Extremes in New Wildy

[i_trollz_u]

Soma, that extra 20-40 damage might not be much, but when you mathematically calc all possible hit combinations, you will see that the amount of extra KO's will be very significant.

 

It's like 1% and 0.1%. Might be only 0.9% difference, but the first one is 10x more likely.

 

So what? That doesn't address either of my points - if you're the "average" player, you're dead anyways against someone with good gear. And they can one-hit you either way. More likely, maybe, but Extremes are not the reason people OHKO each other. The reason lies within the weapon and the overpowered special attacks.

 

Sub 80-combat is already very biased towards pures. That does not mean it is right to boost (I have the most problems with ext range) a 48-48 dbow special to 56-56.

 

Except the average player is somewhere between level 70 and 90. As much as hanging out on Tip.It would lead you to believe, most players are NOT high leveled. Most players do NOT have multiple 99s. And most players, if they were to go into the wilderness, will be confronting pures. And yes, it's already very biased, but that's just adding to the point - it's the stats and the equipment, not the potions.

 

Also, I agree that Extreme Ranging is a problem. It's always been an oddball, since normal Ranging potions are so weak, and there's no Super to bridge the gap. I've never understood why we simply jump from normal to extreme for magic/ranged anyways. But again... why is the problem the Ranging potion and not the Dark Bow?

 

I'm sorry to say, but PVP is the main point of the wilderness. There may well be very good things in the wilderness not related to PVP, but the main point of it is to have some PVP addition. There are also many places outside of the wilderness you can use your extremes, you are by no means being forced to never use them. The chaos elemental is such a limited boss (in that it is rarely killed) that PVP has to take priority over it.

 

I'm sorry to say, but max defence is never going to be balanced with max offence in PVP simply because the risk is made much higher. With Offence, you can use one item, but for defence you need multiple. Because of this, people end up going for offence over defence.

 

Explain to me then, why Jagex has always tried to put non-PvP activities into PvP areas? Clue Scrolls. Training Spots. Monsters. Brawler Gloves. Even the planned "Wilderness Tag". Agility Course. The wilderness was never meant to be "PvP, don't come here for anything else."

 

Also, I'd love to see someone with ONLY D claws one hit me when I'm ONLY wearing divine. Heck, I'd love to see him two hit me. It's not happening. Divines are already being used in PvP, and Torva/Pernix/Virtus will be too. Good PKers don't mind high risk, because it balances out by lowering the actual chance of death.

 

Pking videos =/= normal pking. You're pretty wrong when you say divine is being used in pvp. I also guarantee you the new armor isn't going to become standard pking gear. Ever. But I'm sure its prefectly reasonable to expect people to counter extremes by risking 400M gear.

 

I'm not exactly sure why anything else is relevant, but everything else in the wild is just meant to generate targets for pkers, other than other pkers, kind of like the abyss. Also, the fact that extreme ranging is going to be broken is enough of a reason to reject all extremes on the basis of consistency.

 

Special attacks + good weapons + extremes = wtf broken

 

Special attacks + good weapons alone = interesting game with ko potential, possibly nearing broken but not completely.

 

Extremes alone = whoever has extremes wins and no skill invovled? wut? why on earth would u be advocating extremes but no special? oh wait you have 96 herb, and obviously that's all that should matter in pvp. everyone else can go [bleep] themselves. Oh yeah, an inventory of brews and overloads makes it such a fair fight to someone without extremes, especially when you take out their only ability to spec them and KO.

 

Trolling aside, i genuinely have not seen any reason that warrants itself as a "benefit" to having extremes. All you've been doing is trying to defend why overloads won't be as bad you think, but there still isn't an offensive reason to how extremes/ovl will be good for pvp, other than to satisfy the egos of rich players.

[Danqazmlp]

How is it irrelevant? To get armour which can protect you from 30m D claws (which are not the only OP offensive weapon, e.g D bow, AGS, K sword) you need to spend upwards of 600m. That means getting defence is harder than offence, making offence massively overpowered. Adding extremes would do that even more. It would be un-needed.

[brunokiller]

If PvP should take priority, then move the non-PvP out so we can use our Extremes on them when we've worked hard and invested much to be able to do these non-PvP things. Either way, it's still a benefit to allow Extremes in Wilderness.

 

Also, prices are irrelevant in my opinion, because the balancing of prices lie elsewhere. All you need to do to switch that scenario is to give Dragon Claws to the Corporeal Beast and Sigils to the Tormented Demons. Offense and defense is balanced. Monster drops and ways of procuring the items may not be, but the items themselves are balanced.

 

No one kills the chaos elemental anyways.

 

And prices do matter because introducing items that only 0.001% of the population can afford is not a viable fix.

 

I have yet to see anyone give a valid reason for why extreme potions will increase my PKing experience.

[Soma2035]

Pking videos =/= normal pking. You're pretty wrong when you say divine is being used in pvp. I also guarantee you the new armor isn't going to become standard pking gear. Ever. But I'm sure its prefectly reasonable to expect people to counter extremes by risking 400M gear.

 

I'm not exactly sure why anything else is relevant, but everything else in the wild is just meant to generate targets for pkers, other than other pkers, kind of like the abyss. Also, the fact that extreme ranging is going to be broken is enough of a reason to reject all extremes on the basis of consistency.

 

Special attacks + extremes = wtf broken

 

Special attacks alone = interesting game with ko potential, possibly nearing broken but not completely.

 

Extremes alone = whoever has extremes wins and no skill at all? wut?

 

Who said anything about PKing videos? I'm talking about people I walked past while going to the Agility arena to use up my Brawlers. I was out there for all of 15 minutes before I got PKed, and within that time period I saw three different people with Divines.

 

Also, I didn't say it's reasonable to expect people to counter extremes by risking 400M gear, I said it's reasonable to expect people to counter top-of-the-line offensive gear with top-of-the-line defensive gear. Extremes don't play into it. Take away all special attacks and all weapons better than D Scimitars, and the effect is much, much greater than taking away Extremes.

 

Yes, things in the wilderness generate targets... but they don't if there's no reason to use them. Who's honestly going to kill Hellhounds in the wilderness now when there's many spots elsewhere, and you can't use your Extremes out in the wilderness? If it weren't for Kuradel's Dungeon, I would definitely consider it for beating out the crowds. Not if Extremes aren't allowed, though.

 

And again, Chaos Elemental is a boss. Plenty of people sunk 100M into a skill they don't like because it would help them fight bosses. You're going to make a boss much more profitable and tell people that the 100M they invested to help kill it better is of no use? That's like saying you can't use your strength level in the Wilderness anymore.

 

BTW, I fail to see what's so skilled about running out there, finding someone who might not be ready, attacking him, and clicking on your special bar twice to see if he dies. Because that's really what Dragon Claw rushers do, and it works just fine for them without Extreme Potions. What's interesting about that? What's skillful? From where I sit, absolutely nothing.

[i_trollz_u]

Pking videos =/= normal pking. You're pretty wrong when you say divine is being used in pvp. I also guarantee you the new armor isn't going to become standard pking gear. Ever. But I'm sure its prefectly reasonable to expect people to counter extremes by risking 400M gear.

 

I'm not exactly sure why anything else is relevant, but everything else in the wild is just meant to generate targets for pkers, other than other pkers, kind of like the abyss. Also, the fact that extreme ranging is going to be broken is enough of a reason to reject all extremes on the basis of consistency.

 

Special attacks + extremes = wtf broken

 

Special attacks alone = interesting game with ko potential, possibly nearing broken but not completely.

 

Extremes alone = whoever has extremes wins and no skill at all? wut?

 

Who said anything about PKing videos? I'm talking about people I walked past while going to the Agility arena to use up my Brawlers. I was out there for all of 15 minutes before I got PKed, and within that time period I saw three different people with Divines.

 

Also, I didn't say it's reasonable to expect people to counter extremes by risking 400M gear, I said it's reasonable to expect people to counter top-of-the-line offensive gear with top-of-the-line defensive gear. Extremes don't play into it. Take away all special attacks and all weapons better than D Scimitars, and the effect is much, much greater than taking away Extremes.

 

Yes, things in the wilderness generate targets... but they don't if there's no reason to use them. Who's honestly going to kill Hellhounds in the wilderness now when there's many spots elsewhere, and you can't use your Extremes out in the wilderness? If it weren't for Kuradel's Dungeon, I would definitely consider it for beating out the crowds. Not if Extremes aren't allowed, though.

 

And again, Chaos Elemental is a boss. Plenty of people sunk 100M into a skill they don't like because it would help them fight bosses. You're going to make a boss much more profitable and tell people that the 100M they invested to help kill it better is of no use? That's like saying you can't use your strength level in the Wilderness anymore.

 

BTW, I fail to see what's so skilled about running out there, finding someone who might not be ready, attacking him, and clicking on your special bar twice to see if he dies. Because that's really what Dragon Claw rushers do, and it works just fine for them without Extreme Potions. What's interesting about that? What's skillful? From where I sit, absolutely nothing.

 

Dude, how is korsai's or even claws comparable in cost to divine or torva? That's exactly what you were saying when you said you wouldn't die if you wore that kind of armour when extremes came out. If you have ever engaged in a real pking fight or dm before, the only skill involves combo eating and knowing when to spec. You take out the spec, there's nothing. The person with an inv of brews and overloads is just gonna outlast the person without ovl. Simple as that... pking would be worse under your alternative. Yea rushers suck, but its better than fights that are determined why who has extremes and who doesn't. In fact the skill would come when surviving a rush and then killing them, although it becomes ridiculously hard if not impossible sometimes if you let the new potions in.

 

I still don't see any offensive reason why the potions would be good for pvp....

[Soma2035]

No one kills the chaos elemental anyways.

 

Seeing as you have resorted to flaming by calling my friends and I "no one," I think I'm just going to ignore your posts from here on as you are blatantly trolling.

 

How is it irrelevant? To get armour which can protect you from 30m D claws (which are not the only OP offensive weapon, e.g D bow, AGS, K sword) you need to spend upwards of 600m. That means getting defence is harder than offence, making offence massively overpowered. Adding extremes would do that even more. It would be un-needed.

 

It's irrelevant because the problem is the balancing in the way weapons and armors are obtained, not with the actual items themselves. The items themselves are perfectly fine - it's how we obtain the items that's the problem. And that problem falls to the way bosses work. Like I said, if Divine Sigil were dropped from Tormented Demons and Dragon Claws were dropped from Corporeal Beasts, our conversation would be along the lines of "Divine is OP, it's impossible to kill anyone, we NEED Extremes and they're not even enough."

 

The point is that the deeper issue here is the balance of how the items are obtained, not whether the items themselves are balanced. However, that's completely irrelevant to Extreme Potions, because there IS reason to use them in the Wilderness outside of PvP, and they aren't going to greatly impact the imbalance already there.

[lordkafei]

This conundrum with PvM and PvP in the same area shows exactly why a new Wilderness area should have been created.

[Quyneax]

Because (forgive me if I'm wrong) but aren't extremes already disallowed from PVP? Special attacks have always been allowed. Adding extremes would only make things worse, it has no benefit.

The current situation is only relevant to how it should be in how hard it would be to adjust. Adding extremes wouldn't take much besides special recovers, removing special attacks would be somewhat harder but still doable. I think a wilderness with everything but special attacks > a wilderness with everything besides extremes as KO potential goes.

[brunokiller]

No one kills the chaos elemental anyways.

Seeing as you have resorted to flaming by calling my friends and I "no one," I think I'm just going to ignore your posts from here on as you are blatantly trolling.

 

Is that flaming? I never knew Chaos Elemental was a popular boss. Especially not when you cannot take your top gear because of the PKers.

[Logdotzip]

Pasting what I said from a different thread, seems more relevant here:

 

I think they should allow overloads in PVP, but since they won't, how about instead they raise all levels to their super equivalents. And to 104 magic / 11-whatever ranged. I think that would be acceptable.

[Jaded]

Love the idea of extremes being allowed in high risk worlds only, solves both sides of it.

 

Can anyone tell me if ext/ovl are still allowed at corp? I know we get a new teleport but since it's technically still in wildy will it say "You can't teleport there with volatile potions in your inventory" or something like that?

[Soma2035]

No one kills the chaos elemental anyways.

Seeing as you have resorted to flaming by calling my friends and I "no one," I think I'm just going to ignore your posts from here on as you are blatantly trolling.

 

Is that flaming? I never knew Chaos Elemental was a popular boss. Especially not when you cannot take your top gear because of the PKers.

 

It's not popular because it doesn't drop anything worthwhile. Yet there are still people who kill him for fun. There are still people who kill them because they like getting their own items from bosses. Calling those people nobodies does amount to flaming in my book. Also, who says you can not take your top gear? Did you forget Day 1 of Aquanites, where entire PvP clans camped them in their best gear, ready to smash anyone who tried to PK any them or fight with them for the Aquanite spots? Did you forget that people who hunt bosses and people who PK aren't mutually exclusive, and there are plenty of people who'll be willing to go in top gear, and simply PK anyone who goes after them?

 

If you aren't trying to flame, then keep your blanket statements like "no one ever does ____" to yourself, especially when it's clear you know nothing about it at all.

[GuidesForScapers]

IMO, anyone who thinks that having extremes in PvP doesn't understand PKing at all. It would make EVERYTHING 100x harder for EVERYONE. Even those with extremes, they would be getting hit for constant 500s with whips, too.

 

Also, Grimy, they shouldn't remove special attacks because they are limited. Special attacks don't take effect throughout a whole fight, they are a split second thing. With extremes people would be constantly be hitting harder and more accurately, not just in 1 - 4 hits.

[ghjkl]

For those arguing that you can't see extremes:

 

You can't see korasi's so it should be banned

You can't see chaotics until your opponent decides to use one as a ko weapon so it should be banned

You can't see VLS or other pvp items so it should be banned.

You can't see zerker ring (i) so it should be banned

The list goes on and on.

 

Also if you can't spend 2 seconds looking up the highscores of the person you are fighting, then, well, lol

[Crossed_Body]

Dungeoneering weapons are clearly visible on a fight, and while they allow you to kill better without adding to your combat level they arent a hidden boost that could potentially 2 shot the most geared players out there

 

3 words: Chaotic Maul KO.

 

When you see it, you're already dead.

 

 

Also, this "you can't see it" could be easily fixed by a marker or animation on a potted player.

 

If you ban extremes, you should ban supers too. Sure you can buy them; But you can also buy the herblore level to make extremes. The only difference is one person spends their money on the pots, and the other spends their money on the levels.

Both are invisible boosts.

 

 

 

Also ban ancient prayers and ancient magiks; You can't visibly tell if an enemy has turmoil or ancient magiks until they attack you or turn a deflect prayer on.

 

Maybe you should ban rings too? I don't have the money to buy a berserker ring, so nobody should use one!

 

 

 

In the end, it all comes down to money; If you have it, you can get extremes. If you don't, you'll get extremely butthurt that another player has it.

[i_trollz_u]

For those arguing that you can't see extremes:

 

You can't see korasi's so it should be banned

You can't see chaotics until your opponent decides to use one as a ko weapon so it should be banned

You can't see VLS or other pvp items so it should be banned.

The list goes on and on.

 

Also if you can't spend 2 seconds looking up the highscores of the person you are fighting, then, well, lol

 

You can lose your items and all the time you spent on getting them. You don't lose your herblore lvl or ability to use the pots.

 

Seriously, if people are going to defend these potions at least post something as to why it would make the pvp experience in general better for everyone, rather than just trying to defend why it wouldn't be so bad, or making bad comparisons. Otherwise there is literally no reason why it should be implemented.

[brunokiller]

^where the poster compares use of chaotics/zerker rings etc. Do not forget that you RISK those, while you do not risk your herblore level.

 

Also, who says you can not take your top gear? Did you forget Day 1 of Aquanites, where entire PvP clans camped them in their best gear, ready to smash anyone who tried to PK any them or fight with them for the Aquanite spots? Did you forget that people who hunt bosses and people who PK aren't mutually exclusive, and there are plenty of people who'll be willing to go in top gear, and simply PK anyone who goes after them?

 

If you aren't trying to flame, then keep your blanket statements like "no one ever does ____" to yourself, especially when it's clear you know nothing about it at all.

 

People tend not to bring their max gear because it is in 50+ wilderness and multicombat. If you do, please pm me next time you're going.

And woop you lose +7 bonusses. Big deal, why does it matter if you're killing that monster for fun anyways?

[i_trollz_u]

Dungeoneering weapons are clearly visible on a fight, and while they allow you to kill better without adding to your combat level they arent a hidden boost that could potentially 2 shot the most geared players out there

 

3 words: Chaotic Maul KO.

 

When you see it, you're already dead.

 

 

Also, this "you can't see it" could be easily fixed by a marker or animation on a potted player.

 

If you ban extremes, you should ban supers too. Sure you can buy them; But you can also buy the herblore level to make extremes. The only difference is one person spends their money on the pots, and the other spends their money on the levels.

Both are invisible boosts.

 

 

 

Also ban ancient prayers and ancient magiks; You can't visibly tell if an enemy has turmoil or ancient magiks until they attack you or turn a deflect prayer on.

 

Maybe you should ban rings too? I don't have the money to buy a berserker ring, so nobody should use one!

 

 

 

In the end, it all comes down to money; If you have it, you can get extremes. If you don't, you'll get extremely butthurt that another player has it.

 

Magic is obviously shown in your cb level and its considered a cb skill even if its not accurately shown. Prayer too. And it freaking tells you in your chat if someone is using ancient prays, and even turm has animation. You can lose your ring. you can lose your maul. you can lose claws. you can lose korsai. None of these are even of the same magnitude of game breaking as extremes/ovl.

 

these comparisons are asinine and really should be stopped, as xpx and others have addressed them over and over.

[Soma2035]

^where the poster compares use of chaotics/zerker rings etc. Do not forget that you RISK those, while you do not risk your herblore level.

 

Also, who says you can not take your top gear? Did you forget Day 1 of Aquanites, where entire PvP clans camped them in their best gear, ready to smash anyone who tried to PK any them or fight with them for the Aquanite spots? Did you forget that people who hunt bosses and people who PK aren't mutually exclusive, and there are plenty of people who'll be willing to go in top gear, and simply PK anyone who goes after them?

 

If you aren't trying to flame, then keep your blanket statements like "no one ever does ____" to yourself, especially when it's clear you know nothing about it at all.

 

People tend not to bring their max gear because it is in 50+ wilderness and multicombat. If you do, please pm me next time you're going.

And woop you lose +7 bonusses. Big deal, why does it matter if you're killing that monster for fun anyways?

 

Because the fun of killing weaker bosses is how fast you can pulverize them, and being able to spam more special attacks via special restores or hitting higher factors into that.

 

And I'm not in a massive PvP clan, so I won't be doing it obviously. Tell you what, if/when RoT/VR/RSD/whatever other big PKing clan decides to camp Chaos Elemental for the new drops in their maxed gear, if I find out I'll let you know.

[SixFootOne]

^where the poster compares use of chaotics/zerker rings etc. Do not forget that you RISK those, while you do not risk your herblore level.

 

Also, who says you can not take your top gear? Did you forget Day 1 of Aquanites, where entire PvP clans camped them in their best gear, ready to smash anyone who tried to PK any them or fight with them for the Aquanite spots? Did you forget that people who hunt bosses and people who PK aren't mutually exclusive, and there are plenty of people who'll be willing to go in top gear, and simply PK anyone who goes after them?

 

If you aren't trying to flame, then keep your blanket statements like "no one ever does ____" to yourself, especially when it's clear you know nothing about it at all.

 

People tend not to bring their max gear because it is in 50+ wilderness and multicombat. If you do, please pm me next time you're going.

And woop you lose +7 bonusses. Big deal, why does it matter if you're killing that monster for fun anyways?

 

 

For what it's worth the chaos elemental may be worth killing soon.

 

"The chaos Elemental has had his drop table improved and can also drop the old PvP specific armour and weapons."

 

Quick find code: 254-255-55-62204744

 

Edit: Looks like soma beat me to it anyway :razz:

[ghjkl]

Dungeoneering weapons are clearly visible on a fight, and while they allow you to kill better without adding to your combat level they arent a hidden boost that could potentially 2 shot the most geared players out there

 

3 words: Chaotic Maul KO.

 

When you see it, you're already dead.

 

 

Also, this "you can't see it" could be easily fixed by a marker or animation on a potted player.

 

If you ban extremes, you should ban supers too. Sure you can buy them; But you can also buy the herblore level to make extremes. The only difference is one person spends their money on the pots, and the other spends their money on the levels.

Both are invisible boosts.

 

 

 

Also ban ancient prayers and ancient magiks; You can't visibly tell if an enemy has turmoil or ancient magiks until they attack you or turn a deflect prayer on.

 

Maybe you should ban rings too? I don't have the money to buy a berserker ring, so nobody should use one!

 

 

 

In the end, it all comes down to money; If you have it, you can get extremes. If you don't, you'll get extremely butthurt that another player has it.

 

Magic is obviously shown in your cb level and its considered a cb skill even if its not accurately shown. Prayer too. And it freaking tells you in your chat if someone is using ancient prays, and even turm has animation. You can lose your ring. you can lose your maul. you can lose claws. you can lose korsai. None of these are even of the same magnitude of game breaking as extremes/ovl.

 

these comparisons are asinine and really should be stopped, as xpx and others have addressed them over and over.

 

most of the time you can't see range in combat level so you don't know if someone has dragon bolts or hand cannon waiting to hit 500s-600s on you without spec

most of the time you can't see mage in combat level so you don't know if someone can tb you or freeze you with ancients or venge

[brunokiller]

For what it's worth the chaos elemental may be worth killing soon.

that is a valid point but exts should still not be able to be used in pvp battles. Good thing jagex is smart (for once, that is).

[Myu]

What's up with the biased poll, OP?

[ghjkl]

What's up with the biased poll, OP?

if you are talking about how all the no options are split up, it still doesn't matter

just look at the yes option and see if its over 50%

[i_trollz_u]

Dungeoneering weapons are clearly visible on a fight, and while they allow you to kill better without adding to your combat level they arent a hidden boost that could potentially 2 shot the most geared players out there

 

3 words: Chaotic Maul KO.

 

When you see it, you're already dead.

 

 

Also, this "you can't see it" could be easily fixed by a marker or animation on a potted player.

 

If you ban extremes, you should ban supers too. Sure you can buy them; But you can also buy the herblore level to make extremes. The only difference is one person spends their money on the pots, and the other spends their money on the levels.

Both are invisible boosts.

 

 

 

Also ban ancient prayers and ancient magiks; You can't visibly tell if an enemy has turmoil or ancient magiks until they attack you or turn a deflect prayer on.

 

Maybe you should ban rings too? I don't have the money to buy a berserker ring, so nobody should use one!

 

 

 

In the end, it all comes down to money; If you have it, you can get extremes. If you don't, you'll get extremely butthurt that another player has it.

 

Magic is obviously shown in your cb level and its considered a cb skill even if its not accurately shown. Prayer too. And it freaking tells you in your chat if someone is using ancient prays, and even turm has animation. You can lose your ring. you can lose your maul. you can lose claws. you can lose korsai. None of these are even of the same magnitude of game breaking as extremes/ovl.

 

these comparisons are asinine and really should be stopped, as xpx and others have addressed them over and over.

 

most of the time you can't see range in combat level so you don't know if someone has dragon bolts or hand cannon waiting to hit 500s-600s on you without spec

most of the time you can't see mage in combat level so you don't know if someone can tb you or freeze you with ancients or venge

 

You can see range and mage in my CB level, and quite a few others. I don't know if I'm getting trolled, but i just explained that you can lose your items.

 

Honestly if your mage/range lvl isn't shown in ur cb level they definitely aren't going to be koing you with range anyway, and magic and range are COMBAT SKILLS, whether or not they are consistently shown in your cb level is irrelevant, they were meant to be trained for use in pvp. Herblore isn't a CB skill, that's the whole point.

 

At best you might prove that the CB system needs to be readjusted, at the current moment though extremes/ovl really doesn't need to be allowed into pvp, and even if these comparisons were valid, there literally is no reason why it would mean the new potions would improve the pvp experience.