The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Patch_umz]

They heal like... ~200 more than a rocktail, at the cost of being 4 sips, while rocktail is 1 click food, even if you lose adrenaline, it's not that hard to get it back up, they need to boost the brews, otherwise they're dead content lol

Technically you could use flasks if you wanted. Making it far higher than rocktails. Brews should NOT be better burst healing than food, in any situation. Otherwise there would be no point to food at all.

[Oddish DIY]

I like rocktails being the "best" healing item. Maybe it will raise fishing profits as well.

[Saradomin_Mage]

To me it feels like rocktails and brews both had their uses in the live game, whereas this change to brews makes them very weak (and reduces overall healing capacity of your inventory). I don't feel like the tradeoff of making rocktails the best healing item justifies this.

[J35u5_M4]

I'm not saying brews should heal more than rocktails per sip, I'm just saying the 500 cap is way too low, One full vial brew heals just a bit over a rocktail, which is not the case in the live game, the cap should be at least raised to 1k

[deicidal_jimbo]

Hello, I am a Zerker level 147 and made a hybriding pk video for the EoC Beta fighting 140s-200s from edgeville, to revenants to mage bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79RThDjyc8&feature=player_embedded

[Kimberly]

To me it feels like rocktails and brews both had their uses in the live game, whereas this change to brews makes them very weak (and reduces overall healing capacity of your inventory). I don't feel like the tradeoff of making rocktails the best healing item justifies this.

 

Rocktails were almost never worth using in any bossing situation though, were they?

[Saradomin_Mage]

To me it feels like rocktails and brews both had their uses in the live game, whereas this change to brews makes them very weak (and reduces overall healing capacity of your inventory). I don't feel like the tradeoff of making rocktails the best healing item justifies this.

 

Rocktails were almost never worth using in any bossing situation though, were they?

As I understand, it was brews for bossing and rocktails for PVP, right? :P

[Cheefoo]

Hello, I am a Zerker level 147 and made a hybriding pk video for the EoC Beta fighting 140s-200s from edgeville, to revenants to mage bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79RThDjyc8&feature=player_embedded

 

Awesome video!!

[Blutters]

Yeah! Also because watching it I realized my bloom hasn't been active in beta this entire time. Much better!

[Patch_umz]

I'm not saying brews should heal more than rocktails per sip, I'm just saying the 500 cap is way too low, One full vial brew heals just a bit over a rocktail, which is not the case in the live game, the cap should be at least raised to 1k

500x6 doses is 3k health, which is far more than the 1800 rocktail. Any more and the burst healing would be far too high.

[Syd]

Hello, I am a Zerker level 147 and made a hybriding pk video for the EoC Beta fighting 140s-200s from edgeville, to revenants to mage bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79RThDjyc8&feature=player_embedded

 

Awesome video!!

 

Wonder is it just me, or does the game look more interesting to play being speed up a bit? I mean the action looks better, more smooth and obviously fast-paced with a bit more speed in the video. I assume the video is speed up, right? I don't remember action being like that when I tried the beta. :D

[deicidal_jimbo]

Hello, I am a Zerker level 147 and made a hybriding pk video for the EoC Beta fighting 140s-200s from edgeville, to revenants to mage bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79RThDjyc8&feature=player_embedded

 

Awesome video!!

 

Wonder is it just me, or does the game look more interesting to play being speed up a bit? I mean the action looks better, more smooth and obviously fast-paced with a bit more speed in the video. I assume the video is speed up, right? I don't remember action being like that when I tried the beta. :D

The video is sped up.

[guzoliub]

some observations on monster weaknesses of which I did not find mention so far in the thread:

 

Living rock creatures have 2 weakneses - one type is weak to magic (I think air, not sure) and the other to crush. Previously when I tried to use only one attack - crush or magic on both types (protector,striker) it was not working well at all on the wrong type.

Something was changed last week that relaxed that a lot. Now you can mage them all without problem or melee them all. Further I did not use crush but a combination of rapier(stab) and EEE(slash). That relaxation is not just for the living rocks, however it is not like all monsters are equally week/strong to all attack types. For example dark beasts show weakness to bolts, but I kill them faster with magic. Melee on the other hand does not work well at all on them.

 

At the moment I think that when a monster is weak to some ranged/melee/magic it is weak to all ranged/melee/magic (the difference does not seem to be big between using bow or xbow on bolts weak monster, or fire/ice magic on water weak monster etc.)

Also - as is the case with dark beasts - sometimes it might be better to fight a monster with attack that is not its weakness.

 

melee/ranged/magic realtive strength -> At the moment when trying slayer tasks or general PvM I find melee and magic very powerfull and definatelly better than ranged.

 

Also I think they overdid it with making some monsters less tough or with increasing the power of some abilities or general combat (except for ranged). Ganodermic beasts, dark beasts can now be killed with something like 1 normal shot(just to get the target) and one ability using magic

[Quyneax]

I'm not saying brews should heal more than rocktails per sip, I'm just saying the 500 cap is way too low, One full vial brew heals just a bit over a rocktail, which is not the case in the live game, the cap should be at least raised to 1k

500x6 doses is 3k health, which is far more than the 1800 rocktail. Any more and the burst healing would be far too high.

Drinking 6 doses of brew quickly reduces your stats to about 50 (from overloaded stats) taking 1-2 minutes to go back up unless you drink 2 super restore doses. You don't just need 10 brew flasks, you need 10 brew flasks and 2-3 super restore flasks + the ability to use overloads to heal fully. Not to mention that drinking so many potion doses will come at a cost in attack speed because you stop attacking when you spambrew.

[Saradomin_Mage]

BETA brews reduce your stats by 4 when you drink them at 116. You can take 4 doses but then when your overload kicks back in it's back to the full boost already :P

[Patch_umz]

I'm not saying brews should heal more than rocktails per sip, I'm just saying the 500 cap is way too low, One full vial brew heals just a bit over a rocktail, which is not the case in the live game, the cap should be at least raised to 1k

500x6 doses is 3k health, which is far more than the 1800 rocktail. Any more and the burst healing would be far too high.

Drinking 6 doses of brew quickly reduces your stats to about 50 (from overloaded stats) taking 1-2 minutes to go back up unless you drink 2 super restore doses. You don't just need 10 brew flasks, you need 10 brew flasks and 2-3 super restore flasks + the ability to use overloads to heal fully. Not to mention that drinking so many potion doses will come at a cost in attack speed because you stop attacking when you spambrew.

So... you understand nothing about the current niche for brews then? As I stated before, they aren't meant for panic healing, if you're trying to fill in the role of panic healing with brews, you're doing it wrong and you don't understand the design concept behind the brew change. Use food if you want emergancy heals in the middle of combat. Use brews if you want supplementary heals when you aren't getting nuked.

 

See, they don't want you avoiding food, they want you using both, depending on the situation.

[Leon S]

If anyone finds a doomcore staff on the beta server, please let me know if it's a 1 handed staff or a 2 handed staff.

[Sy_Accursed]

If anyone finds a doomcore staff on the beta server, please let me know if it's a 1 handed staff or a 2 handed staff.

 

All staves are 2h, that's why they brought in wand equivalents of most major staves

[Alg]

All staves are 2h, that's why they brought in wand equivalents of most major staves

They haven't done that in dungeoneering yet.

[Leon S]

If anyone finds a doomcore staff on the beta server, please let me know if it's a 1 handed staff or a 2 handed staff.

 

All staves are 2h, that's why they brought in wand equivalents of most major staves

 

I know, but I hear rumors that the doomcore staff is 1 handed. It's a rare drop from nechryael, so it could be true. And there aren't wands in Dungeoneering, are there?

[Zerker_Jane]

Can anyone who's tried tell me if it's easier or harder to get tokhaar kal in this update?

[Cheefoo]

If anyone finds a doomcore staff on the beta server, please let me know if it's a 1 handed staff or a 2 handed staff.

 

All staves are 2h, that's why they brought in wand equivalents of most major staves

 

I know, but I hear rumors that the doomcore staff is 1 handed. It's a rare drop from nechryael, so it could be true. And there aren't wands in Dungeoneering, are there?

 

I got a doomcore staff in my first beta dungeon. It was 2 handed...

[Leon S]

If anyone finds a doomcore staff on the beta server, please let me know if it's a 1 handed staff or a 2 handed staff.

 

All staves are 2h, that's why they brought in wand equivalents of most major staves

 

I know, but I hear rumors that the doomcore staff is 1 handed. It's a rare drop from nechryael, so it could be true. And there aren't wands in Dungeoneering, are there?

 

I got a doomcore staff in my first beta dungeon. It was 2 handed...

 

Okay, thanks. It's still a useless staff, then.

[Quyneax]

BETA brews reduce your stats by 4 when you drink them at 116. You can take 4 doses but then when your overload kicks back in it's back to the full boost already :P

That's weird... but alright I guess. In that case brews are just really expensive concentrated healing that's annoying to use...

 

So... you understand nothing about the current niche for brews then? As I stated before, they aren't meant for panic healing, if you're trying to fill in the role of panic healing with brews, you're doing it wrong and you don't understand the design concept behind the brew change. Use food if you want emergancy heals in the middle of combat. Use brews if you want supplementary heals when you aren't getting nuked.

 

See, they don't want you avoiding food, they want you using both, depending on the situation.

I'm pretty sure the concept behind the change is that rocktails require a higher level than brews, so they heal more. No real balance issues Jagex thought of.

 

Imagine a situation where you need a ton of healing, but spread out over a longer time, and you also need to camp for ages. Any situation spring to mind? They simply don't exist. You made up a niche, it's a workable idea in a sense, but there's no economic sense in spending so much money when you can just bank and use rocktails instead.

[Kimberly]

Imagine a situation where you need a ton of healing, but spread out over a longer time, and you also need to camp for ages. Any situation spring to mind? They simply don't exist. You made up a niche, it's a workable idea in a sense, but there's no economic sense in spending so much money when you can just bank and use rocktails instead.

 

Are we positive such a "niche" doesn't exist in the beta?