The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[pulli23]

Well the problem for dg is that there is only 1 thing prayer -at 92- that gives solid enhanced sustainability. A good upgrade for example would be if the regen prayers would be tripled for dg: that would put a lot less stress on the requirement of 95 prayer to be successful.

[Quyneax]

Well the problem for dg is that there is only 1 thing prayer -at 92- that gives solid enhanced sustainability. A good upgrade for example would be if the regen prayers would be tripled for dg: that would put a lot less stress on the requirement of 95 prayer to be successful.

Tripling is not enough. And 95 prayer is hardly a requirement. It's not at all useful for pathing, for example, where you take damage without dealing any (also means no food drops).

 

As for the farming > pray/herb > mh cycle, it's the natural cycle in RS at the moment. You have to do something without cash to make cash, and the thing that requires the least cash to get up to an acceptable gp/hr happens to be farming (and MTK etc.).

[pulli23]

Well the problem for dg is that there is only 1 thing prayer -at 92- that gives solid enhanced sustainability. A good upgrade for example would be if the regen prayers would be tripled for dg: that would put a lot less stress on the requirement of 95 prayer to be successful.

Tripling is not enough. And 95 prayer is hardly a requirement. It's not at all useful for pathing, for example, where you take damage without dealing any (also means no food drops).

 

As for the farming > pray/herb > mh cycle, it's the natural cycle in RS at the moment. You have to do something without cash to make cash, and the thing that requires the least cash to get up to an acceptable gp/hr happens to be farming (and MTK etc.).

 

A game should never become linear, as that means the replayability of a game really goes down the drain. Clever game design doesn't make certain method best: instead a whole range of methods are equally good to beat the game. (and in RS getting xp is more or less beating the game).

[Blutters]

So kinda like having a shield and weapon in one bind?

Actually seems worth it.

 

EDIT

What I was actually after (a second piece of Primal).

So assuming T11 armor pieces are equal, one could get 990 + 2227 + 3564 + 2673 = 9454 LP in 3 binds (with the T11 LB).

[Alg]

So kinda like having a shield and weapon in one bind?

Actually seems worth it.

And apparently you can use shield abilities with it.

 

Or, you can with longbows outside of DG, at least.

[Gemini]

I'm confused entirely of what the EoC is.. I've seen YouTube videos of it, and I kinda read about in on the RuneScape updates, but never managed to play it. Was it substantially better than what RS is today, or is it gonna be one of those updates like when they removed free trade and the wilderness?

[Sir_Squab]

It's an attempt to redo RS combat. Some of it is fixes, like make 2h weapons useful, make the combat triangle relevant again, making protection prayers less OP, removing special attacks for adrenaline abilities, which make RS combat more modern, more skillful. Also to make it so combat can come down to personal preference rather then just certain options being better then the rest.

 

It's very complicated.

[Quyneax]

The metagame for abilities currently isn't much more complicated than "spam this if x amount of adrenaline, spam that if y amount, ultimate, rinse, repeat". There aren't enough abilities to actually make a choice (you need 5 basic abilities to get up to tresholds. Magic has 6 iirc). PvP is quite interesting though, because your opponent also uses abilities.

 

Imo it'd be much better if Jagex would allow us to create abilities rather than making them themselves. Players are far better at creating abilities for every niche than Jagex because Jagex doesn't know 90% of the niches.

[Sir_Squab]

The metagame for abilities currently isn't much more complicated than "spam this if x amount of adrenaline, spam that if y amount, ultimate, rinse, repeat". There aren't enough abilities to actually make a choice (you need 5 basic abilities to get up to tresholds. Magic has 6 iirc). PvP is quite interesting though, because your opponent also uses abilities.

 

Imo it'd be much better if Jagex would allow us to create abilities rather than making them themselves. Players are far better at creating abilities for every niche than Jagex because Jagex doesn't know 90% of the niches.

I want to be optimistic about the beta, so I'm hoping that either the meta-game just hasn't discovered a real meta-game yet, and/or that Jagex will introduce new abilities or something to fix that.

[Estoc]

Well the problem for dg is that there is only 1 thing prayer -at 92- that gives solid enhanced sustainability. A good upgrade for example would be if the regen prayers would be tripled for dg: that would put a lot less stress on the requirement of 95 prayer to be successful.

Tripling is not enough. And 95 prayer is hardly a requirement. It's not at all useful for pathing, for example, where you take damage without dealing any (also means no food drops).

 

As for the farming > pray/herb > mh cycle, it's the natural cycle in RS at the moment. You have to do something without cash to make cash, and the thing that requires the least cash to get up to an acceptable gp/hr happens to be farming (and MTK etc.).

 

A game should never become linear, as that means the replayability of a game really goes down the drain. Clever game design doesn't make certain method best: instead a whole range of methods are equally good to beat the game. (and in RS getting xp is more or less beating the game).

 

I don't see a way to accomplish that without making either everything free or everything exactly the same just giving xp in different skills. Players will naturally gravitate first towards the cheaper option, then to the less monotonous task. We're talking about a game where people will pass up an excellent method like monkey knife fighters for Pyramid Plunder because the xp is marginally better, or a bit less click intensive. Also, I've never found rpgs to be particularly non linear, even games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout which are lauded for being open ended and having massive replayability have their best weapon and armor tiers, best spells, best potions, best techniques...when the focus is on the destination and not the journey people will chose the shortest route.

[Sy_Accursed]

Well the problem for dg is that there is only 1 thing prayer -at 92- that gives solid enhanced sustainability. A good upgrade for example would be if the regen prayers would be tripled for dg: that would put a lot less stress on the requirement of 95 prayer to be successful.

Tripling is not enough. And 95 prayer is hardly a requirement. It's not at all useful for pathing, for example, where you take damage without dealing any (also means no food drops).

 

As for the farming > pray/herb > mh cycle, it's the natural cycle in RS at the moment. You have to do something without cash to make cash, and the thing that requires the least cash to get up to an acceptable gp/hr happens to be farming (and MTK etc.).

 

A game should never become linear, as that means the replayability of a game really goes down the drain. Clever game design doesn't make certain method best: instead a whole range of methods are equally good to beat the game. (and in RS getting xp is more or less beating the game).

 

I don't see a way to accomplish that without making either everything free or everything exactly the same just giving xp in different skills. Players will naturally gravitate first towards the cheaper option, then to the less monotonous task. We're talking about a game where people will pass up an excellent method like monkey knife fighters for Pyramid Plunder because the xp is marginally better, or a bit less click intensive. Also, I've never found rpgs to be particularly non linear, even games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout which are lauded for being open ended and having massive replayability have their best weapon and armor tiers, best spells, best potions, best techniques...when the focus is on the destination and not the journey people will chose the shortest route.

 

To me it's a non-issue the linear route comes from the meta-game aimed specifically at monster hunting; it's existence is inevitable. But there is nothing forcing you to play that way, take a cross section of stats from any number of random players and they certainly won't conform to some linear model where by farm leveling precedes herb/pray and not everyone is a monster hunter either so doesn't play to that end-game.

[Bows]

I got in.

 

It's pretty cool I guess; a bit confusing at first, but fun and different.

[Alg]

Anyone else miss the duel arena event last weekend? Didn't even see the news post until today.

 

Good to know that I'll miss out on part of the set because I missed one weekend, in spite of all the feedback I've given. :wall:

[Omali]

Anyone else miss the duel arena event last weekend? Didn't even see the news post until today.

 

Good to know that I'll miss out on part of the set because I missed one weekend, in spite of all the feedback I've given. :wall:

 

 

To be fair, checking Runescape.com every Friday is quite the daunting task.

[Kimberly]

Anyone else miss the duel arena event last weekend? Didn't even see the news post until today.

 

Good to know that I'll miss out on part of the set because I missed one weekend, in spite of all the feedback I've given. :wall:

 

 

To be fair, checking Runescape.com every Friday is quite the daunting task.

 

I can't stand checking the front page because it's filled with crap articles touting shit I don't care about more often it is than actual important, time-released things.

[Alg]

I can't stand checking the front page because it's filled with crap articles touting shit I don't care about more often it is than actual important, time-released things.

This. The main post for the weekend was for the skill pendants. It's incredibly easy for the event post to get lost with the older articles near the bottom, especially when they added a new one each day.

[Omali]

I can't stand checking the front page because it's filled with crap articles touting shit I don't care about more often it is than actual important, time-released things.

 

Well at least you admit that it is your fault.

 

Personally I'm not chuffed about the suit either way. For however annoyed people are now that they miss it, it is still going to be another costume that winds up in Diango's inventory for 364 days of the year.

[Cheat]

Cosmetic items are only cool when not many people have them when they are easy to obtain nobody cares.

[Kimberly]

I can't stand checking the front page because it's filled with crap articles touting shit I don't care about more often it is than actual important, time-released things.

 

Well at least you admit that it is your fault.

 

The only one who seemed to be implying otherwise was you. Only thing I think me and ALG were talking about was how these things weren't more visible.

[Platinum_Myr]

The only one who seemed to be implying otherwise was you. Only thing I think me and ALG were talking about was how these things weren't more visible.

 

They've been perfectly visible to me.. We've even discussed the weekend events in this thread. Jagex did post on the front page on Friday that it would be this last weekend. Sure, it might be possible for it to be easier? But you clearly knew that one of these weekends would have a beta event. If you wanted, you could check consistently to find out when the event was planned.. (I know that this particular event was delayed a week, so that is in your favor)

 

I don't think its a matter of Jagex not making it more visible, but more of a matter of players simply not caring enough about the beta to stay on top of these things.

[Kimberly]

I care about the beta, but when I'm never really sure which week is a beta week and which isn't, I seriously can't be bothered to sift through the newsfeed for what I'm looking for. While I know you guys are right that they have been trying to be visible, there's just more that can be done considering the fact that they can't do away with the bullshit newsposts. Even a set-schedule, or something.

 

EDIT: I suppose there's still a lot of time til the beta is over. Hell, they might do a "Did you miss it!" opportunity weekend still. *shrug*

[Omali]

I care about the beta, but when I'm never really sure which week is a beta week and which isn't, I seriously can't be bothered to sift through the newsfeed for what I'm looking for. While I know you guys are right that they have been trying to be visible, there's just more that can be done considering the fact that they can't do away with the bullshit newsposts. Even a set-schedule, or something.

 

It's right on the front page, and still is five days later. You have to "sift" through a whole six articles displayed on the front page to find it.

[Kimberly]

It's right on the front page, and still is five days later. You have to "sift" through a whole six articles displayed on the front page to find it.

 

I get that you think my reasons for not viewing the main page are shit. That aside is there seriously something you have against a fixed schedule so people know what's coming up and what isn't instead of guessing "oh okay is this weekend going to be an event weekend?" I mean, I get that it's fun to poke at people who have opinions that are a little irrational, but that doesn't mean you clamp your ears and go la la la to the rest that is rational.

[Gemini]

It's an attempt to redo RS combat. Some of it is fixes, like make 2h weapons useful, make the combat triangle relevant again, making protection prayers less OP, removing special attacks for adrenaline abilities, which make RS combat more modern, more skillful. Also to make it so combat can come down to personal preference rather then just certain options being better then the rest.

 

It's very complicated.

Pretty much sums up everything I asked and more, thanks. Sounds somewhat annoying to me, and I've seen a couple of YouTube videos of the Evolution of Combat and all I've had to hear about it was nasty reviews. Maybe 1 in every 500 people said something positive about it..

[Sir_Squab]

It's an attempt to redo RS combat. Some of it is fixes, like make 2h weapons useful, make the combat triangle relevant again, making protection prayers less OP, removing special attacks for adrenaline abilities, which make RS combat more modern, more skillful. Also to make it so combat can come down to personal preference rather then just certain options being better then the rest.

 

It's very complicated.

Pretty much sums up everything I asked and more, thanks. Sounds somewhat annoying to me, and I've seen a couple of YouTube videos of the Evolution of Combat and all I've had to hear about it was nasty reviews. Maybe 1 in every 500 people said something positive about it..

You've read 500 people talking about it?

 

Aside from that, have you heard of the phenomenon about how only pissed off people comment? (It needs a name. Maybe it has one and I don't know it. Probably that.) Basically, a person is far more likely to go on the internet and whine about something as opposed to go on the internet to talk about how awesome something is. Secondly, a lot of people have the "They changed it, now it's ruined attitude!" What that attitude is, is hating any form of change out of sheer dislike FOR change.

 

Many people are also accusing Jagex of becoming more like most MMORPGs out there. Well, the flip side says that there's a reason certain elements are common to most MMORPGs.

 

Lastly, it's a beta, and Jagex intends to take player input and update things. The beta gets updated almost every week as far as I know. Many things are going to change between now and then.