13-Aug-2013 - The Death of Chivalry

[chenw]

And none of them are "the Insane".

[Kaida23]

*That* I would be willing to pay money for. :P

[ArtemisCatal]

And none of them are "the Insane".

 

We don't need that title. We play rs. Most people realize that within 10 minutes of meeting us. I'm probably just speaking for myself though. :?

[Alg]

We don't need that title. We play rs. Most people realize that within 10 minutes of meeting us. I'm

I can confirm that this statement is true.

[HunterDexter]

What is this Ziliyana's gift that we have to use on the Skull they are talking about in the patch notes? It seems to give the Sara dialogue about the Naragi.

[Binary Mage]

What is this Ziliyana's gift that we have to use on the Skull they are talking about in the patch notes? It seems to give the Sara dialogue about the Naragi.

 

It's the Saradomin shirt thingy you get for siding with Zilyana in TWW. Apparently its that choice that unlocks the dialogue options in DoC, which is why its required.

[HunterDexter]

So basically, Saradomin is staying an ass, unless you side with him...

 

But thanks. :)

[Sy_Accursed]

There's 3 shirts after TWW Zilyana's gift, Juana's gift and Azzandra's gift; you can swap between them freely at the High Druid in the shrine.

 

So it's not remotely choice locked, choices in TWW just define which one you get given by default (kinda like the Elite void colours or wizard colour titles)

[HunterDexter]

Yeah, I know, but I just dislike that you need Saradominist stuff or be a Saradominist to get to see a better side of him. From a story point, he's only a good guy if you side with him, if you aren't with him, well, then he stays an ass.

[Sy_Accursed]

But is that not the entire point of his personality thus far?

 

His philosophies centre on the fact for peace we need to obey 1 ultimate leader and that leader should be him and anyone who is outside of that or goes against it is a problem and needs to be dealt with. It'd be decidedly out of character if he was anything but an ass to us when we go against him.

[HunterDexter]

Seeing as we are the World Guardian and he requests our help in this quest and in subsequent quests, I thaught it could have helped him to change the perception anti-Saradominists have of him. As we've seen in this quest, you can try to destroy the wand because you don't trust him with this power. If he told us about his regret and so on, we could have considered to give him the wand freely. It would make his life much easier really. :P

[Sy_Accursed]

True, but again it'd be out of character. He's been shown to be rather arrogant I am right do what I say mentality and only with hindsight regret his actions. It would be very out of character for him in my book to try and reasons with us if we say no to him; he'd get offended at the insult and take action - kinda like how he started smushing Naragi after they didn't wanna worship him.

 

Nothing about him thus far really says diplomat or great reasoner it all says I tell you to do if you don't do ima kick your butt.

[Ts_Stormrage]

And in that respect, he's like almost all of them gods...

[Alg]

They're no more power-hungry than the players are. Probably less, in some cases.

[Sy_Accursed]

We don't really have enough about anyone other than Saradomin to make sweeping generalisations about what they are or are not like imo.

 

I mean the only first hand experience we have is of Saradomin.

[V O R K]

Or the missionary from POP.

 

Whom is an ass.

[Saradomin_Mage]

The Missionary begins his career with a reputation for violence, and continues that trend as he explores other frontiers, only to have a change of heart later when he reflects on his actions. That parallel?

[Quyneax]

We don't really have enough about anyone other than Saradomin to make sweeping generalisations about what they are or are not like imo.

 

I mean the only first hand experience we have is of Saradomin.

Zamorak is definitely after power, it's explicitly part of his philosophy to go for greater personal power.

 

Zaros had a great deal of power ruling his empire pre-God Wars, and as god of Control he will likely want to have control, which is a form of power. I don't see him settling for less power, only for less visible power.

 

Anyone after the Stone of Jas is also after power, although it's possible that some gods only want it to prevent it from being used.

 

Bandos/Sliske seem to like playing games, from the way Bandos sets up tribes against one another, and the way Sliske collects wights.

 

Seren and Armadyl are not after power, I think, but they might need to become more powerful to attain their goals, like Guthix had to gain great power to shield Gielinor from the other gods (they wouldn't have listened to Tumeken, right?).

 

The Godless probably will require some power source in order to banish the gods, unless they can convince the gods to leave, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[Sy_Accursed]

We don't really have enough about anyone other than Saradomin to make sweeping generalisations about what they are or are not like imo.

 

I mean the only first hand experience we have is of Saradomin.

Zamorak is definitely after power, it's explicitly part of his philosophy to go for greater personal power.

 

Zaros had a great deal of power ruling his empire pre-God Wars, and as god of Control he will likely want to have control, which is a form of power. I don't see him settling for less power, only for less visible power.

 

Anyone after the Stone of Jas is also after power, although it's possible that some gods only want it to prevent it from being used.

 

Bandos/Sliske seem to like playing games, from the way Bandos sets up tribes against one another, and the way Sliske collects wights.

 

Seren and Armadyl are not after power, I think, but they might need to become more powerful to attain their goals, like Guthix had to gain great power to shield Gielinor from the other gods (they wouldn't have listened to Tumeken, right?).

 

The Godless probably will require some power source in order to banish the gods, unless they can convince the gods to leave, but I doubt that's going to happen.

 

Zamorak is about personal growth through chaos, this is not quite the same thing as being after just out and out power.

 

Zaros current philosophy is about staying out of the picture and just being a guiding hand from the shadows, doesn't really sound like a big power play is coming.

 

True about the Stone of Jas but at this point has ANYONE actually expressed any interest in it? Not really.

 

But anyway these are all more about the philosophies and what gods may or may not do, that don't really hold any sway over the fact we have not had one to one face time with them and as such only have what their followers and enemies tell us to go off and not them the actual person. I mean Sara's followers paint a very different picture to what he himself comes across as do they not? So whose to say the picture we have of any other god is at all accurate at this point?

[Quyneax]

Growth also means you become more powerful. Look at Moia.

Being a guiding hand = power play. Zaros may be subtle, but if he can achieve what he wants, he still has power.

 

Obviously yes, we have no first-hand experience in-game with most of the gods, but we don't have enough experience with any NPC to really get a judge of character. Instead, we rely on typical characters to provide a sort of blueprint, and we extrapolate from the information we have, and we cross-reference second and third-hand sources, like Moia's account of Zamorak. I still think that list is a pretty accurate one, and that Saradomin/Zaros/Zamorak are definitely after (political/magical) power, with the other gods viewing it more as a means to an end.

[Alg]

Obviously yes, we have no first-hand experience in-game with most of the gods, but we don't have enough experience with any NPC to really get a judge of character. Instead, we rely on typical characters to provide a sort of blueprint, and we extrapolate from the information we have, and we cross-reference second and third-hand sources, like Moia's account of Zamorak. I still think that list is a pretty accurate one, and that Saradomin/Zaros/Zamorak are definitely after (political/magical) power, with the other gods viewing it more as a means to an end.

Even then, those three seem to genuinely believe that their way will benefit mortals as well, if that isn't at least part of their motive (Zamorak as a way of strengthening them, Zaros and Saradomin as a way to establish order and/or stability, though the latter wants to rule openly and the former wants to be fate). If that's the case, all of them see power as a means to an end.

[strilmus]

they all claim that they want to end the wars so that there isn't any bloodshed, but it seems like they're the ones who instigate these things in the first place which result in the bloodshed

 

except for bandos, who seems to sustain himself purely based on bloodshed

[chenw]

And Seren (I think), her emissary gave me the opinion that she has the "screw everyone else, we are hiding" mentality.

[Quyneax]

Obviously yes, we have no first-hand experience in-game with most of the gods, but we don't have enough experience with any NPC to really get a judge of character. Instead, we rely on typical characters to provide a sort of blueprint, and we extrapolate from the information we have, and we cross-reference second and third-hand sources, like Moia's account of Zamorak. I still think that list is a pretty accurate one, and that Saradomin/Zaros/Zamorak are definitely after (political/magical) power, with the other gods viewing it more as a means to an end.

Even then, those three seem to genuinely believe that their way will benefit mortals as well, if that isn't at least part of their motive (Zamorak as a way of strengthening them, Zaros and Saradomin as a way to establish order and/or stability, though the latter wants to rule openly and the former wants to be fate). If that's the case, all of them see power as a means to an end.

I think it's pretty much a given that power is a means to an end. It's about whether it is only that, or also a goal in itself.

 

Plus that, in the case of the three most power-hungry gods, I'm not sure what was there first: lust for power or lust for helping mortals.

[Yoko Kurama]

A fun little quest, and quite enjoyable. I liked the idea of scaling the combat. I am still waiting for a huge quest though, that's the only thing that will quench my blood-lust for adventure. Saradomin tried to show some regret, but I still think he is an unscrupulous scumbag. Though, Zammy is a bigger scumbag.