclusion: In a perfect world, where you hit everytime the rapier would net you roughly 5-10% more DPS based on stance. In reality, the two probably perform fairly equal in stab. In slash, the rapier falls by the way side when accuracy starts dropping to 75%. Whip and god sword are inferior to CLS. Efficiency monkeys may now pick at this. :!:

 

 

FINALLY! Someone shows that thanks to its Accuracy, and the fact that you wont be hitting every swing, you've shown that the CLS has great potential. Sure the Slayer fanboys will still opt for the Rapier because everything they fight is low defence, as soon as you step into PVP or Boss hunting, that extra chunk of accuracy will help a ton.

 

Except those numbers are inaccurate and it doesn't correctly use accuracy.

 

I did the same calculations with a calculator I made. The numbers are:

Against 0 Def : Rapier is better than CLS/Maul by 15%

Against Medium to High Def: CLS is 2-3% better DPS. However, CLS is MUCH WORSE than rapier in PvP because you can eat twice against a CLS's swing but only once against a CR.

 

I made a post about this a long while ago, lol, if you want to see how the calculator works.

 

Anyway, Maul is useful for TD's, Bandos (easier to flash SS with if you're really pro), Sara -- pretty much all the main (melee) PvM bosses. CLS is really only useful for Bandos and that's about it. And Rapier is good enough there anyway. If you really need anticrash at Bandos, get a steel titan.

[Golvellius]

 

Except those numbers are inaccurate and it doesn't correctly use accuracy.

 

I did the same calculations with a calculator I made. The numbers are:

Against 0 Def : Rapier is better than CLS/Maul by 15%

Against Medium to High Def: CLS is 2-3% better DPS. However, CLS is MUCH WORSE than rapier in PvP because you can eat twice against a CLS's swing but only once against a CR.

 

I made a post about this a long while ago, lol, if you want to see how the calculator works.

 

Anyway, Maul is useful for TD's, Bandos (easier to flash SS with if you're really pro), Sara -- pretty much all the main (melee) PvM bosses. CLS is really only useful for Bandos and that's about it. And Rapier is good enough there anyway. If you really need anticrash at Bandos, get a steel titan.

 

I figured 5-10% with 100% accuracy your saying 15%. Your numbers are probably high because your saying that CLS doesn't have the max DPS it has for some mythical reason.

And you have 2-3% DPS in favor of CLS with lower accuracy in play and I have 1-2% with rounding down back-of-the-envelop calculations. Same thing.

PVP is whatever you make work for you. Its part skill, part strategy, all dice rolling. Vid your wins and pretend like you never die and your a Pking star.

Good luck with the gibberish on how CLS does better on things with mid to high defense but is useless on things with medium to high defense and that the chaotic maul is the reason why CLS is inferior to CR.

NEXT.

[Bladewing]

trembake your assumption of accuracy calculation is horribly flawed. If you double your attack level, you don't become twice as accurate. If you hit 90% of the time on a goblin at 40 attack, do you hit 180% of the time on a goblin at 80 attack?

[xpx]

trembake, those are some horrible calculations and assumptions you have made there... Firstly, you'd use rapier on stab, cls on slash, not any other way, and secondly, accuracy is very complex- at dark beasts with ovl, turm ad maxed str equipment cls and rapier have the SAME accuracy, and as accuracy matters very little in most pvm circumstances, rapier dominates cls in those circumstances. Efficiently, the rapier hit's 25% more often, so those are 25% hits the cls misses, but only offers 10% more damage with questionable accuracy increase. Sure- when you need the extra accuracy and are hitting around 50% of the time, the cls comes into it's own, but really, then you are going up against bandos and saradomin, where maul would be even better. And for pking, the fact that you can eat twice between hits kills it.

[TheAncient]

 

Except those numbers are inaccurate and it doesn't correctly use accuracy.

 

I did the same calculations with a calculator I made. The numbers are:

Against 0 Def : Rapier is better than CLS/Maul by 15%

Against Medium to High Def: CLS is 2-3% better DPS. However, CLS is MUCH WORSE than rapier in PvP because you can eat twice against a CLS's swing but only once against a CR.

 

I made a post about this a long while ago, lol, if you want to see how the calculator works.

 

Anyway, Maul is useful for TD's, Bandos (easier to flash SS with if you're really pro), Sara -- pretty much all the main (melee) PvM bosses. CLS is really only useful for Bandos and that's about it. And Rapier is good enough there anyway. If you really need anticrash at Bandos, get a steel titan.

 

I figured 5-10% with 100% accuracy your saying 15%. Your numbers are probably high because your saying that CLS doesn't have the max DPS it has for some mythical reason.

And you have 2-3% DPS in favor of CLS with lower accuracy in play and I have 1-2% with rounding down back-of-the-envelop calculations. Same thing.

PVP is whatever you make work for you. Its part skill, part strategy, all dice rolling. Vid your wins and pretend like you never die and your a Pking star.

Good luck with the gibberish on how CLS does better on things with mid to high defense but is useless on things with medium to high defense and that the chaotic maul is the reason why CLS is inferior to CR.

NEXT.

 

Lol. I was hoping not to have to explain it, but here it goes:

 

Imagine that an attacker and defender have two dice. In each attack turn, both of the players roll their dice. If the attacker rolls higher, he wins and the attack hits. If the defender rolls higher, the defender wins and the attack misses. The dice rolls are calculated based on the max hit formula, except replacing "Strength Level" with either attack or defense level, and "Equipment Strength" with attack/defense bonuses. This theory has been supported multiple times (even partially by Jagex), and is relatively consistent with observation.

 

That's how I wrote my program to calculate accuracy. I used Jard Y Dooku's max hit formula.

 

Feel free to call my claims jibberish, if you want. I'm just putting out there another opinion which may or may not be more valid.

 

And lol at your pvp reference. Hyperbole: Bronze spears are the best PKing weapon because I make it work for me.

[Quyneax]

And lol at your pvp reference. Hyperbole: Bronze spears are the best PKing weapon because I make it work for me.

The KBD is killed with bronze daggers, right? Now it's also 1 tick faster than the spear... wonder how that works out.

[iRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLsknyoDkb4

 

Good comparison tbh

 

Longsword over rapier in my opinion. I can't stand seeing 10 0's in a row. Also for everyone advocating that rapier still gets by decently for bosses, you need to think ahead. Obviously Jagex is going to release harder bosses that have more defense, so why go on the lower end? Get a weapon that from day one you will be able to kill those bosses efficiently with.

[Zaaps1]

vid

 

Good comparison tbh

 

Longsword over rapier in my opinion. I can't stand seeing 10 0's in a row. Also for everyone advocating that rapier still gets by decently for bosses, you need to think ahead. Obviously Jagex is going to release harder bosses that have more defense, so why go on the lower end? Get a weapon that from day one you will be able to kill those bosses efficiently with.

 

But then the argument is, you're better off with the maul if you're so concerned about bosses.

[iRed]

vid

 

Good comparison tbh

 

Longsword over rapier in my opinion. I can't stand seeing 10 0's in a row. Also for everyone advocating that rapier still gets by decently for bosses, you need to think ahead. Obviously Jagex is going to release harder bosses that have more defense, so why go on the lower end? Get a weapon that from day one you will be able to kill those bosses efficiently with.

 

But then the argument is, you're better off with the maul if you're so concerned about bosses.

 

Not really, the all around weapon is the best for predicting new content. As with the maul you can't wield a shield.