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Pro DGing


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540 replies to this topic

#1
TheAncient
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L2DG CLAN CHAT: Info Here

Hey all,

So after a recent PVP hiatus (owning W68 :shades:), I've come back to DG. Teams nowadays are pretty bad. W148/DGE is pretty much W117 now, and W117 is just... terrible. I know there are other higher level clans (which I won't mention for fear of contamination), but I'd really like to see good dungeoneering at all levels.

DG is actually probably the most fun skill in the game, yet most despise it. The problem is that there is simply a TON of misinformation regarding how to DG well. A properly run dungeon is usually pretty fun. And when I mean a "good" dungeon, I'm talking about, at the most, a 35 minute large.

I see 100+ DGers who have absolutely no idea how to rush, even telling people the wrong things.

So for all of you pro DGers out there - how can we go about solving this?

I wrote a pretty comprehensive guide about DG (http://forum.tip.it/...oneering-guide/), but it's really long and sort of unaccessable for those with short attention spans.

One thing I was thinking of was to take over the DG guide of RSWiki. Like have a few people rewrite most of it, and regularly check that idiots arent changing it back.

Youtube is another option, but I'll keep the details of that secret :thumbup:

--- Ancient
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#2
green9090
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green9090

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I don't believe there's much we can do to get everyone on the same page. The fact is that 90% of the RS population is too stupid to see that there's no advantage to doing anything other than rushing, and they'll keep seeing people who want to get through dungeons quickly as jerks who bully everyone else in the team. I can't imagine any amount of propaganda changing that- the people smart enough to get it are already doing it.
Join "DG Sweepers" Clan Chat for Dungeoneering Floors | Accepting all tipiters who are Willing to Learn |
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#3
Bladewing
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inb4 gtfo efficiency troll

i suppose you could try to teach the non-keyers to gate key doors and to explore without the keyer, not just follow him around like lemmings.

#4
TheAncient
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I don't believe there's much we can do to get everyone on the same page. The fact is that 90% of the RS population is too stupid to see that there's no advantage to doing anything other than rushing, and they'll keep seeing people who want to get through dungeons quickly as jerks who bully everyone else in the team. I can't imagine any amount of propaganda changing that- the people smart enough to get it are already doing it.


At the same time, I think there are a lot of lower levels who are willing to put in the extra effort and want to be able to run clean dungeons. But they don't really have anyone reliable to learn from other than themselves.
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#5
green9090
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But those people already have resources available if they look for it. I personally learned from your dungeoneering guide- I got back from a hiatus and was like "huh how does this skill work" and a quick search turned up your guide. It was extremely helpful by the way, thanks.

As you said, the guide is inaccessible to those with short attention spans, but these are the same people who will never be good at dungeoneering for the same reason they can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes reading a guide.
Join "DG Sweepers" Clan Chat for Dungeoneering Floors | Accepting all tipiters who are Willing to Learn |
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#6
SirIzenhime
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clans are basically the only way...you're never going to be able to tell the general mass of people the best way to do it....just look at slayer, people have been using DFS's since they came out, and many think it's the best thing to use.

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Fisher/Woodcut------Me-----Miner/crafter----Stabber----Leecher

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#7
miracleman58
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Just key yourself in w148 if you know what you are doing, Which if you are moaning about bad teams i am assuming you know what you are doing...

Make a few 105+ friends that use 148 alot and when you can get them into your team.

Get alot of skills 90+ as a keyer.

Advertise 90+ only - I insta kick anything less than 90.

Advertise Hooded only.

Sometimes you just get really bad floors - Just keep going, You will get insanely fast floors. My fastest being 27min so far with 2 people not hooded lol.



They are my tips.

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#8
Obtaurian
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Two things:

1. Like Bladewing said: inb4efficiencytrolls
2. I really don't think it's possible to get everyone on the same boat, but I think it's possible to make most people AWARE of good dungeoneering methods.

Taking control of the wiki article and making a youtube channel are both good ideas, actually. I think most people (with ADD) would be far more inclined to sit through a video than read a guide, and I'm sure that even the lowliest of noobs use the wiki.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest problems with dungeoneering teams are the personalities of the individuals. I've been on teams where I was able to explain rushing and have everyone follow directions without a problem. But, more often than not, people are going to ragequit when they die, hide keys when someone kills a cow ( :rolleyes: ), etc, etc. It must take those types of people ages to get dungeoneering experience if they're quitting every floor they're on.

I'm really hoping that warped floors get people serious about dungeoneering. I'd like to see serious clans for all levels.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.


#9
green9090
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hide keys when someone kills a cow

Wait, what?

I'd like to see serious clans for all levels.

If you made a serious DG clan for level 60 dungeoneers people would be in it for like a week or less. It's not effective to make a clan that people are just going to graduate from in a ridiculously short amount of time.
Join "DG Sweepers" Clan Chat for Dungeoneering Floors | Accepting all tipiters who are Willing to Learn |
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#10
DarkDude
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I think that if people are joining these "PUG" teams they should at least have a decent idea of how to do the standard methods of clearing a floor but really there's no way to check that and not really any way to easily teach them.

Personally I duo floors with a friend, we take our time and don't do it efficiently at all but we have fun while doing it which I think is the most important thing. I'd have no idea how to do 5 man larges and I'm sure people would shout at me for doing things wrong (such as having a Primal rapier bound as my weapon). If I decided to go down that route further down the line then I'd either go with friends until I have the hang of it (and to be honest I'd be much more likely to do that than pug it). And/or read up on how to do it beforehand just to make sure I wasn't dragging the rest of the team down too much.

#11
TheAncient
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I think that if people are joining these "PUG" teams they should at least have a decent idea of how to do the standard methods of clearing a floor but really there's no way to check that and not really any way to easily teach them.

Personally I duo floors with a friend, we take our time and don't do it efficiently at all but we have fun while doing it which I think is the most important thing. I'd have no idea how to do 5 man larges and I'm sure people would shout at me for doing things wrong (such as having a Primal rapier bound as my weapon). If I decided to go down that route further down the line then I'd either go with friends until I have the hang of it (and to be honest I'd be much more likely to do that than pug it). And/or read up on how to do it beforehand just to make sure I wasn't dragging the rest of the team down too much.


This is totally different, and your goal isn't to finish something the fastest possible. Which is fine. the problem is that for the people who do want to be fast, they don't really have any options.
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Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top

#12
DarkDude
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I think that if people are joining these "PUG" teams they should at least have a decent idea of how to do the standard methods of clearing a floor but really there's no way to check that and not really any way to easily teach them.

Personally I duo floors with a friend, we take our time and don't do it efficiently at all but we have fun while doing it which I think is the most important thing. I'd have no idea how to do 5 man larges and I'm sure people would shout at me for doing things wrong (such as having a Primal rapier bound as my weapon). If I decided to go down that route further down the line then I'd either go with friends until I have the hang of it (and to be honest I'd be much more likely to do that than pug it). And/or read up on how to do it beforehand just to make sure I wasn't dragging the rest of the team down too much.


This is totally different, and your goal isn't to finish something the fastest possible. Which is fine. the problem is that for the people who do want to be fast, they don't really have any options.


My main point was that if I went to do dungeoneering like you're talking about I would research it before hand and I think that people should do the same so they don't slow it down for other people. Which seems to be what you were referring to in the topic unless I'm mistaken?

#13
TheAncient
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My main point was that if I went to do dungeoneering like you're talking about I would research it before hand and I think that people should do the same so they don't slow it down for other people. Which seems to be what you were referring to in the topic unless I'm mistaken?


what I'm saying is that a lot of people aren't aware of these guides. they aren't really out there in the public unless you actively look for them.
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#14
ghjkl
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3 binds only
 

#15
TheAncient
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3 binds only


:-# :wall:
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#16
ghjkl
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95 dung fail
 

#17
TheAncient
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95 dung fail


nah haha ive done a few runs with 3bo members
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#18
la la la
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More people need to learn to key effectively. Arrogance makes people ragequit, not dying. Oh, and did you write this up after our floor with [that maxed person who sucked]?

lalalasig2.png


#19
Hameigh
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I would like to see videos of an amazing 5man team doing a large dungeon with narration explaining what they were doing and why along the way. It would be really cool to have the video split showing the keyer and one nonkeyer at the same time. The main problem I've seen with the couple comprehensive dungeoneering guides out there is that they cater only to high levels. The majority of w117 don't have turmoil and such. Also I'd like to see sections for those without hoods. I'm over 70 Dungeoneering without seeing a single hood.
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#20
TheAncient
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More people need to learn to key effectively. Arrogance makes people ragequit, not dying. Oh, and did you write this up after our floor with [that maxed person who sucked]?


Nah, I wrote this b/c of warped floors and mainly bc im returning to DG
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