01 Sept, 2012 - Behind the Scenes September

[Alg]

I should hope they'll be exporting graves to right outside the boss room with the update, and especially if there's an instance option. It's more of a legacy situation than legitimate challenge or risk to have graves appear in the boss room.

If there's an instance option, it would probably be required.

[Sir_Squab]

When it comes to gwd i went there as a low level and got crashed, so I trained and trained and went back. Now no one crashes me and it's a lot more boring with no competition, i don't think instancing it would be good for the game just for the sake of competition.

I don't think instancing the bosses is necessarily the right way to go, because it introduces a lot of issues. However, I feel like the current state is pretty bad. Problem is that a solution is difficult because it requires balancing of many different concerns.

 

All I am trying to do is point out flaws in the current system.

 

Imo, an instanced GW is a hell of a lot better then what we currently have. It's not ideal, but it would probably be relatively easy to implement and would be a definite improvement. (I'm also not against the price of it dropping.)

 

Things I can think of when designing an instanced version of God Wars:

 

- How would teams work? Are they in a clan chat? Does Lootshare have to factor in to this? What about casuals that spontaneously want to form a group?

- How would death work? Does the dead player stand a chance to rejoin the same instance? (I can see a lot of pain here.)

- How long would it take to implement? Who would benefit the most from it? What's the return on investment for this development?

- Would a shared-instance world be more suitable to this, to allow for more flexible spontaneous teams?

- How would kill count work? (I believe it's reduced to 10 after/during EoC.) Would you be in an instanced variant of the boss's anteroom? Would you be able to gather killcount uninterrupted from players?

 

Mountain of technical questions here, my friend. Death, especially, would be the largest sticking point. Notwithstanding a few low to moderate technical hurdles, of course.

 

This took less then 5 minutes to think up:

 

Most of GW is the same. However, there is a double door to get to the boss - first requires KC, second door is there just so that you have a little safe area for forming parities and such, in a similar fashion to DG. This is also where gravestones would appear. Kill count would remain the same. Players who died would have an option to return to their instance after trying to pass through the second door into the boss chamber as long as at least one player is there, assuming that this can be programmed with relative ease.

 

How long to implement: Not too too long, seeing as pretty much everything here is something that is already in the game. Who would benefit? Lots of players. Anyone who would like to do GW but can't because it's always crowded. Return on the investment - make players happy.

 

No idea if a shared-instance world would be more suitable. However, if the benefit of a shared-instanced world is more flexible teams, I'm leaning towards no, because doing team activities with randoms usually causes headaches.

 

The few questions I don't have answers for, I'd expect actual Jagex employees to be able to answer with relative ease. They could implement something to track how crowded GW is to see if this is a good idea, maybe poll players or something, and they have more technical information then I do.

 

To the best of my limited understanding this is something that would be highly valued by many players and would not be too difficult to implement. However, it goes without saying that I'm not a Jagex mod and there's a lot of things about this that I'm in the dark about.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I replied to this here...but this may not be the best place for it. If you'd like to continue discussing it, we can take it to PM. As a software developer, there's just a lot that I'd have to consider before I started implementing this...and, as always, if I'm taking the time to design and implement it, that's a cost to the company.

 

This took less then 5 minutes to think up:

 

Most of GW is the same. However, there is a double door to get to the boss - first requires KC, second door is there just so that you have a little safe area for forming parities and such, in a similar fashion to DG. This is also where gravestones would appear. Kill count would remain the same. Players who died would have an option to return to their instance after trying to pass through the second door into the boss chamber as long as at least one player is there, assuming that this can be programmed with relative ease.

 

How long to implement: Not too too long, seeing as pretty much everything here is something that is already in the game. Who would benefit? Lots of players. Anyone who would like to do GW but can't because it's always crowded. Return on the investment - make players happy.

 

No idea if a shared-instance world would be more suitable. However, if the benefit of a shared-instanced world is more flexible teams, I'm leaning towards no, because doing team activities with randoms usually causes headaches.

 

The few questions I don't have answers for, I'd expect actual Jagex employees to be able to answer with relative ease. They could implement something to track how crowded GW is to see if this is a good idea, maybe poll players or something, and they have more technical information then I do.

 

To the best of my limited understanding this is something that would be highly valued by many players and would not be too difficult to implement. However, it goes without saying that I'm not a Jagex mod and there's a lot of things about this that I'm in the dark about.

 

Double-door design is flawed, since the blanket assumption about player stability, wealth, and technical constraints can't be made. Even if the KC was 10, I'd still have to regain that just to get through the first set of doors. While gravestones last a lot longer than they used to, if they're going to be used, they should be used in a manner that causes the player the least pain. I mean, they just died - let them get a reasonable crack at getting their stuff back. A disconnect would throw a few dozen spanners in the works; if they were on an instanced team, and they disconnect, how would the system react? It's not that much different than someone logging out, which would likely mean exclusion from the team. Lastly, suppose the player used the best weapons they had, or the only God-item they had to prevent damage. Getting KC would be a bit tougher for them, and cause more pain than necessary.

 

The time to implement this can never be assumed to be "not too long". It's one of those mistakes in the industry that we always underestimate tasks - this could easily be a huge undertaking.

 

I would estimate that about 30-35% of all active members are eligible to participate in God Wars Dungeon in some capacity, yet maybe half of that actually go through to boss fights. Even less so are those that go after Nex, as ~57,770 players would qualify for the most optimal equipment, yet I'd estimate that less than 10% of that would venture to Nex regularly with a group. That leaves me with...what...7,000 players that would get the maximum benefit from this, and roughly 300,000 total players that would benefit in some way from this update. That's only 15% of the player base - admittedly a large chunk. I can't say it'd be beneficial, as not that many players would go through the boss fights - may are content to harvest Adamant from Aviansies. (Unless this has changed, or I'm showing my age.)

 

Crowded is also subjective, as this may mean crowded at the boss or crowded at a particular NPC spot. Using instances may address both, but to do both, that would be a technical miracle - instancing out NPCs much like farming patches...then you deal with the logistics of teammates and aid again!

 

I wouldn't expect Jagex to be able to answer these questions without placing monitoring hooks into the code, which is another cost (development time is money), and it may not return anything fruitful. Conversely, it would be less costly to implement the hooks than instancing; you would get a feel for if this is worth it or not.

[Fielmann]

learn to read before calling people retarded.

Saying

idea sounds [---] retarded

is not the same as calling people retarded.

 

As for your point, I do acknowledge that Jagex are doing something to fight the bots. The problem is that in addition to this they also spend huge amount of resources onto PRing this fight. From the sound of it the Botany Bay seems another one of these publicity stunts with woodoo-style vengeance as a bonus. To me it just isn't worthy content. I realise that publicity is important and I'm not questioning their decisions business-wise. But from the players' (or at least from my) POV the resources would be better spent on the actual bot-fight or game design.

 

 

 

What I actively dislike is the daily challenges thing. I feel strongly that all these daily/weekly/monthly activities take away from players' freedom and quietly enslave them to the game.

 

...what? Those challenges are suggestions, not requirements. It's an attempt to alleviate boredom so players *can* use their freedom to play the game without it getting monotonous.

Completing the challenges is required for receiving the rewards and for having the challenge ticked off the list. This is enough to make players feel compelled to do them. Daily.

[Estoc]

Wasn't there a "challenges" option on the old goal system? The one where it would randomly generate boxes with either "level up x skill" or "complete x quest" on it?

 

 

I replied to this here...but this may not be the best place for it. If you'd like to continue discussing it, we can take it to PM. As a software developer, there's just a lot that I'd have to consider before I started implementing this...and, as always, if I'm taking the time to design and implement it, that's a cost to the company.

 

This took less then 5 minutes to think up:

 

Most of GW is the same. However, there is a double door to get to the boss - first requires KC, second door is there just so that you have a little safe area for forming parities and such, in a similar fashion to DG. This is also where gravestones would appear. Kill count would remain the same. Players who died would have an option to return to their instance after trying to pass through the second door into the boss chamber as long as at least one player is there, assuming that this can be programmed with relative ease.

 

How long to implement: Not too too long, seeing as pretty much everything here is something that is already in the game. Who would benefit? Lots of players. Anyone who would like to do GW but can't because it's always crowded. Return on the investment - make players happy.

 

No idea if a shared-instance world would be more suitable. However, if the benefit of a shared-instanced world is more flexible teams, I'm leaning towards no, because doing team activities with randoms usually causes headaches.

 

The few questions I don't have answers for, I'd expect actual Jagex employees to be able to answer with relative ease. They could implement something to track how crowded GW is to see if this is a good idea, maybe poll players or something, and they have more technical information then I do.

 

To the best of my limited understanding this is something that would be highly valued by many players and would not be too difficult to implement. However, it goes without saying that I'm not a Jagex mod and there's a lot of things about this that I'm in the dark about.

 

Double-door design is flawed, since the blanket assumption about player stability, wealth, and technical constraints can't be made. Even if the KC was 10, I'd still have to regain that just to get through the first set of doors. While gravestones last a lot longer than they used to, if they're going to be used, they should be used in a manner that causes the player the least pain. I mean, they just died - let them get a reasonable crack at getting their stuff back. A disconnect would throw a few dozen spanners in the works; if they were on an instanced team, and they disconnect, how would the system react? It's not that much different than someone logging out, which would likely mean exclusion from the team. Lastly, suppose the player used the best weapons they had, or the only God-item they had to prevent damage. Getting KC would be a bit tougher for them, and cause more pain than necessary.

 

The time to implement this can never be assumed to be "not too long". It's one of those mistakes in the industry that we always underestimate tasks - this could easily be a huge undertaking.

 

I would estimate that about 30-35% of all active members are eligible to participate in God Wars Dungeon in some capacity, yet maybe half of that actually go through to boss fights. Even less so are those that go after Nex, as ~57,770 players would qualify for the most optimal equipment, yet I'd estimate that less than 10% of that would venture to Nex regularly with a group. That leaves me with...what...7,000 players that would get the maximum benefit from this, and roughly 300,000 total players that would benefit in some way from this update. That's only 15% of the player base - admittedly a large chunk. I can't say it'd be beneficial, as not that many players would go through the boss fights - may are content to harvest Adamant from Aviansies. (Unless this has changed, or I'm showing my age.)

 

Crowded is also subjective, as this may mean crowded at the boss or crowded at a particular NPC spot. Using instances may address both, but to do both, that would be a technical miracle - instancing out NPCs much like farming patches...then you deal with the logistics of teammates and aid again!

 

I wouldn't expect Jagex to be able to answer these questions without placing monitoring hooks into the code, which is another cost (development time is money), and it may not return anything fruitful. Conversely, it would be less costly to implement the hooks than instancing; you would get a feel for if this is worth it or not.

 

 

It's a solid option for an update a lot of players would take part in. If it proves impossible then so be it, but I don't see how it would considering there are many instanced bosses along with some instanced team areas, dungeoneering, stealing creation and clan citadels being a few.

[Urza285]

Imagine this...

 

You have just found a group of people willing to join your team for a run at Bandos stronghold where you'll undoubtably face off against his toughest general Graardor and his sergeants.

 

After donning your gear and making the long arduous hike through trollheim and into the bowls of the icy mountains you make your last and most grave preparation. You dig into your pockets and pull out your favored trinket that has brought you much luck. Historians dredge the depths of time when the world was wrought with feud. Those times were grim and breaking oaths meant death! Lore refered to a bauble mercenaries called the Bloodpact totem. These mercenaries would swear an oath placed within and if broken would face revenge sevenfold. You plunge the trinket into the farthest reaches of your vest hoping for the best.

 

Far off in the distance a group of men in heavy intimidating armor sit atop a windswept rocky post. These men all stern and of grave matters discuss their plans. Then silence sweeps in as they all gather themselves and make their way down the boulderous terrain and into the ices lands. One by one they go down a mysterious, but ominous cavern by rope. The echos of battle cries and the clashings of beasts can be heart. The warriors knew what they were getting themselves into.

 

As the last of the men slip maneuver down the rope into the ice laden icy temple. Several of the warriors stoop to take a look around to be sure they weren't spotted. Some distance above the throngs of battle rests an ancient landing dedicated to the arrival of some potent being... Who knowing long past into the sands of time. On this landing are four pillars etched with ancient symbols, worlds, phrases and maybe even spells. The warriors gather and once again all pull forth similar trinkets as before bringing them together. Then te men begin muttering to themselves, but all the same words from different mouths... An oath sworn in to bind their souls together. As the warriors mutter the last words of the oath they unravel their whips and unsheathe their swords. Now begins their battle as they file down one of the four wide step paths leading down the landing and into the bloody floors below.

 

The Bloodpact totem acts very much similar to a ring of kinsmanship. If you click on the Bloodpact totem a new tab will appear on your tab bar. Within this tab you can create a party by hitting the "form party" button. From there you will be granted the ability to right click and invite friends at certain locations. Players who want to be invited should make note that they should have their own Bloodpact totem so they can link themselves with a party should they leave an instance via death or disconnection. Don't worry as the Bloodpact totem is a keep on death item. Party forming locations are located:

 

- Anywhere within the second cave of the corporal beasts cavern.

- Anywhere between the four posts on the god wars dungeon landing (safe zone that is slightly expansive and risen above the battleground).

- the nature spirits guard post above Nex prison (expansion of area made due to required room for players).

- Shantay pass.

- The King Black Dragons alcove (a new safe zone area for parties).

 

Once parties are formed the leader will ask players to go into their Bloodpact totem tab and hit the "ready" button. Once all members do so then the leader can enter. The leader has two options when entering the room: A. Click "enter" on the doorway, cave, etc. or B. click "enter as party" to sent the whole party into the safe zone of the instance. The leader will then be prompted that they would be entering a dangerous and instanced area and to confirm.

 

Once inside the instance the party would spawn themselves inside a safe zone room. These rooms are designed to have an exit point to regular servers and an entry point to the boss room. Players have to enter through a passage that lets people in, but not out to abuse the safe zone for initial entry. If a player tries going through the boss door they will immediately suffer a 5 minute cool down before entering the room again.

 

[Quyneax]

Each boss has an element of challenge in them.

 

At tormented demons, it's the switching, titan management, luring etc.

For Nex, it's avoiding the specials.

For Dagannoth Kings, it's about luring, managing aggressiveness and conserving supplies as much as possible.

For the QBD, it's avoiding the specs, much like Nex.

For the Kiln, it's about luring, aggro, prayer switching, switching, titan management etc.

For GWD, it's about getting as much offensive power as possible into that 20 seconds every two minutes to steal the kill.

 

If you remove some or all of these elements, you break down the boss and it becomes a slayer monster. Dagannoth Kings are almost there already, but still reasonably challenging to tribrid - great boss design, that it can grow with so many game updates and still be good. GWD hasn't aged nearly as well because it's much more about raw power, and the bosses have never been updated.

 

I think the key element of GWD, the one thing that makes (Graardor at least) difficult to kill consistently, is the competition. Removing that takes away the boss and puts a relatively boring, unprofitable random mob in its place, much like the KBD.

 

@The argument that Bandos is overpriced: compared to the xp needed to get 98-99 strength, it's actually pretty cheap.

[Yoko Kurama]

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

I tend to agree with your analysis of the situation, the extravagant prices are indeed ridiculous and unreasonable. However, I think there are a couple of better solutions, in no particular order:

• actually make skills be profitable once more(some are,most aren't, they are money drains)
  
• tie high level gear to quests or possibly dungeoneerning
  
• have bosses similar to dungeoneering or Dominion tower, where perhaps you raid with a team and after you have obtained some level of progress are gauranteed drops
  
• Greatly increase the supply of said drops so that armour pieces are actually affordable
  

There was a short period of time in RS where certain skills were extremely profitable(see: Bluerose and here smithing cartel) but that situation was not sustainable due to the inevitability of more players getting 99 smithing, monster drops and poor design. Then there was a short period, before and after barrows were introduced where Rune armour was extremely affordable, and dragon armour(there were only 2-3 pieces released at that time) which was only marginally better was somewhat pricey but still supremely affordable. Then came barrows, and also D legs/skirt(around the same time), and they too while being pricey weren't exorbitantly expensive, and after a little while become even more affordable. Around the same time, the soon-to-be burgeoning RWT industry wasn't that successful, RS gold was going for as high as 5-20$ per mil, because there just wasn't that much of it around. The game state was much better then in this regard. Party hats aside, people with a modest amount of work were usually able to get the gear appropriate to their level and what not.

 

Now the best armours are ludicrously expensive and effectively out of the reach of the players for whom they were allegedly designed, and for players who meet the requirements. It's absurd to think that you need to grind away for hundreds of hours to get the best stuff at monotonous activities. It's like Livid Farm/Temple Trekking etc., where you do unbearably idiotic shit for the rewards. That sort of game model is horrendous; where they only way they can make money from you is by incentivizing you to engage in long and boring activities so that you will be a member for long periods of time and they can rake in P2P money. We need a more reasonable and enjoyable game model with regards to gear any money. I have a few extremely high level friends who got hacked, lost their stuff, it's mind boggling to think that people who are literally maxed and have spent thousands upon thousands of hours and the real life equivalent of thousands of dollars, the only way they can get the gear suited to their levels is to grind for hundreds of more hours. They are now selling Dungeons and what not to make money. The game should not be this way. By making the game more reasonable, you can eliminate a lot of the need for RWTing in the first place, have a healthier player base and a more enjoyable game environment. It's all a pipe dream, of course.

[Stev]

I think jagex could make a binding item like the ring of kinsmanship that binds players together. How about an item called the Bloodpact Totem. The item could have a similar interface as the ring of kinsmanship. Instead you'd have options to make a party, turn coin share on, turn loot share on and maybe an option to turn on legend mode (if jagex every makes harder versions of bosses).

 

Other then an item taking up inventory/equipped space, I love that idea.

 

Coming from the guy who brings full Pernix + Red Chinchompas to Bandos for 1 minute kill-count... :P.

[Thus]

 

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

Or those players can learn to play the game. Money is way too easy to make. I've gone from 0gp to Nex set (with divine) twice. It isn't hard, just everyone wants instant gratification which is not how life works.

[Hedgehog]

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

Or those players can learn to play the game. Money is way too easy to make. I've gone from 0gp to Nex set (with divine) twice. It isn't hard, just everyone wants instant gratification which is not how life works.

The ease of money making isn't really relevant. It's the time it takes to earn it. At 5m gp/hour, you're looking at around 93 hours for full pernix. That's really not a long time, but you can do so many things in 93 hours.

[Stev]

I agree, Thus. Nex armors have gone down enough in price to be accessible enough. Befoore I quit, I was happy to pay 1.5B for the bonuses Pernix offered. I came back, it's cheaper then Torva and it's only 468M for the set.

 

Nex can be done in Armadyl and general GWD gear. People who have such gear can easily make as much as those of us with Nex armors and spirit shields. The only exceptions being larger stakes and more to fall back on.

 

Like Thus, I've gone from excess of 30B, down to 500K, and back again multiple times. It's easy enough if you're willing to accept a little more risk for the reward. This isn't only about staking/PKing. If you're willing to risk higher gears, chaotics, etc while bossing, you'll make more due to better DPS.

 

Eh, I'm tired and rambling, but I'm sure you get the idea. :P.

[Alg]

The ease of money making isn't really relevant. It's the time it takes to earn it. At 5m gp/hour, you're looking at around 93 hours for full pernix. That's really not a long time, but you can do so many things in 93 hours.

This is probably the thing that keeps us (collectively) from understanding one another.

 

It's not about instant gratification, there's just a point where you have to ask whether the game requires too much grinding. I'm fine with the fact that it takes time to get high levels until the game requires more time than I've spent on Skyrim for just one or two skills, especially given how easy it is to find cheap entertainment nowadays.

[Platinum_Myr]

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

Or those players can learn to play the game. Money is way too easy to make. I've gone from 0gp to Nex set (with divine) twice. It isn't hard, just everyone wants instant gratification which is not how life works.

 

Not everyone knows secret magic to earn money like you do. Some of us choose not to use methods that we feel would devalue our own experience (and yes I know you can just reply to this with "then gtfo")

[Pirkka]

 

Kril's bodyguards.

[Artemis1330]

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

Or those players can learn to play the game. Money is way too easy to make. I've gone from 0gp to Nex set (with divine) twice. It isn't hard, just everyone wants instant gratification which is not how life works.

 

Not everyone knows secret magic to earn money like you do. Some of us choose not to use methods that we feel would devalue our own experience (and yes I know you can just reply to this with "then gtfo")

 

Secret magic? Ge merching, qbd, nex, frosts, etc etc is secret magic? Go look on youtube, there are hundreds of vids on that stuff (and you don't need a bil to do any of those). Even slayer is still profitable, using overloads/turmoil/cannon. ( I mention slayer because you need to train combat to wear combat gear.)

[Estoc]

The main problem I see is that people are basing their argument on their own character and experience. If you can make 5m/hr then great, but you're not the player group instancing gwd bosses would target. Of course it won't be the best option for you personally, but for the people who do things like barrows for money it will be a great opportunity.

 

 

 

 

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

Or those players can learn to play the game. Money is way too easy to make. I've gone from 0gp to Nex set (with divine) twice. It isn't hard, just everyone wants instant gratification which is not how life works.

 

Not everyone knows secret magic to earn money like you do. Some of us choose not to use methods that we feel would devalue our own experience (and yes I know you can just reply to this with "then gtfo")

 

Secret magic? Ge merching, qbd, nex, frosts, etc etc is secret magic? Go look on youtube, there are hundreds of vids on that stuff (and you don't need a bil to do any of those). Even slayer is still profitable, using overloads/turmoil/cannon. ( I mention slayer because you need to train combat to wear combat gear.)

 

 

 

For the people who want to do gwd but have no chance because of crashing, things like nex and qbd might as well be secret magic.

[Kimberly]

Secret magic? Ge merching, qbd, nex, frosts, etc etc is secret magic? Go look on youtube, there are hundreds of vids on that stuff (and you don't need a bil to do any of those). Even slayer is still profitable, using overloads/turmoil/cannon. ( I mention slayer because you need to train combat to wear combat gear.)

 

Woosh You missed the point of what he was trying to say.

 

And wait, how exactly is slayer profitable if you're burning through cannon and overloads? Turming every task is common sense but there's no way you could profit on slayer going for the best kills per hr.

[Pirkka]

New quest concept art.

[Jon Arcane]

 

Kril's bodyguards.

 

Looks like they are becoming Black Demons?

[Alg]

Kril's bodyguards.

My first thought was "D'aww, cute". I'm not sure what that says about me.

 

Definitely an improvement over the current demon designs (sans dungeoneering bosses), though.

[Artemis1330]

Secret magic? Ge merching, qbd, nex, frosts, etc etc is secret magic? Go look on youtube, there are hundreds of vids on that stuff (and you don't need a bil to do any of those). Even slayer is still profitable, using overloads/turmoil/cannon. ( I mention slayer because you need to train combat to wear combat gear.)

 

Woosh You missed the point of what he was trying to say.

 

And wait, how exactly is slayer profitable if you're burning through cannon and overloads? Turming every task is common sense but there's no way you could profit on slayer going for the best kills per hr.

 

The point I got was anything that devalues his gaming experience is secret magic. And if the things I stated devalue his gaming experience, then it's obvious why he can't afford certain gear.

 

And slayer is profitable because p pots are somthing around 2-3k each, cballs are about 250, and one overload is 50-60k. Overload price is arguable anyway, due to the experience gained from making them. That is, very roughly, 265k per hour. I am not counting cannon because you can't cannon every task and cannon usage depends highly on player preference (for example: are you cannoning dark beast or killing in the dg? yes it's faster to cannon but few do) . I also did not mention going for best kills per hour, as few to none do that and even know how. That entails using soa and spec restores, etc.

 

edit- and when I mention not counting cannon due to not being able to cannon each task, the reason is I do not have up to date numbers on percentage of tasks you can and cannot cannon, therefore can't get numbers on cost/hour.

[Pirkka]

Botany bay concept art.

[Ruinous Edge]

Botany bay concept art.

I called Mr Mordaut :D (few pages back), nice fist of Guthix I'm guessing, hope they make a ban hammer animation still.

[Alg]

And slayer is profitable because p pots are somthing around 2-3k each, cballs are about 250, and one overload is 50-60k. Overload price is arguable anyway, due to the experience gained from making them. That is, very roughly, 265k per hour. I am not counting cannon because you can't cannon every task and cannon usage depends highly on player preference (for example: are you cannoning dark beast or killing in the dg? yes it's faster to cannon but few do) . I also did not mention going for best kills per hour, as few to none do that and even know how. That entails using soa and spec restores, etc.

Would I be allowed to use the term "out of touch" here? Because the kinds of players that have trouble making money are the ones that don't have access to any of that.

 

The problem isn't making money once you've reached the top, it's getting the money you need to get there in the first place.