Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[TheAncient]

CLS seems to be harder to fight against in safe PvP, just out of subjective observation. I have no numerical proof.

[howbadisbad]

CLS seems to be harder to fight against in safe PvP, just out of subjective observation. I have no numerical proof.

 

Maybe because in safe pvp you wear better armor :-?

[Youmu]

A straw man is a logical fallicy where one erects an argument based on a false pretense, and then tears down that argument, or builds it up. His claiming I said he was never P2P, when in reality I said he had no real GWD/Bossing experience, is his construction of a straw man.

Well that's what I THOUGHT you were referring to. How I type doesn't mean I correctly understand what people say every time. :unsure:

 

Anyways, I'll just leave you guys here. I only came here because I thought it would be just like all the other weapon debates (where speed wins out).

[TheAncient]

CLS seems to be harder to fight against in safe PvP, just out of subjective observation. I have no numerical proof.

 

Maybe because in safe pvp you wear better armor :-?

 

Yes but people are claiming that armor doesn't matter and rapier is always better. I don't see anything wrong with the math but just empirically there seems to be something wrong with it.

[Assume Nothing]

Another scenario; Let's say, I got 88 Dungeoneering for kicks after getting 85 for Frost Dragons. Now, I bought the Rapier and the Maul, is there any point in the CLS?

Anyone?

[Owned_Nex]

CLS seems to be harder to fight against in safe PvP, just out of subjective observation. I have no numerical proof.

 

Maybe because in safe pvp you wear better armor :-?

 

Yes but people are claiming that armor doesn't matter and rapier is always better. I don't see anything wrong with the math but just empirically there seems to be something wrong with it.

 

It seems right. I mean, in, pretty much the best PvP safe gear(Nezzy, Fury, Bandos CP and Tassets, DFS, D Boots, and Barrows Gloves), the defense bonus of stab is only 9 higher. Roughly, someone with a CR will hit ~18% of the time, while CLS hits about 20% of the time. While slashing CLS htis about 23% of the time. Considering how close the hit chance is, I would say speed wins out even in the highest armored PvP scenarios.

[Zaaps1]

Another scenario; Let's say, I got 88 Dungeoneering for kicks after getting 85 for Frost Dragons. Now, I bought the Rapier and the Maul, is there any point in the CLS?

Anyone?

 

I think at that point I'd just get a Chaotic Shield or wait for the Batch 2 goodies.

[Assume Nothing]

Another scenario; Let's say, I got 88 Dungeoneering for kicks after getting 85 for Frost Dragons. Now, I bought the Rapier and the Maul, is there any point in the CLS?

Anyone?

 

I think at that point I'd just get a Chaotic Shield or wait for the Batch 2 goodies.

 

I think the Chaotic Staff might be worth it, in certain situations. What do you think?

[Youmu]

I think the Chaotic Staff might be worth it, in certain situations. What do you think?

The Staff of Light has the same +15% damage...

 

And the Chaotic Staff has like what, +1 more magic accuracy?

[Zaaps1]

Yeah, I would not sacrifice the rune saving ability of the SoL for the minuscule benefit of +1 accuracy or so.

 

And if you look at it, you can value CR and CM at 30m-50m each.

 

What are you going to value the CS as? 5m?

[Youmu]

What are you going to value the CS as? 5m?

I would value the Chaotic Staff as worthless/overpriced.

 

Just like mercenary's gloves, bonecrusher, scroll of renewal (not sure about this one), etc.

[Assume Nothing]

I think the Chaotic Staff might be worth it, in certain situations. What do you think?

The Staff of Light has the same +15% damage...

 

And the Chaotic Staff has like what, +1 more magic accuracy?

It's 20%, not 15%. Duh.

[Zaaps1]

Even that extra 5% won't make it better than the rune saving ability, but also remember that the extra damage only applies to one monster.

[Assume Nothing]

Even that extra 5% won't make it better than the rune saving ability, but also remember that the extra damage only applies to one monster.

 

I don't get it, you can cast ancients with the Chaotic Staff, and it's one handed. Besides, the rune saving ability isn't very significant anyway, so if you value time more than money, Chaotic Staff should be the way to go.

[Zaaps1]

Even that extra 5% won't make it better than the rune saving ability, but also remember that the extra damage only applies to one monster.

 

I don't get it, you can cast ancients with the Chaotic Staff, and it's one handed. Besides, the rune saving ability isn't very significant anyway, so if you value time more than money, Chaotic Staff should be the way to go.

 

What I mean is, if you are barraging 9 monsters, only 1 monster gets the 20%/15% damage bonus, not all 9.

 

Plus remember that the rune saving ability gets bumped to 1/2 once you use battle robes, whereas if you use battle robes with the staff, it's at 1/4 or whatever the normal rate is, which is significantly lower.

 

I'd rather save half of my runes. I'd easily make up for the money "lost" due to 5% less damage on one monster. Even if I didn't, it wouldn't be enough to justify spending the points.

[Youmu]

It's 20%, not 15%. Duh.

Strange, because it's +15% according to this. :unsure:

 

But then some places say it's +20%... Dunno which lol.

[Assume Nothing]

Even that extra 5% won't make it better than the rune saving ability, but also remember that the extra damage only applies to one monster.

 

I don't get it, you can cast ancients with the Chaotic Staff, and it's one handed. Besides, the rune saving ability isn't very significant anyway, so if you value time more than money, Chaotic Staff should be the way to go.

 

What I mean is, if you are barraging 9 monsters, only 1 monster gets the 20%/15% damage bonus, not all 9.

 

Plus remember that the rune saving ability gets bumped to 1/2 once you use battle robes, whereas if you use battle robes with the staff, it's at 1/4 or whatever the normal rate is, which is significantly lower.

 

I'd rather save half of my runes. I'd easily make up for the money "lost" due to 5% less damage on one monster. Even if I didn't, it wouldn't be enough to justify spending the points.

 

Since when? I thought the extra 5% applied to all the monsters, would be great for rock lobsters. Oh well. Not sure how 'worth it' battle robes are, how long do they last anyways?

 

I'd wait for batch 2, HOPEFULLY Chaotic Spear will be out.

[Zaaps1]

Even that extra 5% won't make it better than the rune saving ability, but also remember that the extra damage only applies to one monster.

 

I don't get it, you can cast ancients with the Chaotic Staff, and it's one handed. Besides, the rune saving ability isn't very significant anyway, so if you value time more than money, Chaotic Staff should be the way to go.

 

What I mean is, if you are barraging 9 monsters, only 1 monster gets the 20%/15% damage bonus, not all 9.

 

Plus remember that the rune saving ability gets bumped to 1/2 once you use battle robes, whereas if you use battle robes with the staff, it's at 1/4 or whatever the normal rate is, which is significantly lower.

 

I'd rather save half of my runes. I'd easily make up for the money "lost" due to 5% less damage on one monster. Even if I didn't, it wouldn't be enough to justify spending the points.

 

Since when? I thought the extra 5% applied to all the monsters, would be great for rock lobsters. Oh well. Not sure how 'worth it' battle robes are, how long do they last anyways?

 

I'd wait for batch 2, HOPEFULLY Chaotic Spear will be out.

 

That's always been the way the magic damage works, which is why people normally don't get overly obsessed with stacking it (using Wolper, mage pots, etc.)

 

Battle Robes last ~4 hours at Rock Lobsters, and that's pretty much constant combat.

 

Yes, above anything else, I'd wait for batch 2 in your case, unless you want to get a Chaotic Shield.

[TheAncient]

5% extra magic damage in PvP is useful. It's not a waste of time to get the chaotic staff.

[Zaaps1]

Yes but no one is going to risk it in PvP.

 

And if you're playing a safe PvP, then it doesn't really matter too much to warrant the 200k tokens.

 

Why would you EVER get it over a Chaotic Shield?

[Quyneax]

Beacuse you'd get divine/ely/spectral/arcane over a chaotic shield. They cost quite too much for the bonus. Offence is worth much more than defence, in general.

[Owned_Nex]

Spirit Shields are RARELY used for PKing. NObody gets them because Chaotic Shield and Staff both suck

[Zaaps1]

Beacuse you'd get divine/ely/spectral/arcane over a chaotic shield. They cost quite too much for the bonus. Offence is worth much more than defence, in general.

 

And if you don't have 400m+ to spend? You value Chaotic Shields at 50m or so, and that's a lot less than 400m for the higher class Spirit Shields.

[TheAncient]

Yes but no one is going to risk it in PvP.

 

And if you're playing a safe PvP, then it doesn't really matter too much to warrant the 200k tokens.

 

Why would you EVER get it over a Chaotic Shield?

 

1) Taco limey has a video where he uses chaotic staff. Also if you're maging chaotic staff will likely protect over your other items, so you're not really risking it.

2) 90% of my bank's worth is dedicated to clan war items.

3) Because people enjoy DG and have a bunch of extra tokens, and Chaotic shield ain't that good.

 

Also spirit shields are comparatively cheaper than the DG shields. Arguably better too in certain contexts because of no degrade cost + no negative attack bonuses (FKS has -15 range)

 

By the way I would argue that DFS/Arc/Spec switch (switched well, of course) is stronger than just Ely in PvP contexts, mostly because hitting your barrages and avoiding your enemy's save you a TON of melee damage. Makes you harder to KO with melee + makes it easier for you to KO the other person. One kid I know prefers Arc over Div.

 

Of course a Arc/Div or Arc/Ely switch is clearly better than Arc/Spec/DFS switch, but I'm just putting it out there that it's possible to get something better than a single Ely. Plus the three shields are a lot cheaper (150M for all 3)

 

Arc/Div > Arc/Ely > Arc/Spec/DFS =(depends)= Div > Ely > Arc > Spec > DFS

 

This is obviously for safe PvP...

[Andy]

I'm about to hit 200k tokens and would like to know which I should get: rapier or longsword.

My stats:

I don't slay much but I train at bandits.

I don't melee bandos or sara, and don't plan to. I might tds in the future.

I pk.

 

Please give your unbiased opinions. Is rapier accurate enough? Is the cls good for training with?

 

Thanks.