The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Leon S]

They need to buff dual wield casting. It's so bad in comparision to staves.

 

Are 2-handed weapons the way to go for Melee and Ranged as well? Abilities deal the most damage with 2-handed weapons, which is where most of your total damage will come from.

[Patch_umz]

They need to buff dual wield casting. It's so bad in comparision to staves.

 

Are 2-handed weapons the way to go for Melee and Ranged as well? Abilities deal the most damage with 2-handed weapons, which is where most of your total damage will come from.

Depends on what you fight. If it's bosses, the Dual Wield ultimates are extremely OP, if you're just doing slayer or something, I prefer 2H'ers. (Unless you need a shield, of course)

[Platinum_Myr]

They need to buff dual wield casting. It's so bad in comparision to staves.

 

Are 2-handed weapons the way to go for Melee and Ranged as well? Abilities deal the most damage with 2-handed weapons, which is where most of your total damage will come from.

Depends on what you fight. If it's bosses, the Dual Wield ultimates are extremely OP, if you're just doing slayer or something, I prefer 2H'ers. (Unless you need a shield, of course)

 

Is that because the dual-wield ultimates are overkill at slayer while the basic and threshold ones are less powerful than the 2h?

[Omali]

To be quite honest, I wouldn't mind seeing runes get taken out of the game, and instead runecrafting is turned into an enchanting skill of sorts. It would make sense as an "advance in technology" kind of update.

 

It would have to be one hell of a quest to smoothly remove the runes from the culture of man in this Age as well as their dependency on them - and then whatever miraculous change that is would have to be a world-wide event that would suddenly allow the human race to work magic without runes.

 

I personally don't think it can be done, or will be done, within our "play-lifetimes." There's no real point. Such a revolutionary change would be the start of a new Age, and we're already lining up one to start with the climax of re-emerged Elder Gods etc.

We can already infuse staves with the power of runes, and we can already infuse items with runes, why not infuse staves with spells? I know we're off-topic here, but I can see it feasible and not game-breaking at all to restructure RCing into an enchanting skill, then incorporate staff-imbuing into it. Extra spells not covered by the staff could be covered by tablets instead.

 

Doesn't matter. Jagex would never remove or radically alter a skill to remove its primary focus because they would be opening the door and giving the middle finger to the massive swaths of the community as they walk out.

[decebal]

To be quite honest, I wouldn't mind seeing runes get taken out of the game, and instead runecrafting is turned into an enchanting skill of sorts. It would make sense as an "advance in technology" kind of update.

 

It would have to be one hell of a quest to smoothly remove the runes from the culture of man in this Age as well as their dependency on them - and then whatever miraculous change that is would have to be a world-wide event that would suddenly allow the human race to work magic without runes.

 

I personally don't think it can be done, or will be done, within our "play-lifetimes." There's no real point. Such a revolutionary change would be the start of a new Age, and we're already lining up one to start with the climax of re-emerged Elder Gods etc.

We can already infuse staves with the power of runes, and we can already infuse items with runes, why not infuse staves with spells? I know we're off-topic here, but I can see it feasible and not game-breaking at all to restructure RCing into an enchanting skill, then incorporate staff-imbuing into it. Extra spells not covered by the staff could be covered by tablets instead.

 

Doesn't matter. Jagex would never remove or radically alter a skill to remove its primary focus because they would be opening the door and giving the middle finger to the massive swaths of the community as they walk out.

They're already giving a massive middle finger to the pure community with the very update we're supposed to be talking about here, while the update I'm suggesting could make runecrafting much more useful than it already is while allowing mages to use less resources when casting spells. Win-win for both sides, with the only people being alienated being the ones who haven't bothered training rcing, but who hasn't with the Runespan?

[Estoc]

If you need to use magic stones to cast magic, then I'm sorry but you're not a mage.

 

I suggest you brush up on RuneScape lore. The whole point of the rune stone is that since humans were not capable of magic on their own, Guthix created rune stones to allow them to channel it in with training. When the God Wars ended, the rune supply had been drained and the gods had long since departed. Over time, the Freminik discovered that the Stone of Jas had left behind the essence stone, which they found could create runes.

 

So no, there are no humans capable of magic naturally, but that's the way the lore was written so both Jagex and the players now have to deal with it.

Yes I know humans on runescape need runes to cast magic, what I meant was that dependency on runes makes runescape mages weak relative to mages in other games/fantasy/myth etc. I really don't have a problem with runes being in runescape, but having to buy each rune then use 10 or more for certain spells is ridiculous, especially since mages are just as effective as warriors and rangers. Runes as consumable ammunition are like making warriors take food which they need to eat after every kill to keep up their strength.

[Sir_Squab]

To be quite honest, I wouldn't mind seeing runes get taken out of the game, and instead runecrafting is turned into an enchanting skill of sorts. It would make sense as an "advance in technology" kind of update.

 

It would have to be one hell of a quest to smoothly remove the runes from the culture of man in this Age as well as their dependency on them - and then whatever miraculous change that is would have to be a world-wide event that would suddenly allow the human race to work magic without runes.

 

I personally don't think it can be done, or will be done, within our "play-lifetimes." There's no real point. Such a revolutionary change would be the start of a new Age, and we're already lining up one to start with the climax of re-emerged Elder Gods etc.

We can already infuse staves with the power of runes, and we can already infuse items with runes, why not infuse staves with spells? I know we're off-topic here, but I can see it feasible and not game-breaking at all to restructure RCing into an enchanting skill, then incorporate staff-imbuing into it. Extra spells not covered by the staff could be covered by tablets instead.

 

Honestly, now that regular combat only needs elemental runes, we aren't that far off. Get a wand of air and a fire tome and you're good. Or a smoke staff for 2h. It REALLY isn't much of a stretch on what we currently have now. Not in the slightest. As for ancients, that's a little harder, but on the other hand ancients is powerful enough that requiring runes isn't that bad.

[Patch_umz]

They need to buff dual wield casting. It's so bad in comparision to staves.

 

Are 2-handed weapons the way to go for Melee and Ranged as well? Abilities deal the most damage with 2-handed weapons, which is where most of your total damage will come from.

Depends on what you fight. If it's bosses, the Dual Wield ultimates are extremely OP, if you're just doing slayer or something, I prefer 2H'ers. (Unless you need a shield, of course)

 

Is that because the dual-wield ultimates are overkill at slayer while the basic and threshold ones are less powerful than the 2h?

No, it's because while the 2H ultimate does good damage, it only hits once. And the trick is, the DW ultimates max out their damage (5000's) every hit, and hit maybe 4 or 5 times. They are supposed to do around the same damage total, but the damage limiter is basically being abused by the fact that DW hits multiple times for the max damage. I expect that to get fixed before launch. So both will just outright kill the mob you're fighting, and against normal mobs the DW ultimates aren't that special.

[Omali]

They're already giving a massive middle finger to the pure community with the very update we're supposed to be talking about here, while the update I'm suggesting could make runecrafting much more useful than it already is while allowing mages to use less resources when casting spells. Win-win for both sides, with the only people being alienated being the ones who haven't bothered training rcing, but who hasn't with the Runespan?

 

Not the same. Jagex has said time and time again that they do not recognize combat pures or skiller pures as legitimate ways to play the game, and have warned them time and time again that updates are not made with pures in mind. I remember a Jagex mod commenting on a rant back when certain equipment was given defense requirements so pures couldn't use them (I can't remember what), that pures should not be surprised if Jagex updates the game to break their playstyle because they consider it as gaming the system.

[Urza285]

They're already giving a massive middle finger to the pure community with the very update we're supposed to be talking about here, while the update I'm suggesting could make runecrafting much more useful than it already is while allowing mages to use less resources when casting spells. Win-win for both sides, with the only people being alienated being the ones who haven't bothered training rcing, but who hasn't with the Runespan?

 

Not the same. Jagex has said time and time again that they do not recognize combat pures or skiller pures as legitimate ways to play the game, and have warned them time and time again that updates are not made with pures in mind. I remember a Jagex mod commenting on a rant back when certain equipment was given defense requirements so pures couldn't use them (I can't remember what), that pures should not be surprised if Jagex updates the game to break their playstyle because they consider it as gaming the system.

 

I call bullshit! *throws hand in air like an eager third grader*

 

Jagex has stated that they did not intend for the game to be played the way pures play the game, but thats the extend of it... They appreciate all play styles, but exclude none. Its the players themselves that feeel exluded mostly. They never stated that they wouldn't recognize them... The closest you could get to that would be making a semi-accurate assumption that jagex doesn't want those players to play their game that way with how the EOC is going.

[Alg]

I call bullshit! *throws hand in air like an eager third grader*

 

Jagex has stated that they did not intend for the game to be played the way pures play the game, but thats the extend of it... They appreciate all play styles, but exclude none. Its the players themselves that feeel exluded mostly. They never stated that they wouldn't recognize them... The closest you could get to that would be making a semi-accurate assumption that jagex doesn't want those players to play their game that way with how the EOC is going.

On the other hand, he's right that they don't make updates with pures in mind, and they have been fairly hostile when pures inevitably complained. With that in mind it isn't surprising that, when they have the chance to fix everything that's been wrong with combat during the game's run, they'll try to remove a playstyle that they've only tolerated because they couldn't get rid of it.

 

Personally, I think they went too far in the opposite direction. Now, you're screwed if you're not perfectly balanced (and maxed) or a tank. I'm not aware of any exploits with builds, but there's no freedom.

[Estoc]

I'm worried about thrown weapons. Dragon darts are the highest atm, and that's kinda pathetic.

 

The last time I tried, rune thrownaxes and javelins had higher damage than I think ccb with diamond bolts, around 700-800 damage total. Thing is they had something like 4 range so they were a pain to use in castlewars where I tried them. Hoping we get off hand versions of at least axes, they're one of my favorite weapons but have never been worth using.

 

I call bullshit! *throws hand in air like an eager third grader*

 

Jagex has stated that they did not intend for the game to be played the way pures play the game, but thats the extend of it... They appreciate all play styles, but exclude none. Its the players themselves that feeel exluded mostly. They never stated that they wouldn't recognize them... The closest you could get to that would be making a semi-accurate assumption that jagex doesn't want those players to play their game that way with how the EOC is going.

 

Pures are abusing a broken part of the game for their benefit, that's less a play style and more bug abuse. The rest I agree with, Jagex isn't cracking down on pures by fixing defence any more than they were cracking down on players by fixing the penguin points bug, multiple corp bugs, or any other bug, they're just fixing their game. When pures start to be banned in droves people can complain that "jagex hates pures".

[Patch_umz]

I'm worried about thrown weapons. Dragon darts are the highest atm, and that's kinda pathetic.

 

The last time I tried, rune thrownaxes and javelins had higher damage than I think ccb with diamond bolts, around 700-800 damage total. Thing is they had something like 4 range so they were a pain to use in castlewars where I tried them. Hoping we get off hand versions of at least axes, they're one of my favorite weapons but have never been worth using.

 

I call bullshit! *throws hand in air like an eager third grader*

 

Jagex has stated that they did not intend for the game to be played the way pures play the game, but thats the extend of it... They appreciate all play styles, but exclude none. Its the players themselves that feeel exluded mostly. They never stated that they wouldn't recognize them... The closest you could get to that would be making a semi-accurate assumption that jagex doesn't want those players to play their game that way with how the EOC is going.

 

Pures are abusing a broken part of the game for their benefit, that's less a play style and more bug abuse. The rest I agree with, Jagex isn't cracking down on pures by fixing defence any more than they were cracking down on players by fixing the penguin points bug, multiple corp bugs, or any other bug, they're just fixing their game. When pures start to be banned in droves people can complain that "jagex hates pures".

Summed up nicely. Pures abused the broken defense system to get an edge. While fixing the broken system they damaged the playstyle abusing it. They weren't aiming to kill pures, they just wanted to fix the completely useless defense system.

[Riptide Mage]

giving the middle finger to the massive swaths of the community as they walk out.

 

Did you completely miss the SoF and SGS updates we have been getting 3/4 weeks every month?

[Kimberly]

giving the middle finger to the massive swaths of the community as they walk out.

 

Did you completely miss the SoF and SGS updates we have been getting 3/4 weeks every month?

 

Small apples compared to what Omali was actually talking about. And if our own little community is indicative of what happened in the player base at large, relatively few people truly quit over these things.

[Fire_Hawk154]

Does anyone know how the new combat levels work in the wilderness regarding which level players you can attack?

A level 126 can attack a level 86 in level 40 wilderness now, but if it remains the same after the combat, a level 200 could attack a level 160. The avarage 86 combat would only be level 140 after the update, so we can attack even less players in the wilderness. Maybe it seems more fair, but it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

[Platinum_Myr]

it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

[Sy_Accursed]

it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

[Platinum_Myr]

I never really got left alone in the wildy, but at least generally they didn't hide out in the penguin chats trying to find where to hide.

[Den]

Pkers have always killed people doing clues, even before PvP Wilderness was removed.

I can't speak for how the current state is, as I don't bother checking into that kind of stuff these days.

[Sir_Squab]

I'd rather see PVP stick to stuff like the crucible. In theory, it seems like an almost, if not entirely perfect system. Keep PVP away from players who don't like PVP and in places the crucible or clan wars, place where there's only pvp and nothing else.

 

I think RS might be the only game that puts non-PVP elements in PVP areas without offering those same non-PVP elements in non-PVP areas. It's hard to articulate, but like... people who want to do non-PVP activities will have to go into PVP areas to complete those activities, or not be able to complete them. (Penguins, clues.) Pretty much every other game, (assuming it's a semi-PVP game) you can always choose non-PVP servers.

 

I'm not sure if I articulated this well, but I hope you get what I mean.

[Platinum_Myr]

Part of the reason they did that is because no one goes into wildy since PVP doesn't have its own rewards, you have to hope someone has better gear, but it turns out you can rush and sometimes win without as much risk so people tend towards that. This means that people don't have real targets, so jagex adds content in order to ensure at least a few people have to go inside the wilderness..

[decebal]

They're already giving a massive middle finger to the pure community with the very update we're supposed to be talking about here, while the update I'm suggesting could make runecrafting much more useful than it already is while allowing mages to use less resources when casting spells. Win-win for both sides, with the only people being alienated being the ones who haven't bothered training rcing, but who hasn't with the Runespan?

 

Not the same. Jagex has said time and time again that they do not recognize combat pures or skiller pures as legitimate ways to play the game, and have warned them time and time again that updates are not made with pures in mind. I remember a Jagex mod commenting on a rant back when certain equipment was given defense requirements so pures couldn't use them (I can't remember what), that pures should not be surprised if Jagex updates the game to break their playstyle because they consider it as gaming the system.

Fair enough. They don't support pures, and they stated it. But they never said they still support the current magic style. As mentioned earlier, we are already heading towards a direction where magic spells are worth nearly nothing, we are not far off.

 

Now I have a little question: who does an "RC imbuing update" screw over? Who are they pointing the middle finger to?

[Kimberly]

People who train magic, since what you're proposing is basically like the merging of magic and runecrafting.

[Cheefoo]

People who train magic, since what you're proposing is basically like the merging of magic and runecrafting.

 

Jagex needs to make more radical changes akin to the Evolution of Combat. If they stay afraid of people who dislike change, we'll never see Runescape improve very much.

 

Even minuscule updates cause huge backlashes on the forums. Vocal minority or not, bigger changes (even if they are 100% for the better, such as the EoC) always create a lot of dispute.

 

Jagex just needs to ignore these nay-sayers and just focus on improving the game (and SoF, SGS, microtransaction bullshit too, of course). If totally reworking how Runecrafting works would improve the game, I'm all for it.