The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Rock Hard]

Thanks homer, that would explain it's weighting.

 

Well, without defence, you would get 1-hitted time after time, so I'd say it's pretty important.

 

Heh, perhaps. Wonder if there's some magic armour rating that lets you survive a single hit or so with prayers up, long enough to rush the lowbies.

[Leon S]

I wonder if we'll finally get an update tomorrow.

[Gemini]

I'm been playing since RSC. I haven't maxed, I'm not rich, I've never rage quit due to any update at all in RuneScape history..

 

I'm afraid of this Combat Update, and myself, along with a couple of friends who have played with me the entire time of my RuneScape career agree, that we may not play after the update. The greatest thing about RS was the gameplay, storylines, and great adventures and kills with friends. People had an uproar about Free Trade and the Wilderness, until they brought it back. This update will kill Pures, Zerkers, and more. Sure, the graphics are decent, but it'll turn RuneScape into the same thing as EVERY other MMORPG on the internet. Might as well go play WoW or StarCraft...

[Deletion]

To be honest. At the moment we have no idea how this update will effect different kinds of pures, I imagine Zerkers are going to still be amazing. Secondly; there's more to Runescape than combat, so it won't be like "EVERY other MMORPG on the internet". Lastly; StarCraft is not even in the same genre so I don't see how that's relevant.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Heh, perhaps. Wonder if there's some magic armour rating that lets you survive a single hit or so with prayers up, long enough to rush the lowbies.

Protect prayers only reduce damage by 50% now against both NPCs and players, so you can probably survive the initial opening attack :P

 

If you want to get hold of LP boosts without defence levels, I believe the third-age druidic set offers tier 65 boosts, requiring only 65 prayer to use. Of course it's insanely expensive too.

[Gemini]

To be honest. At the moment we have no idea how this update will effect different kinds of pures, I imagine Zerkers are going to still be amazing. Secondly; there's more to Runescape than combat, so it won't be like "EVERY other MMORPG on the internet". Lastly; StarCraft is not even in the same genre so I don't see how that's relevant.

The Starcraft thing was because of the platform type of thing. Dunno how to explain what I'm saying thoroughly. Zerkers should be ok, but overall pures, I don't see much of a life for them. And this is literally goin' to ruin the game.. Next they'll up level caps to 120 all skills.

[Unknown_Warrior]

This event was an excellent showcase of how unready this EoC actually is.

 

- Polypore staff not working, forcing me to change it.

- PITIFUL LP boosts on Void killing me two times.

- Switching combat styles is a huge nightmare (Akrisae; almost died twice in FULL NEX gear)

- The ability spamming and its visual effects makes my processor cry

- The head bopping thing for Void melee helm not yet fixed

- The protection prayer nerf is a nightmare.

- The ability book is a pain to navigate through.

 

God, this was just a dreadful event. I can't see this thing coming out in a month in its current state.

[J35u5_M4]

This event was an excellent showcase of how unready this EoC actually is.

 

- Polypore staff not working, forcing me to change it.

- PITIFUL LP boosts on Void killing me two times.

- Switching combat styles is a huge nightmare (Akrisae; almost died twice in FULL NEX gear)

- The ability spamming and its visual effects makes my processor cry

- The head bopping thing for Void melee helm not yet fixed

- The protection prayer nerf is a nightmare.

- The ability book is a pain to navigate through.

 

God, this was just a dreadful event. I can't see this thing coming out in a month in its current state.

 

Polypore not having its own spell is not a bug.

Why navigate through the ability book? There's a reason why you can quick switch between ability tabs.

Prayer making you totally invulnerable was a very poor concept, better to have it reduce a huge chunk of damage but still receive some.

Switching combat styles; why is it such a nightmare? Swap gear in inventory then just swap the ability tab to the corresponding attack style.

Now about the others you're probably right.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Prayer making you totally invulnerable was a very poor concept, better to have it reduce a huge chunk of damage but still receive some.

Tell that to Akrisae, miserable wretch won't let go of his 100% protection prayer :(

 

Switching between ability tabs also suffers from server response time, so you can't just Shift+2 and hit an ability, gotta wait for 0.6 or 1.2s to get to your other action bar. The ability book doesn't suffer from this delay because the interface is all client-side, but it's a nightmare to navigate compared to the very trim magic book in the live game.

[Leon S]

I'm almost scared to ask... Have there been any changes this weekend?

[Sir_Squab]

I'm been playing since RSC. I haven't maxed, I'm not rich, I've never rage quit due to any update at all in RuneScape history..

 

I'm afraid of this Combat Update, and myself, along with a couple of friends who have played with me the entire time of my RuneScape career agree, that we may not play after the update. The greatest thing about RS was the gameplay, storylines, and great adventures and kills with friends. People had an uproar about Free Trade and the Wilderness, until they brought it back. This update will kill Pures, Zerkers, and more. Sure, the graphics are decent, but it'll turn RuneScape into the same thing as EVERY other MMORPG on the internet. Might as well go play WoW or StarCraft...

To be honest. At the moment we have no idea how this update will effect different kinds of pures, I imagine Zerkers are going to still be amazing. Secondly; there's more to Runescape than combat, so it won't be like "EVERY other MMORPG on the internet". Lastly; StarCraft is not even in the same genre so I don't see how that's relevant.

The Starcraft thing was because of the platform type of thing. Dunno how to explain what I'm saying thoroughly. Zerkers should be ok, but overall pures, I don't see much of a life for them. And this is literally goin' to ruin the game.. Next they'll up level caps to 120 all skills.

 

What I think when I read your posts:

 

http://tvtropes.org/...gedItNowItSucks

 

http://tvtropes.org/...n.RuinedFOREVER

 

This event was an excellent showcase of how unready this EoC actually is.

 

- Polypore staff not working, forcing me to change it.

- PITIFUL LP boosts on Void killing me two times.

- Switching combat styles is a huge nightmare (Akrisae; almost died twice in FULL NEX gear)

- The ability spamming and its visual effects makes my processor cry

- The head bopping thing for Void melee helm not yet fixed

- The protection prayer nerf is a nightmare.

- The ability book is a pain to navigate through.

 

God, this was just a dreadful event. I can't see this thing coming out in a month in its current state.

I agree, I can't see this being ready in a month.

[Alg]

In his defense, a lot of it does suck. How much it will suck in the future depends on when they actually release it and how flexible they'll be with certain changes.

 

Akrisae in the barrows is particularly broken, for example. He's 115, but will drain more of your food than the other six brothers combined.

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbf I think a lot of what people are labelling as 'wrong' or 'not working' is just people being ignorant of changes and/or relying to much on old methods (and jumping to old method not working/being as effective = wrong opposed to dealing with the changes and working out new methods). For example, Unknown Warrior's List:

 

- Polypore staff not working, forcing me to change it. - Polypore staff IS working they intentional removed it's spell. This does not show the beta is unready, it just shows you are not fully informed on some changes and have not adapted to them.

 

- PITIFUL LP boosts on Void killing me two times. - Void has always been an armour that sacrifices defence for offence, it just happens in EoC defence (and thus lp boosts) are far more important which has narrowed void's useful applications. Again this isn't something being un-ready it's just a change EoC has brought you need to adapt too.

 

- Switching combat styles is a huge nightmare (Akrisae; almost died twice in FULL NEX gear) - This does have some issues, but they intentionally hindered style swapping and it's not all that hard if you set -up 3 bars 1 for each style with the armours bound in first few slots etc.

 

- The ability spamming and its visual effects makes my processor cry - so turn down graphics or get a better computer, not really jagex's problem.

 

- The head bopping thing for Void melee helm not yet fixed

 

- The protection prayer nerf is a nightmare. - Yes it's a nightmare IF you try to rely on old fashioned tactics and yes it takes getting used to, but there's nothing wrong with it. It's just another change EoC has brought that we need to adapt to.

 

- The ability book is a pain to navigate through. - Very true but Jmods have already said they are looking into that one, so hopefully it won;t be by launch

 

Certainly a lot of monsters are fudged atm, but thats part of why they are doing these targeted events to help highlight them, like last weekend highlighted that portals in Pc were going down stupidly fast (even for crowded pc) this weekend will highlight where barrows brothers are fudged

[Sir_Squab]

In his defense, a lot of it does suck. How much it will suck in the future depends on when they actually release it and how flexible they'll be with certain changes.

 

He hates it because it apparently makes the game similar to every other mmo on the market and because it ruins pures. These aren't good reasons for hating it.

 

You know why so many mmo on the market as similar? Because there's a formula to making a successful mmo. No one complains about how virtually every vehicle on the road has 4 wheels and most have 4 doors. Frankly, most of the combat in rs isn't any more exciting then turn based combat games. Combat could use an update.

 

Also mentions ruining pures. Pure should never have been good in the first place. A player with lower att/str then a pure but higher def should get an advantage. RS isn't a game where you specialize your character. There is no "jack of all trades, master of none" because RS has "jack of all trades, master of all trades." So, the concept of building a character specifically for pvp is contrary to what Runescape goes for.

 

He failed to mention anything to do with the fact that the combat update is obviously several months from being ready, not one month. It's obvious from playing the beta that lots of changes need to be done, but these large flaws are excusable in beta.

 

Also, one non-adressed issue from the beta, although one that's difficult to address until the game does live: pvp and armour. You risk your armour in pvp, meaning you want to avoid wearing the really expensive armour because you don't want to die in it. Yet, considering the health buff you get, you get a HUGE advantage wearing higher level armour. This creates an even bigger gap in pvp between those in budget gear and those rich and/or skilled enough to wear epic armour, like nex gear. Even barrows is a big risk to a lot of players. (You don't want to spend more time trying to earn back armour you lost in pvp then actually playing pvp.)

[Estoc]

This event was an excellent showcase of how unready this EoC actually is.

 

- Polypore staff not working, forcing me to change it.

- PITIFUL LP boosts on Void killing me two times.

- Switching combat styles is a huge nightmare (Akrisae; almost died twice in FULL NEX gear)

- The ability spamming and its visual effects makes my processor cry

- The head bopping thing for Void melee helm not yet fixed

- The protection prayer nerf is a nightmare.

- The ability book is a pain to navigate through.

 

God, this was just a dreadful event. I can't see this thing coming out in a month in its current state.

 

Void is level 42 armor, now it has level 42 stats. Protection prayers are also around level 42, but they're extremely overpowered in the live game for their requirement. Besides, barrows is the rare exception where beta is harder.

[Sy_Accursed]

In his defense, a lot of it does suck. How much it will suck in the future depends on when they actually release it and how flexible they'll be with certain changes.

 

He hates it because it apparently makes the game similar to every other mmo on the market and because it ruins pures. These aren't good reasons for hating it.

 

You know why so many mmo on the market as similar? Because there's a formula to making a successful mmo. No one complains about how virtually every vehicle on the road has 4 wheels and most have 4 doors. Frankly, most of the combat in rs isn't any more exciting then turn based combat games. Combat could use an update.

 

Totally off-topic but I couldn't resist:

I'm sure most people would complain if you sold them a 4 door car, seeing as how they measure doors on cars you generally get 3 door or 5 door.

 

Edit @below to avoid too much off-topic spam:

In car talk the boot/trunk is usually refereed to as a door, especially in the hatchbacks (which are kinda the main car type these days since they are the cheaper ones)

So you either get driver door, passenger door, boot for 3 doors or you get driver door, passenger door 2 back doors and boot for a 5 door.

[Sir_Squab]

Er, explain please?

 

Also, to stay on topic, I really hope after they get the combat update all ready and stuff they fix up dg to match it, rather then have a (probably) several month long time-period in which dg is really difficult to train, at least at previous rates.

[Alg]

Void is level 42 armor, now it has level 42 stats.

Except it requires something like 20 hours in a minigame.

 

I really don't like the way they're giving items stats based entirely on their combat requirements. A lot of quest and minigame rewards (Like void) are useful across every level. If they keep the items like this, they'll probably be obsolete by the time the average player gets them.

[Sy_Accursed]

Dg has already changed some what, but it's on their to-do list and there's been tweaks already and talk of more binds and stuff to compensate for need for more weapons.

 

And I added response to off-topic bit up above, to save spam.

[Patch_umz]

Well, most of the problems being listed could possibly be fixed already... it's been a month since the last beta update... so who knows how much they've fixed in that time.

[Failed Acct]

Is there seriously no patch notes for today either??? This is starting to get a little rediculous. I have no doubt they are fixing things but it would be realllll nice if they could keep us informed.

[Leon S]

Is there seriously no patch notes for today either??? This is starting to get a little rediculous. I have no doubt they are fixing things but it would be realllll nice if they could keep us informed.

 

I agree. The last patch notes were on July 20, and the last time there have been any changes to classes has been 29 days ago. And combat is still very unbalanced. What the Hell are you doing, Jagex?

 

Take a look at the WoW Mists of Pandaria beta. Lots of changes every week to tweak classes, quests and instances to make the game as balanced as possible.

[Sir_Squab]

Possible that the stuff Jagex wants to fix/change require more effort then a simple teak. Also, pretty sure WoW has more resources then RuneScape.

 

Although, they could at least post something in the forum weekly about what they're doing? Idk.

[Failed Acct]

Possible that the stuff Jagex wants to fix/change require more effort then a simple teak. Also, pretty sure WoW has more resources then RuneScape.

 

Although, they could at least post something in the forum weekly about what they're doing? Idk.

 

Just a weekly update of what they are currently working on/tweaking and I would have no issues with that. All we have now is an (understandably) partially implemented beta with no idea of what is going to be fixed.

 

it also is pretty insulting to the players giving feedback, since they aren't even acknowledging what they are working on and what they aren't.

[Sy_Accursed]

There is some acknowledgement the 'super faq' in the news forum for beta has been updated as recently as today and does address some of what they are working on if you can be assed to trawl through it.

But yeah a weekl post with a more clear list of what is being worked on would be nice.