Infinite Gold Glitch

[Alphanos]

BTW, just to link together some previous explanations: although a cashpile with -2 coins would not stay "stuck" as -2 even if you could withdraw large amounts from it, that is exactly the expected behaviour if he was using a client-side memory editor like Cheat Engine to make it look like he had -2 coins...

[Logdotzip]

Jagex filed a claim on the video.

 

Ah well, admittedly I thought it was real the first couple hours. He certainly caused a fuss, at least for a little.

 

I guess this can be locked now, don't see much left, discussion wise.

[Salad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmMRhL_YrYk

 

Video made by erikogjoa, a famous bug abuser on YouTube.

 

This particular is a clip of erikogjoa performing what a 'glitch' with cheat engine, to show that it is easily possible to fake glitches, but the main part of the video is the description, which I quoted here:

 

I bolded the parts I found interesting.

 

A few days ago, Svew uploaded a video of himself duping GP in RuneScape. A huge discussion was made, and some people believed in the infinite coins, but others didn't.

 

I have changed my video-description massivly after recieving a couple messages from Svew.

 

The purposal of this video was to make people aware of something that has been discussed a lot lately, and also to show that glitches / bugs can easily be faked. Still, there is a huge difference between a client-sided, fake bug and a real bug.

 

What I have done in my video is purely Cheat Engine and some editing in Sony Vegas. In Svew's video, (quoted by Svew himself) he didn't use any software such as Cheat Engine; If the GP were cheat engined, he would not have been able to withdraw multiple 2-bill piles from the same GP pile and use them in the GE/trade without having modified the clip, which he clearly didn't, as you could see by the use of his hand-held camera.

 

In this video, I'm showing you that glitches CAN actually be faked, as I'm using Cheat Engine to reprodouce a worse version of what Svew did. (Notice how I capitalized "CAN"; there may be glitches that seem unbelieveable and fake that are actually real..)

 

Even with a good attempt of editing and faking my video, I know my video is A LOT less convincing than Svew's orginal video. I'm NOT saying Svew's video was fake, I'm neutral in this discussion.

 

I'm not going to lie to my viewers; Svew is absolutely right with what he's saying about my video in the comment section. I never claimed my video to be real, it's basically just an alternative way of making a video like Svew's, IF the bug was fake.

 

Of course people will start wondering when an ultra-major bug is posted to public, and I don't blame people for finding flaws in Svew's video as well. There are several questions we could have asked, but for now, we'll have our own opinions, until more evidence is revealed. (If possible, I'll make a FAQ later, with Svew's answers to the different questions)

 

As I said, I'm neutral in this discussion, and I'm not trying to dizz Svew in any way. I respect him as a Bug Abuser, and you can find his YouTube channel at:

http://youtube.com/SvewTheHax

 

Several people, including JaGex moderators and members of 0sba, claim that the bug performed is Client-Sided. Svew himself disagrees of course, and claims that the video is real. Then we can also start wondering; would JaGex remove a video that's consisting a fake, client-sided bug?

 

Svew's video got removed from YouTube by Jagex Limited on April the 19th, 2011, but I believe you can still find the video on YouTube, thanks to hackers who copied it.

 

Quoted from Svew: "Everything you do in-game is first checked server side before going through. The only way you could bypass this is if you literally hacked the game, which I haven't, so the only explanation left is that the bug is real."

 

Yeah guys, nothing is impossible. For now, it's up to you whether to believe it or not.

 

~ Erik og Joa

 

Of course, the theory saying he recorded the video, edited it, exported it, played it in fullscreen and recorded it with his camera is still possible.

[Alphanos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmMRhL_YrYk

 

Video made by erikogjoa, a famous bug abuser on YouTube.

 

This particular is a clip of erikogjoa performing what a 'glitch' with cheat engine, to show that it is easily possible to fake glitches, but the main part of the video is the description, which I quoted here:

 

I bolded the parts I found interesting.

 

[hide=Long Quote]

A few days ago, Svew uploaded a video of himself duping GP in RuneScape. A huge discussion was made, and some people believed in the infinite coins, but others didn't.

 

I have changed my video-description massivly after recieving a couple messages from Svew.

 

The purposal of this video was to make people aware of something that has been discussed a lot lately, and also to show that glitches / bugs can easily be faked. Still, there is a huge difference between a client-sided, fake bug and a real bug.

 

What I have done in my video is purely Cheat Engine and some editing in Sony Vegas. In Svew's video, (quoted by Svew himself) he didn't use any software such as Cheat Engine; If the GP were cheat engined, he would not have been able to withdraw multiple 2-bill piles from the same GP pile and use them in the GE/trade without having modified the clip, which he clearly didn't, as you could see by the use of his hand-held camera.

 

In this video, I'm showing you that glitches CAN actually be faked, as I'm using Cheat Engine to reprodouce a worse version of what Svew did. (Notice how I capitalized "CAN"; there may be glitches that seem unbelieveable and fake that are actually real..)

 

Even with a good attempt of editing and faking my video, I know my video is A LOT less convincing than Svew's orginal video. I'm NOT saying Svew's video was fake, I'm neutral in this discussion.

 

I'm not going to lie to my viewers; Svew is absolutely right with what he's saying about my video in the comment section. I never claimed my video to be real, it's basically just an alternative way of making a video like Svew's, IF the bug was fake.

 

Of course people will start wondering when an ultra-major bug is posted to public, and I don't blame people for finding flaws in Svew's video as well. There are several questions we could have asked, but for now, we'll have our own opinions, until more evidence is revealed. (If possible, I'll make a FAQ later, with Svew's answers to the different questions)

 

As I said, I'm neutral in this discussion, and I'm not trying to dizz Svew in any way. I respect him as a Bug Abuser, and you can find his YouTube channel at:

http://youtube.com/SvewTheHax

 

Several people, including JaGex moderators and members of 0sba, claim that the bug performed is Client-Sided. Svew himself disagrees of course, and claims that the video is real. Then we can also start wondering; would JaGex remove a video that's consisting a fake, client-sided bug?

 

Svew's video got removed from YouTube by Jagex Limited on April the 19th, 2011, but I believe you can still find the video on YouTube, thanks to hackers who copied it.

 

Quoted from Svew: "Everything you do in-game is first checked server side before going through. The only way you could bypass this is if you literally hacked the game, which I haven't, so the only explanation left is that the bug is real."

 

Yeah guys, nothing is impossible. For now, it's up to you whether to believe it or not.

 

~ Erik og Joa

[/hide]

 

Of course, the theory saying he recorded the video, edited it, exported it, played it in fullscreen and recorded it with his camera is still possible.

 

While I've never attempted to use Cheat Engine on Runescape (it would be pointless, except to produce fakes), I have enough knowledge of it to say that most of the things Svew showed could be faked using it. Bear in mind that this is all based upon the idea of Svew first recording things with an on-screen recorder, then playing it back and camming the playback.

 

Example: Svew can make his bank show just about any icons/numbers he wants using Cheat Engine (though the items wouldn't be real). He can modify his cashpile to display as -2 coins. I suspect he'd need at least one real partyhat for when he equipped it and ran around, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cheat Engine could be used to trick the client into displaying and rendering a partyhat on your character's head, regardless of what the actual head slot item was.

 

The big thing he's claiming proves it wasn't client side is the repeated cash withdrawal, but actually Cheat Engine could probably fake that too. How? Modify the client-side memory which parses/stores how much money you typed in that you want to withdraw. I.E. he types in "2000m" to withdraw, but Cheat Engine has locked that variable to 2000, so the server actually receives a message to withdraw only 2k from his cashpile - no problem. Then other Cheat Engine edits make that 2k look like 2B on his client-side screen. Similar for putting the offers into the GE - he types "1000M", but the actual request sent to the server is just 1k, and he edits it client side to show on his screen as if it was 2B. When he's trading player-to-player to purchase a partyhat, he could use the same trick if the other player was in on it, or he could be buying the partyhat with real cash of any amount, including a fair price.

 

TLDR: With Cheat Engine running on the client side, just because you see him type in "2000M" on screen, that doesn't mean that's what the server is actually doing. Cheat Engine can intercept and modify the request after he's typed it, but before it reaches the server, so that it will only ask the server to do things that would actually work. Similarly, the info sent back from the server could be modified before rendering on the client screen.

[WolfieMario]

@Salad: If I recall, he only withdrew 2 piles of 2000M. If Svew did glitch and had -2 gp (which some people have claimed possible), and the game let him withdraw from a -2 gp pile, then in theory he could withdraw up to two max cash piles from the -2 gp before it's depleted. However, under that theory, the -2 gp would go down to lower negatives until it hit -2,147,483,648, and then wrap around back to regular positive cash (starting with a max cashpile after withdrawing a single gp from the big negative pile). That's simply how integers in Java work, and that's what Jagex uses.

 

If Svew used Cheatengine, it's entirely possible that he did have a legit -2gp pile, but also had Cheatengine make the pile look like it stayed -2gp. That means that to us it looks like infinite cash, because he withdrew 4000M from the pile without it changing at all. In reality though, it would have changed, and without Cheatengine on, we'd see it go first from -2 to -2000M (really -2,000,000,002gp) at the first withdrawal, and then from -2000M to 294M (294,967,294gp) when the second withdrawal was made.

 

So now my theory is that Svew combined a real glitch with Cheatengine to produce a result neither alone could do. The 1000 Santa hats, as Alphanos mentioned, would have been infeasible based on when he said he found the glitch - in reality that would be one santa hat (or maybe a few more), Cheatengine'd to seem like they're much more. There was probably also only one of each partyhat and whatever other rares we saw in the vid. I recall someone mentioning that Svew and crew are incredibly rich from staking, so it's entirely possible that Svew and some friends pooled wealth into the account to make this vid possible. Notice that this didn't happen before free trade came back - to make the glitch, Svew had to have a lot of capital that could be transferred to a placeholder account. If they really did have billions, then this would make it entirely possible.

 

I'm betting the glitch they used was, as some people here mentioned is possible, an overflow that allowed a cashpile to rollover into the negatives. By combining two maxed piles, you would have exactly -2gp. That would explain why 4000M could be withdrawn from it as well. The glitch isn't infinite cash and didn't generate any money to begin with.

 

Another possibility, if it seems too outlandish for Svew and his friends to pile one of every rare onto that account (plus several real blue phats) is that some of the rares weren't really rares. There has been someone showing off a client-side hack that swaps models, creating the illusion that people are wearing fake/unreleased items, and also faking the inventory icons. Basically it replaces one item, visually, with another. Thus, for all we know, all the rares, even the blue party hats, could have been other, meaningless items (e.g. the blue phats could have been swapped from tiaras or any other head item). I'm not sure, but can Cheatengine change string values? If so, the names of the items could have also been faked using Cheatengine (or any similar program), meaning that we'd have no way of telling that they're fake.

 

tl;dr Cheatengine made the pile look like it stayed -2gp. No money was created, and at least 4,000,000,001gp had to be used to pull this trick off. The blue partyhats (including the one he wears) and other rares in the bank were really other items, but the models were swapped with a client-side cache editor, and cheatengine changed their names and amounts. The 4000M you saw was real, but the green phat wasn't necessarily real. The guy who gave the phat was in on it.

 

...At least, that's what I believe now.

 

EDIT: Btw I didn't see Alphanos's post above until I posted this. Alphanos, your theory also makes sense. If it turns out Cheatengine can't swap models (and bank/inv icons are models), though, it doesn't matter because other client-side hacks definitely have.

Edited April 20, 2011 by WolfieMario

[Stev]

Another possibility, if it seems too outlandish for Svew and his friends to pile one of every rare onto that account (plus several real blue phats) is that some of the rares weren't really rares. There has been someone showing off a client-side hack that swaps models, creating the illusion that people are wearing fake/unreleased items, and also faking the inventory icons. Basically it replaces one item, visually, with another. Thus, for all we know, all the rares, even the blue party hats, could have been other, meaningless items (e.g. the blue phats could have been swapped from tiaras or any other head item). I'm not sure, but can Cheatengine change string va

The names do not need to be faked. After you switch the model values using CE and pull up items kept on death, all the text, even the examines and right click menus, switch to what the new model is.

[WolfieMario]

Another possibility, if it seems too outlandish for Svew and his friends to pile one of every rare onto that account (plus several real blue phats) is that some of the rares weren't really rares. There has been someone showing off a client-side hack that swaps models, creating the illusion that people are wearing fake/unreleased items, and also faking the inventory icons. Basically it replaces one item, visually, with another. Thus, for all we know, all the rares, even the blue party hats, could have been other, meaningless items (e.g. the blue phats could have been swapped from tiaras or any other head item). I'm not sure, but can Cheatengine change string va

The names do not need to be faked. After you switch the model values using CE and pull up items kept on death, all the text, even the examines and right click menus, switch to what the new model is.

Wow, I didn't imagine Cheatengine could take care of things so perfectly :blink:

[Trey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmMRhL_YrYk

 

What a poorly made fake.

[Andy]

Lol why is this still open? It's a fake made to get people to look at his guide (which has a keylogger on it probably).

[brainymidget]

I don't understand why people think it is any harder to fake a video if it is filmed by hand. All you have to do is film your screen with a screen-recorder, do the editing, and then just play it back on your computer and film that with a camera. Makes it no harder to fake at all.

[Assume Nothing]

Damn, I missed the video. Apparently it got flagged by JaGex for copyright...

[Salad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRrGs1HF-e4

 

The original re-uploaded by some nowhere trying to make money off of it for those that missed it.

[Jackie_Clay]

I am very relieved this was found to be a fake. I am already disappointed enough with how long it takes me to gain GP in comparison to Pkers and stakers.

[Stev]

I am very relieved this was found to be a fake. I am already disappointed enough with how long it takes me to gain GP in comparison to Pkers and stakers.

Simple solution: Stake.

[reddawn509]

I am very relieved this was found to be a fake. I am already disappointed enough with how long it takes me to gain GP in comparison to Pkers and stakers.

Simple solution: Stake.

 

Inb4cleaned

[Raee]

 

Not sure how I found this but its like a year old lol.

[Golvellius]

Whats dumber than bug abuse?

Pretending that you could abuse bugs.

[captainpoet]

Obviously fake. Reason #1 being the coin examine. Also reason #2 how they done the filming...there would be no need to use an old school camera on it when there is software you can down from the Runescape site to do the filming...thus what they done is tried to make it look worse to make people think that it's all actually legit...an excellent way to make people go to your website so you can get a few keyloggers on them.

[@Dan3HitU]

I know I'm very late on the matter but I'd of said it was fake right from the start, simply because if it was real the person would have given their friends billions as there would be no way Jagex would dare roll the game back several days.

 

Also, if it was real they would have simply bought countless amounts of armour, weapons, runes and everything.

[WolfieMario]

Obviously fake. Reason #1 being the coin examine. Also reason #2 how they done the filming...there would be no need to use an old school camera on it when there is software you can down from the Runescape site to do the filming...thus what they done is tried to make it look worse to make people think that it's all actually legit...an excellent way to make people go to your website so you can get a few keyloggers on them.

Well, I'm not entirely sure the coin examine proves its fakeness (I believe the video's fake, but not because of the examine). The examine changes based on how many coins you have. If you don't have enough, it will just say "Lovely money!", but past a certain amount it will say "[Amount] x coins.". However, since -2 isn't within the specified range for "Lovely money!", it would try the other examine. It's possible that since -2 is below the number that normally uses that examine, it doesn't try to get the item quantity, leaving a blank for the quantity, resulting in " x coins.". Again, this is just a theory, but knowing programming, it isn't at all that unlikely.

 

Also, he originally filmed it with a screen recorder, but people complained that it could be edited that way, so he filmed again with a camera (not that that prevents it from being edited).

And where on RuneScape's site can you download software to film? Please point me to that download, because I've never heard of Jagex providing a screen recorder.

 

Also, Svew never told anyone to go to any websites. Svew and crew did it for the "glory" and the views, not to hack accounts. It was other people who stole Svew's vid and claimed they had guides on how to do it (and their links lead to keyloggers). But stealing accounts wasn't the reason the video was originally made :roll:

[That_Brown_Kid]

Lol runescape is going to turn into Zimbabwescape now.

[GuidesForScapers]

I'm sure Jagex frequently takes down fake videos.

[Alphanos]

I'm sure Jagex frequently takes down fake videos.

 

Jagex wouldn't want people to panic if the video is real. They also wouldn't want people to panic if it is fake. If there's one thing this thread shows us, it's that a high-quality fake like this is quickly believed and generates quite a bit of panic among those viewing it. Even after half a dozen methods of producing this fake have been pointed out, there are still people showing up and saying this will turn Runescape into Zimbabwe.

 

The fact that Jagex wants to avoid panic is no evidence of the video being real. If anything, there's even more reason to prevent baseless panic than legitimate panic.

[Thai_tong]

I didnt get to see the vid before it was removed but it sounds like he was withdrawing negative cash from his bank and that made the cash in his bank increase. I tried that in 2007 and it didn't work. There may have been an update since that caused the bug but it's unlikely.

[Alphanos]

I didnt get to see the vid before it was removed but it sounds like he was withdrawing negative cash from his bank and that made the cash in his bank increase. I tried that in 2007 and it didn't work. There may have been an update since that caused the bug but it's unlikely.

 

In the video, he had -2 coins pre-banked, and was able to withdraw 2B without changing the amount in his bank (still -2). Everything else in the video was attempting to "prove" that he could withdraw 2B from his -2 an unlimited number of times.

 

As has been discussed earlier in the thread, there are a number of ways to fake this. Someone posted the idea of a glitch would would allow combining two max cashpiles into 4+B, which would then appear in-game as -2, and I posted a theory which would allow faking everything in the video without any glitches at all.