Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[ghjkl]

Just let him buy it and regret wasting 200k tokens. That's what happened to me.

[TheAncient]

Help me convince my friend that CLS is WAY WORSE then rapier, especially since he like never does bandos, and does DKS.

 

BTW Ryan, I know you are reading this.

 

Rapier 530 / 2.4 = 221 DPS

CLS 590 / 3 = 197 DPS

 

At maximum accuracy, rapier is TEN PERCENT better than CLS. thats huge. it's the difference between the strength of piety and the strength of turmoil, arguably more. Rapier is also very accurate if you have ex/turm

 

in pvp, you can eat twice for every CLS swing, but only once for every rapier swing.

[ghjkl]

Not exactly on the thing for pvp. In pvp,, while someone can eat 2 times between cls hits the first time, for the next 3 hits, they can only eat once.

[Bladewing]

Also, I am not denying that the whip was the best weapon, but if it's so similar, why wouldn't you just continue to use a whip, rather than spend 200k tokens on a weapon that you already have similar alternatives for?

It's similar to a whip the same way dragon scimitar is similar to a rune scimitar. Obviously you'd take the dragon scimitar, so obviously if I have a rapier and a whip in my bank I'd take the rapier (for most things).

[Squisher_33]

ulness a chaotic spear comes out ill always maintain that rapier is best

 

also.....i have rapier and all i do is slay.....so what should i buy next? im piling up tokens again and evernauly ill get another 200k and im not sure....heres what im torn between

 

kiteshield

maul

 

any help guys?

[Bladewing]

Scroll of life

Arcane stream

[Obtaurian]

Off topic, but I've heard that augury actually DOES increase magic damage. Any truth to this? I wouldn't be surprised at all. The KB still says that the chaotic staff has a +15% damage bonus.

[xpx]

sseli, the difference in dps is actually even bigger if you factor in accuracy and average damage... Assuming your average damage is max damage/2(which is quite reasonable) and the maximum accuracy against ~no defense(usual slayer monsters up to dark beasts) for rapier is 80%, with cls accuracy being 1% better(which is also about right) against kurdal dungeon dark beasts we would get:

 

CR: max damage 669, average [max/2 + 20(because of fero ring)]*0,8(accuracy) is 283,6 and DPS is 118,16

CLS: max damage 727, average (max/2+20)*0,81 is 310,635 and DPS is 103,55

I'm not too sure on whip accuracy on dark beasts, but i'd gues 75% would be a good estimate:

Whip: max damage 605, average (max/2+20)*0,75 is 241,875 and DPS is 100,78

(the max hits are taken from tip.it calc with maxed slaying armor and thingies, though the figures are all a bit lower than what i have experienced in reality)

 

Now before you say these figures have nothing to do with reality, the rapier figures are awfully close to what i'm getting on dark beast tasks on perfect conditions(no lag, only person slaying) at 41-42k DP an hour versus the 42.5k that you would get from these calculations, and you are bound to get higher figures as this doesn't account for deadly hits(which lower the average).

 

Now if we calculate the DPS differences, the rapier is 14,1% more efficient than the longsword and 17,2% than the whip, while the longsword is 2,7% more efficient than a whip. If we take deadly hits into account, the whip loses the least DPS(lowest max and fastest), rapier loses a little more(higher max, same speed) and longsword loses the most DPS as it has the highest max hit with the slowest speed, so the actual important figures should show that the rapier is ~16% better than the longsword and the whip(which are around equal). Now ofcource, this is an example useful only against low defense monsters like slayer monsters and frost dragons, but because the difference is so big, the DPS at which CLS becomes equal to or better than the rapier is around 3 times lower than the maximum DPS, realistic only at PvP or highest level bosses, and even then the rapier is within 5% of CLS efficiency. So unless you are going to ONLY solo bandos and perhaps rarely do TD's, or if you are really daft caring only about the aesthetics of a weapon, CLS is the sword for you.

 

Squisher, maul is the coolest weapon in game, and extremely useful for PvP/waterfiends, so i'd suggest one of those. Shields are rarely used anyway, and degrading armor ****'s.

[stonewall337]

Scroll of life

Arcane stream

 

 

This. In under a week Scroll of life saved me 800k.

[Dragonlordjl]

Doing a WF task with a maul is hilarious. Even unpotted, my kills are significantly faster than the people around me who are using sara swords and z spears.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

I like my CLS so far. Granted, I would like a Rapier for Frost Drags, but they didn't exist when I had to pick between Rapier and Long. I figured since I soloed Bandos and did TDs so much(Woox16 prefers Long over Rapier at TDs) that CLS was the sword for me. Plus, if I had gotten the Rapier, I would probably have had a voice inside of me saying "should have gotten CLS" since CLS was what I was leaning towards before I even got 80 Dungeon, since I already had 99 Slayer.

[AnneFrank]

ulness a chaotic spear comes out ill always maintain that rapier is best

 

also.....i have rapier and all i do is slay.....so what should i buy next? im piling up tokens again and evernauly ill get another 200k and im not sure....heres what im torn between

 

kiteshield

maul

 

any help guys?

i got maul as my 2nd item.

 

but ckite is great for bandos

and gives stab bonus.

 

 

maul is more of a fun weapon for maxing and stuff.

[LatinII]

Off topic, but I've heard that augury actually DOES increase magic damage. Any truth to this? I wouldn't be surprised at all. The KB still says that the chaotic staff has a +15% damage bonus.

 

It really doesn't. From who have you heard this?

[Obtaurian]

Off topic, but I've heard that augury actually DOES increase magic damage. Any truth to this? I wouldn't be surprised at all. The KB still says that the chaotic staff has a +15% damage bonus.

 

It really doesn't. From who have you heard this?

 

It's a "friend of a friend" thing. :lol: Someone in my clan chat said that he's friends with some of the top dungeoneers, and they apparently told him that augury does increase magic damage.

[LatinII]

Off topic, but I've heard that augury actually DOES increase magic damage. Any truth to this? I wouldn't be surprised at all. The KB still says that the chaotic staff has a +15% damage bonus.

 

It really doesn't. From who have you heard this?

 

It's a "friend of a friend" thing. :lol: Someone in my clan chat said that he's friends with some of the top dungeoneers, and they apparently told him that augury does increase magic damage.

 

I remember somebody posting a picture of the stat adjustments with Augury activated, showing it increases your Magic by 20% and NORMAL Defence by 25%. She didn't say anything about it actually increasing damage though. Interesting.

 

Edit: If Augury really does increase your max hit by 20%, Ice Barrage maxes at 588 with an arcane stream necklace, a chaotic staff and Magic Focus' scrolls... lol.

[mujammil]

The rapier is too similar to a whip, imo. Also, the maul is too similar to godswords...Cls is somewhat the middle ground between the two, and has no suitable alternative (Vls is quite similar, yet highly inefficient for the cost). That's my reasoning for buying a Cls, and i'm happy with it thus far.

Yet everyone knows that a whip was the best weapon prior to chaotic weapons. What's wrong with being similar to the best weapon?

 

--

 

Also

 

"CLS is best"

"No it's not"

"Well I'm happy with it"

 

is not a strong argument.

 

I never stated I thought Cls was the best. I just explained my reasoning for purchasing one, and how I feel it's the middle ground between the other two chaotic weapons. Also, I am not denying that the whip was the best weapon, but if it's so similar, why wouldn't you just continue to use a whip, rather than spend 200k tokens on a weapon that you already have similar alternatives for?

 

Because it's better?

[JacTise69]

On the contrary the world would be a terrible place. As soon as you were too old to be efficient a younger more efficient person would take your place and you my friend would be euthanized. Or to heck with you getting too old, you could just get a terminal disease, the result would be the same.

Quit thinking of efficiency in terms of black and white.

I mean, "in theory" euthanizing old people would be efficient.

In the same way that communism is efficient, *in theory*.

 

sure, it would be efficient for the economy as a whole to kill all the old people, assuming you could kill them with 0 effort.

but the old people would, obviously, resist.

and presumably, the time and resources required to accurately figure out who is too old to be efficient, and to actually kill them, would just be absurd.

 

Ultimately having a community that is just full of kind, smart people is the best solution, in the same way that capitalism is the most efficient form of economy.

One's stable and easy to maintain, the other isnt.

 

I figured since we were dealing with hypothetical situations it made sense to assume that everything would be efficient including the measuring of who was too old and killing them off. Oh well.

 

Not sure where communism comes in to play, but it is late where I'm at and im sleepy so maybe ill get it tomorrow.

 

 

Just imagine a world where people only care about efficiency and don't care about looks. What would the world look like?

 

 

China.

 

If the world researched more about efficiency, it would be a kinder more charitable place.

 

On the contrary the world would be a terrible place. As soon as you were too old to be efficient a younger more efficient person would take your place and you my friend would be euthanized. Or to heck with you getting too old, you could just get a terminal disease, the result would be the same.

 

And because none of my post was on topic you have my apologies. I was bored while eating breakfast and like to browse this thread and laugh at all the people still arguing that the CLS is better than the CR. The ONLY reason to buy a CLS is if you are basing your purchase 100% on looks, if you care even 1% about efficiency (which in my experience every rs player does, they just hate admitting that they're way of doing things is inefficient because they're also too full of pride to ever admit they're wrong.) then you should get a CR.

 

Screw the rules I have money.

 

Judging by your stats, long is better for you. Nice hopes and dreams.

 

errhm...what hopes and dreams?

 

You go ahead and get yourself a CR, you'll regret it with stats like that. Have fun hitting zeros.

 

What do you assume I'll be using the CR for? Pretty sure with a whip hitting a zero was a rare occurance at armoured zombies and just about every slayer task I would get, which is what I would be using the CR for. Powertraining and slayer. Why would I waste my tokens on a CLS for it to be moderately better for a short period of time compared to the CR which will be better indefinitely once I get "high" stats?

[Squisher_33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLsknyoDkb4&feature=channel

 

from what i saw rapier and ls averaged 30 secon kills and basicly tied, while maul averaged about 25-29 second kills, a 7 or 8 hit

 

this backs up my argument that ls is useless, for low def rapier and high def maul is best, so if u have maul and rapier then ls has no use

 

also this shows rapier and ls about tie on bandos, a rapier 12 hit ties a longsword 10 hit

[TheAncient]

I wouldn't say CLS is useless, just not as useful. The severe downside of 2-handedness makes CLS situationally better than maul.

[Squisher_33]

I wouldn't say CLS is useless, just not as useful. The severe downside of 2-handedness makes CLS situationally better than maul.

 

only if you own a divine or ely or ck

[TheAncient]

I wouldn't say CLS is useless, just not as useful. The severe downside of 2-handedness makes CLS situationally better than maul.

 

only if you own a divine or ely or ck

 

DFS, spectral, and even BSS are all very good shields and should be used in most tough PvM situations.

 

Arcane is also good for PvP.

 

The key here is not to be reductionist. Even though I agree CR > CM > CLS, the weapons are pretty finely balanced and have situational uses.

[Bassy]

CR isn't as bad at Tormented Demons as you think. Using Wooox's method with a Steel titan I was getting kills just about as fast as him, and I don't have Extremes and only 87 Ranged.

 

I'm pretty sure what happened with all this resistance is that when Dungeoneering came out, people wanted a weapon that showed up more when wearing it, so we all got hyped up over the CLS because it was a bit more noticeable, and now we're having a tough time admitting it isn't exactly the most efficient. Needless to say, I'm still very satisfied with the level 80 weapons so far. I'm going to save up my next 200k tokens and wait for the Chaotic Spear should it be planned for release with batch 2. :thumbsup:

[Jani_xd]

rapier owns on slayer

[Squisher_33]

CR isn't as bad at Tormented Demons as you think. Using Wooox's method with a Steel titan I was getting kills just about as fast as him, and I don't have Extremes and only 87 Ranged.

 

I'm pretty sure what happened with all this resistance is that when Dungeoneering came out, people wanted a weapon that showed up more when wearing it, so we all got hyped up over the CLS because it was a bit more noticeable, and now we're having a tough time admitting it isn't exactly the most efficient. Needless to say, I'm still very satisfied with the level 80 weapons so far. I'm going to save up my next 200k tokens and wait for the Chaotic Spear should it be planned for release with batch 2. :thumbsup:

 

warped spear tbh

[Lugia_Lvl138]

I wouldn't say CLS is useless, just not as useful. The severe downside of 2-handedness makes CLS situationally better than maul.

 

only if you own a divine or ely or ck

 

I own a Divine, another reason I went with CLS.