The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Slayer_Jesse]

while i agree with you, some weapons just dont have a use without a spec. the godswords will be hit hard if thier spec isnt readded, because then the difference would just be cosmetic. and the main reason to have EE Excalibur is to have a good healing spec. making it an offhand whip dos'nt really compensate for the loss of that imo.

[decebal]

while i agree with you, some weapons just dont have a use without a spec. the godswords will be hit hard if thier spec isnt readded, because then the difference would just be cosmetic. and the main reason to have EE Excalibur is to have a good healing spec. making it an offhand whip dos'nt really compensate for the loss of that imo.

While I'm not going to argue that godswords won't be hit by this update, the EE is receiving a very strong buff to make up for the loss of the spec, especially because a whip can't be wielded in the offhand.

[Randox]

while i agree with you, some weapons just dont have a use without a spec. the godswords will be hit hard if thier spec isnt readded, because then the difference would just be cosmetic. and the main reason to have EE Excalibur is to have a good healing spec. making it an offhand whip dos'nt really compensate for the loss of that imo.

I just have to say, I own a BGS. I think that means that in the end, I win :D

 

An offhand whip isn't too terrible a compensating I think. Don't get me wrong, I would take it's old spec over a second whip any day of the week, especially when I can get an offhand of literally anything else, but it's not too bad imo.

[Platinum_Myr]

I haven't seen it yet so http://services.runescape.com/m=news/devblog-changes-for-a-better-beta-

 

 

[hide]

 

DevBlog: Changes for a Better Beta

4 days ago

Beta has been running for just over two weeks now and we've had an amazing amount of feedback. We're not just tuning and tweaking but making some real core changes based on what you've been saying. I want to highlight a few of the things we've changed already and some of the things we're still working on.

 

In Beta Now

Here are a few issues we've already started to address. Some are from the update that just went out, while others may not have been clear from a previous update: if you already tried beta combat and thought it wasn't for you, definitely get back there and try out the changes: we're definitely going to need more feedback and fine-tuning before we're really happy.

 

If you haven't been in the beta yet don't worry: members can drop in every weekend, and there may be chances for more beta testers in future.

 

Autoattacks vs. Abilities

This is a big one for a lot of people. We wanted a more exciting and dynamic system that rewarded player skill and engagement, and we got good feedback from players who were interested in that. We also wanted to provide a satisfying experience for those who wanted less engagement: we all like to kick back and do some training in front of the TV sometimes, and the new combat system wasn't really offering that choice.

 

In the latest beta update we've increased autoattack damage so that using them on their own is a satisfying choice. Best possible performance still requires good ability use, but autoattacking alone is more effective now than it was before, and throwing in an occasional ultimate will get you that special attack thrill on top.

 

Avoiding Stun

Like many of you, we weren't happy with the way being stunned ruins your day. Freedom now works as the stun-escape we intended, and Anticipation now gives pre-emptive protection from stun. Remember that all the stuns share a cooldown, so with good timing you can resist the stuns of a solo opponent with minimal disruption (and I'll come back to multiple opponents later).

 

XP Rates

We were experimenting with a level cut-off that would encourage you to fight against monsters appropriate to your skill levels. After some feedback we removed this restriction from Slayer tasks, since you don't get to choose those opponents. After more feedback we decided to remove that level scaling entirely: stronger monsters are still worth more individually but you'll still earn the full amount from a below-level opponent.

 

We'll be keeping an eye on this: we'd still like you to fight things of appropriate level, so that you can feel a progression as the game advances and so that players of different levels aren't competing for kills. We've listened though and we understand that you appreciate the choice.

 

Triangle Balancing

We still want to bring the corners of the combat triangle to an even level where each is equally attractive, and we know we're not there yet. What we have done so far is made changes to raise the damage potential of Magic and we're going to keep studying that balance as the beta goes on (and on into a live release).

 

What we'd like from you is your best constructive and balanced feedback. Loads of people want us to buff their favourite, but fair feedback is key so try them all if you can and tell us how you feel they compare.

 

Next Steps

We're going to keep looking at the issues above (and various other things we've changed): just because we changed it once doesn't mean we won't continue to review it. As well as those, here are a few of the things we've been talking about doing soon:

 

Single-Way Wilderness Worlds

Single-way combat provided an important niche for PKers and we underestimated how large that demand is. With improvements to the way monsters choose targets and changes to the multicannon we're happy that we can reach a good solution for PvM without single-way areas, but for PvP it's clear that we need a more drastic solution.

 

What we're currently looking into is having a small number of worlds in which the Wilderness is single-way. This solves the pile-jumping and group ganking problems without producing a situation in which players retreat to single-way to get out of fair group fights. It's not the only possible solution and I'm not promising it'll be the exact one that works in the end, but be assured that we understand the problem and are determined to solve it.

 

Putting on Armour

Armour now grants lots of bonus life points and we know it's annoying that they don't automatically fill up when you suit up. We haven't pinned down a fix for this yet (it needs to be a solution that absolutely can't be abused for unfair gain) but the current favourite is some kind of ‘safe zone' in which you will rapidly heal up. Stay tuned for further developments.

 

Dungeoneering

Dungeoneering has already seen lots of fixes and some important improvements, such as the way bound armour interacts with your life points. We've got lots more on the table, first in the beta to make sure that EoC didn't harm the gameplay, then as a further project afterward to make other improvements that have come up since it first launched.

 

Magic is suffering from some itemisation problems at the moment, so fixing that should do a lot to redress the balance. We're also hoping to have time to make some interim improvements to binding, although we've got a whole host of changes planned for the full project later.

 

Summoning

Definite answers to all the questions that Summoning poses aren't ready yet, but it's in the same boat as Dungeoneering. We'll do what we need to make sure it works by the end of the beta, and we look forward to the opportunity for a thorough rework later on.

 

Presentation and Information

We'll be improving the presentation of the whole system, including targeting enemies, the daunting ability book, ease of understanding the stats on equipment, and so on. Many of our current problems stem from misunderstandings about the system, so explaining it better is a high priority in the short term.

 

The Bottom Line

What I hope is clear from what we've done so far is that we are listening and we are determined to make the best game we can. Some parts of the old system didn't survive the rework when they should have, but we've made such huge leaps forward in other areas that the right solution now is to find those weaknesses and bring them up to date or find something new to fill those niches. The best game we can make is the one that looks to the future, having an improved combat system but retaining the character of the game we know and love.

 

We need your help with that:

 

Get into the beta, test the things you're worried about then give your feedback on the forums.

When you don't like something, try and help us understand why.

Don't be discouraged if we don't fix it immediately; there's always lots to do and we're already iterating faster than I've ever seen done in a beta of this size.

Don't be discouraged if there isn't a Mod post in response to every thread; the people you really want to hear from have to split their time between telling you what we're doing and actually doing it.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your continued help with a great beta.

 

Mod Hew

[/hide]

 

Here they talk about a lot of changes and plans. Especially in regards to how the multicombat system will indeed tone down aggression and target selection for the monster AI

[Quyneax]

while i agree with you, some weapons just dont have a use without a spec. the godswords will be hit hard if thier spec isnt readded, because then the difference would just be cosmetic. and the main reason to have EE Excalibur is to have a good healing spec. making it an offhand whip dos'nt really compensate for the loss of that imo.

While I'm not going to argue that godswords won't be hit by this update, the EE is receiving a very strong buff to make up for the loss of the spec, especially because a whip can't be wielded in the offhand.

Godswords are actually better now than they were before due to the massive boost 2h weapons get. Not as good as cmaul in raw stats, but the best 2h slashing weapon and possibly even a reasonable weapon for slayer in the 75-79 attack range.

[Failed Acct]

Anyone know how Arma storm is in the latest version of the beta? I don't have it currently but am working toward ROTM as we speak and just want to make sure my efforts won't be for nothing once EoC goes live.

[Quyneax]

Anyone know how Arma storm is in the latest version of the beta? I don't have it currently but am working toward ROTM as we speak and just want to make sure my efforts won't be for nothing once EoC goes live.

Divine Storm, the replacement for god spells, seems to be the best all-round spell, highest max hit and uses air runes only. SoA is far too expensive with the rune cost reduction.

[fishy227]

Anyone know how Arma storm is in the latest version of the beta? I don't have it currently but am working toward ROTM as we speak and just want to make sure my efforts won't be for nothing once EoC goes live.

Divine Storm, the replacement for god spells, seems to be the best all-round spell, highest max hit and uses air runes only. SoA is far too expensive with the rune cost reduction.

 

I wonder what this means for mage arena. The three godstaves just become cosemetic like hilts? I guess in the EOC the staves and the capes are low level equipment, and nothing stays the best forever ( in regards to the god capes, not the staves/spells).

[muggiwhplar]

Divine storm has higher DPS than arma? That doesn't make any sense

[Hedgehog]

It doesn't, but the dps difference isn't enough to justify paying 1.2k more per cast.

[Ambler]

It doesn't, but the dps difference isn't enough to justify paying 1.2k more per cast.

Hopefully something will be added where 1 rune = 15 casts, that would be pretty neat.

[Failed Acct]

Either that or SoA should be buffed in some way so that it justifies the rediculous quest/skill requirements to obtain (in comparison to divine storm, which I am assuming is just mage arena). If the difference is only marginal between the two, then something seems wrong there.

[Alg]

How is magic damage compared to other classes? If the equipment screen is to be believed, surge spells have around 340-360 damage, while melee and ranged are three to four times that now.

[Cheefoo]

How is magic damage compared to other classes? If the equipment screen is to be believed, surge spells have around 340-360 damage, while melee and ranged are three to four times that now.

 

It seems to do a bunch of damage with abilities, about as much as the other classes. The equipment screen is incredibly misleading, even the auto-attack spells do far more damage than is claimed. Whoever coded it is a proper [rooster]-ass.

[Leon S]

I was dealing 2,600 damage with a staff and divine storm on auto-cast, so I think that's pretty good.

[muggiwhplar]

So what's the best DPS for magic currently? Polypore staff with divine/arma storm?

[Leon S]

So what's the best DPS for magic currently? Polypore staff with divine/arma storm?

 

Pretty much, yeah. Chaotic staff and polypore staff share the same hit bonus, but the polypore staff has a 5 Prayer bonus and it doesn't degrade.

[muggiwhplar]

Monster weaknesses aside, which combat style would be the best DPS for slayer?

[Cheefoo]

Monster weaknesses aside, which combat style would be the best DPS for slayer?

 

Miraculously, they all seem pretty even DPS. So it really does come down to your target's weakness.

[muggiwhplar]

Then I guess my next question is, whats the best DPS setup for ranged and melee vs slayer targets? Or does that also depend on monster weaknesses (ex. Dual crossbows for some monsters, zaryte for others)

[Sy_Accursed]

^It depends on the monster weaknesses seeing as the weakness are:

Air

Earth

Water

Fire

Arrows

Bolts

Thrown

Crush

Slash

Stab

 

So you need c-bow setup, bow setup and thrown wep setup for ranged as a bare minimum.

But then stepping back from pure DPS a bit the variety of monsters (some being tankable, some not so much etc.) it would seem you need/want a 2h/dual wield option AND shield option for each type as well.

[Leon S]

What are this week's patch notes?

[RobocopIsWin]

Beta update: 20/07/12

 

Auto Vs Ability damage

 

Last week we made some significant changes to how the damage is split between Abilities and Auto-attacks and introduced abilities actually stalling the auto-attacks to seperate the two. We are keeping this, but people who use abilities should notice the stall between the two is far less that it was last week and related to the ability used itself - it will feel a lot more like it did on inital beta release.

 

Minigames opening:

 

-Fight kiln

 

-Troll invasion

 

-Temple trekking

 

-Shades of mortton

 

-Phoenix lair

 

-Mage arena (Will know unlock "Divine storm")

 

-Fist of Guthix

 

-Stealing Creation

 

-FFA Clan wars

 

 

Other changes:

 

 

● Auras were causing some annoyances when you sheath weapons. For now, we've disabled the Auras graphical appearance when sheathed. Auras positioning with some mis-aligned weapons (like bows) will be addressed in a future update.

 

● Similar to last weeks update to Ice Strykewyrms, Glacors will now take vasty increased damage if hit with fire spells or fire-based abilities.

 

● Added some new animations for drinking potions in and out of combat

 

● Dreadnips were running off to early, they now react correctly to you being in combat and thus should stick around longer as expected.

 

● PvP drops weren't acting correctly in regards to who saw what. This should now be resolved.

 

● The Hit bonus of weapons on the equip screen wasn't displaying correctly and now should.

 

 

On the topic of hitbonus it has been noted that some people are reporting lower chances to hit certain monsters. This is mainly due to the shift in contributions from last week. Before we make any changes, please remember some NPC's may have shifted weaknesses from what they have in the live game - so check the combat side panel for their weakness and see if that gives you the hit chance you expect if used against them.

 

 

Patch notes:

 

The following small fixes and adjustments have now been made to the combat beta:

 

Abilities:

 

● Using the barge ability on an NPC with targeting, will no longer cause the game to disconnect.

 

Combat:

 

● Prevented Dreadnips from leaving combat, due to thinking you were no longer fighting.

 

● When an item on the action bar degrades to a different state, you will now still be able to use without having to re-add the item to the action bar.

 

~~~

 

In other news:

 

The Following Mini-Games are now unlocked in Beta:

 

● Temple Trekking

● Fist of Guthix

● Mage Arena

● Phoenix Lair

● Shades of Mort'ton

● Stealing Creations

● Troll Invasion

● TzHaar Fight Kiln

● Free-for-all Clan Wars (Safe and Dangerous)

 

Known Issues :

 

● The Purple portal for grouped Clan Wars is currently still disabled on Beta.

 

● The Rated version Clans Wars is also still disabled on Beta.

 

● You need to keep clicking on the corner of barriers in Stealing Creations to attack them.

 

● As the hunted in Fist of Guthix, you are currently unable to attack back with Magic or Magic Abilities.

 

Note:The existing restrictions on the minimum number of players required to start specific mini-games has been removed in beta only. This is to help you with quickly getting your games started, the restrictions will be added back at the end of beta.

[Cheat]

If something for instance waterfiends are weak to bolts does this mean they are weak in general to range (so a bow would be better than a cr) or does it mean they are weak to bolts and then all other combat styles are equal?

[Sy_Accursed]

If something for instance waterfiends are weak to bolts does this mean they are weak in general to range (so a bow would be better than a cr) or does it mean they are weak to bolts and then all other combat styles are equal?

 

The later as far as I am aware. Basically of the 10 attack choices the 9 non-weakness ones are pretty evenly matched in general with the defined weakness giving a nice boon to dps. Prob a few exceptions, but in general it seems to be the case.