An Elitist's View on Crashing

[Mr_Muto]

Crashing is fun, but I prefer not to do it unless I've got no other choice. Sure I'll hop around a few times, but if I have to crash I will. And I'll enjoy it. If you don't have the stats to compete for your spot, you should be off training them instead. Combat costs no money so you don't "need" it to go level up. I will crash people if they do start a flame war/insult whatever.

[revanlives]

+1 to everything Sly Wizard has said in this thread.

 

You can hide behind, "I'm moral irl, but Rs is pixelated therefore the real people who play it don't matter so I have a right to do whatever I want to them," but it's a flimsy argument to suggest that doing the kind thing only matters when you see the other person. Imo, the best way to live is treating all people with respect wherever you are-regardless of race, gender, sexuality, or how good their Rs skills are.

[Aiel]

+1 to everything Sly Wizard has said in this thread.

 

You can hide behind, "I'm moral irl, but Rs is pixelated therefore the real people who play it don't matter so I have a right to do whatever I want to them," but it's a flimsy argument to suggest that doing the kind thing only matters when you see the other person. Imo, the best way to live is treating all people with respect wherever you are-regardless of race, gender, sexuality, or how good their Rs skills are.

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

[ghjkl]

As I have stated before, not crashing is like giving to charity. You are intentionally harming yourself to give some benefit for someone else, but it is not required. You only do it for some moral conscience to make you feel better, but you have no right to tell others to give to charity, just like you have no right to tell others to not crash. Some people feel that others over the internet are more important than themselves, and do not crash, while some willingly crash for the intention of being more efficient and not wasting time.

 

Btw @mutoman, today its not melee stats that determines whether someone can crash someone or not. Its herblore, prayer, and dungeoneering.

[Sly_Wizard]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

As I have stated before, not crashing is like giving to charity. You are intentionally harming yourself to give some benefit for someone else, but it is not required. You only do it for some moral conscience to make you feel better, but you have no right to tell others to give to charity, just like you have no right to tell others to not crash. Some people feel that others over the internet are more important than themselves, and do not crash, while some willingly crash for the intention of being more efficient and not wasting time.

 

So you really don't understand the difference between telling someone what they have to do (i.e., give someone |=|233 57()()|=5) and what they can't do to another (impede on their gameplay)? Mmmkay. Makes me wonder where all the logical people went.

[Sly_Wizard]

And errr, yeah. Don't know how this double posted.

[Aiel]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

its the reason I don't justify 138s crashing 110s at bandos, there only going to last a kill or two, let them have there fun, and then you can have yours. However at somewhere like dks (at peak times), if there's a level 110 hes going to last 2+ hours, so crashing him IS justified. Also, sly, you cant argue with the fact that crashing creates faster kills as well as the motivation for low->mid level players to train there stats, which is POSITIVE for runescape as a whole.

[Dragonlordjl]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

its the reason I don't justify 138s crashing 110s at bandos, there only going to last a kill or two, let them have there fun, and then you can have yours. However at somewhere like dks (at peak times), if there's a level 110 hes going to last 2+ hours, so crashing him IS justified. Also, sly, you cant argue with the fact that crashing creates faster kills as well as the motivation for low->mid level players to train there stats, which is POSITIVE for runescape as a whole.

If there is a small team of lower levels at Bandos, usually my team will give them a warning before we go in. Usually something like "You have 2 kills until we come in."

[TheAncient]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

It's possible to be a troll without realizing it

 

Also, "rationalization" isn't necessarily bad. The most basic reason people crash is out of what you'll probably call "laziness" - but that's not inherently a bad thing. If it allows more valuable items to be created into the world, why not? It's really just a matter of perception of who "owns" the spot. There aren't a lot of solid reasons why the early bird deserves the spot. The most basic reason is simply convention.

 

Analogy: a big company moves into a small town and outcompetes a small company. The intentions of the big company are to make more money - call this "Greed" if you want. But at the end of the day, society as a whole will prefer that the bigger company stay, rather than the small company. Why? Because the bigger company can offer better things at cheaper prices. At the end of the day, that's a lot more important to people than "politeness".

 

Sidenote: Every dollar you spend at Walmart is a vote of your approval of them. No matter how much you hate their business practices and bad effects on local economies, you are essentially voting for them to stay by buying their products.

[Cassynder]

So why is this topic still here?

[stonewall337]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

It's possible to be a troll without realizing it

 

Also, "rationalization" isn't necessarily bad. The most basic reason people crash is out of what you'll probably call "laziness" - but that's not inherently a bad thing. If it allows more valuable items to be created into the world, why not? It's really just a matter of perception of who "owns" the spot. There aren't a lot of solid reasons why the early bird deserves the spot. The most basic reason is simply convention.

 

Analogy: a big company moves into a small town and outcompetes a small company. The intentions of the big company are to make more money - call this "Greed" if you want. But at the end of the day, society as a whole will prefer that the bigger company stay, rather than the small company. Why? Because the bigger company can offer better things at cheaper prices. At the end of the day, that's a lot more important to people than "politeness".

 

Sidenote: Every dollar you spend at Walmart is a vote of your approval of them. No matter how much you hate their business practices and bad effects on local economies, you are essentially voting for them to stay by buying their products.

 

You will find the "polite" people on this thread arguing against allowing wal-mart into the town at all, in many instances, I would be willing to bet.

[Sly_Wizard]

its the reason I don't justify 138s crashing 110s at bandos, there only going to last a kill or two, let them have there fun, and then you can have yours. However at somewhere like dks (at peak times), if there's a level 110 hes going to last 2+ hours, so crashing him IS justified.

 

So the longer someone can last at an area, the more acceptable it is to crash them? Huh?

 

Also, sly, you cant argue with the fact that crashing creates faster kills as well as the motivation for low->mid level players to train there stats, which is POSITIVE for runescape as a whole.

 

Yes, I can.

 

1.) Crashing means faster kills for the crasher until the crashed leaves and no kills for the crashed (In fact, fewer kills then they were getting prior). Hmmm... Where's that guy who was going on about zero-sum games?

 

2.) You're somehow assuming that being crashed makes people want to train their stats. It doesn't. It makes them annoyed.

 

It's possible to be a troll without realizing it.

 

I'd like to call it wishful thinking. After all, it's a lot easier to ignore someone's counter argument when they label you a troll.

 

Also, "rationalization" isn't necessarily bad. The most basic reason people crash is out of what you'll probably call "laziness" - but that's not inherently a bad thing. If it allows more valuable items to be created into the world, why not? It's really just a matter of perception of who "owns" the spot. There aren't a lot of solid reasons why the early bird deserves the spot. The most basic reason is simply convention.

 

Ironically enough, the only people who have mentioned anything about "deserving" or "owning" spots are the people trying to rationalize crashing. No one else. What I find funny is that the actual argument-- that one player should not impede upon the gameplay of another player-- is lost upon those who are crashing. It's even more humorous because even after pointing out why something like, say, scamming could be rationalized under the exact same basis that the people here are rationalizing crashing ("It's efficient!" or "It's fun!"), said people still don't seem to get it and repeat the exact same arguments over and over and over again. You see, I can sum up the reason why people crash in three words-- because they can. There's no other reason. Everything beyond that fact is an ad hoc justification. And the fact that someone is negatively affected by crashing? Well, those people be damned. It's all about you.

 

Analogy: a big company moves into a small town and outcompetes a small company. The intentions of the big company are to make more money - call this "Greed" if you want. But at the end of the day, society as a whole will prefer that the bigger company stay, rather than the small company. Why? Because the bigger company can offer better things at cheaper prices. At the end of the day, that's a lot more important to people than "politeness".

 

So tell me, do you think that if crashing ceased to exist tomorrow that the price of, say, a BCP would raise as a result?

 

Sidenote: Every dollar you spend at Walmart is a vote of your approval of them. No matter how much you hate their business practices and bad effects on local economies, you are essentially voting for them to stay by buying their products.

 

That's great for Wal-Mart. What's that got to do with anything I typed out?

[Dragonlordjl]

Actually, if crashing ceased to exist (somehow, without making worlds instanced), the price would remain the same. The reason for that is there would still be a team in every world; therefore, no more or less BCPs would be entering the economy.

[TheAncient]

1.) Crashing means faster kills for the crasher until the crashed leaves and no kills for the crashed (In fact, fewer kills then they were getting prior). Hmmm... Where's that guy who was going on about zero-sum games?

 

A higher leveled player hopping will get no kills at all.

 

I'd like to call it wishful thinking. After all, it's a lot easier to ignore someone's counter argument when they label you a troll.

That's because you're not really arguing. A lot of the things you're saying are fundamentally opinion.

 

What I find funny is that the actual argument-- that one player should not impede upon the gameplay of another player-- is lost upon those who are crashing.

Again, that isn't an argument but a statement of opinion. An argument has a premise (if ...) and a conclusion (then...)

 

You see, I can sum up the reason why people crash in three words-- because they can. There's no other reason. Everything beyond that fact is an ad hoc justification. And the fact that someone is negatively affected by crashing? Well, those people be damned. It's all about you.

You see, I can sum up the reason why people don't leave when they get crashed in three worlds -- because they can. There's no other reason. Everything beyond that fact is an ad hoc justification. And the fact that someone is negatively effected by not leaving when youre crashed? Well, those people be damned. It's all about you.

 

So tell me, do you think that if crashing ceased to exist tomorrow that the price of, say, a BCP would raise as a result?

BCP is a bad example because Bandos is pretty much already saturated, with BCP's being produced at nearly the maximum rate. Let's for the sake of argument use Dragon hatchets. Due to the recent TT update, a lot more crashing has gone on at DK's. Look at the price of the hatchets.

 

Sidenote: Every dollar you spend at Walmart is a vote of your approval of them. No matter how much you hate their business practices and bad effects on local economies, you are essentially voting for them to stay by buying their products.

 

That's great for Wal-Mart. What's that got to do with anything I typed out?

 

"Sidenote:"

[Sir_Kurity]

one player should not impede upon the gameplay of another player

 

Your impeding on my gameplay by being there. I shall now kick you out so that you are no longer impeding on my gameplay. Woot!

 

In a game with so limited worlds, resources, etc. Its impossible for one person not to impede on another persons gameplay.

[PereGrin]

Im fairly sure sly wizard is trolling. Crashing at bosses is like waiting in line for a vending machine, only one person can use it at a time, and it is at high demand at times, but it is "public" property. If the person using it is just taking a few minutes sure, let them go and wait, you can wait for your soda (drops), but if there taking a long time, eventually there going to get told to move/shoved out of the way (crashed.)

 

Pretty sure I'm not. I just find it funny the lengths people have to go to to justify their crashing (I seriously lol inside every time someone mentions efficiency and fun). At any rate, I like your analogy. If someone is taking too long at the vending machine, push them out of the way. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

It's possible to be a troll without realizing it

 

Also, "rationalization" isn't necessarily bad. The most basic reason people crash is out of what you'll probably call "laziness" - but that's not inherently a bad thing. If it allows more valuable items to be created into the world, why not? It's really just a matter of perception of who "owns" the spot. There aren't a lot of solid reasons why the early bird deserves the spot. The most basic reason is simply convention.

 

Analogy: a big company moves into a small town and outcompetes a small company. The intentions of the big company are to make more money - call this "Greed" if you want. But at the end of the day, society as a whole will prefer that the bigger company stay, rather than the small company. Why? Because the bigger company can offer better things at cheaper prices. At the end of the day, that's a lot more important to people than "politeness".

 

Sidenote: Every dollar you spend at Walmart is a vote of your approval of them. No matter how much you hate their business practices and bad effects on local economies, you are essentially voting for them to stay by buying their products.

 

You will find the "polite" people on this thread arguing against allowing wal-mart into the town at all, in many instances, I would be willing to bet.

These polite people would prefer people spend much more on basic goods because the shops that exist do not have the revenue stream required to allow them to buy and sell in large quantities.

 

WalMart is cheap because they can provide large quantities of items to the consumer at a very small cost.

 

High level players at bandos, for example, can kill the boss very quickly, thus providing the market with a greater volume of bandos items at a faster rate. In essence, large quantities of bandos items for a fraction of the cost it would take much lower levels to obtain the same items. Keeping the price of all the armor down. This is the same effect that bots have on dragon bones.

[Dragonlordjl]

Actually, true high-level players don't do Bandos in teams, anyway. They solo it in non-LS worlds using a Yak, where it is far more profitable since you are getting 100% of the drops including the highly valuable Ourg Bones. TDs and Frost Dragons far eclipse the gp/hr you make doing a 4-man (or larger) bandos team.

[Aiel]

Actually, true high-level players don't do Bandos in teams, anyway. They solo it in non-LS worlds using a Yak, where it is far more profitable since you are getting 100% of the drops including the highly valuable Ourg Bones. TDs and Frost Dragons far eclipse the gp/hr you make doing a 4-man (or larger) bandos team.

TDs and frost dragons eclipse the gp/hr of solo bandos :rolleyes:

[Obtaurian]

Actually, true high-level players don't do Bandos in teams, anyway. They solo it in non-LS worlds using a Yak, where it is far more profitable since you are getting 100% of the drops including the highly valuable Ourg Bones. TDs and Frost Dragons far eclipse the gp/hr you make doing a 4-man (or larger) bandos team.

TDs and frost dragons eclipse the gp/hr of solo bandos :rolleyes:

 

I think solo Bandos > frost dragons (assuming you can find a world, and frost dragons are way easier) :-k , but TDs > solo Bandos for sure.

[Aiel]

Actually, true high-level players don't do Bandos in teams, anyway. They solo it in non-LS worlds using a Yak, where it is far more profitable since you are getting 100% of the drops including the highly valuable Ourg Bones. TDs and Frost Dragons far eclipse the gp/hr you make doing a 4-man (or larger) bandos team.

TDs and frost dragons eclipse the gp/hr of solo bandos :rolleyes:

 

I think solo Bandos > frost dragons (assuming you can find a world, and frost dragons are way easier) :-k , but TDs > solo Bandos for sure.

if you include kc+the cost of sups im pretty sure frost dragons are better.

[Owned_Nex]

The KC won't take too long. It isn't very significant. Bandos is better if you can solo 20+ a trip. This pretty much means Ovl, Brews, and the best equipment. Since frost dragons are ~3m/h or so, you would need to camp them for about 7-8 hours to equal a Bandos drop. Bandos droprates for the good items are in the 100-200 kill range.

[stonewall337]

The KC won't take too long. It isn't very significant. Bandos is better if you can solo 20+ a trip. This pretty much means Ovl, Brews, and the best equipment. Since frost dragons are ~3m/h or so, you would need to camp them for about 7-8 hours to equal a Bandos drop. Bandos droprates for the good items are in the 100-200 kill range.

 

Not to mention the ~1m gp/trip in bones/gp/other drops.

[Dragonlordjl]

Ourg Bones are 14k and Frost Bones are 19k. With a Yak, solo Bandos is way better than Frost Dragons, because you not only get the benefit of the bones, but also the coins/alchables/bandos drops.

[TheAncient]

Expected solo bandos killrates and trip length are often off because of crashing.

 

It's mostly the hopping, being crashed, anti-crashing, etc. that makes Bandos generally worse than DK's or frosts imo

[SirIzenhime]

frost dragons are 3m-4m an hour (maybe more) if you do it right. I've never heard of bandos being that good.