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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion


Leon S

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People who train magic, since what you're proposing is basically like the merging of magic and runecrafting.

They gain the ability to use spells without a cost if they are willing to invest in a runecrafter/ the runecrafting skill. Besides that, Runescape has never been the type of game that allowed the creation of accounts with a narrow focus of skills as that would weaken the character as a whole. There aren't too many main accounts left that don't have all skills at around the same general level, and even the ones that don't have the ability to Runespan the missing levels, it's not that slow even after the latest "nerf".

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People who train magic, since what you're proposing is basically like the merging of magic and runecrafting.

 

Jagex needs to make more radical changes akin to the Evolution of Combat. If they stay afraid of people who dislike change, we'll never see Runescape improve very much.

 

Even minuscule updates cause huge backlashes on the forums. Vocal minority or not, bigger changes (even if they are 100% for the better, such as the EoC) always create a lot of dispute.

 

Jagex just needs to ignore these nay-sayers and just focus on improving the game (and SoF, SGS, microtransaction bullshit too, of course). If totally reworking how Runecrafting works would improve the game, I'm all for it.

 

EoC isn't necessarily 100% for the better.

 

---

 

My idea was that imbuing items with magic power (imbuing staffs, tablets, etc) would all be runecrafting, but the casting of the spells is still magic.

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EoC isn't necessarily 100% for the better.

It's essentially a series of fixes for broken parts of the game. I mean yeah, a lot of people will throw a fit because they can't 1 hit their opponent or gain a giant advantage because their main gave their pure dragon claws, or even (and I've actually heard this one) the idle stance is different. Most of these people will never be happy no matter what because their rose tinted glasses are permanently bolted to their skull. Of course I'm not exactly unbiased here so if I'm missing something, I'd like to know, but I really can't find anything wrong with EoC that isn't rooted in personal opinion.

From the empty days of hope, deny the darkness
Follow my voice, we'll run far away from here

If only to hide, to escape this life
And live forever, forever in the sun

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I like how they lowered the damage of Barrage spells significantly. Now Barrage spells will only be used in AoE fights and Blitz spells will only be used in single target fights. I like that change.

 

They still need to take a look at the damage of spells, though. Lower level spells deal a lot more damage than higher level spells, which I'm pretty sure isn't supposed to happen. For example, Fire Wave does less damage than Air Wave. SoA with an ABS does the most single target damage, followed by Divine Storm.

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EoC isn't necessarily 100% for the better.

It's essentially a series of fixes for broken parts of the game. I mean yeah, a lot of people will throw a fit because they can't 1 hit their opponent or gain a giant advantage because their main gave their pure dragon claws, or even (and I've actually heard this one) the idle stance is different. Most of these people will never be happy no matter what because their rose tinted glasses are permanently bolted to their skull. Of course I'm not exactly unbiased here so if I'm missing something, I'd like to know, but I really can't find anything wrong with EoC that isn't rooted in personal opinion.

 

Have you seen the female heads already?

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Have you seen the female heads already?

As someone who agrees with most of the complaints on the graphical side of things, the complaints aren't really about the idle stance being different, but the fact that the idle stance (and character models in general - both sexes) just aren't that good.

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EoC isn't necessarily 100% for the better.

It's essentially a series of fixes for broken parts of the game. I mean yeah, a lot of people will throw a fit because they can't 1 hit their opponent or gain a giant advantage because their main gave their pure dragon claws, or even (and I've actually heard this one) the idle stance is different. Most of these people will never be happy no matter what because their rose tinted glasses are permanently bolted to their skull. Of course I'm not exactly unbiased here so if I'm missing something, I'd like to know, but I really can't find anything wrong with EoC that isn't rooted in personal opinion.

 

Have you seen the female heads already?

 

Yes, they're pretty stupid looking though I still prefer the new models to the old sway-with-the-wind-while-rocking-head ones.

From the empty days of hope, deny the darkness
Follow my voice, we'll run far away from here

If only to hide, to escape this life
And live forever, forever in the sun

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At the moment burst spells are more accurate and do more damage than barrage. Training magic via ss bursting on ape atoll is around 2m/hr with burst, and around 1.6m/hr with barrage. I have no idea how they managed to [rooster] that up.

Also, if you don't 'tag' a slayer monster before your cannon or titan kills it, you now only get half slayer xp for that kill. Unless Jagex want to turn slayer into stand under the cannon and hit everything once then spam magic abilities because they're so powerful the combat triangle becomes irrelevant again, then by all means. Otherwise a fix would be nice.

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EoC isn't necessarily 100% for the better.

It's essentially a series of fixes for broken parts of the game. I mean yeah, a lot of people will throw a fit because they can't 1 hit their opponent or gain a giant advantage because their main gave their pure dragon claws, or even (and I've actually heard this one) the idle stance is different. Most of these people will never be happy no matter what because their rose tinted glasses are permanently bolted to their skull. Of course I'm not exactly unbiased here so if I'm missing something, I'd like to know, but I really can't find anything wrong with EoC that isn't rooted in personal opinion.

 

Many of the ideas and goals of EoC are great. I dislike the ability interface, though at least they cleaned up adding abilites to the bar. I don't like the way I feel like I am button mashing to perform abilties and an obscene rate. I would prefer some sort of queue where you can put a limited number onto the bar, and keep adding as it becomes empty, and they fire off the queue one at a time...

 

Right now, I feel like I have to mash buttons constantly in order to not miss firing an ability

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it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

 

Don't judge the wilderness when you don't use it for its main function. You have no idea what you're on about.

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it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

 

Don't judge the wilderness when you don't use it for its main function. You have no idea what you're on about.

 

What is its main function then?

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it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

 

Don't judge the wilderness when you don't use it for its main function. You have no idea what you're on about.

 

Nothing new there.

You make it sound like running through a few level 87 monsters is hard which it really shouldn't be at your level.

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it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

 

Don't judge the wilderness when you don't use it for its main function. You have no idea what you're on about.

 

Just because it's main function is for pking doesn't make it any less stupid and douche-like to active hunt people doing clues or agility or abyss rcing or lurk in pengs chats to slay peng hunters or to go out with like your entire clan so you can lure and 'own' unarmed people on their own but immediately run away if they have any strength.

Yes there has always been these douche-issues but back in the good old days, in my experience, the majority were more interested in fair-ish equal fights and many even ignored or protected people in the wilderness un-armed for non-pking purposes. Where as now the majority appear interested in the "glory" of "owning" people who having nothing worthwhile to drop and have no chance at all of surviving.

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it would also take away alot danger in the wilderness.

 

IMO: Win. I don't like the wilderness, because the only people in there a lot are penguin hunters, and people killing them. Fewer people who can attack me is nice.

 

Tbh I totally agree, I would not give a shite if the wilderness went away again.

As much as people whined and wanted it back even with it back it's utter tripe.

Long gone are the days of honour where pkers would (in general) defend or ignore people obviously doing clues or agility or w/e and would aim for decent battles from which they would not flee. Now we have a bunch of kids 'owning' unarmed skillers and peng hunters by piling them 50:1 and that's about it.

 

Don't judge the wilderness when you don't use it for its main function. You have no idea what you're on about.

 

Just because it's main function is for pking doesn't make it any less stupid and douche-like to active hunt people doing clues or agility or abyss rcing or lurk in pengs chats to slay peng hunters or to go out with like your entire clan so you can lure and 'own' unarmed people on their own but immediately run away if they have any strength.

Yes there has always been these douche-issues but back in the good old days, in my experience, the majority were more interested in fair-ish equal fights and many even ignored or protected people in the wilderness un-armed for non-pking purposes. Where as now the majority appear interested in the "glory" of "owning" people who having nothing worthwhile to drop and have no chance at all of surviving.

 

You seem to be under the impression Jagex accidentally put clues/agility/the abyss etc in the wilderness. Let me correct you, they did not. Those activities were put there with the intention of PKers making it difficult for you. Since you're no longer labouring under that delusion I presume you now agree with me; you don't know know what you're talking about.

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I think the wilderness being non-dangerous for close to 3 years has really shown its effects. In the past you'd worry about 4 iteming when you had a co-ordinate clue to do ... and then later somewhere along the way people expected to be able to get their wildy pengs without any fuss at all.

 

I remember the day when Bounty Hunter was released. Some guy had planted over 50 flowers outside the BH crater. That would have been unthinkable by any stretch before then, whereas now ...

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Just because it's supposed to be dangerous doesn't change the fact it's kinda douchey for a fully geared out pker to intentionally hunt down entirely unarmed people who pose no challenge and hav nothing to drop.

 

I just miss the old days where often pkers would have a sense of honour and such and ignore such people, opposed to new pkers who seem to do nothing but hunt such people down.

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I have to agree, it's pretty sad when I go to revs in a beta world and still get pked.

From the empty days of hope, deny the darkness
Follow my voice, we'll run far away from here

If only to hide, to escape this life
And live forever, forever in the sun

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I have to agree, it's pretty sad when I go to revs in a beta world and still get pked.

That's what happens when you give everyone but mainly 'leet pkers' free Torva/Pernix/Virtus, nearly unlimited food/pots/runes/summon pouches etc. and every weapon under the sun or ways to make nearly unlimited gp for buying such weapons from other 'leet pkers'.

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I think the wilderness being non-dangerous for close to 3 years has really shown its effects. In the past you'd worry about 4 iteming when you had a co-ordinate clue to do ... and then later somewhere along the way people expected to be able to get their wildy pengs without any fuss at all.

There's also the matter of power creep. During those three years (and beyond) we got a lot of new overpowered weapons and the old ones got cheaper (Imagine if those guys that hunted clue scrollers in 2006 had claws). That gap's only going to increase more with EoC when you'll need armor in order to survive more than one hit, which only makes you more of a target for PKers.

 

Just something that they really should look into. Forcing skillers into the Wilderness for mundane tasks wasn't a popular mechanic back before their wilderness changes (Except, unsurprisingly, among PKers), and it's definitely not going to be popular now that they have to risk their combat gear.

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I think the wilderness being non-dangerous for close to 3 years has really shown its effects. In the past you'd worry about 4 iteming when you had a co-ordinate clue to do ... and then later somewhere along the way people expected to be able to get their wildy pengs without any fuss at all.

 

I remember the day when Bounty Hunter was released. Some guy had planted over 50 flowers outside the BH crater. That would have been unthinkable by any stretch before then, whereas now ...

 

Fully agree with this. I think to many of you look back with to much nostalgia. For example, remember rc pkers? Or let's go back to the wildy agility course, where the news post out right stated it was put there with the intention of pkers targeting skillers. And what about rune rocks? That was the intention of putting the abyss guy, agility, and rune rocks (and everything else; clues pengs etc) right in the middle of the most populated pk area (Edgeville).

 

Is it "douchy" of pkers to kill people in the wild that are not pking? Maybe. But coming from someone who's been around for a little while, and never really pked myself, this is how it was meant to be and how it should be.

 

Wild is for killing players, it's part of the risk and part of the effort of doing pengs and clues and everything else non-pkers do. I'd venture to say it's even become to safe. No one mines rune rocks anymore, and few to none use the abyss to rc (and few pk them when they do use it), the items needed to do clues are junk now more then ever, and doing pengs requires junk/nothing. Let's even add gravestones to this, another item that made rs a hell of a lot safer. I appreciate them, but I also kinda would not mind them being nerfed a bit or even taken away.

I am not a skiller, but i do some skills.

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Wild is for killing players, it's part of the risk and part of the effort of doing pengs and clues and everything else non-pkers do. I'd venture to say it's even become to safe. No one mines rune rocks anymore, and few to none use the abyss to rc (and few pk them when they do use it), the items needed to do clues are junk now more then ever, and doing pengs requires junk/nothing. Let's even add gravestones to this, another item that made rs a hell of a lot safer. I appreciate them, but I also kinda would not mind them being nerfed a bit or even taken away.

Aren't you looking back with nostalgia here, though? :razz:

 

It's outdated. The game has changed too much for them to throw content aimed at non-PKers into the wilderness and call it 'balanced'. It was never really balanced to begin with. Skillers only entered the wilderness because Jagex put the only bearable parts of otherwise painful skills in there (mining, RC, early agility), it shouldn't be surprising that when something else came along it would get abandoned.

 

The whole risk-reward thing they were trying to build up was never balanced. Skillers' risk was too high for the reward, PKers' didn't really have to risk anything. It's not a good design for a game where not everyone is a PKer, and it never was. Nostalgia prevents people from seeing that.

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...Wild is for killing players...

 

Then how come they mainly focus on getting skillers and not player killers into the wilderness? Pkers get things like the crucible and bounty hunter with convenient banks and safe zones, and skillers get to chop trees in the middle of an open field, or run the gauntlet of ancient mages trying to craft the same runes being used against them. Yeah yeah, risk vs reward. The same risk from which death follows only under extreme circumstances for a boss hunter who stands to make millions, but looms ever present for someone looking for penguin points worth ~2k xp. The "balance" here has been gone for years, but forcing players in front of a firing squad in order to get their 15k rune ore just creates frustration, not rewarding gameplay.

From the empty days of hope, deny the darkness
Follow my voice, we'll run far away from here

If only to hide, to escape this life
And live forever, forever in the sun

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Then how come they mainly focus on getting skillers and not player killers into the wilderness?

 

Just because that's the only thing you experience as a skiller does not mean it's the only thing pkers ever do. I suspect that if you even bothered to look into pking, you'd be very surprised.

 

EDIT: I can't even believe you cited rune rocks pking as a means of vilifying pkers. Seriously? It's not like there aren't at least a dozen different safe spots available to them or anything. And if you get pked on f2p while at rr by anything less than a clan then you deserved to die. I mean, wow. I didn't know this was still a problem in 2012.

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