An "inside job" ?

[@Dan3HitU]

An "inside job"?

 

I'll keep it short and sweet as long topics tend to be tedious and don't get read properly, thus discussion on the topic generally reads as off topic...

 

I personally believe the recent RoW glitch (I'm using this as it's the most recent) is more of a "glitch" than met the eye, I mean, they have many, many QA (Quality Assurance - these people get paid over £20,000 a year to check the game for bugs, amongst other things obviously) guys at Jagex Ltd now, not compared to 5-10 years ago, how can a simple bug be found and exploited so quickly?

 

And for Jagex to turn around and say "slight bug, no roll back", like I said in the topic title, I believe it's more of an inside job where they let little bugs like these slide into the live game and let "friends" wealth-up on them.

 

How do you feel about it and what do you think about all this?

 

Reason for no roll back - possibility

The game is saved at 07:00 GMT, therefore a roll-back of over 6 hours game play would obviously be too far.

 

No roll back - counter

I once read in the RSOF (posted by a JMod, maybe Andrew himself even) that the game is saved before the update timer starts, meaning a possible roll back would be easily applied.

[Stev]

CLIMBING BOOTS!

 

*Cough*.

[J35u5_M4]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

 

But I think that let the bug go out maybe to make some expensive items drop, such as spirit shields. Which is why I don't think there was a rollback

[Racheya]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

[Carl]

Mark said that a roll-back is possible, but too few abused it for it to warrant a role back of the systems (Which isn't once a day that the game is "Saved", I'm sure...) and it would mean there would be two hours downtime following the roll back.

 

I can't believe there's conspiracy theories, now. That's beyond a joke.

[Stev]

Just thought of this, not really related to the topic... But did they explain why all items in your bank for that short period of time had a Drop option? That's quite the... Um... Accident?

[J35u5_M4]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

 

I didn't mean it like a JMod trading the item in game, more like the item appearing in the person's inventory, sorta like the golden cracker did

[sees_all1]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

They can modify your bank's content though, so why would they need to trade you?

 

 

Don't think it was likely an inside job, I think it probably slipped their mind. Not surprised that it was discovered so quickly though - when you have an update that modifies drops, the first thing players will do is test it out. So something that might slip under the noses of 20 people at jagex testing it for 10 hours each won't slip past 20,000 players playing 20 minutes each.

[@Dan3HitU]

Mark said that a roll-back is possible, but too few abused it for it to warrant a role back of the systems (Which isn't once a day that the game is "Saved", I'm sure...) and it would mean there would be two hours downtime following the roll back.

 

I can't believe there's conspiracy theories, now. That's beyond a joke.

Sadly it's not up to Mark to decide whether a roll should commence or not any more, they've done a few roll backs before due to bugs and glitches.

 

One bug I remember was when there wasn't actually a Warriors Guild lol.

[Stev]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

They can modify your bank's content though, so why would they need to trade you?

 

 

Don't think it was likely an inside job, I think it probably slipped their mind. Not surprised that it was discovered so quickly though - when you have an update that modifies drops, the first thing players will do is test it out. So something that might slip under the noses of 20 people at jagex testing it for 10 hours each won't slip past 20,000 players playing 20 minutes each.

And the QA didn't think to try it at the monster with one of the highest valued drop tables? o_O. How exactly did they test it... Killing cows, goblins, and possibly if they were too lazy... Steel dragons?

[@Dan3HitU]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

They can modify your bank's content though, so why would they need to trade you?

That's true, some guy got sacked a few years back for "snooping" into players bank accounts, my account was one of them, literally on MSN I was being told exactly (to the number) what was in my bank by some guy and I'd not released a recent bank account picture at the time.

 

Edit: The same guy also leaked information about what can only be described now as StellarDawn.

[Helm_Lardar]

Just thought of this, not really related to the topic... But did they explain why all items in your bank for that short period of time had a Drop option? That's quite the... Um... Accident?

It wasn't an accident. The idea was to increase functionality, but because dropping from the bank worked differently from usual it became possible to obtain multiple items of certain peices of content, most commonly the god capes. They didn't like that, and couldn't be bothered to fix it, so they got rid of the button.

 

On topic: Nah. Although personally, I think there's a chance they wanted to lower the price of spirit shields, so they could buy one themselves...yeah right :rolleyes: .

[Sir_Squab]

Yeah, I really think it's dumb to think they would do something so obvious to increase the wealth of particularl players when they could easily do something a lot more subtle if they wanted to.

 

On the one hand, 20000 players playing for 20 minutes adds up to a lot more time then 20 testers could realistically test for; on the other hand, ls/cs'ing Corp really doesn't seem that far fetched. Idk.

 

Does seem odd that they wouldn't test it, but calling it an inside job is just ridiculous.

 

And if they wanted to lower the price of spirit shields, why not just nerf the drop rate?

[@Dan3HitU]

I don't think they would let bugs to go out to help 'friends' they could just make items appear in their account without being so public...

JMods can't trade players though, so even though they can spawn whatever inv they want, they can't trade it.

They can modify your bank's content though, so why would they need to trade you?

 

 

Don't think it was likely an inside job, I think it probably slipped their mind. Not surprised that it was discovered so quickly though - when you have an update that modifies drops, the first thing players will do is test it out. So something that might slip under the noses of 20 people at jagex testing it for 10 hours each won't slip past 20,000 players playing 20 minutes each.

And the QA didn't think to try it at the monster with one of the highest valued drop tables? o_O. How exactly did they test it... Killing cows, goblins, and possibly if they were too lazy... Steel dragons?

They said it wasn't just that one monster, and that it was several boss monsters...

 

Surely if you were testing something that can change the probability of a drop on any monster you'd initially think; boss monsters and go test that right?

[Obtaurian]

You're giving Jagex way too much credit. They simply neglected to test the ROW on the monsters it'd be used on most. Pure stupidity.

[Carl]

Chances are they did test it with the boss monsters, but not with a LS/CS on apparently. Or else something broke while they were updating the system.

[Mylez]

It's an interesting idea.

 

I've heard of people saying it could also be to manipulate prices, rather than for "friends" to benefit. But both are equally wrong, lol.

[Obtaurian]

Chances are they did test it with the boss monsters, but not with a LS/CS on apparently. Or else something broke while they were updating the system.

 

Testing it without LS/CS is still completely moronic. Once upon a time I was more lenient and understanding when Jagex made mistakes, but it's quite apparent to me that they are truly disconnected from their own game. The ROW is specifically programmed to not work when using LS/CS, so why wouldn't they test it to make sure? It's not exactly a complicated item. They literally had a small handful of things to test, and they failed to do that.

[haqiang]

A mistake like this could get you fired from a job in industry, I really doubt anyone would risk their job for the benefit of couple hundred million gps.

 

Bugs to exist when you program, it is unavoidable, because now days all software/programming is based on layers and layers of abstraction that sometimes just break down at the lower level, the only way to fix it is really to run it over and over again, and patch it when it breaks.

[Jimmyw3000]

it's quite possible that the teams testing had no idea row didnt work with LS/CS, and didnt receive any indication of it activating at corp.

 

They probably just kept telling the coding team to increase the frequency of rare drops at corp, until it reached ~100% with ROW

[@Dan3HitU]

A mistake like this could get you fired from a job in industry, I really doubt anyone would risk their job for the benefit of couple hundred million gps.

 

Bugs to exist when you program, it is unavoidable, because now days all software/programming is based on layers and layers of abstraction that sometimes just break down at the lower level, the only way to fix it is really to run it over and over again, and patch it when it breaks.

Yes, but they run the update on several computers well before it even goes "live".

[Stev]

A mistake like this could get you fired from a job in industry, I really doubt anyone would risk their job for the benefit of couple hundred million gps.

 

Bugs to exist when you program, it is unavoidable, because now days all software/programming is based on layers and layers of abstraction that sometimes just break down at the lower level, the only way to fix it is really to run it over and over again, and patch it when it breaks.

Yes, but they run the update on several computers well before it even goes "live".

Being an ex-games developer, before we released content we tested every aspect of it... Whether it was supposed to work with it or not (Referring to the comment about it not supposed to work with LS/CS). It was a different style of online gaming (3D futuristic warfare), but the idea remains the same. Afterall, it takes what... All but 5 minutes for them to do a test Bandos run, a test Corporeal Beast run, a test Nex run? The idea that none of them thought, "Let's try LS/CS," just says that their QA team needs to be fired for people with IQs above that of a door knob. So, it was either complete laziness or complete stupidity. Either way, bravo Jagex. Bravo. -_-

[Grimy_Bunyip]

A mistake like this could get you fired from a job in industry, I really doubt anyone would risk their job for the benefit of couple hundred million gps.

 

Bugs to exist when you program, it is unavoidable, because now days all software/programming is based on layers and layers of abstraction that sometimes just break down at the lower level, the only way to fix it is really to run it over and over again, and patch it when it breaks.

Yes, but they run the update on several computers well before it even goes "live".

we can't prove it, but i highly suspect that a few jagex employees exploited it.

 

I recall mod andrew talking a long time ago (like 7 years ago) about corruption within jagex.

About how some Jmods kept a large stash of rares for themselves after holiday, and how he was aware that some of these Jmods would alch said rares for fun occasionally.

 

but as for more current events, i have no evidence.

[Stev]

A mistake like this could get you fired from a job in industry, I really doubt anyone would risk their job for the benefit of couple hundred million gps.

 

Bugs to exist when you program, it is unavoidable, because now days all software/programming is based on layers and layers of abstraction that sometimes just break down at the lower level, the only way to fix it is really to run it over and over again, and patch it when it breaks.

Yes, but they run the update on several computers well before it even goes "live".

we can't prove it, but i highly suspect that a few jagex employees exploited it.

 

I recall mod andrew talking a long time ago (like 7 years ago) about corruption within jagex.

About how some Jmods kept a large stash of rares for themselves after holiday, and how he was aware that some of these Jmods would alch said rares for fun occasionally.

 

but as for more current events, i have no evidence.

Well c'mon now. Do you expect people who know about these updates to not use it to their own advantage? For example, say they were to update Elysian Spirit Shields. Wouldn't you expect the employees aware of this update to buy one or two for themselves? Or do you expect them to wait for the update and buy them as everyone else would just hearing of the update?

[BloodAngel]

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least partially deliberate to try and lower their price, the idea was thrown around a bit when there was the MTK 'glitch' back in August/September last year when people got millions of gp worth of herbs and seeds a few weeks before BXP weekend.

Of course they could just have bad QA, the RoW update was probably far more an oversight than the MTK one since the update that caused the MTK glitch didn't directly effect it I don't think (Elite Clues or Court Summons I think?)