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Urza285

Vorago Teaser - June 24th

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It better drops upgrade kits for virtus book/wand.

I really, really hope that it doesn't.

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It better drops upgrade kits for virtus book/wand.

I really, really hope that it doesn't.

And I'll laugh at all the people who broke bank on the wand and book.

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Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]

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It better drops upgrade kits for virtus book/wand.

I really, really hope that it doesn't.

And I'll laugh at all the people who broke bank on the wand and book.

and the kits are purely cosmetic*

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let's make the quest stories of ancients & lunar completely void of anything shall we? The story clearly tells about the choice of different means of living to get to lunar/magic levels. It is indicated quite often that you can't use lunar magic while not being "enlightend"... Don't forget that roleplaying is still a large part of an role playing game.

Yes, let's. I think it makes no sense at all, and it certainly doesn't work for the combat triangle - giving up virtually all magic ability to be able to farm properly? Giving up all enchantments just to be able to mage properly? Farming, enchanting (smithing!) and combat are not things that should be mutually exclusive in any way.

 

In the end, we only pray at an altar to switch spellbooks. There is absolutely no 'different means of living' (I think you mean ways of living?) - people on lunars can still massacre non-magic bosses plenty well, and they do, and it doesn't affect their ability to cast lunars at all. It's more likely that the Moonclan firmly believe that pacifism is required for Lunars because of historical/ideological reasons, and you, as outsider, come in and have no such compunctions about using combat magic with lunars. Sure, the Moonclan may not like it, but who cares, you got the spells, no need to enforce that pacifism on players.

 

Now Ancient Magic, that's different, because Zaros actually affects you directly, but there's no reason he couldn't give you access to Ancients while keeping your normal spells intact, it's just a matter of convincing him you're worth it (there are probably some magical secrets you can figure out combining Ancients with modern magical insights).

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Hope it actually takes a bunch of people and isn't duoed on the second day

It will be: solo, day one (if jagex will not add instant KO mechanic from KK).

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I would like to see a boss fight made difficult through use of actual mechanics, rather than an arbitrary amount of HP/damage or cheap tactics like constant stuns and 1 hit insta deaths no matter how much defence/lp you have.

 

Also it would be nice for shields to basically be a necessity for this boss. As in you need to use shield abilities regularly to make it through a kill, not just a quick switch every now and then.

 

Chris L also posted on the HLF that the drop mechanics will have a bit of a twist that would favour FFA teams.

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I would like to see a boss fight made difficult through use of actual mechanics, rather than an arbitrary amount of HP/damage or cheap tactics like constant stuns and 1 hit insta deaths no matter how much defence/lp you have.

 

Also it would be nice for shields to basically be a necessity for this boss. As in you need to use shield abilities regularly to make it through a kill, not just a quick switch every now and then.

 

Chris L also posted on the HLF that the drop mechanics will have a bit of a twist that would favour FFA teams.

Favour FFA teams?? I can't think of anything that would make FFA preferable other than items being worth more than listed in GE, which they usually always are on release.


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I would like to see a boss fight made difficult through use of actual mechanics, rather than an arbitrary amount of HP/damage or cheap tactics like constant stuns and 1 hit insta deaths no matter how much defence/lp you have.

 

Also it would be nice for shields to basically be a necessity for this boss. As in you need to use shield abilities regularly to make it through a kill, not just a quick switch every now and then.

 

Chris L also posted on the HLF that the drop mechanics will have a bit of a twist that would favour FFA teams.

 

I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?


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"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Use of environmental effects - e.g. since this is set in a cave, falling rocks that kind of thing that the player has to move out of the way of.

 

Use of defensive abilities - have the boss have something like reflect, to make players think more carefully about when they use abilities. (Nex and KK do this a bit, but having the damage reflected would make it more important)

 

Attacks that do more damage to people wearing gear of a certain class.

 

Locational damage - think the QBD super hot breath attack. But you could have a bit of a twist so that whilst this attack is active, if the player stands closer to the source of the damage, the player damage is also increased, meaning the player has to balance damage taken vs damage dealt.

 

A higher emphasis on DPS in aggro calculations (if one player can tank whilst the rest of the team just goes max DPS on the boss, it makes things unnecessarily easy.)

 

Minions/Adds that aren't completely trivial to deal with or completely ignorable. Perhaps have killing the minions be optional, but relate the boss's damage somehow to the number of minions (with a cap to) so that killing the minions will make the kill easier, but slower. E.g. if all minions are dead the boss deals 75% damage for the rest of the fight.

 

If the boss is magic based, have it be more susceptible to normal/ancient spells in different phases so your team requires players on both spellbooks.

 

Just off the top of my head :P

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Asmodean <3

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I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Use of environmental effects - e.g. since this is set in a cave, falling rocks that kind of thing that the player has to move out of the way of.

 

Use of defensive abilities - have the boss have something like reflect, to make players think more carefully about when they use abilities. (Nex and KK do this a bit, but having the damage reflected would make it more important)

 

Attacks that do more damage to people wearing gear of a certain class.

 

Locational damage - think the QBD super hot breath attack. But you could have a bit of a twist so that whilst this attack is active, if the player stands closer to the source of the damage, the player damage is also increased, meaning the player has to balance damage taken vs damage dealt.

 

A higher emphasis on DPS in aggro calculations (if one player can tank whilst the rest of the team just goes max DPS on the boss, it makes things unnecessarily easy.)

 

Minions/Adds that aren't completely trivial to deal with or completely ignorable. Perhaps have killing the minions be optional, but relate the boss's damage somehow to the number of minions (with a cap to) so that killing the minions will make the kill easier, but slower. E.g. if all minions are dead the boss deals 75% damage for the rest of the fight.

 

If the boss is magic based, have it be more susceptible to normal/ancient spells in different phases so your team requires players on both spellbooks.

 

Just off the top of my head :P

 

Okay. I understand what you mean now. So in summary a true high level team boss. One that requires different class of players despite the danger that one player class would have, or a boss that requires Nex/Port gear but not for faster kills but survival.


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"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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I think an interesting drop system would be to tier your drop based on your contribution to killing the boss. For instance, base loot for hitting the boss even once, then maybe access to a better drop table(s) after a certain amount of damage is dealt, and a special drop for the one who deals the killing blow and the one who deals the most damage.

 

To favour FFA teams, have LS teams count as a single entity that receives drops from different tables, and then their drops are split between them.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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It's interesting the favouring FFA teams comment.

 

This could be interpreted to mean it favours a team not using lootshare - ie 1 boss is better loot without using lootshare. It could also mean actual FFA teams, meaning the boss is worth more if only one person receives the drop.

 

Perhaps the twist is one great drop for the person who gets the kill, & small ones spread out amongst the rest. The lootshare team only getting the one big drop minus the small ones. And if done well, the small ones will feature unique drops unobtainable from the big drop.

 

PS Not sure if I've just rephrased Saradomin Mage above me, I didn't quite understand your last sentence.


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I would like to see a boss fight made difficult through use of actual mechanics, rather than an arbitrary amount of HP/damage or cheap tactics like constant stuns and 1 hit insta deaths no matter how much defence/lp you have.

 

Also it would be nice for shields to basically be a necessity for this boss. As in you need to use shield abilities regularly to make it through a kill, not just a quick switch every now and then.

 

Chris L also posted on the HLF that the drop mechanics will have a bit of a twist that would favour FFA teams.

 

I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Simply put, KK makes too little use of a fun mechanic (1hko) and too much use of a tired, clunky one (bubbles). Other than that it is basically KQ with more health and damage.


From the empty days of hope, deny the darkness
Follow my voice, we'll run far away from here

If only to hide, to escape this life
And live forever, forever in the sun

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Make it a pvp area: that would keep it a constant challenge, as someone might betray you.


First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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[hide]

 

I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Use of environmental effects - e.g. since this is set in a cave, falling rocks that kind of thing that the player has to move out of the way of.

 

Use of defensive abilities - have the boss have something like reflect, to make players think more carefully about when they use abilities. (Nex and KK do this a bit, but having the damage reflected would make it more important)

 

Attacks that do more damage to people wearing gear of a certain class.

 

Locational damage - think the QBD super hot breath attack. But you could have a bit of a twist so that whilst this attack is active, if the player stands closer to the source of the damage, the player damage is also increased, meaning the player has to balance damage taken vs damage dealt.

 

A higher emphasis on DPS in aggro calculations (if one player can tank whilst the rest of the team just goes max DPS on the boss, it makes things unnecessarily easy.)

 

Minions/Adds that aren't completely trivial to deal with or completely ignorable. Perhaps have killing the minions be optional, but relate the boss's damage somehow to the number of minions (with a cap to) so that killing the minions will make the kill easier, but slower. E.g. if all minions are dead the boss deals 75% damage for the rest of the fight.

 

If the boss is magic based, have it be more susceptible to normal/ancient spells in different phases so your team requires players on both spellbooks.

 

Just off the top of my head :P

[/hide]

It's important to think of the things that players can use: Abilities, prayers, style switching, movement, designated roles, food, familiars and cannons. Both monsters and players should be able to use all of these - boss mechanics will decide whether the cannon is worth it.

 

Monster health, autoattacks and defence are just ways to keep a constant pressure on the players. For example in pre-EoC Nex you saw that players were using the most tanky gear possible (Pernix, divine, even SoL tanks on ice phase) because the pressure was very high. Post-EoC Nex you see that only the tank really bothers (and helps the team, with Provoke and luring for example), the pressure is lower - also because Nex herself is less tanky, so phases are shorter.


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Make it a pvp area: that would keep it a constant challenge, as someone might betray you.

 

I don't like the sound of that at all :(

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Make it a pvp area: that would keep it a constant challenge, as people will betray each other solely for shits and giggles and nobody will ever manage to get the drops.

Fixed that for you.

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[hide]

[hide]

I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Use of environmental effects - e.g. since this is set in a cave, falling rocks that kind of thing that the player has to move out of the way of.

 

Use of defensive abilities - have the boss have something like reflect, to make players think more carefully about when they use abilities. (Nex and KK do this a bit, but having the damage reflected would make it more important)

 

Attacks that do more damage to people wearing gear of a certain class.

 

Locational damage - think the QBD super hot breath attack. But you could have a bit of a twist so that whilst this attack is active, if the player stands closer to the source of the damage, the player damage is also increased, meaning the player has to balance damage taken vs damage dealt.

 

A higher emphasis on DPS in aggro calculations (if one player can tank whilst the rest of the team just goes max DPS on the boss, it makes things unnecessarily easy.)

 

Minions/Adds that aren't completely trivial to deal with or completely ignorable. Perhaps have killing the minions be optional, but relate the boss's damage somehow to the number of minions (with a cap to) so that killing the minions will make the kill easier, but slower. E.g. if all minions are dead the boss deals 75% damage for the rest of the fight.

 

If the boss is magic based, have it be more susceptible to normal/ancient spells in different phases so your team requires players on both spellbooks.

 

Just off the top of my head :P

[/hide]

It's important to think of the things that players can use: Abilities, prayers, style switching, movement, designated roles, food, familiars and cannons. Both monsters and players should be able to use all of these - boss mechanics will decide whether the cannon is worth it.

 

Monster health, autoattacks and defence are just ways to keep a constant pressure on the players. For example in pre-EoC Nex you saw that players were using the most tanky gear possible (Pernix, divine, even SoL tanks on ice phase) because the pressure was very high. Post-EoC Nex you see that only the tank really bothers (and helps the team, with Provoke and luring for example), the pressure is lower - also because Nex herself is less tanky, so phases are shorter.

[/hide]

 

So what your are saying is that this boss should combine the abilities use of warband NPCs, the style switching and 1 hit ko of KK, the phases and prayer of Nex, and the healing abilities of current bosses, including in dungeoneering bosses? Basically the best traits of current bosses. Just to be clear. Because if that's what you are saying that sound very tough for players to fight. I'd be scared to try it.


29386_s.gif

"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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If this boss does drop the Lv. 90 Magic weapon(s), then I would rather not see it be even harder to defeat than KK and more tedious to do than obtaining the signets from the ascension bosses.

I would much rather see all three combat styles require equal effort to obtain their Lv. 90 weapons.

 

That being said, this doesn't mean I want them to purposefully dumb down the boss. They could have it actually be hard and instead rework KK (yes) from the ground up in order for it to be on par with Vorago.

Even though the price of Drygores probably wouldn't rise back to be about the same price as the Magic weapon, any future drygore weapons would be as challenging to obtain, which is what matters to me.

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[hide]

[hide]

I'm not a huge boss hunter, so forgive me if I sound rude or ignorant. But could elaborate on what mechanics would make a good boss? I thought KK was good and that RS players were just so resourceful that they figured out how to duo him. Obviously he was not, so I wanna know, what actual mechanics do you have in mind?

 

Use of environmental effects - e.g. since this is set in a cave, falling rocks that kind of thing that the player has to move out of the way of.

 

Use of defensive abilities - have the boss have something like reflect, to make players think more carefully about when they use abilities. (Nex and KK do this a bit, but having the damage reflected would make it more important)

 

Attacks that do more damage to people wearing gear of a certain class.

 

Locational damage - think the QBD super hot breath attack. But you could have a bit of a twist so that whilst this attack is active, if the player stands closer to the source of the damage, the player damage is also increased, meaning the player has to balance damage taken vs damage dealt.

 

A higher emphasis on DPS in aggro calculations (if one player can tank whilst the rest of the team just goes max DPS on the boss, it makes things unnecessarily easy.)

 

Minions/Adds that aren't completely trivial to deal with or completely ignorable. Perhaps have killing the minions be optional, but relate the boss's damage somehow to the number of minions (with a cap to) so that killing the minions will make the kill easier, but slower. E.g. if all minions are dead the boss deals 75% damage for the rest of the fight.

 

If the boss is magic based, have it be more susceptible to normal/ancient spells in different phases so your team requires players on both spellbooks.

 

Just off the top of my head :P

[/hide]

It's important to think of the things that players can use: Abilities, prayers, style switching, movement, designated roles, food, familiars and cannons. Both monsters and players should be able to use all of these - boss mechanics will decide whether the cannon is worth it.

 

Monster health, autoattacks and defence are just ways to keep a constant pressure on the players. For example in pre-EoC Nex you saw that players were using the most tanky gear possible (Pernix, divine, even SoL tanks on ice phase) because the pressure was very high. Post-EoC Nex you see that only the tank really bothers (and helps the team, with Provoke and luring for example), the pressure is lower - also because Nex herself is less tanky, so phases are shorter.

[/hide]

 

So what your are saying is that this boss should combine the abilities use of warband NPCs, the style switching and 1 hit ko of KK, the phases and prayer of Nex, and the healing abilities of current bosses, including in dungeoneering bosses? Basically the best traits of current bosses. Just to be clear. Because if that's what you are saying that sound very tough for players to fight. I'd be scared to try it.

I don't think it would be as difficult as it sounds. Would probably have to bring multiple combat styles and camp a shield all fight.


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Make it a pvp area: that would keep it a constant challenge, as people will betray each other solely for shits and giggles and nobody will ever manage to get the drops.

Fixed that for you.

 

Doubt that actually happens: maybe in random teams, but in the end people would want those riches. And soon people will start blacklisting crashers and soon they won't be able to get into any team anymore. Yyet at the same time pk-clans might activelly go to this dangerous area -note for the boss to be succesfull, it should require pkers to also go through heavy-combat before reaching the point where people are fighting the boss-


First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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i had a concept about a boss that was so large that it occupied three floors, and it took a team on each of the floors to coordinate in friendchat to kill it

 

but people would hate that forever

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